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mojo
03-03-2010, 09:37 PM
The Tuatha De Danaan, arrived in Eire and are thought to be one of the original inhabitants along with the Firbolg and the Fomorians, before being defeated by the invading Milesians.

Form the Irish meaning Children of the Goddess Danu, Tuatha de Danann is probably the most important race of færies (http://amkon.net/Faerie.htm). The had a monarchical society, and they were a magical race. The Tuatha de Danann flew into Ireland with their four magical possessions: The Lia Fail (stone of destiny), the spear of their warrior god Lug, the sword of Nuadu, and the inexhaustible cauldron of the god good the Dagda. They banished the Firbolg (http://amkon.net/Firbolgs.htm) and defeated the demonic Fomorians (http://amkon.net/Fomorian.htm). Many centuries later they were defeated and driven to their otherworldly kingdom, Tir nan Og by the Milesians. There in Tir nan Og, they remain ageless and beautiful, still practicing magic. Many think that all færies are descended from the race of Tuatha de Danann.


Tuatha de Danann - (People of the goddess Danu) This is the tribe of Irish deities, founded by Danu (http://amkon.net/l%20danu). Originating from the 'islands in the west', the gods traveled on a cloud to Ireland, which they then settled. Their use of magic had reached a level of perfection. Upon arriving in Ireland, they defeated the Firbolg (http://amkon.net/l%20firbolg). They later conquered the Fomorians (http://amkon.net/l%20fomorians) as well. Rather than demolishing the Fomorians, as they did the Firbolg, they bestowed upon them the province of Connacht. When the Milesians (http://amkon.net/l%20milesians) came to Ireland, they drove the Irish gods into the underworld. They apparently still dwell there, now as invisible beings. They will sometimes aid mortals, armed with pure white shields, and lances made of blue flame.

The Milesians mentioned here are not the ancient Greek Milesians but refers to the descendants of Mil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milesians_(Irish)) who are thought to have come from Spain and invaded Britain and defeated the Tuatha de Danann.

Various sources for the belief that the Milesians were from Spain and possibly before that Scythians who spent time in Egypt.

The Lebor Gabála (http://amkon.net/wiki/Lebor_Gab%C3%A1la_%C3%89renn) (Book of Invasions - probably first written in the second half of the 11th century (http://amkon.net/wiki/11th_century) AD) describes the origin of the Gaelic (http://amkon.net/wiki/Gaels) people. Under the leadership of Galamh or Golam (Míl Espáine, the soldier of Hispania (http://amkon.net/wiki/Hispania) - a descendant of Japheth (http://amkon.net/wiki/Japheth), one of Noah (http://amkon.net/wiki/Noah)'s three sons), they came out of ancient Scythia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Scythia) (southern Russia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Russia) - a land that had obtained sovereignty shortly after the Deluge (http://amkon.net/wiki/Deluge_%28mythology%29)) to live for a while in Egypt (http://amkon.net/wiki/Egypt). According to Edmund Campion writing in 1571 (http://amkon.net/wiki/1571), at the court of King Amenophis (http://amkon.net/wiki/Amenophis) of Egypt, Galamh married the king's daughter, Scota (http://amkon.net/wiki/Scota); when the pharaoh (http://amkon.net/wiki/Pharaoh) had drowned in the Red Sea (http://amkon.net/wiki/Red_Sea), Galamh and his people wandered for many years before conquering Hispania (Iberia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Iberian_peninsula), or modern Portugal (http://amkon.net/wiki/Portugal) and Spain (http://amkon.net/wiki/Spain)) and establishing the city of Brigantia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Brigantia_%28city%29).

Grains of truth?
Article (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1064152004)

Historians believed that the Celts, who were originally from the Alpine regions of central Europe, invaded the Atlantic islands in a massive migration 2,500 years ago. But Dr Bradley said that it was possible migrants moved from the Iberian peninsula as far back as 6,000 years ago and up until 3,000 years ago.
The study, using DNA samples from people living in Celtic nations and other parts of Europe, found
there are also close links between Scotland and Ireland dating back much further than the Plantations of the 1600s, when many Scots moved to northern Ireland in search of fertile farming land.

source (http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=1393742006)

A MAJOR genetic study of the population of Britain appears to have put an end to the idea of the "Celtic fringe" of Scotland, Ireland and Wales.
Instead, a research team at Oxford University has found the majority of Britons are Celts descended from Spanish tribes who began arriving about 7,000 years ago.

A possible reason for differing DNA is that various ethnic groups have populated that region over thousands of years. It is now thought that Spanish ancestry began before the celts in Ireland between 6000 and 7000 years ago.

source (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1064152004/)

Historians have long believed the British Isles were invaded by Iron Age Celts from central Europe in about 500 BC. But geneticists at Dublin’s Trinity College now claim the Scots and Irish have as much, if not more, in common with the people of north-western Spain.

source (http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=1393742006)

Prof Sykes divided the population into several groups or clans: Oisin for the Celts; Wodan for Anglo-Saxons and Danish Vikings; Sigurd for Norse Vikings; Eshu for people who share genetic links with people such as the Berbers of North Africa; and Re for a farming people who spread to Europe from the Middle East.
The study linked the male Y-chromosome to the birthplace of paternal grandfathers to try to establish a historic distribution pattern. Prof Sykes, a member of the Oisin clan, said the Celts had remained predominant in Britain despite waves of further migration.

wikipedia source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milesians_(Irish))

According to Edmund Campion writing in 1571 (http://amkon.net/wiki/1571), at the court of King Amenophis (http://amkon.net/wiki/Amenophis) of Egypt, Galamh married the king's daughter, Scota (http://amkon.net/wiki/Scota); when the pharaoh (http://amkon.net/wiki/Pharaoh) had drowned in the Red Sea (http://amkon.net/wiki/Red_Sea), Galamh and his people wandered for many years before conquering Hispania (Iberia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Iberian_peninsula), or modern Portugal (http://amkon.net/wiki/Portugal) and Spain (http://amkon.net/wiki/Spain)) and establishing the city of Brigantia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Brigantia_%28city%29).
It had been prophesied that Galamh's descendants would rule Ireland, but he himself never reached its shores, dying in Gallaecia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Gallaecia) (modern Galicia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Galicia_%28Spain%29) and northern (http://amkon.net/wiki/Norte%2C_Portugal)Portugal (http://amkon.net/wiki/Portugal)) in the north-west of the Iberian Peninsula (http://amkon.net/wiki/Iberian_Peninsula). One day, on looking out from the tower of Breogán, his uncle ĺth saw the island of Ireland (Hibernia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Hibernia)) across the sea and decided to sail there with Scota: on arriving in Ireland he met the country's three kings - men of the Tuatha Dé Danann (http://amkon.net/wiki/Tuatha_D%C3%A9_Danann) - and was killed by them. Out of vengeance, eight sons of Galamh (ie. sons of the Míl Espáine, thus Milesians) and nine brothers of Íth set out from their territory (said to have been around modern Bayonne (http://amkon.net/wiki/Bayonne) in the Basque Country (http://amkon.net/wiki/Northern_Basque_Country)) and invaded Ireland.1

What is exciting about this thought that the Milesians arrived sometime between 6000 and 3000BC is that would mean the Tuatha De Danaan arrived even earlier than that. Lets forget the flying ships for a moment and understand the importance of this.

How do we account for them arriving on ships capable of carrying a great number of people and provisions long before modern historians would have us believe anyone was capable of advanced open sea sailing or navigation.

source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebor_Gab%C3%A1la_%C3%89renn) Interesting read with excerpts and links to Lebor Gabála Érenn ( The Book of the Taking of Ireland).

Numerous fragments of Irish pseudohistory are scattered throughout the seventh and eighth centuries, but the earliest extant account is to be found in the Historia Brittonum or "History of the Britons," written by the Welsh priest Nennius (http://amkon.net/wiki/Nennius) in 829-830. Nennius gives two separate accounts of early Irish history. The first consists of a series of successive colonisations from Iberia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Iberian_peninsula) (Hispania (http://amkon.net/wiki/Hispania), modern Portugal (http://amkon.net/wiki/Portugal) and Spain (http://amkon.net/wiki/Spain)) by the pre-Gaelic races of Ireland, all of which found their way into LGE. The second recounts the origins of the Gael themselves, and tells how they in turn came to be the masters of the country and the ancestors of all the Irish.

source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuatha_D%C3%A9_Danann)

The Tuatha Dé were descended from Nemed (http://amkon.net/wiki/Nemed), leader of a previous wave of inhabitants of Ireland. They came from four northern cities, Falias, Gorias, Murias and Finias, where they acquired their occult skills and attributes. They arrived in Ireland, on or about May 1 (http://amkon.net/wiki/May_1) (the date of the festival of Beltaine (http://amkon.net/wiki/Beltaine)), on dark clouds, although later versions rationalise this by saying they burned their ships to prevent retreat, and the "clouds" were the smoke produced.

source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemed)

In Irish mythology (http://amkon.net/wiki/Irish_mythology), Nemed ("holy" or "privileged") son of Agnoman (http://amkon.net/wiki/Agnoman) of Scythia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Scythia) was the leader of the third group of inhabitants of Ireland (http://amkon.net/wiki/Ireland). They arrived in 2350 BC (http://amkon.net/wiki/24th_century_BC) according to the chronology of the Annals of the Four Masters (http://amkon.net/wiki/Annals_of_the_Four_Masters), 1731 BC (http://amkon.net/wiki/18th_century_BC) according to Seathrún Céitinn (http://amkon.net/wiki/Seathr%C3%BAn_C%C3%A9itinn)'s chronology.

source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthol%C3%B3n)

In Irish mythology (http://amkon.net/wiki/Irish_mythology) Partholón was the leader of the second group of people to settle in Ireland (http://amkon.net/wiki/Ireland), the first to arrive after the biblical Flood (http://amkon.net/wiki/Deluge_%28mythology%29). They arrived in 2680 BC according to the chronology of the Annals of the Four Masters (http://amkon.net/wiki/Annals_of_the_Four_Masters), 2061 BC according to Seathrún Céitinn (http://amkon.net/wiki/Seathr%C3%BAn_C%C3%A9itinn)'s chronology, and the time of Abraham (http://amkon.net/wiki/Abraham) according to Irish synchronic historians.

source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessair)

In Irish mythology (http://amkon.net/wiki/Irish_mythology), Cessair (or Ceasair) was the leader of the first inhabitants of Ireland (http://amkon.net/wiki/Ireland) before the Biblical (http://amkon.net/wiki/Bible)Flood (http://amkon.net/wiki/Deluge_%28mythology%29), in what may be a Christianisation (http://amkon.net/wiki/Christianisation) of a legend that pre-dates the conversion, but may alternatively be the product of post-conversion pseudohistory (http://amkon.net/wiki/Pseudohistory).

If the ancient Milesians that defeated the Tuatha De Danaan were originally Scythian's, then who were the Tuatha de Danaan and where did they come from. Even taking into account the Scythians existed around 1000BC that would put the arrival of the Tuatha at least around 2000 - 1500BC, still quite a technological feat to move a large amount of people across open water.

Did they possess the technology and knowhow to cross open seas, are the "magical" objects they bought with them really just advanced technology that seemed magical?

Were the Tuatha Atlantean refugee's looking for a new home?

Some information on the races inhabiting Eire when the Tuatha arrived.

Firbolg - These were the early inhabitants, or perhaps gods, of Ireland. They conquered Ireland by defeating the Fomorians (http://amkon.net/l%20fomorians), after two other races had failed. Their name means 'Men of the Bags.'


Fomorians - These are demonic giants who occupied Ireland at one time. They withstood invasions by both the Partholons and the Nemeds, only to fall to the Firbolgs (http://amkon.net/l%20firbolg). The Firbolgs subdued them and they lived in peace together. Eventually, the Tuatha de Danann (http://amkon.net/l%20tuatha) arrived in Ireland and eliminated the Firbolgs. The Fomorians, however, were allowed to keep the province of Connacht. The Fomorian king is Balor (http://amkon.net/l%20balor). Some others are Bres (http://amkon.net/l%20bres), Eriu (http://amkon.net/l%20eriu), and Tethra (http://amkon.net/l%20tethra). These giants are sometimes associated in myth with natural powers that hinder mankind, such as winter, fog, and storms.


Some information on Scythians.

http://history-world.org/scythians.htm

The Scythians were feared and admired for their prowess in war and, in particular, for their horsemanship. They were among the earliest people to master the art of riding, and their mobility astonished their neighbors. The migration of the Scythians from Asia eventually brought them into the territory of the Cimmerians, who had traditionally controlled the Caucasus and the plains north of the Black Sea. In a war that lasted 30 years, the Scythians destroyed the Cimmerians and set themselves up as rulers of an empire stretching from west Persia through Syria and Judaea to the borders of Egypt. The Medes, who ruled Persia, attacked them and drove them out of Anatolia, leaving them finally in control of lands which stretched from the Persian border north through the Kuban and into southern Russia.
The Scythians were remarkable not only for their fighting ability but also for the civilization they produced. They developed a class of wealthy aristocrats who left elaborate graves filled with richly worked articles of gold and other precious materials. This class of chieftains, the Royal Scyths, finally established themselves as rulers of the southern Russian and Crimean territories. It is there that the richest and most numerous relics of Scythian civilization have been found. Their power was sufficient to repel an invasion by the Persian king Darius I in about 513 BC.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#Origins_and_pre-history_.28to_700_BC.29

Scholars generally classify the Scythian language (http://amkon.net/wiki/Scythian_languages) as a member of the Eastern Iranian languages (http://amkon.net/wiki/Eastern_Iranian_languages). The Scythians are thought to have originated from the Central Asian (http://amkon.net/wiki/Central_Asia) region of Greater Iran (http://amkon.net/wiki/Greater_Iran) (Persia (http://amkon.net/wiki/Persia))[5]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-5"[6]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-6"[7]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-7"[8]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-8"[9] (http://amkon.net/l%20cite_note-4), as a branch of the ancient Iranian peoples (http://amkon.net/wiki/Ancient_Iranian_peoples) expanding north into the steppe regions from around 1000 BC.[10]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-Sulimirski-10"[11]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-11"[12] (http://amkon.net/l%20cite_note-Szemer.C3.A9nyi-9)


The Scythians only existing at some time around 1000BC seems to rule them out as the source of Milesian invasion that the DNA sources suggest occured roughly 5,000 or more years ago.

However in an earlier excerpt above its suggested in the "Book of Invasions" only that they came out of ancient Scythia "shortly after the deluge". What time do you place the deluge at? 3000BC, 6000BC, 10,000BC.??????

So were does the truth lie, somewhere in between. Are the Tuatha a race of previously unknown origin that arrived in Ireland sometime before the invasion of the Milesians.

When did this occur, 500BC, 1000BC or much later as many are now suggesting, somewhere between 5,000 and 8,000 years ago. That puts the timeline in direct comparison to one of the very first cities that has ever been discovered, Catalhoyuk in Anatolia.

skunk
03-03-2010, 10:57 PM
Shit man you put a lot of time into this thread.

I love reading ancient history, even if a lot of it is completely bullshit.

Tuatha de danaan are fascinating people.

Some stories claims they are "fairies" of sorts with magical powers.

It's quite possible they had technology far surpassing the original inhabitants, and they seemed "magical" to the indigenous people for that very reason.

WITCH HUNT
03-04-2010, 12:13 AM
I love your posts! This one especially. There are about 15 things for me to google.

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 12:20 AM
I'm subscribed. Thanks Mojo. Or was it Skunk?

jk :)

skunk
03-04-2010, 12:21 AM
I have no idea. I think this forum is bugged because sometimes it tells me I've rated threads when I haven't.

Ra187
03-04-2010, 02:55 AM
damn nice thread...cant get enough of the ancient culture...it just leaves so much for the mind to explore and think about.

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 09:16 AM
http://www.likesbooks.com/tuatha.html


The Tuatha De Danaan: The Children of the Goddess Danu

by Greywolf the Wanderer (a 2000 Write Byte)

This article was originally published in the author's magazine, The Faerie Rad

Many Irish today continue to believe in what we would consider the mythological civilization of the Tuatha. . . who's to say?


My parents were proud to teach us that we are born from Irish and Scot ancestors. They said we were Black Irish but could not say exactly what that meant. Still, the question is unanswered but heavily hypothesized upon.

One of Mojo's exerpts describes a people from the area of Spain who came to the lands of Eire. It is possible that the term Black Irish arose from the cross-breeding with these Spaniards or are they the descendants of the Tuatha De Danaan?

WHO WERE THE BLACK IRISH?
=========================

The term 'Black Irish' has commonly been in circulation among Irish emigrants and their descendants for centuries. As a subject of historical discussion the subject is almost never referred to in Ireland. There are a number of different claims as to the origin of the term, none of which are possible to prove or disprove.

'Black Irish' is often a description of people of Irish origin who had dark features, black hair, dark complexion and eyes.

A quick review of Irish history reveals that the island was subject to a number of influxes of foreign people. The Celts arrived on the island about the year 500 B.C. Whether or not this was an actual invasion or rather a more gradual migration and assimilation of their culture by the natives is open to conjecture, but there is sufficient evidence to suggest that this later explanation is more likely. The next great influx came from Northern Europe with Viking raids occurring as early as 795 A.D. The defeat of the Vikings at the Battle of Clontarf in the year 1014 by Brian Boru marked the end of the struggle with the invaders and saw the subsequent integration of the Vikings into Irish society. The migrants became 'Gaelicized' and formed septs (a kind of clan) along Gaelic lines.

The Norman invasions of 1170 and 1172 led by Strongbow saw yet another wave of immigrants settle in the country, many of whom fiercely resisted English dominance of the island in the centuries that followed. The Plantation of Ulster in the seventeenth century saw the arrival of English and Scottish colonists in Ulster after the 'Flight of the Earls'.

Each of these immigrant groups had their own physical characteristics and all, with the exception of the Ulster Planters, assimilated to some degree into Irish society, many claiming to be 'more Irish than the Irish themselves!'

The Vikings were often referred to as the 'dark invaders' or 'black foreigners'. The Gaelic word for foreigner is 'gall' and for black (or dark) is 'dubh'. Many of the invaders families took Gaelic names that utilised these two descriptive words. The name Doyle is in Irish 'O'Dubhghaill' which literally means 'dark foreigner' which reveals their heritage as an invading force with dark intentions. The name Gallagher is 'O Gallchobhair' which translates as 'foreign help'. The traditional image of Vikings is of pale-skinned blond-haired invaders but their description as 'dark foreigners' may lead us to conclude that their memory in folklore does not just depend on their physical description.

The Normans were invited into Ireland by Dermot McMurrough and were led by the famous Strongbow. Normans are ultimately of French origin where black haired people are not uncommon. As with the Vikings these were viewed as a people of 'dark intentions' who ultimately colonised much of the Eastern part of the country and several larger towns. Many families however integrated into Gaelic society and changed their Norman name to Gaelic and then Anglo equivalents: the Powers, the Fitzpatricks, Fitzgeralds, Devereuxs, Redmonds.

It is possible that the term 'Black Irish' may have referred to some of these immigrant groups as a way of distinguishing them from the 'Gaels', the people of ultimately Celtic origin.

Another theory of the origin of the term 'Black Irish' is that these people were descendants of Spanish traders who settled in Ireland and even descendants of the few Spanish sailors who were washed up on the west coast of Ireland after the disaster that was the 'Spanish Armada' of 1588. It is claimed that the Spanish married into Irish society and created a new class of Irish who were immediately recognisable by their dark hair and complexion. There is little evidence to support this theory and it is unlikely that any significant number of Spanish soldiers would have survived long in the war-torn place that was sixteenth century Ireland. It is striking though how this tale is very similar to the ancient Irish legend of the Milesians who settled in Ireland having travelled from Spain.

The theory that the 'Black Irish' are descendants of any small foreign group that integrated with the Irish and survived, is unlikely. It seems more likely that 'Black Irish' is a descriptive term rather than an inherited characteristic that has been applied to various categories of Irish people over the centuries.

One such example is that of the hundreds of thousands of Irish peasants who emigrated to America after the Great Famine of 1845 to 1849. 1847 was known as 'black 47'. The potato blight which destroyed the main source of sustenance turned the vital food black. It is possible that the arrival of large numbers of Irish after the famine into America, Canada, Australia and beyond resulted in their being labelled as 'black' in that they escaped from this new kind of black death.

Immigrant groups throughout history have generally been treated poorly by the indigenous population (or by those who simply settled first). Derogatory names for immigrant groups are legion and in the case of those who left Ireland include 'Shanty Irish' and almost certainly 'Black Irish'. It is also possible that within the various Irish cultures that became established in America that there was a pecking order, a class system that saw some of their countrymen labelled as 'black'.

The term 'Black Irish' has also been applied to the descendants of Irish emigrants who settled in the West Indies. It was used in Ireland by Catholics in Ulster Province as a derogatory term to describe the Protestant Planters.

While it at various stages was almost certainly used as an insult, the term 'Black Irish' has emerged in recent times as a virtual badge of honour among some descendants of immigrants. It is unlikely that the exact origin of the term will ever be known and it is also likely that it has had a number of different creations depending on the historical context. It remains therefore a descriptive term used for many purposes, rather than a reference to an actual class of people who may have survived the centuries.

The Black Irish - An article provided by The Information about Ireland Site.

USAGE:
THIS ARTICLE MAY BE REPRODUCED ON YOUR WEB SITE OR IN YOUR
EZINE OR NEWSLETTER ONCE THE FOLLOWING COPYRIGHT AND 'LINK' TO THE
INFORMATION ABOUT IRELAND SITE ARE INCLUDED AND LEFT INTACT.

(C) Copyright http://www.ireland-information.com (http://www.ireland-information.com/)

I'm beginning to wonder why every path to Irish history and ancestry is blocked with dead ends, mythology, speculation and inevitably unknowable?

mojo
03-04-2010, 09:27 AM
i love how most scholars and authors pretend that the original inhabitants of Ireland started around 500BC.
its the most ridiculous thing i think ive ever heard. apart from the size of ief's cock of course.

there is ample evidence of much much earlier influx of "immigrants" for want of a better word into that portion of the british isles.

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 09:30 AM
I found the following at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Irish

Black Irish is a traditional term that is commonly used among Irish American communities to describe a dark brown or black hair phenotype appearing in Caucasian people of Irish descent. This can be distinguished in contrast to the (lighter) brown, blond or red hair color variant, the latter stereotypically perceived to personify the look of typical Irish folk.[1] The term itself is rather ambiguous and not frequently used in everyday conversation. As such, the description of those it depicts has been known to vary to a degree in that some have differing views on which physical characteristics (e.g., dark hair, brown eyes, medium skin tone or dark hair, blue eyes, pale skin tone) best define the appearance of the so-called Black Irish.[2] This appearance trait is also common in all Celtic regions including Scotland and Wales.

Inspired by tales which claim the darker features to be of Iberian derivation,[3] researchers have looked to science for answers, often citing genetic studies pertaining to those with Irish and/or British ancestry. This is seen as a means of determining what genotypic and environmental factors have contributed to the divergence between the more or less prevalent types found among Irish people.


The first clear evidence of human habitation in Ireland has been carbon dated to circa 7000 BCE.[4] Written records authenticating the existence of primordial peoples have yet to be discovered, but legends, such as those described in the Book of Invasions, refer to a number of historical ethnic groups, including the Fomorians, Nemedians, Fir Bolg, Tuatha Dé Danann, and Milesians. Despite the lack of empirical data linking them to the Irish, one or more of these races have been acknowledged in previous and current ancestral studies, such as Dennis O'Mullally's History of O'Mullally and Lally Clan, or The history of an Irish family through the ages entertwined with that of the Irish nation,[5] wherein the author points to the Fir Bolg as "the aboriginal people of Ireland, smaller in stature than the Gaels, with jet-black hair and dark eyes, contrasting with unusually white skin." Likewise, while such observations remain devoid of scientific backing, recent advances in genetics continue to offer more clues.


In a statistical survey of the Irish carried out by Mr. C. Wesley Dupertuis in the 1940s under the endorsement and guidance of The Division of Anthropology of Harvard University, based on some 10,000 adult males, the following information was gathered and so documented.[16]

The hair color of the Irish is predominantly brown. Less than 3% have black or ashen hair; 40% have dark brown hair. Medium brown hues make up another 35%. Persons with blond and light brown hair account for close to 15%, while approximately 10% have auburn or red hair. Both golden and dark brown shades can be seen in the southwestern counties of Ireland, but fairest hair in general is most common in the Central Plain.[17] Ulster has been evidenced to have the highest frequencies of red hair with the lowest found in Wexford and Waterford.

In further examining pigmentation characteristics (both as a whole and regionally), studies have indicated the Irish are "almost uniquely pale skinned when unexposed, untanned parts of the body, are observed" and "40% of the entire group are freckled to some extent". Moreover, "in the proportion of pure light eyes", data shows that "Ireland competes successfully with the blondest regions of Scandinavia", as approximately 42% of the Irish population have pure blue eyes. Another 30% have been found to possess light-mixed eyes and "less than 1 half of 1% have pure brown".

The complete results of this survey have been condensed and arranged in the Harvard Anthropometric Laboratory (formerly under the close supervision of Professor Earnest A. Hooton) with the cooperation of both governments in Ireland.

mojo
03-04-2010, 09:36 AM
smaller in stature than the Gaels, with jet-black hair and dark eyes, contrasting with unusually white skin."

neandertals?

just a random thought when i read that passage.

perhaps there was some latent neandertal tribes left at that time on the british isles, the invaders (the Tuatha) fought with them and either integrated or took some into slavery after annihilating the rest.
some interbreeding may have occured.

ok i'll stop now, i think i'm writing a story and not focusing on facts, lol.

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 09:39 AM
Danu
Celtic Mother of the Faeries
http://www.thaliatook.com/AMGG/danu.html


Danu is the mother of the Irish gods, linked to the goddess Dôn in Wales. Her tribe is the Tuatha Dé Danann, the People of the Goddess Danu or Ana. Invading Ireland on the first of May, the Tuatha Dé Danann battled the Fir Bolg, and eventually won an uneasy peace. In their turn the Tuatha Dé Danann were displaced by the mortal Milesians, and retreated to the sídhe, or hollow hills, to become the Faery Folk of legend. The coming of the Milesians is likely a mythologizing of the Christian conversion of the Isle that ousted the pagan gods and goddesses.


Danu is a goddess of fertility and plenty, and there is evidence that the river Danube is named for Her. As mother of the faeries she is close to the land and waters.


Other members of the Tuatha Dé Danann include: Manannán, Brigid or Bride, and Macha, one face of the triple war-goddess, the Morrigan. Danu in a reading brings a time of richness and inspiration, of magic and a return to the source.



Alternate names: Ana, Anu, Anann ("wealth, abundance")



It may be difficult to find historical facts but the mythology does give clues if one understands how to interpret them.

mojo
03-04-2010, 09:45 AM
The coming of the Milesians is likely a mythologizing of the Christian conversion of the Isle that ousted the pagan gods and goddesses.


yeah, i dont believe that at all, there is ample evidence of an influx of people from the iberian peninsula imho.

the part of the Tuatha De Danaan mythology that fascinates me other than their point of departure is the description of their arrival.
in particular their ships and technology.

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 10:10 AM
Its most interesting and intriguing to read this history. Its like trying to find your way out of a complicated maze.

mojo
03-04-2010, 10:22 AM
Its most interesting and intriguing to read this history. Its like trying to find your way out of a complicated maze.

yah...ive had that info i used in the OP saved on my hard drive for about 2 years. just hadn't had the time or inclination to get to it sooner.

it was the inspiration for my short story "The Helix Hex' if your interested.

i think there is much more to the mythology than meets the eye. Grains of truth and all that jazz. :)

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 10:25 AM
I know you're right about that. The Rigveda describes the origins of the word mythology as being two parts, mythos (mother) and logos (teach). Something like that. I thought that was appropriate and interesting. Word origins are fascinating.

We think mythology is a collection of fantasy when it is actually the first method of teaching.


Do you have a link to your story, the Helix Hex? I love your writing. You do good.

mojo
03-04-2010, 10:36 AM
I know you're right about that. The Rigveda describes the origins of the word mythology as being two parts, mythos (mother) and logos (teach). Something like that. I thought that was appropriate and interesting. Word origins are fascinating.

i read your take on that the other day. it makes sense. at catahoyuk in anatolia a figurine of a mother goddess was found, similar to many others found throughout the world in different times.

8000BC. :jaw:




Do you have a link to your story, the Helix Hex? I love your writing. You do good.

the helix hex (http://amkon.net/helix-hex-t15577.html)

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 10:47 AM
I feel like I'm being clingy here Mojo. You're the first person who I've met that is as captivated by these subjects as I am.

Just let me know if I start suffocating you.

Now. Off to read The Helix Hex.

mojo
03-04-2010, 10:50 AM
I feel like I'm being clingy here Mojo. You're the first person who I've met that is as captivated by these subjects as I am.

Just let me know if I start suffocating you.



haha...no chance. i have a captive audience willing to listen to me waffle on about thousands year old dead shit.

your the one who is now within my clutches. hehe

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 10:53 AM
Holy hell on wheels.

mojo
03-04-2010, 11:03 AM
Holy hell on wheels.

i get that a lot.

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 11:10 AM
Stop interrupting me. I'm reading your story.

mojo
03-04-2010, 11:17 AM
sorry.


whoops, did i just interupt you again.

my bad.

:)

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 11:22 AM
No probs.

I finished the story and was left wanting more. You did a fantastic job Mojo. I wish I could write as well.

Its hard to believe that the forum hardly paid attention to it. You have a special gift imo.

mojo
03-04-2010, 11:26 AM
No probs.

I finished the story and was left wanting more. You did a fantastic job Mojo. I wish I could write as well.

Its hard to believe that the forum hardly paid attention to it. You have a special gift imo.

lol, thanks.

anyway, enough massaging my ego. i'm going to do some more research and then hit the hay.

hopefully have some more stuff to add to the thread tomorrow.

Hazelnut
03-04-2010, 11:28 AM
I'm only treating you the way I want to be treated.

Rest well.

mojo
08-10-2010, 10:36 PM
The Tuatha De Danaan Family Tree of Gods.

http://baharna.com/celtic/index.htm

skunk
08-13-2010, 11:53 PM
Very cool mojo, I love irish mythology (guess why?).

Hazelnut
09-21-2010, 09:09 AM
Irish Toasts (http://www.corsinet.com/trivia/irish_toasts.html)


Here's to you and yours
And to mine and ours.
And if mine and ours
Ever come across to you and yours,
I hope you and yours will do
As much for mine and ours
As mine and ours have done
For you and yours!

Raptor Jesus
04-12-2011, 05:09 AM
Bumped, Amkon classic.

Similar stories all over the world.