The MIC takeover has failed.

[Raptor Jesus]

Warrened for drunk post

[Mungodave]

Sketch?


Welcome to Amkon Jeff

Mungo

.

[skunk]

Nobody noticed Jeff has 600 posts and has been registered since december? lol.

[Mungodave]

Touche


.

[skunk]

Jeff, interesting idea. I don't think they've "lost" though. Remember Ron Paul claiming the CIA has co-opted the US military not so long ago?

The battle has just begun.

[hp]

Not IMO. They have managed to make people think they lost, it would seem.

[skunk]

I see what you're saying, and I hope you're right.

[mur]

The MIC has managed to convince most people, that we need them.

In that respect, they've won.

The MIC is not the military rank and file however.

These soldiers will not turn on fellow Americans without good reason.

The MIC will continue to point out that they are needed.....Tag word "terrorism"

[skunk]

I'd be more worried about the private military contractors (mercenaries) than the US military. They take orders from the highest bidder.

[boycotteverything]

The military/ industrial complex took over America in the '50s. What show are you watching?

[skunk]

The money is coming from the US taxpayers. $534 billion in 2010, $708 billion projected defense budget for 2011.

[mur]

Only in America, outside it's a different matter The USA MIC is King of the Hill...way more money, way more toys.

Why should I be concerned about other nations MIC?

The MIC won't turn against average Americans either....that would jeopardize their funding.




Good point, this is one of the things I was getting at. When the orders come there is such low morale/mistrust that they won't be followed and the whole power structure will implode in on itself.

Do people think all the high-ranking military are for this? Do people think there isn't dissent?

Orders won't be issued that won't be followed. The US military could not possibly be as naive or as stupid to implode on it self.




This is a joke outside the US, no offence. Chat to a European or South American or Asian about it.

What's a joke?

[mur]

I'd be more worried about the private military contractors (mercenaries) than the US military. They take orders from the highest bidder.

Not enough of them to be a large scale threat in America

[skunk]

Not enough of them to be a large scale threat in America

Tell that to the residents of NOLA during Katrina.

[hp]

The military/ industrial complex took over America in the '50s. What show are you watching?

QFT

[mur]

The military/ industrial complex took over America in the '50s. What show are you watching?


LOST....lol

But they did...Ike warned us

[mur]

Tell that to the residents of NOLA during Katrina.

I don't think you can blame that whole fiasco on military contractors.

There were a multitude of failures.

[Raptor Jesus]

The MIC won't turn against average Americans either....that would jeopardize their funding.

Orders won't be issued that won't be followed. The US military could not possibly be as naive or as stupid to implode on it self.

I hope you're right on both counts and I think you probably are. That was what I was trying to say... the top dogs might have planned a martial law takeover but there's revolt/dissent at all levels of the pyramid and they won't get what they want.



The military/ industrial complex took over America in the '50s. What show are you watching?


Yes no argument there, but it's not a complete takeover... i.e. gun confiscation, camps, billions depopulated etc... The main point of my argument is that their power is waning not waxing.


The money is coming from the US taxpayers. $534 billion in 2010, $708 billion projected defense budget for 2011.

I still reckon they're bankrupt. I don't have the energy to go into it now... another time.


What's a joke?

Fake terror.



Tell that to the residents of NOLA during Katrina.


True, but do they have the manpower to do that on a countrywide scale? I think not.

[skunk]

I don't think you can blame that whole fiasco on military contractors.

There were a multitude of failures.

I'm not blaming Xe/Blackwater for Katrina, I was saying they were a threat to the citizens of New Orleans in that they did not answer to the government (aka the people), only their supervisors.

[hp]

I would wager the MIC is pleased so many in the world do not see them as a threat. That works right in to the idea of the proposed agency of surprise (whatever it was, posted in another thread).

Edit:

Office of ‘Strategic Deception’ (http://amkon.net/showthread.php?t=24588)

[boycotteverything]

The main point of my argument is that their power is waning not waxing.they're neither waxing nor waning- they're too busy ruling. i think you're blind.

[hp]

Increased. Last 8 years ring a bell...

[skunk]

Do you think the power, influence, control, finance etc of the Western Military Industrial Complex is increasing or decreasing worldwide?

Well, their budget is increasing, their manpower is increasing, and their control over resources (oil, coal, natural gas, water, etc) is increasing.

[boycotteverything]

ring a bell... DING DING DING bonus round!

[hp]

With part of corporate america being annexed...

[boycotteverything]

Well, their budget is increasing, their manpower is increasing,who the hell are 'they?' the problem is that corporate America has combined with the party of war- exactly as Eisenhower predicted.

[skunk]

We saw a massive increase the past 8 years, that doesn't mean before Bush we were thrifty spenders in regards to war. Round about $400 billion in 2000 (under Clinton).

World Military Spending (http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending#InContextUSMilitarySpendingVersusRestofth eWorld)

I actually found this article above from here originally (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/26/defense/index.html).

http://static.globalissues.org/i/military/us-spending-2000-2010.png

[hp]

The MIC is removing the individual from the equation.

A bible?

[mur]

I hope you're right on both counts and I think you probably are. That was what I was trying to say... the top dogs might have planned a martial law takeover but there's revolt/dissent at all levels of the pyramid and they won't get what they want.



Yes no argument there, but it's not a complete takeover... i.e. gun confiscation, camps, billions depopulated etc... The main point of my argument is that their power is waning not waxing.





This is propaganda

[Raptor Jesus]

What, are you saying the yellow highlights are fear propaganda?

Agree...

Steve Quayle is full of it, and either knowingly spreading false info or being fed it.

[hp]

Why does a take over have to be martial law. Lack of that would suit the situation better.

[Raptor Jesus]

So do you think their plans are in full swing hp?

no derailments? no delays? no upsets? no dissent? inevitable?

[mur]

Tis a paper tiger, brother... like I said, you guys are in the eye of the storm so you don't see how it looks from here.

So how does it look?

How does "what" look like?





Hearts and minds... every day more people wake up and morale drops. every day more eyes pierce the smokescreen.

Wake up to what? The wars? Maybe that's true...but the MIC is a completely different story. Probably 90% of Americans favor "defense" spending.




They can annexe all the central Asian oil they want. Simultaneous to that, there is a slow grassroots explosion of decentralised power solutions. So by the time they get it all locked down we *could* all be on alt tech anyway. The ball is in our court.

But I support you all 100%... just buy a load of guns and food and a bible and hope for the best.

I see no evidence of an impending lock down.

[mur]

What, are you saying the yellow highlights are fear propaganda?

Agree...

Steve Quayle is full of it, and either knowingly spreading false info or being fed it.


Yes...there is no need to lock down anything....they have everything they want already. When defense spending cuts loom, a crisis will emerge...they always do

[Hazelnut]

When defense spending cuts loom, a crisis will emerge...they always do

Just like clockwork.

[mur]

So do you think their plans are in full swing hp?

no derailments? no delays? no upsets? no dissent? inevitable?

What plans?

The MIC isn't even on folks radar.

Bankers, elected officials, finding a job, keeping ones home, is.

The MIC owns us already, and frankly most don't care.

No one could seriously get elected, (at this point anyway) calling for defense spending cuts.

Ron Paul tried and was clearly ignored by most as someone who was not electable.

[Cogburn]

Fake terror.The terrorists might be stage managed creations, but the terror they create is very real.

[Raptor Jesus]

The terrorists might be stage managed creations, but the terror they create is very real.


True, in the final analysis it doesn't matter if people know if the bombs come from a bunch of crazy Muslims or a bunch of genocidal deep black agents.

I'm trying to give a picture of what it's like outside the U.S. -- I'm in Asia, remember most of the rest of you, if not all of you are from the U.S.

I think the spectre of fake terror is dwindling instead of increasing. YMMV.

[hp]

I would venture to say things are going as planned. We most likely don't know the complete plan but I suspect it has to do with their control of whatever they desire.

[Cogburn]

The specter of terrorism exists only within security and governmental concerns in the United States.

Most of the Silent Majority "get it" after the 2008 elections, and I'm not convinced that another terrorist incident will have the same effects as 9/11... in fact, I anticipate it would have effects quite the opposite.

[Raptor Jesus]

The above post was @hp

Fully agree CB

[mur]

True, in the final analysis it doesn't matter if people know if the bombs come from a bunch of crazy Muslims or a bunch of genocidal deep black agents.

I'm trying to give a picture of what it's like outside the U.S. -- I'm in Asia, remember most of the rest of you, if not all of you are from the U.S.

I think the spectre of fake terror is dwindling instead of increasing. YMMV.


The Average CT'er is looking for something to believe in that makes sense to them.

The Masses are led by TV.

It doesn't matter where you live.

The rest of the world may believe 911 was an inside job, but the American masses as a whole does not.

The USA MIC have access to funding, and they will for years to come, in spite of the economy.

However...the economy could get much worse. America could go bankrupt.

Even then, the MIC will get paid

[mur]

The specter of terrorism exists only within security and governmental concerns in the United States.

Most of the Silent Majority "get it" after the 2008 elections, and I'm not convinced that another terrorist incident will have the same effects as 9/11... in fact, I anticipate it would have effects quite the opposite.


Not a chance at this point

[Raptor Jesus]

I agree with a lot of your post Mur. But...


It doesn't matter where you live.


Haha wrong it makes the world of difference. You are displaying the classic Western conceit of believing your small window on reality is the world.



Even then, the MIC will get paid


With what? Links plz. If these people are so rich why are they paying debts with plated tungsten?

[hp]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooo

Resistance is futile...

***

There's a bug in every CT'ers mind that retro-fits evidence to suit the resistance is futile mindset and resprays every failiure as a test.

"Oh man... they're waiting. Oh man."
I'm not refitting any thing. never said resistance is futile. You are making up a position for me. What test?

The MIC gets whatever it's wants. Look at history. Look at today. DARPA, etc. People haven't had enough. As long as there is a believed threat, they will get some money and time from congress. The rest is done behinds the scenes.

[hp]

Funny, you seem to be talking CT theory and some of us are taking what is happening now and history.

[Cogburn]

With what? Links plz. If these people are so rich why are they paying debts with plated tungsten?

You mean like MIC assets documented as being in positions of direct key influence over the movement of funds during the 2008/9 economic "collapse"?

Right here. (http://amkon.net/mike-ruppert-cia-9-t24520.html)

[Raptor Jesus]

The MIC gets whatever it's wants.

What? They get a lot of what they want, not all. You are also referring to the MIC as a monolithic enitity. I'm arguing that there's a lot of dissent in the ranks, across the board, in the IC as well. I'm saying you are defeatist and your posts show it. I'm not so much making up a position but exposing a mood.


Look at history.

What? PROTIP: Ancient Egypt, Rome, The HRE, The British Empire.


Look at today. DARPA, etc. People haven't had enough. As long as there is a believed threat, they will get some money and time from congress. The rest is done behinds the scenes.

True to an extent, all I'm saying is that it can't go on forever. The trajectory, no matter how slow, is that people are waking up.



Funny, you seem to be talking CT theory and some of us are taking what is happening now and history.


History? Name an empire that has lasted more than 100 years.

[Cogburn]

History? Name an empire that has lasted more than 100 years.
The Xia Dynasty established an empire in China that lasted unbroken for nearly 2000 years.

The Abbasid Caliphate ruled the middle east for nearly 500 years.

The Achaemenid Empire lasted for over 200 years.

The Mongol Empire lasted for over 150 years.

History fail.

[Raptor Jesus]

This has been a decent discussion. 6 pages and no fetterhoffing.

CB, I have to go soon and dnt have time to check the link.

I'm not saying that they don't have a lot of power, and a lot of money. I don't dispute any of that.

What I'm saying is: (They means the Western MIC)

-Their plans are in disarray.
-They have very little support outside the U.S.
-There is massive dissent in their ranks.
-Their psychological control mechanisms are failing.
- They are trying to present a unified front but there are deep cracks in their structures.
- They have a lot of money but funding is a real concern for them.

I don't know if anyone can get behind me on any of those statements or not.

The main thing I want to say is:

They have successfully convinced many people that their fractured rearguard is a unified, inevitable onslaught.

[hp]

The rise of it's control in the US over the last 3 or 4 decades. We can all basically say humans will be gone one day, and so the MIC, but I thought we were referencing the current times, near past history and near future.

[Raptor Jesus]

The rise of it's control in the US over the last 3 or 4 decades.


30-40 years is nothing. Look at the last 2000 years and see if there isn't the same rise and fall.

[hp]

Yes, some day it will be gone.

[Cogburn]

-Their plans are in disarray.
-They have very little support outside the U.S.
-There is massive dissent in their ranks.
-Their psychological control mechanisms are failing.
- They are trying to present a unified front but there are deep cracks in their structures.
- They have a lot of money but funding is a real concern for them.


I'll address each point in turn.


-Their plans are in disarray.Making this claim requires a knowledge of what those plans are. There's never been any real proof of a "plan," therefore there's no means by which one might consider them in "disarray."


-They have very little support outside the U.S.The U.S. I.C. has never had much use for ground level support outside of what was required for a specific operation, and even that was usually just window dressing. The Vietnam era doctrine of "winning of hearts and minds" comes to immediate recall. This statement also ignores the Mossad, MI6, and the SGDN.


-There is massive dissent in their ranks.Huh?


-Their psychological control mechanisms are failing.I see no evidence of this what so ever. Would that be the control mechanism of rampant consumerism, or the control mechanism of the ideology of victimization or the control mechanism of establishment of a false dilemma in the national discourse?


- They are trying to present a unified front but there are deep cracks in their structures.This statement borders on the ridiculous. What proof is there that this "cracks" that you mention (without evidence) are anything but merely skin deep?


- They have a lot of money but funding is a real concern for them.Only in that money is a surrogate for power. If you have obtained power beyond money, do you need it anymore or do you simply need to control it so that others may not come along and threaten your power base?

[hp]

Only in that money is a surrogate for power. If you have obtained power beyond money, do you need it anymore or do you simply need to control it so that others may not come along and threaten your power base?

That seems to describe the bank's view of the current banking/economic situation.

[Cogburn]

According to the traditional chronology based upon calculations by Liu Xin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xin), the Xia ruled between 2205 and 1766 BC; however, according to the chronology based upon the Bamboo Annals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_Annals), it ruled between 1989 and 1558 BC.

Fair enough.

Just a minor point... the Xia dynasty only lasted for a few hundred years, the empire they established lasted unbroken for nearly 2,000 until the time of the Three Kingdoms. It was the empire the dynasty established to which I was referring, not the specific dynasty.

[skunk]

Whoever said resistance is futile?

[mur]

I agree with a lot of your post Mur. But...



Haha wrong it makes the world of difference. You are displaying the classic Western conceit of believing your small window on reality is the world.



With what? Links plz. If these people are so rich why are they paying debts with plated tungsten?

Tax Dollars

I don't think you understand the US as well as you think you do.

I'm not sure I believe the tungsten story. The US does not pay in gold bars last time I checked. Got a link?

My point about TV is that it value is spun no matter where you live.

It's propaganda value works just as well where you live.

I realize it's spin is different where you live, and of course would have a different agenda.

[mur]

-Their plans are in disarray.
-They have very little support outside the U.S.
-There is massive dissent in their ranks.
-Their psychological control mechanisms are failing.
- They are trying to present a unified front but there are deep cracks in their structures.
- They have a lot of money but funding is a real concern for them.



I think Cog addresses these points rather well.

I'd just add this.....

Massive dissent? This is just not true.

They aren't concerned about funding at all.

Gotta go....the AC is speaking

[Lexion]

The Military Industrial Complex takeover has failed.

They'll never get their martial law takeover, or depopulation.

Swine flu failed, bird flu failed. All the stupid WWIII attempts failed.

Failed at what ?

What ends were "they" after ?

Depopulation ?

Is this where you throw in the
Georgia Guidestones ?

Martial law, takeover ?

To what ends ?

Why spend time, effort and money
on such foolishness ?

Where do they get funding ?

I guess I post yearly DoD and DARPA
budgets here, for my own pleasure.

Here are some line-items :

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/Lexion07/lineitem.jpg
(in millions)

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/Lexion07/lineitem2.jpg
(in billions)

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/Lexion07/lineitem3.jpg
(In millions)

FY DoD Greenbook (http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2010/Green_Book_Final.pdf)

The image of the MIC you try
to present is false, and pure
Alex Jones fear-mongering.

[Cogburn]

Nearly 70 billion dollars in assets, and that's just what's on the books.

How much do you think they made from the current market crash, 9/11 short calls, and 30 years of running illegal drugs?

[Lexion]

Plenty of these :

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/Lexion07/lineitem4.jpg

[guinnessford]

it still exists, and always will.

all the way up to patriot act 2,376,345

[Lexion]

Patriot Act has nothing to
do with the MIC.

[guinnessford]

it dont tie any money into domestic spying, operated by the m.i.c.?

or the ability to take military actions?

and then they profit from it?

[Lexion]

it dont tie any money into domestic spying, operated by the m.i.c.?

or the ability to take military actions?

and then they profit from it?

The MIC does what the MIC wants.

No acts of Congress, or Presidential
Acts affect it.

Notice the line in my above post ?

Classified = who knows how much.

Now, the Patriot Act does affect how
white/grey Agencies operate.

The MIC, in my mind isn't evil.

They are like kids in a huge sandbox,
with all the toys they can ever want.

It's the involvement after the discoveries,
and their uses that can be mis-used.

Keep in mind, these are private corps
making these discoveries.

They are paid quite well to do so.

The people that ultimately reap the
benefits are the nefarious ones.

[guinnessford]

i see your point, i guess its a matter of where they have their lines drawn.

[Raptor Jesus]

The MIC does what the MIC wants.

No acts of Congress, or Presidential
Acts affect it.

Notice the line in my above post ?

Classified = who knows how much.

Now, the Patriot Act does affect how
white/grey Agencies operate.

The MIC, in my mind isn't evil.

They are like kids in a huge sandbox,
with all the toys they can ever want.

It's the involvement after the discoveries,
and their uses that can be mis-used.

Keep in mind, these are private corps
making these discoveries.

They are paid quite well to do so.

The people that ultimately reap the
benefits are the nefarious ones.

Thanks Lex, it's good to hear from someone who's been there. I flubbed what I was trying to say cos of too many beers, I'll wind up this thread later when I have more time.

[skunk]

I don't think you "flubbed" anything, I enjoyed the discussion, and the discussion that resulted as a result of the derailing.

I'd say this was one of the more interesting threads lately.