Middle East for dummies

[Ethereal_Resonance]

Can i gain some insight into members explanations of the Israel/Palestine conflict please?

Brevity and simplicity is preferred, so i'll begin...

1. It's not the Jews that are bad, but the zionist movement
2. Theodor Herzl started the zionist movement after seeing a jew accused of spying in France (circa1900). He was a failed playwright and scientist, so sought fame by touting an autonomous state for Jews.
3. Arabs and Jews co-existed happily until their land was acquired by absentee landlords, where the zionists wanted to purge arabs from their homeland.
4. Churchill said this about Palestine "I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill#Early_career_years)"
5. UK & USA gave land to the Jews without consent and the UN granted the state of Israel in 1948, which goes against the UN mandate to uphold the right of all peoples to self-determination.
6. Israel proclaims the land is their right from the Kingdom of David & Solomon (father & son), a tenuous rule that only lasted ~70 years, many, many moons ago. Palestine has been Arabic for ~1300 years!
7. The US gives Israel billions every year, in return they buy armaments...quid pro quo, ad infinitum.

So what's the true agenda and why do they get away with murder where there's disproportionate warfare with rockets fired from pringles tubes versus state of the art military hardware and white phosphor?

Addendum: I sincerely look forward to your opinions and i apologise for this troll thread that doesn't discuss IEF or pack's piss 'n moan threads about his best buddy BE.

KISS

[Pam]

I am a dummy on this subject. Conflict is a hard thing for me to wrap my mind around.

Was the land given to them out of guilt to begin with?

Do we and our children have to pay for our bad decisions for generations?

When does it stop?

[egg]

I am a dummy on this subject. Conflict is a hard thing for me to wrap my mind around.

Was the land given to them out of guilt to begin with?

Do we and our children have to pay for our bad decisions for generations?

When does it stop?

This is what I've come to think. The whys no longer matter. This will not stop until Israel is destroyed. I say Israel because, even if they wiped out all of the Palestinians, the Arab world would retaliate en masse.
It will never end... unless humanity has some positive evolutionary jump....
I'm not holding my breath.

[MissSilver]

6. Israel proclaims the land is their right from the Kingdom of David & Solomon (father & son), a tenuous rule that only lasted ~70 years, many, many moons ago. Palestine has been Arabic for ~1300 years!


When they are done wiping out the palestinians and rules all over the land, I doubt that they will want to be content with their borders. Some fuckheads will want to colonize part of Lebanon and Syria claiming that it is theirs by right.

This is when the shit will hit the fan.

[Snow Crash]

So what's the true agenda and why do they get away with murder where there's disproportionate warfare with rockets fired from pringles tubes versus state of the art military hardware and white phosphor?

I see Israel as an experiment by religious fundementalists who want to create a Zionist version of a caliphate. This has resulted in a militant state that sees non believers as less than human, and not worthy of the respect they themselves wish to be treated with. Due to the support given by lobbies placed close to the heart of the US and UK, they are pretty much guaranteed to get away with doing whatever they please. This lack of accountability has gone to their heads in a big way.

It used to be the case that any dissenting voices had the holocaust/anti semite cards played against them and it would be enough to shut them up. Nowdays, people are less likely to be frightened off by that, so nowdays its the whole 'terrorism' excuse.

I'll make it real simple for those who don't quite understand: If you don't want people shooting at you, GET THE FUCK OFF THEIR LAND AND FUCK OFF BACK TO EUROPE OR THE US. Put yourself in their shoes. If someone rolled into YOUR neighbourhood and started herding people into ghettos, bulldozing their homes, shelling, firing missles into houses, dropping chemical weapons on the people, what the fuck would you do? Would you say "oh that's fine, their god said it was ok for them to try and wipe us out. Have at it, boys!"

There is no excuse for using chemical weapons and starvation on a people. There is no excuse for murdering aid workers and UN personnel. There is no excuse for killing over a thousand people in retalliation for what effectively amounts to expensive fireworks being fired at random into Israeli territory. But then again, I see Israel as a country that would be actively running concentration camps if they could do so without blowing the holocaust excuse out of the water completely. They don't want peace, as is staggeringly evident of their constant undermining of peace talks by carrying out provocative operations while said talks are underway, by doing one thing and saying the other.

I don't see Hezbollah as a terrorist outfit. They are a militia whose mission it is to drive the Israelis from Lebanese soil. The fact they oppose the golden child of the middle east means they are labelled as terrorists.

Same with the PLO/Fatah/Hamas. If someone came into your home, kicked you out on the street, then kicked the fuck out of you every time you reminded them you existed on their doorstep, what would you do?

As a side note, I would like to highlight the West's shocking ignorance over the whole suicide bomber phenomenon that the Zionist media loves to harp on about. What would you do if everything you had, including your loved ones, had been taken from you? And I don't just mean, they upped and vanished one day, I mean, you held your dead child in your arms, the smell of their burning flesh filling your nose, and as you stagger away, you are aware that the wife and the other kids wont be making it out in anywhere near as good a state as the one in your arms. You now have nothing to live for. I am not condoning suicide bombing, as I think it is strategically disasterous and utterly counterproductive. But you cannot ignore the factors in what makes people want to give up their lives to fight oppresion. To do so is the pinnacle of folly.

If you want to see things from a perspective of the West, watch Red Dawn. The Wolverines were labelled as terrorists for defending American soil from the Soviet invaders. Imagine the Soviets began telling the world that they owned America before the Americans came.

[Snow Crash]

6. Israel proclaims the land is their right from the Kingdom of David & Solomon (father & son), a tenuous rule that only lasted ~70 years, many, many moons ago. Palestine has been Arabic for ~1300 years!


When they are done wiping out the palestinians and rules all over the land, I doubt that they will want to be content with their borders. Some fuckheads will want to colonize part of Lebanon and Syria claiming that it is theirs by right.

This is when the shit will hit the fan.

They already have done that.

[Snow Crash]

This is what I've come to think. The whys no longer matter. This will not stop until Israel is destroyed. I say Israel because, even if they wiped out all of the Palestinians, the Arab world would retaliate en masse.
It will never end... unless humanity has some positive evolutionary jump....
I'm not holding my breath.

I believe only the children of Israel can stop it in a positive manner.

[anarch]

BUMP TREK Seeking the rational on a night of stupidity. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET THEIR BE INTELLECTUAL POSTINGS AGAIN!!!!

[Snow Crash]

Damn this thread died awfully fast...

[Chorlton]

Just a small correction to the OP
You stated:
5. UK & USA gave land to the Jews without consent and the UN granted the state of Israel in 1948, which goes against the UN mandate to uphold the right of all peoples to self-determination.

The UK and US gave them nothing. They took the land. OK there was little resistance but the Israeli's took it.

One would consider that the Israeli's, being a former displaced peoples would understand the demands of the Palestinians and at the very least, share the land with them. But both sides are ruled by Militants, Both sides refuse to hold out the hand of peace and so it continues.
However, the support for Israel's stand is sinking lower than a Dachsund's balls.
If only the Palestinians in Gaza would stop lobbing rockets into Israel they would get a lot more support.