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Cogburn
06-11-2010, 08:48 PM
Maybe it is all about to go down, after all.


Turkey is calling for a jihad against Israel
Erdogan's bellicose support for the flotilla has sacrificed Israeli relations in the service of retrograde east-facing aspirations

Support for Turkey is at an all-time high in the Arab world. The last time Turkish flags were carried through the streets of Middle Eastern capitals was during the first world war, as people took to the streets in continued support for the Ottoman sultan-caliph against the western entente powers. The sultan-caliph had proclaimed a jihad. Thanks to Turkish government support of a blockade-running mission led by a group of Hamas sympathisers, they are flying once again. No ruling Arab leader is as popular as the Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, whose discourse amounts to calls for a jihad against Israel.

Israel's relations with Ankara – military, economic, and tourist (Israelis once flocked to Turkey) – have been sacrificed on the altar of Turkey's retrograde aspiration to lead the Islamic world and establish itself along with Iran as an alternative to American power. Turkey is once again turning eastwards.

The Erdogan government's outrageous provocation of Israel could have been prevented. Israel begged the Turkish government not to let the Mava Marmaris depart with its meagre cargo of humanitarian aid (meagre compared to the aid Israel facilitates every day) and Islamist extremists armed to the teeth with clubs, wrist rockets that fire deadly projectiles, switchblades and military-style night vision equipment.

The provocation is all the more shameful since the Turkish government has proclaimed that all passengers were checked thoroughly. Is this the behaviour of a friendly country? Of the six ships, only the Turkish ship resisted violently; all the others were boarded without incident.

But the gall of Erdogan and his foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu knows no bounds. Erdogan's bellicose exhortations were beyond belief. "The heart of humanity has taken one of her heaviest wounds in history," he cried. "Bloody massacre" … "spilling the blood of innocent humans" … "in the history of humanity this has been recorded as a major shame" … "a despicably cowardly and vicious act." Turkey, unlike Israel, bellowed Erdogan, is not an "adolescent, rootless state". "As precious as Turkey's partnership is, so harsh will be her hostility." He concluded, no less: "Today is a turning point in history … Nothing will ever be the same again."

While Erdogan was engaged in war-mongering, Davutoglu was urging the west to drop sanctions against Iran. He next expressed his "disappointment" that the US had not condemned the Israeli raid, which he termed "murder conducted by a state". (In contrast, the sinking of a South Korean ship in May by North Korea, killing 46 sailors, was of "great concern" to the Turkish foreign ministry.)

It is difficult to imagine that Turkey would be engaging in this kind of behaviour were the US demonstrating world leadership and not abandoning the field to the likes of Erdogan. While the administration works to assure Israel's security with co-operation on missile defence, it has yet emboldened Israel's enemies by publicly pressuring Jerusalem at every turn, not taking decisive action against Iran, and caving to Egypt by singling out Israel – to the exclusion of Iran – at the nuclear non-proliferation treaty review conference last month. Post-conference palliatives offered up by US officials did little to ameliorate the impression in the region that the US was hanging Israel out to dry. Turkey was simply bandwagoning.

Israel will now be closely examining its relationship with Turkey. Turkish Jews are afraid to leave their homes. Israel has withdrawn the families of its diplomats out of fear for their safety. Israel has excellent relations with the armed forces of Turkey, but they have had their wings clipped by the massive assault against them in the murky episode known as Ergenekon, in which several military officers and others are accused of trying to overthrow Erdogan's party.

Turkey's over-the-top behaviour has Israelis scratching their heads. How would Ankara react, for instance, if Israeli "humanitarian organisations" decided to run aid missions to the terrorist PKK, the Kurdish separatist group in Turkey? Do the Turks really want an Iranian port on the Mediterranean in Gaza? And for that matter, do the western countries, which have so roundly castigated Israel?

There may be an international commission of inquiry into the incident. An unbiased commission must certainly also examine the possible complicity of the Turkish authorities in arming the militants.

There is still hope for Turkey. While old-style Kemalism probably needs to be revamped, the person to do it just might be Kemal Kilicdaroglu, the newly elected head of the Republican People's party (CHP). As the Washington Institute's Soner Cagaptay notes in the Jerusalem Post, he could bring about a "New Kemalism – Kemalism 2.0 – [which] would be updated and recast to preserve the liberal aspects of a Kemalist polity, while jettisoning authoritarianism and anachronistic aspects of traditional Kemalism."

Spurned by the EU, where it has applied for membership and ruled by an Islamist party with delusions of grandeur, Turkey is determined to lead the Muslim world once more and is promoting a clash of civilisations in order to compete strategically with the US. Turkey is no longer a friend, but not yet an enemy of the US. It is a "frenemy," writes Steven Cook of the Council on Foreign Relations. Let's hope that Ankara's Islamist rulers pull back from the brink represented by its risky and irresponsible policies.

guy
06-11-2010, 08:49 PM
Poor Turkey...nice knowing ya.

Cogburn
06-11-2010, 08:50 PM
Poor Turkey...nice knowing ya.

Turkey is in the Nuclear Club.

Guess who gave them the nukes?

We did.

Snow Crash
06-11-2010, 08:51 PM
Turkey is in the Nuclear Club.

Guess who gave them the nukes?

We did.

Do you have a source for that? I'd be quite interested in scoping that.

guy
06-11-2010, 08:53 PM
Turkey is in the Nuclear Club.

Guess who gave them the nukes?

We did.

List of countries or states with nukes..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

US
Russia
UK
France
China
India
Pakistan
North Korea
Israel

Cogburn
06-11-2010, 08:58 PM
Do you have a source for that? I'd be quite interested in scoping that.


List of countries or states with nukes..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

US
Russia
UK
France
China
India
Pakistan
North Korea
Israel

Published by the NDRC in 2005. Enjoy. (http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/euro/euro.pdf)
http://i46.tinypic.com/30ksrwz.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/1z2exwg.jpg

Wikipedia is not knowledge.

guy
06-11-2010, 09:03 PM
Every one of those weapons are for the common usage of the US and Turkey...they cannot enable those weapons without the ok of the US

guy
06-11-2010, 09:05 PM
Today, Turkey hosts an estimated 90 B61 gravity bombs at Incirlik Air Base. Fifty of these bombs are reportedly (http://nukestrat.com/pubs/EuroBombs.pdf) assigned for delivery by U.S. pilots, and forty are assigned for delivery by the Turkish Air Force. However, no permanent nuclear-capable U.S. fighter wing is based at Incirlik, and the Turkish Air Force is reportedly (http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/bueros/stockholm/06123.pdf) not certified for NATO nuclear missions, meaning nuclear-capable F-16s from other U.S. bases would need to be brought in if Turkey's bombs were ever needed.

http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/features/the-status-of-us-nuclear-weapons-turkey

which means without the US approval those weapons in Turkey are nothing more than paperweights.

Cogburn
06-11-2010, 09:24 PM
Every one of those weapons are for the common usage of the US and Turkey...they cannot enable those weapons without the ok of the US


http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/features/the-status-of-us-nuclear-weapons-turkey

which means without the US approval those weapons in Turkey are nothing more than paperweights.

40 nukes under Turkey's direct military "care," and that which puts them beyond use is a piece of paper. A "nuclear capable" aircraft for deployment is deceptive for the purposes of policy: there's no technology required for the deployment of a B61 device other than an Airbus A300. It's designed for supersonic flight but can contain either a delayed action or basic altitude fuse.

Not to mention that in the advent of war between Turkey and Israel, I don't think it likely that the United States is going to come down too hard on a country where they have nuclear weapons parked. Call me crazy.

guy
06-11-2010, 09:31 PM
40 nukes under Turkey's direct military "care," and that which puts them beyond use is a piece of paper. A "nuclear capable" aircraft for deployment is deceptive for the purposes of policy: there's no technology required for the deployment of a B61 device other than an Airbus A300. It's designed for supersonic flight but can contain either a delayed action or basic altitude fuse.

Not to mention that in the advent of war between Turkey and Israel, I don't think it likely that the United States is going to come down too hard on a country where they have nuclear weapons parked. Call me crazy.

Then I'll call you crazy. If you think Turkey causes a hitch in the step of Israel then you need to put down the pipe. Turkey-Israel, whom do you honestly think the US is going to side with. Even if Turkey managed to enable one of the devices...how many to counter does Israel possess? Neither you, nor I , or anyone outside of a select few could answer that question, but rest assured that Israel's Nuke arsenal far exceeds that of all Middle East countries combined. And there is no way, unless something major and radical occurs, that the US is going to side with Turkey. And if we do not the nukes on Turkish soil may as well be yard decorations.

Cogburn
06-11-2010, 09:39 PM
Then I'll call you crazy. If you think Turkey causes a hitch in the step of Israel then you need to put down the pipe. Turkey-Israel, whom do you honestly think the US is going to side with. Even if Turkey managed to enable one of the devices...how many to counter does Israel possess? Neither you, nor I , or anyone outside of a select few could answer that question, but rest assured that Israel's Nuke arsenal far exceeds that of all Middle East countries combined. And there is no way, unless something major and radical occurs, that the US is going to side with Turkey. And if we do not the nukes on Turkish soil may as well be yard decorations.

Except you have nothing at all with which to back up your assertions.

You might as well suggest that Iran has alien technology they are going to use to wipe out only the Zionists and leave everyone else alive.

pack3tg0st
06-11-2010, 09:41 PM
The U.S. Will not side with Turkey...

Turkey refused to renew an agreement allowing our troops to stay in their country...

they pretty much said GTFO...

I'm thinking relations with Turkey are more strained than the MSM shows...

guy
06-11-2010, 09:42 PM
Except you have nothing at all with which to back up your assertions.

You might as well suggest that Iran has alien technology they are going to use to wipe out only the Zionists and leave everyone else alive.

noone has the ability to confirm or deny my assertions, as Israel has never confirmed the existence of it's Nukes. I think that is a great stance, BTW, as it allows Israel to intimidate it's neighbors.

Snow Crash
06-11-2010, 09:43 PM
Except you have nothing at all with which to back up your assertions.

You might as well suggest that Iran has alien technology they are going to use to wipe out only the Zionists and leave everyone else alive.

You mean they dont? DAMN YOU, JANE'S!

guy
06-11-2010, 09:45 PM
The U.S. Will not side with Turkey...

Turkey refused to renew an agreement allowing our troops to stay in their country...

they pretty much said GTFO...

I'm thinking relations with Turkey are more strained than the MSM shows...

I read something to that effect recently...which leads me to believe that Turkey is acting up to gain attention.

Snow Crash
06-11-2010, 09:47 PM
The U.S. Will not side with Turkey...

Turkey refused to renew an agreement allowing our troops to stay in their country...

they pretty much said GTFO...

I'm thinking relations with Turkey are more strained than the MSM shows...

TBH I am glad they did. People need to stand up to the Empire. They've been getting away with murder for too long.

pack3tg0st
06-11-2010, 09:47 PM
I read something to that effect recently...which leads me to believe that Turkey is acting up to gain attention.

yah, I actually had orders to be stationed in Turkey back in 2003... but they were canceled because the future of the military installations was in question...

Instead, I got orders to Alaska, with follow up orders to Cheyenne Mountain.

Besides.. after Iraq was invaded by the conquistadors, Operation Northern Watch wasn't deemed mission critical anymore, and kind of dissolved...

(Northern Watch was in Turkey, watching the Northern borders of Iraq.)

pack3tg0st
06-11-2010, 09:50 PM
TBH I am glad they did. People need to stand up to the Empire. They've been getting away with murder for too long.

All countries do that...

But people don't need to stand up to the empire... they need to get the fuck over here and free the serfs.

Our government has grown so large it would actually do absolutely anything to preserve itself...

Snow Crash
06-11-2010, 09:55 PM
All countries do that...

But people don't need to stand up to the empire... they need to get the fuck over here and free the serfs.

Our government has grown so large it would actually do absolutely anything to preserve itself...

I think the only people capable of toppling the empire are the serfs. An invading force would just cause all the wrong reactions. And when I say the empire, I mean the Euro-American Empire.

pack3tg0st
06-11-2010, 10:47 PM
aw shit... then we might have a problem Snow...

The serfs over here are fuckin' retarded...

They aren't even conscious of their serfdom.

Snow Crash
06-11-2010, 10:51 PM
aw shit... then we might have a problem Snow...

The serfs over here are fuckin' retarded...

They aren't even conscious of their serfdom.

Grim eh? Same in my neck of the woods. Mind you, I always say, there's often good friends to be had where you are told by Them that you have only enemies...