AmKon Does The Illuminati, Once and For All

[Cogburn]

We haven’t done anything like this in a while, so I want to throw out a starting point for some discussion and see where it leads us. We’ve all got a few opinions on the subject, and I’d like to see how much of it is really based on anything solid.

Let’s keep the YouTube’ing of evidence to a minimum, if not non-existent.

Here’s the bits that we can prove beyond all question:

A group calling itself the Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria, or “Illuminati” for short, was started within Austrian Masonic lodges.
We know that the group was disbanded, but not before infiltrating American freemasonry, as noted in an infamous letter penned by George Washington. Washington admitted that they existed, however also said quite clearly that it was not an influence of American freemasonry. http://watch.pair.com/GW.html
“I have heard much of the nefarious, and dangerous plan, and doctrines of the Illuminati, but never saw the Book until you were pleased to send it to me.9 The same causes which have prevented my acknowledging the receipt of your letter have prevented my reading the Book, hitherto; namely, the multiplicity of matters which pressed upon me before, and the debilitated state in which I was left after, a severe fever had been removed. And which allows me to add little more now, than thanks for your kind wishes and favourable sentiments, except to correct an error you have run into, of my Presiding over the English lodges in this Country. The fact is, I preside over none, nor have I been in one more than once or twice, within the last thirty years. I believe notwithstanding, that none of the Lodges in this Country are contaminated with the principles ascribed to the Society of the Illuminati.”
The Alumbrados (“Illuminated” in Spanish) were a sect of Gnostic Christians eradicated by the Spanish Inquisition. The movement spread to France and lasted until the late 18th century when it finally fell from practice. All other offshoots of this movement were destroyed or repressed into extinction. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/16046a.htm
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O101-Alumbrados.html

Does anyone have any documented evidence that the Illuminati, any "Illuminati", existed beyond the 18th century?

Anything will do as a jumping off point for research, so don’t disqualify your links or information just because it’s goofy.

There’s ample evidence of other secret societies operating within our modern society. Skull and Bones being the most notable, however there are a number of other societies, such as the O.T.O. and the Golden Dawn, which still operate under a veil of secrecy regarding its membership and goals to this day. Yes, I know what I am saying. My reason for involvement in such organizations is so that such conspiracies might be validated or invalidated based on the evidence provided.

My opinion is that the Illuminati are gone and the constant usage of their name only serves to obscure the true secret societies operating within our midst and intent on designs of control and self-interest.

There's a lot of new thought around here and I'm hoping that the discussion might actually progress further on a philosophical, intellectual, and factual plane than is possible on other CT sites. That, of course, relies completely upon your contributions. :)

[Paroxysm]

Have you ever read the book "Bloodlines of the Illuminati" by Fritz Springmeier?

http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Lines-Illuminati-Fritz-Springmeier/dp/0966353323

[Cogburn]

Have you ever read the book "Bloodlines of the Illuminati" by Fritz Springmeier?

http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Lines-Illuminati-Fritz-Springmeier/dp/0966353323
I know that Fritz Springmeier is a right-wing radical currently serving federal time for a variety of fun offenses such as a bomb plot and a bank robbery.

I haven't read the book, however I have the DVD of the lecture series he gave by the same name.

Springmeier doesn't reveal anything that is particularly obscure knowledge, and he uses the term "Illuminati" in a pop-culture method, without actually linking such families or bloodlines to any organization with such a name.

The information falls into one of the categories I mentioned in the OP, that of the term "Illuminati" being used to obscure the true facts surrounding the organization and/or other modern secret societies.

Truth be told, I think Springmeier is a profiteer that used "Illuminati" to repackage other people's work without being sued for plagiarism.

[theeindiee]

Fuck the Illuminati. I am the Illuminati. They didn't get canned. They got scared and decided to forfeit cuz they knew I was comin'.

[Paroxysm]

Cog reminds me of certain ATS "debunkers" sometimes.

It is my personal opinion that somewhere between the Georgia Guidestones and the cute Latin phrases of serfdom printed on our dollar bills, there is plenty of evidence to be had of a secret cabal of banksters yielding power & influence in this country to-date. I believe that those "banksters" are still an active part of "The Illuminati".

[Cogburn]

Cog reminds me of certain ATS "debunkers" sometimes.

It is my personal opinion that somewhere between the Georgia Guidestones and the cute Latin phrases of serfdom printed on our dollar bills, there is plenty of evidence to be had of a secret cabal of banksters yielding power & influence in this country to-date. I believe that those "banksters" are still an active part of "The Illuminati".

Ugh. And now you, true to form, fall into the classic "but there's proof all over" mentality without actually being able to connect the dots in any realistic manner.

Freemasons created the Great Seal of the United States, and the All-Seeing Eye is the masonic pictorial representation of God. There is no stated connection anywhere between American freemasonry and the Illuminati, including the denial of such by Washington, himself.

All also said that secret societies and cabals exist. The P2 Lodge of freemasonry was disbanded by the Grand Lodge of Italy for being a black lodge, or a lodge operating outside the general regulations of freemasonry. This was only back in 1980, however no link was ever made between this lodge and the historical Illuminati... other than the statements of that charlatan Leo Zagami, mind you.

We've talked about the Georgia Guidestones on AmKon and analyzed the dimensions: there's definitely specific ratios at work, but they are definitely non-masonic.

Woo hoo! That thread still lives!

http://amkon.net/georgia-guidestones-t22381.html?t=22381&highlight=georgia+guidestones


The overall height of the structure is 2 times the height of the capstone.

The center column is 0.5 the width of the capstone. The width of the center column is 2 times its own depth. The height of the center column is 5 times its own width.

The width of the outer stones is 4 times their depth. The height of the outer stones is 2.5 times their width.

The height of the capstone is 1.5 times its width.

It doesn't seem to follow masonic proportions, which are typically 4:3:1.

About 20lbs of dynamite, 5lbs on each slab, should do the trick.

[Cogburn]

More modern conspiracies.... Ujedinjenje ili Smrt, "Unification or Death", otherwise known as The Black Hand, the conspiracy that started World War I.

... but no confirmed freemasons or otherwise "illuminated" connections that I have been able to find.

I'm just running through the full gambit of history at this point just to cover all the bases. I'm not saying that there's no overall conspiracy here, however truth demands proof.

If there are no connections plausible, even with reasonable doubt, then there must be no real conspiracy, right?

It's an honest question, otherwise how else might one ever arrive at the truth?

I believe that if there are connections to truly be found, this community is the one to do it, once and for all.

BLACK HAND OVER EUROPE
by Henri Pozzi
The Constitution of the Ujedinjenje ili Smrt - Unification or Death

I. Purpose and Name

Article 1. For the purpose of realising the national ideals - the Unification of Serbdom - an organization is hereby created, whose members may be any Serbian irrespective of sex, religion, place or birth, as well as anybody else who will sincerely serve this idea.

Article 2. The organisation gives priority to the revolutionary struggle rather than relies on cultural striving, therefore its institution is an absolutely secret one for wider circles.

Article 3. The organization bears the name: "Ujedinjenje ili Smrt".

Article 4. In order to carry into effect its task the organization will do the following things:
(1) Following the character of its raison d etre it will exercise its influence over all the official factors in Serbia - which is the Piemont of Serbdom - as also over all the strata of the State and over the entire social life in it:
(2) It will carry out a revolutionary organisation in all the territories where Serbians are living:
(3) Beyond the frontiers, it will fight with all means against all enemies of this idea:
(4) It will maintain friendly relations with all the States, nations, organisations, and individual persons who sympathise with Serbia and the Serbian race:
(5) It will give every assistance to those nations and organisations who are fighting for their own national liberation and unification.

II. Official Departments of the Organisation

Article 5. The supreme authority is vested in the Supreme Central Directorate with its headquarters at Belgrade. Its duty will be to see that the resolutions are carried into effect.

Article 6. The number of members of the Supreme Central Directorate is unlimited - but in principle it should be kept as low as possible.

Article 7. The Supreme Central Directorate shall include, in addition to the members from the Kingdom of Serbia, one accredited delegate from each of the organisations of all the Serbian regions: (1) Bosnia and Herzegovina, (2) Montenegro, (3) Old Serbia and Macedonia, (4) Croatia, Slovenia and Symria (Srem), (5) Voyvodina, (6) Sea-coasts.

Article 8. It will be the task of the Supreme Central Directorate to carry out the principles of the organisation within the territory of the Kingdom of Serbia.

Article 9. The duty of each individual Provincial Directorate will be to carry out the principles of the organisation within the respective territories of each Serbian region outside the frontiers of the Kingdom of Serbia. The Provincial Directorate will be the supreme authority of the organisation within its own territory.

Article 10. The subdivisions of the organisation into District Directorates and other units of authority shall be established by the By-Laws of the organisation which shall be laid down, and if need be, from time to time amended and amplified by the Supreme Central Directorate.

Article 11. Each Directorate shall elect, from amongst its own members, its President, Secretary and Treasures.

Article 12. By virtue of the nature of his work, the Secretary may act as a Deputy President. In order that he may devote himself entirely to the work of the organisation, the Secretary s salary and expenses shall be provided by the Supreme Central Directorate.

Article 13. The positions of President and Treasurers shall be un- salaried.

Article 14. All official business questions of the organisation shall be decided in the sessions of the Supreme Central Directorate by a majority of votes.

Article 15. For the execution of such decisions of the organisation, the absolute executive power shall be vested in the President and the Secretary.

Article 16. In exceptional and less important cases the President and the Secretary shall make the decisions and secure their execution, but they shall report accordingly at the next following session of the Supreme Central Directorate.

Article 17. For the purpose of ensuring a more efficient discharge of business, the Supreme Central Directorate shall be divided into sections, according to the nature of the work.

Article 18. The Supreme Central Directorate shall maintain its relations with the Provincial Directorates through the accredited delegates of the said provincial organisations, it being understood that such delegates shall be at the same time members of the Supreme Central Directorate; in exceptional cases, however, these relations shall be maintained through special delegates.

Article 19. Provincial Directorates shall have freedom of action. Only in cases of the execution of broader revolutionary movements will they depend upon the approval of the Supreme Central Directorate.

Article 20. The Supreme Central Directorate shall regulate all the signs and watchwords, necessary for the maintenance of secrecy in the organisation.

Article 21. It shall be the Supreme Central Directorate s duty punctually and officially to keep all the members of the organisation well posted about all the more important questions relative to the organisation.

Article 22. The Supreme Central Directorate shall from time to time control and inspect the work of its own departments. Analogically, the other Directorates shall do likewise with their own departments.

III. The Members of the Organisation

Article 23. The following rule, as a principle, shall govern all the detailed transactions of the organisation: All communications and conversations to be conducted only through specially appointed and authorised persons.

Article 24. It shall be the duty of every member to recruit new members, but it shall be understood that every introducing member shall vouch with his own life for all those whom he introduces into the organisation.

Article 25. The members of the organisation as amongst themselves shall not be known to one another. Only the members of Directorates shall be known personally to one another.

Article 26. In the organisation the members shall be registered and known by their respective numbers. But the Supreme Central Directorate must know them also by their respective names.

Article 27. The members of the organisation must unconditionally obey all the commands given by their respective Directorates, as also all the Directorates must obey unconditionally the commands which they receive direct from their superior Directorate.

Article 28. Every member shall be obliged to impart officially to the organisation whatever comes to his knowledge, either in his private life or in the discharge of his official duties, in as far as it may be of interest to the organisation.

Article 29. The interest of the organisation shall stand above all other interests.

Article 30. On entering into the organisation, every member must know that by joining the organisation he loses his own personality; he must not expect any glory for himself, nor any personal benefit, material or moral. Consequently the member who should dare to try to exploit the organisation for his personal, or class, or party interests shall be punished by death.

Article 31. Whosoever has once entered into the organisation can never by any means leave it, nor shall anybody have the authority to accept the resignation of a member.

Article 32. Every member shall support the organisation by his weekly contributions. The organisations, however, shall have the authority to procure money, if need be, by coercion. The permission to resort to these means may be given only by Supreme Central Directorate within the country, or by the regional Directorates within their respective region.

Article 33. In administering capital punishment the sole responsibility of the Supreme Central Directorate shall be to see that such punishment is safely and unfailingly carried into effect without any regard for the ways and means to be employed in the execution.

IV. The Seal and the Oath of Allegiance

Article 34. The Organisation s official seal is thus composed: In the centre of the seal there is a powerful arm holding in its hand an unfurled flag on which - as a coat of arms - there is a skull with crossed bones; by the side of the flag, a knife, a bomb and a phial of poison. Around, in a circle, there is the following inscription, reading from left to right: "Unification or Death", and in the base: "The Supreme Central Directorate".

Article 35. On entering into the organisation the joining member must pronounce the following oath of allegiance:
"I (the Christian name and surname of the joining member), by entering into the organisation "Unification or Death", do hereby swear by the Sun which shineth upon me, by the Earth which feedeth me, by God, by the blood of my forefathers, by my honour and by my life, that from this moment onward and until my death, I shall faithfully serve the task of this organisation and that I shall at all times be prepared to bear for it any sacrifice. I further swear by God, by my honour and by my life, that I shall unconditionally carry into effect all its orders and commands. I further swear by my God, by my honour and by my life, that I shall keep within myself all the secrets of this organisation and carry them with me into my grave. May God and my comrades in this organisation be my judges if at any time I should wittingly fail or break this oath!"

V. Supplementary Orders

Article 36. The present Constitution shall come into force immediately.

Article 37. The present Constitution must not be altered.

Done at Belgrade this 9th day of May, 1911 A.D.

Signed:

Major Ilija Radivojevitch
Vice-Consul Bogdan Radenkovitch
Colonel Cedimilj A. Popovitch
Lt.-Col. Velimir Vemitch
Journalist Ljubomir S. Jovanovitch
Col. Dragutin T. Dimitrijevitch
Major Vojin P. Tanksoitch
Major Milan Vasitch
Col. Milovan Gr. Milovanovitch

[century]

I don't see any way of actually documenting the evidence of a Secret Society, unless you could somehow expose their practices from within. Even once you have visual proof of something it almost always becomes hearsay anyway in these situations do to the symbolic nature of the occult community and the endless compartmentalization of the different sects.

[century]

Freemasons obviously believe that their systems have steered the world to greater good for centuries but as always may be used for nefarious purposes, that being said when I take a look at the world system it doesn't look like the ones pulling the strings have our best interest at hand. Which would incline me to think I should smoke a joint.

[Cogburn]

I don't see any way of actually documenting the evidence of a Secret Society, unless you could somehow expose their practices from within. Even once you have visual proof of something it almost always becomes hearsay anyway in these situations do to the symbolic nature of the occult community and the endless compartmentalization of the different sects.
Not so much exposure from within, but evidence of behavior.

Here's an example that ties your points together nicely.

Mike Kulkin of Paranoia Magazine (http://www.paranoiamagazine.com) connected the dots to get us started.

Alistair Crowley provided Adolf Hitler a copy of Liber AL through a woman named Martha Kunzel. Kunzel pushed Hitler to adopt the Book of the Law as the holy book for the Third Reich, but Months later Hitler penned Mein Kampf and Hitler elected to use it, instead. Kulkin also documents that "[Governor of Danzig Hermann] Rauschning openly acknowledged Hitler's obsession with the occult, and found that very often Hitler was paraphrasing or expressing an idea from The Book of the Law, often word for word" in a book Rauschning published himself entitled "Hitler Speaks," which was drawn from a collection of recordings made between Rauschning and Hitler on the subject of the occult.

There's strong evidence elsewhere to suggest that Karl Germer, the head of the O.T.O. from 1947 until his death in the 60's, was the founder of the Thule Society. My theory is that Germer was usurped as head of the Thule by Himmler in 1943, who had the former sent to a concentration camp. Upon his release by allied forces, Germer was allowed to enter the United States (where he served in my lodge, by the way) but was watched by the FBI and the CIA until his death.

This, of course, doesn't mean that the O.T.O. then or now officially endorsed the efforts of Crowley and Germer. The organization was started 30 years prior to Crowley's taking of the helm. Does it mean that the O.T.O. inspires members to such works, or that the works that they create are capable of corruption on a scale that, prior to WWII, was hard to imagine?

Again, a valid conspiracy, but not directly tied into the "Illuminati." The occult roots are the same, but those are also the same occult roots that founded the United States of America. Does that mean that those roots are bad, or that they are capable of creating both good and evil?

There's much symbolism in common between freemasonry and the O.T.O., and there are many like myself who are members of both. The symbolism important to this conversation is that of the black and white tile floor. The tiles represent a path mixed with both good and evil, and upon which tiles you chose to walk is up to you. Therefore it is my opinion that these organizations pass no judgement nor offer any support to their members in regard to what they create, merely that their members be aware of their potential for both when employing the lessons those organizations teach.

Not to sidetrack the discussion too far into occultism, but I wanted to make sure that I was completely forthcoming as to what I have come to discover.

You can absolutely track secret societies through their creations, as the measure of one's creations is in the number of people affected by your creation and the level of its profoundity upon them.

I started the thread with a joint. I find it helps keep one sane when venturing into the rabbit hole. :)

[RubyRocket]

Iam gazing through one of many books I have..this one is titled "The Brotherhood, inside the secret of freemasons."
by Tim Dedopulos
According to him, the history goes back to king Solomon.
Quite a fascinating read, and I've just begun it.

[Cogburn]

That is an excellent book. I serve as Head Mentor in my masonic lodge and suggest that book as reading to new initiates.

For the more esoteric meanings of freemasonry, I'd recommend The Meaning Of Masonry by W.L. Wilmshurst. You can even find copies online. (http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/meaning_of_masonry/table_of_contents.htm)

The parable of Solomon's Temple is complete historical fiction. Hiram Abiff never existed. The O.T.O. employs a similar fiction surrounding Saladin, the leader of the Abbasid Caliphate that defeated the Knights Templar, stole from them the True Cross of the Crucifixion, and then buried it under the steps of the al-Masjid al-Aq'sa once he regained control of Jerusalem. It's worth noting that the al-Masjid al-Aq'sa was the headquarters of the Templars and Knights of Malta, and was ancient even in their time.

[century]

Iam gazing through one of many books I have..this one is titled "The Brotherhood, inside the secret of freemasons."
by Tim Dedopulos
According to him, the history goes back to king Solomon.
Quite a fascinating read, and I've just begun it.


Legend has it that Solomon possessed a diamond ring, with which he called up jinns to help his armies in battle. The highest of the jinns is Azazel, the prince of darkness, or the Devil. The jinns were thought by some to be spirits that are lower than angels because they are made of fire and are not immortal.

I've also heard that Genies and jinns are the same thing.
My house is haunted.
Some of my room-mates have used a Ouija board in here.
Kind of creepy but I've been here for 3 years and they rarely fuck with me

[Cogburn]

Legend has it that Solomon possessed a diamond ring, with which he called up jinns to help his armies in battle. The highest of the jinns is Azazel, the prince of darkness, or the Devil. The jinns were thought by some to be spirits that are lower than angels because they are made of fire and are not immortal.

I've also heard that Genies and jinns are the same thing.
My house is haunted.
Some of my room-mates have used a Ouija board in here.
Kind of creepy but I've been here for 3 years and they rarely fuck with meThe Legemmeton is one of my personal favorite playthings, and I've found it, as well as the Enochian system, to be extremely effective in convincing skeptics of the validity of the arts. :twisted:

However, the attribution of it being to Solomon, King of Jerusalem is generally accepted within occult circles to be allegorical and not historical.

The roots of all such thought extend to the mystery schools of Greece and Egypt, but then we start to cross over into information you can find in any college text on the roots of Western civilization.

The assumption that the Illuminati employ this method of metaphysics arises from its association with freemasonry in the 18th century, the best that I can tell.

Just trying to keep the thread on track a little before it goes winding down the occultism trail again... :)

[century]

However, the attribution of it being to Solomon, King of Jerusalem is generally accepted within occult circles to be allegorical and not historical.
What about Sheba, and the Ark, Ethiopia, symbolism also?

[Cogburn]

What about Sheba, and the Ark, Ethiopia, symbolism also?

It really wasn't my intent to go through a Western occultism Q&A, but given that we're the only ones around right now and I'm suffering from insomnia, why not.

The Ark is important within Royal Arch masonry as housing it is the reason for the construction of King Solomon's Temple.

The Sheba/Ethiopia symbology is largely a product of Nigel Jackson's fantasies. His books take masonic and Western esoteric symbolism and does hideous things to it.

There's a public ceremony in freemasonry called the Board of Installed Masters which addresses the Queen of Sheba's visit to King Solomon. It is intended as an admonishment to the incoming Worshipful Master on service to the lodge and not one's self, in keeping with the greater theme of the parable of King Solomon. For what it's worth, this ceremony is performed every year at the installation of a new Worshipful Master, usually between December and February. You could probably catch one at a local lodge right now.

The link below contains about 10 pages of text concerning the story and its relation to freemasonry. I'm only quoting the conclusion here because I think it applies to your question quite nicely.

The paper I have presented today is for entertainment and enlightenment. Remember this is a light-hearted compendium of tales, stories and legends from various sources. It may not be factually correct. Nonetheless, I hope it has given you some insight into the life and times of King Solomon, our first Grand Master. It was natural that imaginative stone masons long before speculative masonry should have felt a kinship with the great builders of all ages. It was natural that they should have acknowledged a peculiar attraction to the most famous and glorious of all building enterprises, King Solomon’s temple. Without a doubt, King Solomon’s temple was the grandest most costly structure ever erected. Thus it follows that Solomon’s temple should come to be regarded as the ideal prototype of a spiritual temple, which explains its prominence in our ritual. However, it is better to pattern ourselves after the building than after Solomon himself. After the departure of the Queen of Sheba, the completion of his luxurious Temple became more important to Solomon than the practice of his religion. Then his luxurious Palace "built for personal rather than collective use" took precedence over the Temple. Finally, his writing and preaching of wisdom became increasingly divorced from experience. Solomon no longer lived by the humane principles for which he had become respected and honoured. Some historians even view him as a tyrant who became devoted to his own glory, and whose greed and extravagance led him to build his kingdom on injustice, oppression and misery. All this for the love of a woman?

[century]

Thanx for tha link Cog:thumright:

[Cogburn]

Here's another fun thought spawned by another thread.

It's been offered that the targeting of the WTC towers for the attacks on 9/11 was chosen as a representation of the masonic pillars of Jochim and Boaz.

If this were true, the destruction of the pillars would represent the destruction of the very philosophical foundations upon which freemasonry is constructed.

Does this mean that the targeting of the WTC was an anti-masonic action, caused by the enemies of such philosophies?

Not to forget that the roots of freemasonry are the same as all religions spawned from the Covenant of Abraham. If that's all true, could it really have been Muslims and freemasons, as most theories seem to indicate one or the other behind the events of 9/11?

I've never thought about it like that before. Shit...

Toss the Pentagon in there, too...

[Lexion]

Great thread.

I've not looked into the Illuminati
much, since I think it's a bunch
of BS.

Aren't they supposed to be run by
banksters ?

That would/might tie in the Knights
Templar.

Be that as it may, we are in a Global
economic collapse.

Seems they lost their grip.

And the GuideStones. Most of what
I hear people decrying is population
control.

To what end ?

Easier to manipulate the masses ?

Again, to what end ?

The feeling of absolute power ?

It just seems like people need
a secret ruling class to blame
their own woes on.

[guinnessford]

That would/might tie in the Knights
Templar.

depending on wich side of the tracks you are from, would indicate either anti illumists, or protectors of it.

nothing proves , or disproves the existence of either.

in my mind, and maybe only mine, the greatest trick the devil pulled was making people beleive he didnt exist.

papers, or statements of disbaning only would further to prove the evidence of a truly secret society.

how better to fly under the radar?

im not going on either side of the argument.

i beleive there are greater powers, steering politics and money than the ones we see, but i dont know or pretend to know who it is.

that would make it easy, though...having a place to lay the blame.

[guinnessford]

That is an excellent book. I serve as Head Mentor in my masonic lodge and suggest that book as reading to new initiates.

For the more esoteric meanings of freemasonry, I'd recommend The Meaning Of Masonry by W.L. Wilmshurst. You can even find copies online. (http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/meaning_of_masonry/table_of_contents.htm)

The parable of Solomon's Temple is complete historical fiction. Hiram Abiff never existed. The O.T.O. employs a similar fiction surrounding Saladin, the leader of the Abbasid Caliphate that defeated the Knights Templar, stole from them the True Cross of the Crucifixion, and then buried it under the steps of the al-Masjid al-Aq'sa once he regained control of Jerusalem. It's worth noting that the al-Masjid al-Aq'sa was the headquarters of the Templars and Knights of Malta, and was ancient even in their time.


kinda off center, and maybe even off topic...what exactly is it that they are digging for in iraq?

is it a temple of some kind?

ur post made me think of it.

[skunk]

I thought the stargate was supposedly buried in Iraq? Or at the mouth of the persian gulf?

[guinnessford]

I thought the stargate was supposedly buried in Iraq? Or at the mouth of the persian gulf?


maybe thats it.

its some form of a temple, though?
ive seen the mounds/hills from aerial views.
they look pretty strange...

[pack3tg0st]

Might have to specifically define what you mean by illuminati...

That word is so used up it now has a crapload of different meanings...

are we specifically talking about a secret society of elite?

or just the elite puppetmasters?

[Cogburn]

Might have to specifically define what you mean by illuminati...

That word is so used up it now has a crapload of different meanings...

are we specifically talking about a secret society of elite?

or just the elite puppetmasters?

That was my intention for the thread. The Illuminati did exist, but for such a group to still be in power they would need to still exist and be connected to major events in the 20th century.

Secret societies and conspiracies we have in abundance, but any shred of evidence of a group called the "Illuminati" in modern times would seem, so far, to only exist in the novels of Dan Brown.

[guinnessford]

Might have to specifically define what you mean by illuminati...

That word is so used up it now has a crapload of different meanings...

are we specifically talking about a secret society of elite?

or just the elite puppetmasters?


hmmm...

i would think if iwere in the illuminati, trying to be secretive, that name wouldnt be used.

i see your point, too pack.

its tossed at anything sinister and unknown that may be controlling something.

thats why i use hidden hand, trying not to mislabel anything.

and as far as we know, the illuminati could be trying to fight the corruption thats going on.

who knows.

shit, before 9-11, how many people knew of skull and bones, knights of malta, the knights templar, or any other dan brown story?

who knows what side anyone is on, if we dont even know their name, or for that matter if they exist?

[pack3tg0st]

Dan Brown ruined my interest in Rennes Le Chateau...

Now you can't even mention it without people getting all weird...

[pack3tg0st]

ZOMFG...

Amkon doesn't have a Rennes Le Chateau thread?

[Lexion]

ZOMFG...

Amkon doesn't have a Rennes Le Chateau thread?

For good reason.

[pack3tg0st]

For good reason.

hahahaha take it you don't like Renne Le Chateau?

Like I said... it was a fascinating topic... until it gets ruined by poorly researched novels and shitty movies...

Now everyone ties it with the Illuminati...

But, ya still gotta wonder... WTF did he find on those scrolls?

(I personally think it was something scathing to the catholic church itself... not something fundamentally groundshaking to the religion though...)

[Lexion]

Did he even find any scrolls ?

I've read up on it, a few years
ago.

Sounds like a classic urban myth.

[guinnessford]

could be the templars have the knowledge that religion is a scam, and thats why they were sent "under"

maybe im off topic, but to add to this, can we try to find who was on which side?

were the templars for or against illuminati, etc?

dan brown really fukked things up, was that intentional?

like ollie stones jfk used disinfo, and stretched truths for his movie?

like harvey keitels freemason ring after the stash is found.....

was that a product placement, or a "bent twig" on the wrong path?

[pack3tg0st]

Did he even find any scrolls ?

I've read up on it, a few years
ago.

Sounds like a classic urban myth.


It does sound urban myth like...

but somehow he got a shitload of money really fast... from overseas...

(his money dried up during WWI, but was back after the war was over)

But I'd say it's a pretty decent chance that something was found... because it wasn't found by Sauniere... It was found by someone else, who then reported to him and gave it to him... (I forget the name of the acolyte that found it)

maybe we do need a Rennes thread so we don't derail cogs further...

But... It does piss me off that the location/names/events were used in a work of fiction... now the waters are so muddy its damn near impossible to find credible material...

[Lexion]

But... It does piss me off that the location/names/events were used in a work of fiction... now the waters are so muddy its damn near impossible to find credible material...

Sounds like Roswell.

[Cogburn]

maybe we do need a Rennes thread so we don't derail cogs further...

It's related info so it fits here. If you decide to start another thread, just come back and link it to this one.

At least we can keep all the research sort of associated.

Rennes Le Chateau and Rosslyn Chapel are popular masonic tourism destinations.

I gotta bail for a while, but GF asked a ton of good questions. Maybe by the time I come back he will have offered some answers for us to discuss. :)

[Lexion]

were the templars for or against illuminati, etc?

Are the Illumanati the Catholic Church ?
(I've heard this proposed)

If so, they were in bed for quite
a while.

Then, the Pope turned on them.

[Cogburn]

Are the Illumanati the Catholic Church ?
(I've heard this proposed)

If so, they were in bed for quite
a while.

Then, the Pope turned on them.

The Illuminati were not documented as existing prior to the Spanish Gnostic sect, which was 500 years after the destruction of the Knights Templar. The AISB wasn't until 1776.

If the Illuminati were specifically against the Catholic Church, Brown's timeline is way off.

[guinnessford]

http://www.templarhistory.com/who.html
http://meta-religion.com/Secret_societies/Groups/Illuminati/illuminatie.htm
http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0620

the last link infers that they were in unison, at least with the use of the tunnels.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_illuminati_11a.htm

im nut 100 pct on any of these scources, just some of the more "non ct" sites ive found, hopefully not having an agenda.

[guinnessford]

If the Illuminati were specifically against the Catholic Church, Brown's timeline is way off.

i think it was church against them.

thats another reason i beleive brown could be sending us down a different path.

also would love to find out what the realopus dei has its hands into, killing jesus' relatives seems a lil out there.


dont think there would be any way for them to prove they were family, or put forth any argument of him being joe the plumber.

[Cogburn]

Allow me a bit of in-thread summary of the information...

The Templars were destroyed in 1307 by Philip the Fair, king of France, and Pope Clement. This story is taught to all members of the Order of DeMolay, which is a masonic organization for boys styled after the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar, Jacques DeMolay.

The order for the arrest of the Templars was issued on Friday the 13th, which is where the day gets its unlucky connotations.

The reason for the destruction is historically given as a means to confiscate the vast wealth of the Templar order, which was built upon the operation of the first system of international banks in Europe.

While we seem to be skipping down the path of most known secret society histories, there's still no sign of an "Illuminati" merger with the Templars that I've been able to uncover.

The stories that place the Templars as the roots of freemasonry were supported for a long time, however information in the past 20 years has begun to indicate that freemasonry was started by Francis Bacon, John Dee and others in the late 16th century, nearly 300 years later.

[guinnessford]

the only thing i read that brought them together was using the same tunnel, which could either mean they were part of each other, like higher designations, or just simply knew of them.

[guinnessford]

also, the orders to arrest, led to torture and confessions of stepping and spitting on the cross....torture rarely gains truth.

just something to stop the torture.

[Cogburn]

the only thing i read that brought them together was using the same tunnel, which could either mean they were part of each other, like higher designations, or just simply knew of them.

also, the orders to arrest, led to torture and confessions of stepping and spitting on the cross....torture rarely gains truth.

just something to stop the torture.

There were two knightly orders that answered directly to the Pope: one being the Knights Templar, the second being the Knights of Malta.

The two groups fought side-by-side for several hundred years, each with their own specific task in regards to reclamation (Malta) or protection (Templar) of captured territories within the Holy Land.

The masonic version of the DeMolay story is that DeMolay burned at the stake continuing to refuse to denounce his brethren or reveal the secrets of the Order. The intended lesson is obvious.

[Eyeforalie]

Adam Weishaupt (http://www.nii.net/~obie/adam.htm)

Adam Weishaupt was born February 6, 1748 at Ingoldstadt and educated by

the Jesuits. His appointment as Professor of Natural and Canon Law at

the University of Ingoldstadt in 1775, a position previously held by an

ecclesiastic, gave great offense to the clergy. "Weishaupt, whose views

were cosmopolitan, and who knew and condemned the bigotry and

superstitions of the Priests, established an opposing party in the

University.... This was the beginning of the Order of Illuminati or the

Enlightened...."(2) Weishaupt was not then a Freemason; he was

initiated into Lodge Theodore of Good Council (Theodor zum guten Rath),

at Munich in 1777.

The "Illuminati"had roots well before Weishaupt was involved. His branch was suppressed in 1785. It is entirely possible that the 'Illuminati' was at that time only broken into smaller pieces. I dont think they they, called by that name exist anywhere in the word. There have only been, to my knowledge, a handful of groups that have operated under a related name in the last 20,000 years. I do believe that the arts of Illumination has a potent impact on modern society, but do not think however, the name still exists in practice. I also believe that there are anti-"Illuminati" factions operating within the US that use the esoteric arts to "fight" the role perpetuated by the so-called ""Illuminati".

[Cogburn]

http://www.nii.net/~obie/adam.htm]Adam Weishaupt (http://www.nii.net/~obie/adam.htm)

The "Illuminati"had roots well before Weishaupt was involved. His branch was suppressed in 1785. It is entirely possible that the 'Illuminati' was at that time only broken into smaller pieces. I dont think they they, called by that name exist anywhere in the word. There have only been, to my knowledge, a handful of groups that have operated under a related name in the last 20,000 years. I do believe that the arts of Illumination has a potent impact on modern society, but do not think however, the name still exists in practice. I also believe that there are anti-"Illuminati" factions operating within the US that use the esoteric arts to "fight" the role perpetuated by the so-called ""Illuminati".
There's no proof that a group named the Illuminati existed (other than the Spanish) prior to Weishaupt and Knigge, and your link does not refute that assertion.

[guinnessford]

a lesson held to this day.

i would think, that facing being burned at the stake would make remaining illuminists disappear for good, only to reveal themselves to known bretheren.

im sure theres a link to modern day workings, but would probably never be able to prove any of it.

too much to lose, ya know?

having a plan to rule the world and end religion, had to have a back up plan, methinks

[Cogburn]

im sure theres a link to modern day workings, but would probably never be able to prove any of it.

too much to lose, ya know?

having a plan to rule the world and end religion, had to have a back up plan, methinks
There's a well-known book entitled "Holy Blood, Holy Graile" that attempts to create a direct, supported, historical link from the Templars to the freemasons, however in light of more recent discoveries this link appears more tenuous than at first blush.

[Eyeforalie]

There's no proof that a group named the Illuminati existed (other than the Spanish) prior to Weishaupt and Knigge, and your link does not refute that assertion.

Well, yeah...Thats what I'm saying. The link was just to say who Weishaupt was. Hence the quotes.

I dont believe there is an Illuminati, by that name.

[guinnessford]

There's a well-known book entitled "Holy Blood, Holy Graile" that attempts to create a direct, supported, historical link from the Templars to the freemasons, however in light of more recent discoveries this link appears more tenuous than at first blush.


always makes me wonder what is intentionally left out, or left "out" to see.

[Eyeforalie]

So if there is no "Illuminati", but the teachings and the arts are still practiced, who is doing what?

[Cogburn]

So if there is no "Illuminati", but the teachings and the arts are still practiced, who is doing what?
It's not their teachings as is so often claimed: the teachings were always out there, and this one particular group chose to employ them for nefarious purposes. The 18th century Illuminati borrowed from existing Western esoteric mystery schools in order to create a new one with designs on world control.

Unless someone offers something to the contrary, that is exactly what seems to be indicated from the research in this thread.

The Illuminati rosters were confiscated and published while it was being outlawed. From all historical accounts I can find, all known members of the Illuminati were expunged from positions of power, as well.

Can anyone find evidence of any Illuminati not being purged from the masonic lodges of Europe?

I'm seriously starting to think that the whole Illuminati tale really is just pop-culture nonsense, bordering on outright disinformation. It keeps honest researchers running in circles.

[Eyeforalie]

It keeps honest researchers running in circles.

Yes. Very confusing when the Rothchilds are constantly brought into discussions. Its the teaching that are important. That is the reason for the disinformation. But then, by who?

[Cogburn]

But then, by who?
Classic gumshoe time: who would gain?

Obvious answer: whatever groups wish to continue to operate from the shadows with their own designs of world domination, summoning up the specter of the "Illuminati" takes any investigators on a wild goose chase.

Any or all of the groups so far mentioned in this thread would have ample justification, incentive, credibility, and balls to claim the mantle of "Illuminati" in order to confuse attempts at piercing the veil of secrecy surrounding those organizations.

It's why I think that a documented list of all known real conspiracies should be made. If there are linkages between them, those who created such atrocities will make themselves known by their works.

[theeindiee]

harvest kitty?

[Eyeforalie]

It's why I think that a documented list of all known real conspiracies should be made. If there are linkages between them, those who created such atrocities will make themselves known by their works.

That would certainly simplify things.

[Cogburn]

Secret societies and conspiracies exist.

The Illuminati used to exist, but now it does not.

Does that about sum it up?

It's interesting the people that chose not to contribute to this thread. I can't help but wonder if it is due to the fact that they do not want their beliefs challenged, or are unable to sufficiently support those beliefs in open discussion.

[skunk]

I have used the word to describe a secret cabal, although I recognize it doesn't necessarily have any connection to the bavarian illuminati.

[Lexion]

It's interesting the people that chose not to contribute to this thread.

Deny Stupid.

[Cogburn]

I don't mean just the AISB, I mean anyone who has ever called themselves "Illuminati".

From what I can see, there's only two and they don't go back further than 500 years.

Someone claimed that they've been around since the beginning of civilization, however the only thing related to this discussion that has done so is the philosophical core beliefs, and I can't find proof that it even existed beyond Aristotle. A philosophy is not an organization, nor does adherence to a philosophy an organization make.

I've never really sat down and given a full preponderance to the evidence regarding the Illuminati prior to this thread. I still think that there's a few folks with things to contribute who are simply afraid of ridicule.

[skunk]

I still think that there's a few folks with things to contribute who are simply afraid of ridicule.

Ha, go figure. This is AmKon after all, a fucking shark tank at times.

[guinnessford]

so, the illuminati do not exist, but the ideals may still carry on.

if a church of men were disbanded, but the practices were picked up by another group, would it be normal to call this next group by the original name?

rothschild/rockefeller/dupont/kennedy/insertname are to me what the ideals have been passed on to, and whether or not its the "illuminati" wouldnt matter if thats true.

walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....i would call it a duck.
but also wouldnt be upset if someone corrected me by calling it waterfowl.

[Cogburn]

if a church of men were disbanded, but the practices were picked up by another group, would it be normal to call this next group by the original name?
Excellent point.

Who, then, are the inheritors of the mantel of the Illuminati, and how might one go about proving such a thing, even casually?

Skull and Bones seems an obvious candidate, but something like that based solely in America seems a bit... confining. The O.T.O. might also qualify, however its roots are well known, thoroughly researched, and no linkage can be made beyond the adoption of masonic philosophy. Granted that it was done in the same style of the AISB, the O.T.O. lacks the distinctive extroverted focus in its doctrine and dogma that would be required of a group bent on controlling the world.

Although now I can't help but wonder: from all the secret groups and cabals throughout history that have had designs on world domination, why does modern conspiracy theory select the Illuminati as its target?

Echoes of Robert Anton Wilson?

[hp]

Might the Vatican be a likely place to search. Although if meaningful enough, there may be no written records left at this time.

[guinnessford]

im guessing illuminati is the scariest.

ive thought recently, its just an old boys club...by invite only, things are tossed your way to see how you play with others.

then maybe sponsored and added.

having a name, or an order isnt too important, i guess.

[guinnessford]

Might the Vatican be a likely place to search. Although if meaningful enough, there may be no written records left at this time.


good possibility, but the original roots can be traced to biblical destruction, the illuminati.

the vatican is very powerful, and i could see them thinking thats a good way to convert the world.:shock:

[hp]

Even with no direct connection, the Vatican might have monitored them for a very long time. Competition, so to speak.

[skunk]

Anybody wanna hack the vatican library?

[Eyeforalie]

Remember that it wasn't just a boys club. Eve Weishaupt was rumored to be the actual head of the AISB. If we open up to groups accecpting of any gender we may be able to find a path.

[guinnessford]

Remember that it wasn't just a boys club. Eve Weishaupt was rumored to be the actual head of the AISB. If we open up to groups accecpting of any gender we may be able to find a path.


hadnt heard that, but plausible i guess.

old boy network just being a figure of speech, not really a very good analogy on my part.

[Eyeforalie]

Anybody wanna hack the vatican library?

Link? ;)

[skunk]

http://www.vatican.va/library_archives/vat_library/index.htm

Good luck.

[Eyeforalie]

Haha. I don't think they would put any info on that site that would be worth of hacking. Thanks though. Haha.

[skunk]

There's something online alright, you just can't see it without proper clearance...And probably have to be logged in from the vatican itself.

Anybody have a spare vatican IP spoofer lying around?

http://www.vatican.va/library_archives/vat_secret_archives/index.htm

[Eyeforalie]

Oh really...I'll check that out when I'm not on my phone. The link may be good for info regardless of a hack. I think a plan needs to be adopted to get this all figured out. I'm thinking...

[skunk]

The secret archives are just that, secret. But you can read their public archives.

[Lexion]

Vatican.rg.foia.gov

[skunk]

Vatican.rg.foia.gov

That didn't work for me.

[Eyeforalie]

Its impossible to prove the Illuminati to exist in present time, therefore, the do not exist. However, If the ASIB was only supressed before the 1800's and not completely abolished, there is a chance an alternative society of like-minded interests could exist. If general population density and size are taken into account and weighed against that of the ASIB at the time, its probable to conclude that there is in-fact some remaining influence.

Weishaupt's vision of an end justified by means is obviously strikingly similar to that of Hitler. There is much talk in the CT world of a relationship between Crowley and Hitler, but I fail to see a definitive resemblance between the words and actions of the two, although it does put at least 2 possible candidates up for some sort of "head spot".

If each of these two "Secret Societies" each have a single group below them, each will now have 2 factions. If those groups splinter... 2=4. 3=6. 4=16. 5=120. Note the growth in size at 5. A difference of 104 whereas the previous jump was only 10. Exponentials.

I still fail to see a definite "Illuminati" anywhere of modern influence, yet I do believe there is a group somewhere that does follow the "Ends justify the means" philosophy. The whole "War on Terror" can definitely fit into that category. We will all be safer if the agents at the airport can see through our clothes and our phones can be tapped. That is a blatant "Ends justified by means" scenario and begins to fulfill the "NWO" vision of Weishaupt.

Its highly unlikely that the entire U.S. government could be under the influence of this society. The president has no real power, but the Senate and Congress do, although it has been documented that Roosevelt knew of the possibility of Hitlers plans in fall of 43'.

Its hard to reason-out the possibility of the Fed Reserve funding the candidacy of "Illuminati" politicians, but there is no proof. Given the exponential growth of general population and Wesihaupts understanding of the "Law of Fives" ...

Wait...

Republicans and Democrats?

Time for another J.....

[Eyeforalie]

is there, somewhere, an accurate list of the said religions of current Senate and Congress chair holders?

[Cogburn]

is there, somewhere, an accurate list of the said religions of current Senate and Congress chair holders?

http://www.adherents.com/adh_congress.html

Covers up to the 109th Congress.

[Cogburn]

You know, there's something we haven't considered.

We've been considering that a group of world controllers would be all in one group.

What if they were members of different groups, but it was their common membership between them that linked them together?

* Politics - Bohemian Grove
* Commerce - The Bildeberger Group
* Society - The Club of Rome

Anyone have any membership rosters from the same year for all three groups?

[mojo]

Anything will do as a jumping off point for research, so don’t disqualify your links or information just because it’s goofy.

because i said so. *shrugs* it's the normal response at most other CT sites.



My opinion is that the Illuminati are gone and the constant usage of their name only serves to obscure the true secret societies operating within our midst and intent on designs of control and self-interest.



that pretty much nails it afaic.
i would add that i think the usage of the word "illuminati" by most CT'ers (those that do little research) is mostly done so through ignoraance. "illuminati" for them is a simple catch cry to instill dread and incredulous belief. (lol)
i wouldn't be surprised if both the "NWO and Illuminati" are terms regularly spread around by 'others" to focus the spotlight away from themselves, however i don't have evidence for that, just an inkling.

like you i'm sure there are other secret societies in existence, even some quite old ones. (i do have one particular one in mind but prefer not to reveal anything just yet).

nice OP cog.

[Cogburn]

like you i'm sure there are other secret societies in existence, even some quite old ones. (i do have one particular one in mind but prefer not to reveal anything just yet).

What's with that teaser?

[mojo]

What's with that teaser?

haha...you happened to pick up on something i've been researching for a few weeks, and i missed this thread when you first posted it.
i'll definately add to it when i've got something to post that i'm comfortable with as far as historical accuracy is concerned. :)

[Cogburn]

haha...you happened to pick up on something i've been researching for a few weeks, and i missed this thread when you first posted it.
i'll definately add to it when i've got something to post that i'm comfortable with as far as historical accuracy is concerned. :)

Oh that's too good... you could always just post it and let us help you cross the T's and dot the I's.

:)

[anarch]

You know, there's something we haven't considered.

We've been considering that a group of world controllers would be all in one group.

What if they were members of different groups, but it was their common membership between them that linked them together?

* Politics - Bohemian Grove
* Commerce - The Bildeberger Group
* Society - The Club of Rome

Anyone have any membership rosters from the same year for all three groups?


Why would it be any other way? Ahhh this is one of those types of conspiracies I do not follow. Its like Aliens, Nobody will be able to prove its real till you got a dead one in a jar, and even then their will be doubters.
Because if such an organization IS real then it would definitely have its hands in the media.

As for the membership roosters.. I have not looked recently although I have seen some Grove members are also Bildebreg members are also a few of them CFR members. There are pics and vids to match up some of this. The club of Rome? You mean like KOC or Legatus? I would not know anything about Rome connections. Never looked.

........................
4 Mojo

When it comes to fraternals I like to use the term fraternals. Not illuminati or NWO because both terms are misleading. What is true is that fraternals work together. The closer the brotherly bonds the more willing to work they are. Meaning Masons will help masons where ever but they will help folks from their own lodge alot more. This is especially fucked when powerful fraternal groups like the elougians do what they do.

IS there some super secret "illuminati" group that has like one member in every fraternal organization? Again fuck if I know and fuck if I care. Whether it is true or not fraternal leadership in society is a fact. Intelligence and leadership skills are not required. George Bush is a great example of that.

..............................................
Hey cog have you not heard? Palin is out. She has joined Fox News.

[Cogburn]

What is true is that fraternals work together. The closer the brotherly bonds the more willing to work they are. Meaning Masons will help masons where ever but they will help folks from their own lodge alot more. This is especially fucked when powerful fraternal groups like the elougians do what they do. This is no different than Jews, Muslims, Catholics, the Lions Club, the Rotary Club and the Knights of Columbus.

Are you a member of the congregation of a church? Same thing: they help out the less fortunate members to an extent greater than that which they would someone who was not a member of the congregation.

Specifically for the two groups to claimed membership: no masonic function occurs without the Pledge of Allegiance, and the O.T.O. oaths required similar devotions to the United States of America.

If the oaths are what drive the organizations as you suggest, such adherence to nationalism kinda fucks that whole way of looking at situation from the get-go.

[guinnessford]

hope mojo spills something good.

in beleiving all things evolve to survive, maybe cfr, tri-lat, and others are just regionized versions of what used to be?

like the local moose lodge, if you will.

being most frats only have a secret higher level, things may never point to what the truth is.

money and power being the top prize of it all, it would seem they have almost won their quest.

[Eyeforalie]

I think we need a crash-course on the ASIB philosophy. I'll get on it tonight or tomorrow.

[guinnessford]

ill read what you find, can never know too much.

im half ass looking too, but got some things to do

[theeindiee]

I met with the Secret Chiefs last night... and they told me that you are bunch of BIG FAT PHONEYYYSSS!!!!!

They also told me to tell you to say Hello to your mother for them. They had a fun gangbang last week.

[guinnessford]

I met with the Secret Chiefs last night.

b.e. and hisil?

[Eyeforalie]

Does anyone here know what the AISB actually accomplished?

They infiltrated both parties running for office at the time, supposedly. Then they were disbanded. Supposedly.

Weishaupt may have been bent on a New World Order, but really didn't do much. The French had their revolution, and were then also squashed.

So who would know the most about the Illuminati's tactics and practices? The ones who beat them. The Government.

As I stated earlier, I'm sure a faction or 120 still exist and have made some impact on society but I also believe in Government disinformation. Is it possible that the Government and the "Illuminati"-likened members of influential posture in the US purposely spread CT and disinfo to keep steer freethinking individuals away from occult persuasion? Id bet the ranch. The last thing a Government wants is a bunch of Illuminated kids fucking up what they try so hard to create.

[Cogburn]

That's kinda the thing. They never really went anywhere.

Adolph (Friedrich Ludwig) Freiherr Knigge

Born on 16.10.1752 in Bredenbeck near Hanover, died on 6.5.1796 in Bremen.

After education by Hofmeister Knigge studied law at Göttingen 1769-72. In 1772, he received an appointment as a courtier and assessor of the war and domain box office in Kassel. In 1777 he was Weimar Chamberlain. His work for the Illuminati (1780-84) and his commitment to the realization of human rights were living in precarious economic circumstances gentry among his aristocratic patrons come into the twilight, and finally led to loss of property and forced him to adapt to civic life. It was not until 1790, the etiquette was now seriously ill with the position as the head man and Scholarch of Bremen, the possibility of a life free from financial worries.Project Gutenberg accounts his Illuminati membership lasted only 4 years.

Because their ideals were viewed as so radical to 18th century power structures, they were wiped out as soon as they were noticed.

Encyclopedia Britannica (15th edition. Vol. 22, p. 223, 2b.) states that certain cells of Illuminati fled to Italy in the 18th century, but never amounted to anything as they were never heard from again.


Illuminate d'Avignon in France were wiped out during the Revolution, as you said.

Illuminated Theosophists of London merged into the London Theosophical Society. While the details are vague, the suggestion is that the Illuminated Theosophists simply stopped doing their thing and joined the Society. This happened in the same year that Knigge lost his affection for Weishaupt and left the Order, and it's hard to ignore the coincidence.

The Concordists were the Prussian branch, but they were stomped out when their political aspirations became known.

Theodore Russ attempted to revive the Illuminati prior to his establishment of the O.T.O., however it gave it up for the latter.

There's two or three modern pretenders to the throne... but ... um ... yeah. Kinda makes you giggle.

http://svmmvmbonvm.org/jehosu/
http://www.illuminati-order.com/
http://www.ordeniluminati.net/

[Cogburn]

Hehe... Found the Italian Illuminati lodges ... maybe.

About 15 years after the Illuminati enter Italy, you see the beginnings of the Carbonari, "The Charcoal Burners," espousing Illuminati philosophy from no where.


(Italian dialect: Charcoal Burner), in early 19th-century Italy, member of a secret society (the Carbonaria) advocating liberal and patriotic ideas. The group provided the main source of opposition to the conservative regimes imposed on Italy by the victorious allies after the defeat of Napoleon in 1815. Their influence prepared the way for the Risorgimento movement, which resulted in Italian unification (1861).

The origins and even the political program of the Carbonari are matters of conjecture. The group may have begun as a mutual aid society in France and spread to Italy with the Napoleonic army, or it may have been an offshoot of the Freemasons, an anticlerical, philanthropic secret society widespread in the 18th century. The first lodges of the Carbonari were formed in southern Italy in the early 1800s. They acquired a republican and patriotic character, opposing Joachim Murat, the Napoleonic ruler of Naples. The movement spread northward into the Marches and the Romagna by 1814. In general, the Carbonari favoured constitutional and representative government and wished to protect Italian interests against foreigners. But they never had a single program: some wanted a republic, others a limited monarchy; some favoured a federation, others a unitary Italian state.

Like other secret societies of the age, the Carbonari had an initiation ceremony, complex symbols, and a hierarchical organization. Their members were recruited mainly from the nobility, officeholders, and small landowners. After 1815 the lodges spread rapidly among those dissatisfied with the post-Napoleonic settlement, especially among the middle classes, which had been favoured under French rule. Although the Carbonari had lodges throughout Italy, their main centres were in central Italy (the Papal States) and in the South (Naples), where the Bourbon Kingdom of the Two Sicilies was restored in 1815 and where they took up a decisively anti-Bourbon attitude. With the help of the army they led the successful Neapolitan revolution of 1820, which forced King Ferdinand I to promise a constitution. This was their most spectacular achievement, but Austrian intervention soon nullified it. Revolts in Bologna, Parma, and Modena in 1831 met with little success. In the same year, Giuseppe Mazzini founded a new movement, Young Italy, with an avowedly national and republican program, and the importance of the Carbonari began to wane.

Outside Italy a similar movement called the Charbonnerie had taken root in France. It participated in outbreaks in 1821, and Lafayette himself condescended to be its head. An international organization called the Charbonnerie Démocratique Universelle continued to operate for a few years after 1830 under the leadership of Filippo Buonarroti (1761–1837), but it achieved little.

If the Carbonari really were the Illuminati ala Weishaupt, then they are the only branch to ever successfully overthrow an existing regime and install a new, republican government. Afterwards, they faded away and perhaps still exist, but they definitely don't give me the "bad guy" vibe.

[guinnessford]

would an organisation have to be evil to mirror them?

thats why i asked the question of how do we know who was on what side.

if theres not a clear history of anything past them being disbanded, besides oral history, its hard to say for me.

maybe the illuminati were the secret defenders of true freedoms....

[Cogburn]

Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry says:

The Order was at first very popular and enrolled no less than two thousand names upon its registers, among whom were some of the most distinguished men of Germany. It extended rapidly into other countries, and its Lodges were to be found in France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Hungary, and Italy. The original design of Illuminism was undoubtedly the elevation of the human race. Knigge, who was one of its most prominent working members, and the author of several of its Degrees, was a religious man, and would never have united with it had its object been, as has been charged, to abolish Christianity. But it cannot be denied, that in process of time abuses had crept into the Institution and that by the influence of unworthy men the system became corrupted; yet the coarse accusations of such writers as Barruel and Robison are known to be exaggerated, and some of them altogether false.

The Conversations-Lexicon, for instance, declares that the s society had no influence whatever on the French Revolution, which is charged upon it by these as well as other writers. But Illuminism came directly and professedly in conflict with the Jesuits and with the Roman Church, whose tendencies were to repress the freedom of thought. The priests became, therefore, its active enemies, and waged war so successfully against it, that on June 22, 1784, the Elector of Bavaria issued an Edict for its suppression. Many of its members were fined or imprisoned, and some, among whom was Weishaupt, were compelled to flee the country. The Edicts of the Elector of Bavaria were repeated in March and August, 1785, and the Order began to decline, so that by the end of the eighteenth century it had ceased to exist. Adopting Freemasonry only as a means for its own more successful propagation, and using it only as incidental to its own organization, it exercised while in prosperity no favorable influence on the Masonic Institution, nor any unfavorable effect on it by its dissolution.

[guinnessford]

Illuminism came directly and professedly in conflict with the Jesuits and with the Roman Church, whose tendencies were to repress the freedom of thought.

against the church.... shit i may be wanting to join.

from whats there, it seems to me that illuminism was "vilified" for being anti religion.

it aint all bad.

[Eyeforalie]

GF-
Weishaupt's philosophy of the NWO was to instill a totalitarianism government body and a unified, secular religion with the purpose of instilling a universally enlightened society. The problem with his thoughts is the whole "ends justify the means" approach to the situation. Take the Guide Stones for example for discussion sake- Reduce the global population to five-hundred thousand. Its easier to enlighten that many versus 8 billion.

Illuminates of Kemet Brazil. (http://svmmvmbonvm.org/aum_muh.html) I found this in one of Cog's previous links, which seems to be an offshoot from ordoilluminatorum.net (linked to) and http://svmmvmbonvm.org (the page I linked from).

These are low. low tech pages. IMO, exactly the way it would be done to fit into the equation of low-key secrecy needed to perpetuate the objectives we think they have. Why call attention with flashy pages? Thats not the point. Right? Anyone they want to have will want to have them...

[guinnessford]

yeah, that im not with.
but from that passage, and lack of a true history, will we ever know what the true purpose was?

things would be so much easier if there was like a marvel comics good guy/bad guy card to reference, huh?

[Cogburn]

Sure, but it doesn't strike me as being world masters, either.

Some junky web pages on the internet being the entry point into a world-girdling conspiracy sounds like something born from X-file fan fic.

[Eyeforalie]

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Illuminati
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/e/ee/Illuminati_01.jpg/250px-Illuminati_01.jpg
;)
AMORC Rosicrucian Order (http://www.rosicrucian.org/newsarchive/2004/09discourse_neff.html)
Rosicrucian Fellowship (http://www.rosicrucian.com/)

From Cog's links.

http://www.hermetics.org/fudosi.html
We know from history that there were earlier attempts to form a "World-Federation of Esoteric Orders and Societies". The famous french (co-) founder of the Martinist Order, Papus

( Gérard Anaclet Vincent Encausse ), organized a convention in Paris in 1908, with the intention to form an Universal Federation, however, the outcome was ineffectual.

Most of the participating Orders and Societies were Masonic organisations. The Esoteric Congress did not really succeed in it's intention, the creation of an "International Esoteric Federation". Although some of the Orders ('L'Ordre Martiniste',' L'Ordre Kabbalistique de la Rose+Croix, and the 'Rite of Memphis-Mizraim) united and established a secretariat in the city of Paris, the organization never really developed, due to the first World War of 1914. Papus died in 1916 ( tuberculosis, contracted in 'the trenches'), and with him 'his dream'.

So that brings us up through the the early 20th century. The Nazi movement is mid 20th...

The foundation of the F.U.D.O.S.I. in Brussels in 1934 caused a reaction within the world of Orders and Fraternities. The F.U.D.O.S.I. claimed to be the protector of all TRUE initiatic Orders and Societies. One can easily imagine the reaction of all the Orders and Fraternities which were not represented at the convention of 1934. Especially Constant Chevillon, head of numerous Orders and successor to Jean Bricaud, was not pleased with the decisions made in Brussels in 1934 (see Part 6 concerning the problems within the Memphis-Misraim Rite). The result of all the hostilities was the foundation of the "FEDERATION UNIVERSELLE DES ORDRES SOCIETES ET FRATERNITES DES INITIES", aka F.U.D.O.F.S.I. This Federation was an alliance mainly between Reuben Swinburne Clymer(*1), head of the FRATERNITATIS ROSAE CRUCIS, and Constant Chevillon, head of the ORDRE MARTINISTE DE LYON.
..................................................
The following Orders and Societies were represented on the first convention in 1939 :

1 L'ORDRE MARTINISTE-MARTINEZISTE de LYON

2 L'EGLISE GNOSTIQUE UNIVERSELLE

3 ORDER OF KNIGHT MASONS ELUS COHEN OF THE UNIVERSE

4 THE ANTIENT AND PRIMITIVE RITE OF MEMPHIS MIZRAIM

5 ORDRE DE SAINT GRAAL

6 ORDO TEMPLI ORIENTIS (Switzerland*2)

7 FRATERNITAS ROSICRUCIANA ANTIQUA

8 FRATERNITAS ROSAE CRUCIS

9 ORDRE KABBALISTIQUE DE LA ROSE CROIX (different lineage*3)

10 RITE ECOSSAIS RECTIFIE

11 BROTHERHOOD OF THE ILLUMINED BRETHREN OF THE ROSE-CROIX

[Eyeforalie]

Im not sure if Im way off base with that...Im digesting as fast as I can. Time to burn one down :)

[Eyeforalie]

The one thing all these groups have in common is Hermetics.

The Illuministic philosophy was viewed as a threat by Washington and ilk, and seen as a threat to their version of what life should be and has since been wrongly portrayed. I was emphasizing "Suppressed" in the wrong connotation earlier. The suppression was needed in the form of killing or exiling members of these groups in order to keep control of their power. Weishaupt didn't want a totalitarianism rule. Thats completely against Illuministic philosophy-

"DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW! LOVE ABOVE ALL! LOVE UNDER WILL!"

...as it goes. And what have they accomplished? Nothing noted. Its just rumored that they did some things. There is absolutely no proof. No one has reliable copies of Weishaupts plans. Its not that they "don't exist" in the public eye, its that they don't exist as what they are portrayed as. Its all lies.

I mentioned earlier that Weishaupt realized the importance of numbers and exponentials. Witchcraft, Templar Knights, Masons, OTO, Golden Dawn, Hitler, Crowley, The Beatles...It does spread and is around. The fact of the matter is that it is enlightenment which is being suppressed by governments who need spread as much disinformation as possible to keep control of materialistic wealth. Weishaupt made enough of an impact on Washington that he was exiled, but he knew that as the population grew so would the influence of Illuministic philosophies-exponentially.

The Illuminati doesn't exist because it never [i]did[i/] exist.

[Eyeforalie]

Double post.

[Cogburn]

+1

[Ra187]

good work young padawon....very interesting

[Ducky]

Time for a new topic in this gendre...me thinks.

[Eyeforalie]

Suggestions?

[Ducky]

Suggestions?

Other than the past shit we've been experiencing (mostly due to the recent events) I think we should take the bull by the horns and go forward with whatever tickles our fancy at this point.

I'm sick to fuckin death of what's been going on lately in our forum.

I've been watching for a long time.

Let's get past the recent trivial shit and move foreward.

Start anew.

Nothing wrong with that right?

Well?

Let's do it.

You and I included.

ZSM3w1v-A_Y

[Eyeforalie]

I agree. I working on a few things.

Id like to put some time into the topics though and think a lot of us have reached the point that 'normal' CT is a bit...old. Im sure if we collectively brainstorm we can come up with some topics that interest us enough to get us back on track.

First, what is your opinion on this topic, Ducks?

[Ra187]

i also agree....lately the forum has gone kinda weird...IMO we are stuck in the doldrums...i think we should all get back on track and stop with all the trivial bullshit. i know i havent been here as long as most of you but i like this place and its people and i just don't wanna see this place travel down that bad road.

[bitdrops]

Hi folks, i stumbled across this forum yesterday and it looks like a place where serious efforts are made to cut through the crap. And a healthy atmosphere, too.


Illuminism came directly and professedly in conflict with the Jesuits and with the Roman Church, whose tendencies were to repress the freedom of thought.

against the church.... shit i may be wanting to join.

from whats there, it seems to me that illuminism was "vilified" for being anti religion.

it aint all bad.

I think this is exactly right, and it is also the reason why we hear so much about the Illuminati as scapegoats. You can track the CTs about the Bavarian Illuminati back to their contemporary jesuits like Robison and Barruel and they are through the centuries most always written by reactionaries who fear the ideas - and rightfully so, look what happened to the influence of the jesuits since the late 18th century.

From my studies i've seen no indication that they were "occult" at all. I found that Weishaupt was rabidly anti "superstition", he was more like James Randi than John Dee. He (resp. Knigge) formed the Order after the rules of the Jesuits, to beat them with their own weapons.

The idea that they were an occult order bend on totalitarian world domination seems to be based on nothing but religious fundie CTs cooked up with the writings of R. A. Wilson.

Anyway, one key element to investigate would be the alleged meeting between Weishaupt and Rothschild in Frankfurt - this is where the "evil intentions" come into play and i've seen not a shred of historical evidence for it, while the documentation about the Bavarian Illuminati (in German Archives) is excellent.

Me thinks their goals are in serious trouble since the early 1980s.

[skunk]

Welcome to AmKon bitdrops.

Would you care to share your research from the german archives about the bavarian illuminati?

[bitdrops]

Yo skunk,

i wasn't in the archives myself but i'm german and read some secondary academic material (after immensely enjoying "Illuminatus!"), for example the doctoral thesis "Johann Adam Weishaupt's Contribution to the Pedagogy of Illuminatism (http://www.db-thueringen.de/servlets/DerivateServlet/Derivate-3064/Pawlowski.pdf)" (PDF, german) by Peggy Pawlowski, mentioned in this article (http://www.bavarian-illuminati.info/?p=332) about one important body of evidence, the "Schwedenkiste".

In the PDF (page 253ff) you'll find an extensive Bibliography.

[skunk]

I can't read German, care to give us a summary?

[Lexion]

I can't read

Fixt

(I HAD to)

[bitdrops]

@skunk: The goal was broad education, not dumbing down of "the masses".

[Cogburn]

Uh....

James Randi is the opposite end of the spectrum from John Dee. Dee talked to angels and hung out with psychics.

You need to check your facts.

[guinnessford]

James Randi is the opposite end of the spectrum from John Dee. Dee talked to angels and hung out with psychics.

i do that too.
acid and shrooms usually precede this.

[bitdrops]

Uh....

James Randi is the opposite end of the spectrum from John Dee. Dee talked to angels and hung out with psychics.

You need to check your facts.


Exactly, and on this spectrum Adam Weishaupt was more like Randi than Dee. That's a fact.

[Cogburn]

Exactly, and on this spectrum Adam Weishaupt was more like Randi than Dee. That's a fact.

I misread your post, fair enough. I disagree with your categorization, however.

Freemasonry had only been instituted less than 100 years prior to Weishaupt's initiation. While it might be easy for 21st century Americans to dismiss the occult symbolism of the Craft, it would be significantly more difficult for someone living in the 18th century. Not to mention that this is in direct contradiction to the surviving passages of Weishaupt's own writing.

What is your research that leads you to such a conclusion?

By the way, the Birchers were the ones that initially propagated the Weishaupt rumor in the mid 20th century. R.A. Wilson's addition to the rumor was that he killed George Washington and replaced him.

[bitdrops]

Freemasonry had only been instituted less than 100 years prior to Weishaupt's initiation. While it might be easy for 21st century Americans to dismiss the occult symbolism of the Craft, it would be significantly more difficult for someone living in the 18th century. Not to mention that this is in direct contradiction to the surviving passages of Weishaupt's own writing.

What is your research that leads you to such a conclusion?

I also read parts of his book "Die Leuchte des Diogenes" (Diogenes Lamp), published in 1804 (way after he got rid of the Washington sock ;)) According to wikipedia, an english translation was published in 2008 by the Masonic Book Club - the german original is on google books (http://books.google.de/books?id=pmk8AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=weishaupt+leuchte+des+diogenes&source=bl&ots=0G5clDbwzJ&sig=HW6KDCTIZGCB8wOPeNwgfDgRcTk&hl=de&ei=9sNUS_aeCcqLkAXVzKngCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false).

I reread the first 40 pages just now. It is a typical text of a product of german enlightenment. He basically agrees with Kant's just published categorical imperative, which says "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

He explains that for living up to this ideal, people have to have a reasonable idea about what the historical place of their society is and where it should go from here on. He remarks that there is a contradiction between the way people look back at the past and see the ancestors as backwards and silly in their morals, while the same people complain that the current morals they live under are terrible and everybody is unhappy.

He sees the reason for this unhappiness (and progress far below potential) in people acting in a egotistical way and rationalizing it with with the alleged overall rotten morals ("what can i change"), not realizing that it is in their own self-interest to act with an understanding of the workings of the whole organism of society, and the intention to better it.

He complains that "a hundred schools and churches" pretend to have the ultimate wisdom, based on irrational dogmata, and defend a status quo they don't understand and refuse to think through.

[Hazelnut]

+1

[Cogburn]

The Masonic Book Club (http://masonicbookclub.org/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1&zenid=5247346f2de5e6cdc2d9d48dd5bfaee5) does indeed sell the book.

Your response, however, takes such philosophies out of context. Diogenes' Lamp is not a treatise against enlightenment or spirituality, it is a criticism of modes of enlightenment offered by western culture within his time, with the notable exception of his own.

It is used as the justification for the works he published prior, and to which I eluded in my original post. Take, for instance, a work published in 1788 that is available through Gallica, "Discours Philosophique sur les Frayeurs de la Mort" (A Discourse on the Philosophy of the Fear of Death), which in the forward the translator writes about the reaction of the establishment to the AISB:

He has been slandered and accused by a cabal bent on persecuting the friends of virtue and truth; put out the torch of reason, and retain men under the despotism of the most shameful ignorance of having promoted and preached irreligion, atheism, regicide, the assassination of spreading the principles the most immoral, have encouraged the people to rise against their masters, children had to shake the yoke of paternal authority, and to have sowed discord in families.

If claims of irreligion and atheism were to be considered slanderous, one may not then say that Weishaupt considered himself to be as devoid of the spiritual as James Randi.

Weishaupt was, in fact, making the argument for the superiority of his own method of enlightenment over all others by comparative analysis.

[bitdrops]

If claims of irreligion and atheism were to be considered slanderous, one may not then say that Weishaupt considered himself to be as devoid of the spiritual as James Randi.


Did you translate that quote into english? I see nothing but a blank cover page on page 2 at your link, and my french isn't good enough to understand it anyway.

As I understand it in context, Weishaupt (who translated his own work into french) informed the readers about the "cabal bent on persecuting the friends of virtue and truth", who "slandered and accused" him of, among other things, "having promoted and preached irreligion, atheism..." and "the assassination of spreading the principles (of) the most immoral."

That's what is in the jesuit books of the time founding the Bavarian Illuminati CTs.

edit: You are right about Randi, but it's a broad spectrum from him to Dee.

[Cogburn]

As I understand it in context, Weishaupt (who translated his own work into french) informed the readers about the "cabal bent on persecuting the friends of virtue and truth", who "slandered and accused" him of, among other things, "having promoted and preached irreligion, atheism...".

That's what is in the jesuit books of the time founding the Bavarian Illuminati CTs.
The quoted text was from the Foreward.

However you are correct, but consider the context of such an argument. If Weishaupt were not offering a competitive method of spiritual enlightenment, there would have been no need for such a prompted response from Jesuits in opposition.

It is the consideration of such terminology as "slanderous" that indicates that Weishaupt's designs were indeed spiritually motivated, and specifically not in the manner of being antithetical to them.

[bitdrops]

The quoted text was from the Foreward.

However you are correct, but consider the context of such an argument. If Weishaupt were not offering a competitive method of spiritual enlightenment, there would have been no need for such a prompted response from Jesuits in opposition.

It is the consideration of such terminology as "slanderous" that indicates that Weishaupt's designs were indeed spiritually motivated, and specifically not in the manner of being antithetical to them.

I edited my post and added "the assassination of spreading the principles (of) the most immoral." to illustrate his style. He is ranting and mocking the bigots.

Randi: "Look guys, Pat Robertson called me an atheist on his shitty network".

That way.

[Cogburn]

I edited my post and added "the assassination of spreading the principles (of) the most immoral." to illustrate his style. He is ranting and mocking the bigots.

Randi: "Look guys, Pat Robertson called me an atheist on his shitty network".

That way.
Well that is a trait that I share in common with them, if you put it in that vein. :)

[anarch]

What happens

[century]

Project Camelot recently received 11 pages of information from an insider who was physically present at a meeting of Senior Masons in the City of London in 2005. What was discussed is chilling to the bone.

What our source reports is this:

-- There is a planned Third World War, which will be nuclear and biological. Our source believes that this is on track to be initiated within the next 18-24 months.

-- It is planned to begin with a strike by Israel on Iran. Either Iran or China will be provoked into a nuclear response. After a brief nuclear exchange, there will be a ceasefire. The world will be thrown into fear and chaos - all carefully engineered.

-- The extreme state of tension will be used to justify heavy social and military controls in all western first world nations. Plans are already in place for that.

-- During the nuclear ceasefire, there is planned to be a covert release of biological weapons. These will initially be targeted against the Chinese. As our source chillingly told us, "China will catch a cold". Biological warfare will spread further, to the west. Infrastructure will be critically weakened.

-- This is intended to be just the beginning. After this, a full nuclear exchange would be triggered: the "real" war, with widespread destruction and loss of life. Our source tells us that the planned population reduction through these combined means is 50%. He heard this figure stated in the meeting.

This horrific scenario has been planned for generations. The first two world wars were part of the set-up for this final apocalypse - as is the centralization of financial resources that was precipitated with the equally well-planned financial collapse of October 2008.

As if all this were not enough, our source speculates this is all set against the backdrop of a coming "geophysical event" - the same kind of event as was experienced by our ancestors approximately 11,500 years ago. If this event occurs - not necessarily expected in 2012, but sometime in the next decade - it would destroy civilization as we know it, dwarfing even the effects of a nuclear war.

I asked the question to our source: If there's an expected catastrophe, then why initiate a Third World War? His answer, for the first time to me, made terrible sense.

The real goal, he explained, is to set up the post-catastrophic world. To ensure that this "New World" [note the term] is the one the controllers want, totalitarian control structures need to be in place when the catastrophe occurs - with an excuse that the populace will accept and demand them. Martial law in the right, carefully chosen countries before the catastrophe occurs will enable the "right" people to survive and prosper in the post-catastrophic world, and the beginning of the next 11,500 year cycle. What may have been carefully planned on a covert global scale, for the last several generations, is nothing less than who will inherit the Earth.

Who are the "right" people? The white Caucasians. This may be why the name of this project is The Anglo-Saxon Mission. Hence the justification for the planned genocide of the Chinese people - so that the New World is inherited by "us", not "them".

Our source was not informed about the planned fate of the second and third world countries such as those in South America, Africa and Asia. But he presumes that these would be allowed to fend for themselves and probably not survive well - or maybe not at all. The totalitarian military governments of the western, white, people are set to be the inheritors.

This is a plan to evil, so racist, so diabolical, so huge, that it almost defies belief. But it all aligns with what many commentators, researchers and whistleblowing insiders have been identifying for some years now. For me personally, it's the clearest picture yet of why the world is the way it is, and why the secrets are protected so fiercely: it may be all about racial supremacy. The Fourth Reich is alive and well.

Astonishingly, our source was not pessimistic. He stressed, as do we and many other researchers and commentators, that consciousness is awakening rapidly all over the planet and that THESE PLANNED EVENTS ARE NOT INEVITABLE. If ever there was a reason to work closely together to raise awareness of the real threat to us all, this is it.

Watch this video, listen carefully to the strong message of hope and encouragement, and spread it far and wide. We plan to create subtitles in many languages - including Chinese. We stand for the potential magnificence of a united humanity that knows no racial boundaries or distinctions. Whether or not the catastrophe occurs - and many, including ourselves, maintain that it will not - we must co-create our own future, claim our power, and do whatever we can to alert people to the dangers around us... so that we can be stronger together, for the sake of our descendants and for the heritage of all living beings on Planet Earth.

jnBO6Y3MHk4

[Cogburn]

Okay... hold up. I know when I'm baited.

Here's the transcript of the interview in question so you don't have to suffer through that video. (http://projectcamelot.org/anglo_saxon_mission_interview_transcript.html)

By the way, when did Bill Ryan start to look like my grandmother?

The Grand Lodge of England has long been used as a place to meet the mighty, and given the existence of the P2 lodge in Italy, one cannot simply dismiss the story easily.

Anyway, here's the part where Deep Throat lays out how he got into the meeting. This is important because it is upon this sequence of events that the rest of the information is validated.

B: Okay. Is this all fundamentally Masonic?

W: Absolutely. There's no question about that. Everybody is vetted through that process, through the Masonic process, and then they get to meet one another.

That's something that people need to understand. There are levels in Masonry. You know, most Masons don't really know anything at all, and they're out there doing good work for the most part and they get the benefit of a kind of "club," as it were. But that goes through various levels. Some people call it by "degrees" or whatever. But it's a Who's Who. That is -- who can be trusted, who can be brought together, who's holding power, who's likely to develop more power.

And these people attract one another and they get together because they all have a single cause. But it's not exactly like a Masonic cause, you know. It's something that can be likened to it, but not the same as it.

B: Could you explain that a little more clearly?

W: Well, I think the best way to explain this is: Masonry, is to my knowledge, is just a vehicle for these people. It allows them to come together quietly, in secret, behind closed doors, get to know one another, feel safe and secure knowing confidently that what's said in these meetings go no further than those meetings. So it's got that Masonic element to it, but this goes to an entirely different level altogether.

Now, the meeting that I'm talking about, I don't even consider these people to be a significant level -- significant enough for me at the time -- but they were discussing things that were already agreed upon and planned and dictated. They were really getting together to share information, to find out how well it was going and what was needed to keep it on track.

B: So things had already been decided at an even higher level than this. Is that what you're saying?

W: That was very clear. From what I heard, they weren't a decision-making group. They were like an action group. They were people who needed to come together now and then to discuss together what needs to be done, or what is getting done, and what should be getting done. And then they disperse and go back and do what they need to do, as a result of these meetings.

B: Okay. And you attended one meeting?

W: Only one.

B: And in what capacity did you attend this meeting?

W: By sheer accident! I thought it was a normal three-monthly meeting because I looked at the e-mail list, which had familiar names on it, and I was on it. But by that time, because of the senior position I held within the City, I just thought it was quite normal for me to be earmarked for this kind of meeting.

So when I went to the meeting, it wasn't the same venue as before. It was a livery company venue, which is quite unusual, but not too unusual to wonder why. I went to this meeting and it was not the meeting that I was expecting. I believe I was invited... it was because of the position I held and because they believed that, like themselves, I was one of them.

B: So you were included because they already knew you. You were regarded as a safe pair of hands.

W: Absolutely. Yes. I was a safe pair of hands. I was a do-er. I was one of the people who, at my level within the organization, got things done.

B: Okay.

W: And I was regarded as that. Lots had known me for some time, even the most senior figures within them. I mean, it was first-name terms, that sort of thing. And I'd also been regularly invited to various functions, social functions, and things like that where I became familiar with some of them and some of them became very familiar with me.

So it was easy-going, quite professional, nothing out of the ordinary, although bells started to ring about what they were up to and what they were doing and the kind of decisions that they were making, which by and large, I ignored. It seems unusual, but there was a part of me that wanted to ignore what was going on.

B: Are you saying that in this particular meeting we're talking about, the people who attended the meeting were familiar to you, largely, and you'd attended other meetings with them before; but this was a meeting with a difference because it was in a different location and with a different agenda, although the delegates to the meeting were basically the same group? Is that what you're saying?

W: No, not exactly. I knew most of the attendees at the meeting, but not all. There were about 25 or 30 people were at the meeting. And it was looked rather informal, you know, people getting to know one another, re-acquainting themselves as people do. There was nothing unusual about that. It was when the subjects started to come up that my astonishment started to rise at what was being said.

Whoever dreamed this up created some logical flaws.

This guy sets himself up to be a good little worker bee for the conspiracy that controls the world... literally, The Powers That Be.

He was allowed into this most secret of sanctums to meet the Controllers of the World, amongst whom no one else is permitted without taking these masonic oaths, but this guy is no problem.

Obviously the oaths are there for a reason because the first motherfucker they let in there without it spilled the beans, eh?

Where's the 11 pages of documentation from a meeting where "there were no notes taken -- nothing"? Conspicuously missing from the PC website.

Not to mention the whole thing is bookended with the attribution that this plan had "failed" and that it was no longer going to come into fruition in this manner. With just such an attribution no predictions made need to come true, no proof need ever be supplied... because it failed. Basically it could very well be simple fiction.

If you read the whole interview, you see it devolves into exactly the same kind of new age hokum that PC has been pushing for years, almost verbatim. It even ends on a positive note. You can almost hear "We shall not be moved" faintly rising in the background when you read the last few passages.

Notice the nod in there to my dear, old friend "doctor" Bill Deagle? Puh-leeze.

I love a good masonic conspiracy as much as the next guy, but this is just weak.

[century]

Here's the transcript of the interview in question so you don't have to suffer through that video. (http://projectcamelot.org/anglo_saxon_mission_interview_transcript.html) Okay... hold up. I know when I'm baited. I love a good masonic conspiracy as much as the next guy, but this is just weak.

Same old shit:grey:

[Cogburn]

You post a video and then offer nothing further to the discussion when the content is refuted.

Same old shit? No kidding.

[century]

You post a video and then offer nothing further to the discussion when the content is refuted.

Same old shit? No kidding.

I left your dick dangling?!

[Cogburn]

No, just another drive by video from century.

It's not like you'd be expected to actually render an opinion or anything.

You know, contribute and whatnot.

EDIT: Ugh, you made me sound like BE.

[century]

http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/DEMONS/baphomet.jpg

What video in question? There were no questions from I, just a simple drive by video. Its the same old shit but ideal for this thread, although I appreciate your bate-munching you will have to wait for someone else to agree with you.

[Cogburn]

I prefer it when folks disagree.

That's the way conversations happen.

Thanks for the three sentences.

[century]

I prefer it when folks disagree.

That's the way conversations happen.

Thanks for the three sentences.

Lucifer could have put it better. What would the world be like if folks didnt disagree, or if the secret fraternities of the earth weren't steering the world with order out of Chaos and fear. A utopia here on Earth couldn't manifest itself with a species such as we humans.

If you prefer that folks disagree than you prefer chaos in a sense, but I have a hard time believing you are telling the truth in that statement.

[century]

four sentences, Ya!!!

[Cogburn]

Agrees on what? Who decides what should be agreed upon? It sounds like you're arguing for your own brand of New World Order.

Chaos isn't something that is to be preferred or scorned: it is the nature of existence. It is only the haughty machinations of human beings that attempt to place some semblance of order upon the universe.

I don't think you know what I'm about at all, not that it matters for the purposes of this thread. What I think and what I do doesn't change empirical fact or deductive reasoning.

[century]

Chaos isn't something that is to be preferred or scorned: it is the nature of existence. It is only the haughty machinations of human beings that attempt to place some semblance of order upon the universe.

Chaos to me is not the nature of the universe or existence, but the current nature of man.

[Cogburn]

They need not be mutually exclusive.

[century]

They need not be mutually exclusive.

Both are part of the complexity of the universe, which is a conglomerate of functionally related simplicities.

[Cogburn]

Is that chaos or order?

[century]

Is that chaos or order?


Could be a breakdown in language:D, because the universe represents the geometric embodiment of nothing? Apparently It came from nothing therefore it is? If it was created it has order, but the machine can break down likewise it can be fixed, so what is chaos?
How do we know, only Cog can tell.

[Cogburn]

By the end of the soliloquy, Hamlet decided that if things weren't they way that they are that it wouldn't necessarily be better, simply different.

Perspective is a bitch, and that has little to do with me.

[mojo]

*sigh*

another thread i promised to add to and never got around to it.

i havent forgotten cog. :)

[theeindiee]

Pleased to meet you.... hope you guess my name.

[century]

*sigh*

another thread i promised to add to and never got around to it.

i havent forgotten cog. :)

I would be interested to hear your impute.:cyclopsani: indiee not so much

[Cogburn]

We're all waiting for it, but mojo is a bitch.

[Royal]

My theory about the illumanati...

They were people for truth and education, and against Religious and Royal rule. Illuminati are no longer in existence because we don't get beheaded or hanged for having different beliefs than our religious or government leaders. We don't have to hide anymore...

[century]

The Dulce Book - Chapter 4:
DULCE NEW MEXICO & THE NAZI CONNECTION
by "Branton" (http://toddjumper.com/dulce/)

FURTHER COMMENTS ON GERMAN-BAVARIAN NAZISM, THE CIA, THE NEW WORLD ORDER,
ETC.

Sirhan Sirhan, the man who was convicted of murdering Senator Robert
Kennedy, had a psychiatrist by the name of 'Dr. Diamond' who maintained
CIA-fascist connections. Also Sirhan's attorney Grant Cooper, who seemingly
made very little effort to defend Sirhan, had CIA-fascist ties as well,
leading some to believe that Sirhan was used as a hypno-programmed
"Manchurian Candidate" by a fascist cabal, a cabal that murdered not only
Robert Kennedy but also his brother President John F. Kennedy as well.
Following World War II over 2,000 German 'immigrants' to the U.S. became
members of the American Psychiatric Association, which was involved in GUN
CONTROL lobbying. In light of the collaboration between the Bavarian Thule
Society and the Bavarian Illuminati, and the influx of Thule-backed
fifth-column Nazi SS agents into U.S. Intelligence, with the help of
Illuminati-backed Oil barrens like the German-immigrant Aryan-supremacist
Rockefellers and their corporate oil-chemical empires [EXXON, ARCO, ZAPATA,
etc.], and in light of the deadly intent of both 'Bavarian' societies to
establish a "New World Order" as Adolph Hitler laid out in his second book
"The New World Order", one has to wonder WHY so many German nationals would
join an association that dealt directly with the study of people's MINDS?

This is not to say that Germans themselves are to blame, it is rather the
German-Bavarian FASCISTS who are behind the New World Order agenda, and
especially the Germanic Black Nobility families who claim direct
descent from the early leaders of the [un]Holy Roman Empire of Germany,
which rose from the remnant of the Roman Empire and which kept Europe in an
iron grip throughout the Dark Ages. These were the "13 families" who had
ruled vast financial empires in Europe for nearly 1500 years. They are once
again trying to take control of the world as they attempted to do with World
Wars I and II, provoke a global war that will result in the massive
'de-population' of Blacks, Asians, Jews, Slavs, and many others -- excepting
of course for the 'Aryan elite' class. In essence they intend to finish what
Adolph Hitler set out to accomplish. The threat then is from 'Nazism' or
National 'Socialism', whether it be European, British or American or whether
it be political, corporate or occult National Socialism.

Some have reported that the sudden 'fall' of the Soviet states and the
Berlin wall was planned in advance as part of an agenda to merge the East
and the West into a so called communist-socialist / democratic-socialist New
World Order. East and West Berlin would be at the forefront for the
reunification of Eastern and Western Europe and in turn -- they hope -- the
rest of the world. Germany has also led the way for European unification by
establishing an 'open border' policy and encouraging other European
countries to do the same. This may sound benign on the outside but
considering the facts it may be a ruse to 'unify' Europe under German
control, which was also Adolph Hitler's goal. However in this case the
unification is being accomplished through economic means rather than
military means.

The control is still in Germany but it is more subtle. The Third Reich
established German MILITARY control of Europe. The "European Economic
Community" or E.E.C. established ECONOMIC control. In most cases, in this
world it is the ECONOMIC forces which control 'governments'. Sad, but true.
Notice how the term "Economic" has now been removed, and the New World Order
has been re-named the "European Community". Very clever! In other words the
unification is no longer just along economic lines but is becoming
increasingly political, since the member nations have been pressured into
submitting to an E.C. constitution along MORE THAN mere economic lines.

France and England have been pulled into this alliance, in spite of two
devastating world wars with the very country that is secretly orchestrating
the E.C. or the New World Order.

Germany is not only the largest federated state in the E.C., but in 1990 was
the LARGEST economic power in the WORLD, with a trade surplus totaling over
$58 billion. With almost no foreign currency reserves in 1949, Germany had
accumulated nearly $80 billion in reserves by 1989, compared with the $38
billion in the U.S.A. and $41 billion in Great Britain. A rather incredible
"comeback" for a country that had waged two world wars for the sole purpose
of offensive conquest, wars that had cost the Allies a HEAVY price in blood
and resources.

Of course Germany is also the LEADING economic power in the E.C. as well,
possessing 35% of the Economic power-base of the European Community
according to the GROLIER ENCYCLOPEDIA. So just WHERE does the real power lie in the E.C. / N.W.O? Considering that the German Black Nobility were the
same ones who sent Vladimir Lenin from GERMANY to Russia to start the
Communist Revolution, AND the same powers who backed Adolph Hitler... then
it is not surprising that Communist East Germany would merge into
Democratic(?) West Germany with such ease.

It should not be surprising, therefore, to learn that GERMAN troops in the
United States AND Canada play a MAJOR role in the planned invasion of North
America under the cover of a "United Nations" emergency action. Lenin
himself revealed the ultimate goal of the 'Communist' agenda, on behalf of
the Bavarian 'elite' whom he served. Communism, like Democracy, was supposed
to give control of the government to the PEOPLE. But of course Lenin altered
the plan a little bit -- just as the largely unelected-appointed Executive
branch of the American government 'altered' the rules of democracy -- and
stated that he did not believe that the common people could 'handle' the
responsibility of directing the Communist Revolution, so a select group of
individuals 'trained' in the 'Communist philosophy' would carry out this
responsibility instead. And wouldn't you know it, many of these 'people' who
ended up as the leaders of the Communist Revolution were hand-picked by the
German-immigrant "Capitalist" Rockefeller family themselves. "Oh what a
tangled web we weave...". The Bavarian cultists who were REALLY running the
show would of course be the "WE" that Lenin refers to in the following
quote:

"First WE will TAKE Russia, next WE will CAPTURE the nations of eastern
Europe, then WE will TAKE the masses of Asia. Finally, WE will SURROUND the
United States and that last bastion of freedom will fall into our hands like
over-ripe fruit."

A likely scenario that some have suggested would be an orchestrated global
economic collapse -- blamed on Americans of course -- which would be
followed by fomented anarchy in American cities, followed by sudden nuclear
strikes on strategic military bases on the East and West coasts, followed by
a Chinese invasion of the West coast, a Russian invasion via Alaska, and a
United Nations / German invasion via the East and North-East coasts of the
U.S.A.

All of those countries who believe that by accepting a flawed Socialist
political agenda from ANOTHER country [Germany] in order to supplement their
own nation and cultural integrity are sadly mistaken. Collaborating with a
Bavarian-backed United Nations - New World Order agenda can only lead to the
DEATH of your independence as a nation, the DEATH of your culture and
history, and the DEATH of your children who are sent to fight and die for
the sake of a Global Government, its Bavarian-Antarctican masters, and in
turn their 'Draconian' allies who are just waiting with greedy claws to take
hold of this planet once they have succeeded in getting us to kill each
other off to the point where they can move right in and take over with
little human resistance.

[mojo]

We're all waiting for it, but mojo is a bitch.

ahhh fuck.

my bad.

i need a reminder or something to ring everytime i log on that tells me when ive forgotten to post something i promised.

[century]

”Vigilance is the price of freedom.”
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Enslavement is the price of indifference."

[mojo]

”Vigilance is the price of freedom.”
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Enslavement is the price of indifference."

"short term memory loss is the price of enjoyment"
-- mojo

[Eyeforalie]

i need a reminder or something to ring everytime i log on that tells me when ive forgotten to post something i promised.

Ring Ring.

[WhispersInTheDark]

The Knights Templar of yore exist today as part of another society altogether... same for the Illuminati.

[Ra187]

the knights templar still exist to a certain degree...they can be joined and so can many other older groups or fraternities of sort.....just gotta go out and look into it and it will find you..

[WhispersInTheDark]

KT's are just an offshoot of the York rite, with lovely flowing robes and much symbolic swordplay.

Illuminati are not so veiled in allegory or 'illustrative'.

[Eyeforalie]

The Illuminati isn't a group. It's a thing.

[WhispersInTheDark]

The Illuminati isn't a group. It's a thing.


Can you rephrase that, bearing in mind that illuminati is a plural form of illuminatus?

[Cogburn]

Can you rephrase that, bearing in mind that illuminati is a plural form of illuminatus?

The phrasing was correct.

[WhispersInTheDark]

Not sure.

You could say "Freemasonry is a society with secrets" but you could not say "The Freemasons is a society with secrets".

[Cogburn]

Not sure.

You could say "Freemasonry is a society with secrets" but you could not say "The Freemasons is a society with secrets".

That would be correct.

You've created an interesting little Zen koan for yourself. :)

[WhispersInTheDark]

46. How Grass & Trees Become Enlightened

During the Kamakura period, Shinkan studied Tendai six years and then studied Zen seven years; then he went to China and contemplated Zen for thirteen years more.

When he returned to Japan many desired to interview him and asked onscure questions. But when Shinkan received visitors, which was infrequently, he seldom answered their questions.

One day a fifty-year-old student of enlightenment said to Shinkan: "I have studied the Tendai school of thought since I was a little boy, but one thing in it I cannot understand. Tendai claims that even the grass and trees will become enlightened. To me this seems very strange."

"Of what use is it to discuss how grass and trees become enlightened?" asked Shinkan. "The question is how you yourself can become so. Did you ever consider that?"

"I never thought of it in that way," marveled the old man.

"Then go home and think it over," finished Shinkan.

[Cogburn]

Hey mojo.... This bump's for you.

:cool:

[mojo]

Hey mojo.... This bump's for you.

:cool:

lol.

i have prevarication issues.

[Cogburn]

lol.

i have prevarication issues.

This is AmKon, right?

That's more of a disclaimer than usual. :D

[Chorlton]

Secret societies and conspiracies exist.

The Illuminati used to exist, but now it does not.

Does that about sum it up?

It's interesting the people that chose not to contribute to this thread. .

Well as soon as Pack began the total crap about Rennes-le-Chateau I was out. The answer to Rennes and in particular Father Saunnier is for more boring and banal than many would have you think.
I spent many hours in Rennes as the place also is in the center of a goldpanning area I frequent.
Theres also a hint there of the real truth.

[anarch]

BUMP TREK Seeking the rational on a night of stupidity. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET THEIR BE INTELLECTUAL POSTINGS AGAIN!!!!

[anarch]

One more college try.. for the early morning folk.

[guinnessford]

Im in, and Chorl...even though that part may be boring it dont mean its not relevant.

I find that part rather sleep inducing too, but then again most french history does....

[theeindiee]

before illuminati, chop wood and carry water, after illuminati, chop wood, carry water, and consider goat fucking because goats are people too...

[Eyeforalie]

Bump

[Eyeforalie]

Cog, you have wood to chop and water to carry ;)

[Cogburn]

Gawd this will take ages.

Gotta start somewhere I guess.

I'll see about a full write up.

No more secrets. No more hiding. Time for the sun to shine on everything.

[Eyeforalie]

Dont worry, I'll help :)

[theeindiee]

The Illuminati is a group thing.

Put on your red shoes and sing the blues.

[theeindiee]

God what? David Bowie? I love David Bowie! David Bowie is probably the master of the world.

[egg]

God what? David Bowie? I love David Bowie! David Bowie is probably the master of the world.

agY6FBwHcHw

[theeindiee]

Oh.... right. He sold the world to Kurt Cobain. Kurt Cobain committed suicide in The World, and then for quite a few years The World was condemned, but then Andrew McCombs traded his soul for the deed to the property.... and is now currently finishing the demolition of the condemned structure, and is currently in the initial planning phases of the new structure.

That damn brain matter got everywhere.

[Cogburn]

So let's see... How would I term the "Illuminati" with a new eye (lol)?

First off, your acceptance of my recent experiences is simply not relevant to this discussion. There are large groups of motivated, resourceful people who do accept such things. Accept that, at least, and let's move on.

This is going to take a bit of background so that I can attempt to express the full picture without going off on an incoherent ramble. I've never actually had to put this into words before, all in one place.

All elements in the periodic table are born in the heart of a solar furnace and are expelled into the universe through its death. Those atomic elements then join through the laws of physics to form molecules. Those molecules then combine further to form more complex molecules. Those molecules clump together to form various forms of matter, including bases and acids. Those acids combine to form RNA. RNA combines to form DNA. DNA is your blueprint for your vehicle, created by the forces of the universe, through which you experience the remainder of that universe. You are not seperate from the universe, you are the universe and it is you.

As such, the only thing that life produces that the universe does not is love and it's antipode, pain. Thus all emotional content you experience can be reduced to interacting variations of love and pain.

Love and pain create tensions within your mind which influence your behavior. This can manifest in desire, avoidance, irrationality, or a variety of other base emotional states created by specific forms of interaction. Understanding these forces within your mind provides control over them, whereby one might then exert one's Free Will.

Those tensions spread throughout culture like the web of a spider. Your interactions with others, even random strangers, has an effect upon the greater whole of your community and, by Nth logical conclusion, the world.

Those you truly love most are usually those you truly know best. You share empathetic bonds created by time and experience by which their emotional states create a reflection in you. That reflection can be either love or pain, based upon your conscious intent. The gravity of your decision for the interaction, and thereby magnitude of love/pain created, rests on which side of the love/pain coin you select and the degree to which you employ it.

If you can feel the tensions in those around you and understand them within the perspective of your own emotions (or lack thereof), you can trace them back to their source like tracing the ripple back across the pond to the point at which the pebble intersected the surface of the water.

When you allow for the experience of love, the world one experiences on a daily basis takes on a different tone. It is generally a happier, brighter place. One feels lighter, confident, with less need for food or sleep. All of these effects have been repeatedly documented by medical science for decades. As such, love might then be considered a "higher" emotional state.

By logical opposite, pain may then be considered a "lower" emotional state.

All life possess the ability to convert pain into love and love into pain. We are the alchemical furnaces of the universe.

Modern world culture, including 9/11 and the economic collapse, establishes a world-wide psychological harmony; whereby disparate groups of individuals are all hoping and dreading the same relative exeriences. The tension created around the world is manipulated to a specific constant between uncertainty and gratification, fueled by fear and ignorance. It is a state of suspended animation: never too happy, never too sad. However, modern western culture also contains all of the information needed to abandon it, just add courage.

If one can escape the bonds of culture, the ability to experience love or pain becomes literally unlimited. However, as with a nuclear reaction, there is a "critical mass" of emotional content one can reach with extreme application of either pain or love.

That critical mass is achieved through a variety of processes, all of them valid. I'm not going to outline any of them here. Suffice it to say that it is a series of ego-loss exercises by which one willfully abandons all connections with the physical world. Elimination of desire, call it what you will. They are all over, find one you like and commmit yourself.

Okay, so now the reaction is ready: Love is at critial mass, Ego control rods have been removed... now it's time for the meltdown.

Inside your mind is what I've come to call "The Great Seal," because I have a sense of humor. That's the thing on the back of my clown suit, or represented on the back of the US dollar bill, or any one of a thousand conspiracy theory websites. The Eye in the Pyramid. You know the drill. It looks like a triangle, but it is, in fact, four parts which combine to make a fifth. Using my clown suit as the example: the three points that make the triangle, the jacket upon which they are placed, and the black sun in the center which all four other parts create together.

Add the four parts in proper combination (earth, air, fire, water... get it?) and you will reveal The Seal. Behind The Seal lies The Door. Unlock The Seal and you can then open The Door. Behind The Door lies the direct access to the forces of the universe which you have been bestowed simply by the fact that you are alive. Think of it like the DOS Command Prompt window for all existence: direct access to lower (higher) layers of the universal operating system.

You can also seriously fuck things up if you don't know what you're doing. Most often the only thing you'll truly fuck up is your own soul.

You need not ever use it, but it's there if you want it. Call that desire to unlock The Seal and open The Door, "faith". Faith in anything created by the universe... doesn't matter what. All such things are derived from a consideration of those aspects of life which are pure creations of the universe. Science is as good as art is as good as religion is as good as humanisim is as good as philosophy.

The sole (pun intended) purpose of the Illuminati is to raise the psychological interactions of western culture to a point of universal critical mass. This is done through creation of tensions by massive, globally witnessed expressions of love and pain. For example, let's say the emotional swings of the latter half of 2008 when the economy of the world nearly collapsed and the United States elected its first black president on a platform of "Hope" and "Change". Hatian earthquake in contrast to the Chillian miners. You get the point.

These tensions are like a centrifuge, and every so often someone is flung out of the top... and *SMACK* into The Great Seal. Sometimes they land on their feet, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they can unlock it, sometimes they can't. Sometimes they can open The Door, sometimes they smash themselves to bits trying.

So why do all this? To open The Door in as many people as possible, all at the same time.

So what's the final secret of the Illuminati?

You're already a member.

[Pam]

By default?

[Cogburn]

By default?
Yup.

All you can do is reduce your stage time in the universal drama. That's what monasteries are for.

Suicide is not an option. Reincarnation is not a pleasant experience. There's a reason you cannot consciously remember being born. It's your first psychological defense mechanism against the first emotion you experience: the pain of loss.

[Pam]

Why would you want to reduce your stage time? It's a good play :)

[Cogburn]

Free will is a harsh mistress. :)

[Pam]

I guess what it really boils down to is how you figure things out for yourself and what will assist you through accepting/enjoying your time on this planet.

We each get there in our own ways and who is to say which way was right as long as the choice you made worked for you.

I must say, whatever you experienced has certainly changed your "tone" in a positive light so it can't be a bad thing ;)

[Cogburn]

Everybody helps each other.

To say that "no man is an island" is the Understatement of All History.

[Pam]

Are you laughing more now?

[Cogburn]

Everyday I think it's not possible.

Everyday I am proven hilariously wrong.

[Pam]

:lol:

I laugh a lot, but not today, I have to get rid of someone at my work this morning, I abhor doing negative things to a point where it woke me up at 2:00am today with a major pang of sadness/guilt ....

So........ not to sit and dwell on things and free my brain from where it was at, at 2:00am, I came online to scan some news, check in here for some laughs and almost two and a half hours have passed fairly quickly, not as quickly as they would had I been able to sleep though.

[Cogburn]

It's 4am here. Why am I awake?

... and yet, here we are.

:)

[Pam]

Maybe you were here to help me take my mind off things?

Thanks :)

[Cogburn]

Just doing my job, ma'am.

Pass it on to someone else who might need it. :)

[Pam]

We are in the same time zone, have you not slept at all yet Cog?

I did sleep from 9:30 until 2:00am when my mind woke me up thinking about what I have to do this morning :(

[Cogburn]

Erph... not really.

I guess getting that 4 shot mocha at midnight was a bad idea.

[Pam]

Just doing my job, ma'am.

Pass it on to someone else who might need it. :)

You do realize that I have always been that way don't you? I do pass it on, and I do smile a lot and I put others feelings before my own, its my nature :)

Have you ever spent a day just smiling at everyone you see and saying good morning or good day? It is absolutely amazing the response you get back from people.

[Cogburn]

Sounds like you may not know the details, but you at least have a method by which to handle your morning.

Better than most folks when they start their day.

[Pam]

I read what you wrote above where I responded "by default?"

What you say makes sense and was well expressed by you. But I truly don't think knowing the details of why or what makes me tick is necessary. I just move along and enjoy.

Sadness and grief kick in every now and then on the way but those emotions are there for a reason.

I am just healing now from a sadness and was hoping I was back on an upward trend but this little "thing I have to do today" got in my way :(

[Cogburn]

Ignorance is bliss.

Why does time heal everything?

Because our memories are fucking awful.

:)

[Pam]

Ignorance is bliss.

Why does time heal everything?

Because our memories are fucking awful.

:)

My long term is incredible, my short term sucks.

I think the short term sucks because there is too much information coming in at a rapid speed and multi-tasking works best when you don't concentrate too hard on any one thing. I am a major multi-tasker at my job :D

Later, when you have time to think about what you did, your mind sorts and files it. Some gets tossed out entirely as it has no relevance on your life but the important stuff gets neatly stored in a corner of your brain to remember forever.

Time doesn't heal everything unfortunately, it just makes things fade.

[Cogburn]

The faded parts of a picture are not what catch your eye.

Just focus on the interesting stuff. :)

[Pam]

Exactly, but you can still see the faded parts, they just aren't as important as the pretty bright colours around them at that/this moment in time.

I do wear rose coloured glasses of course ;)

[WhispersInTheDark]

Ron Howard did a Happy Days version of the scatological comedy Angels and Demons, that held my attention and created mirth all the way through.

Bad old illuminati!


M9poubKYsWs


;)

[egg]

Time doesn't heal everything unfortunately, it just makes things fade.

Or those thing become a part of you so much, you fail to notice them anymore.

[Eyeforalie]

Or those thing become a part of you so much, you fail to notice them anymore.

And that's why we are at the state we are in.

[BE2]

what state is that?

[Eyeforalie]

Confusion. The beginning of polarity. At least IMO.

[BE2]

nah. just the usual perplexity. it's called 'the human condition.' like someone said- 'the eschaton is always immanent.'

[Cogburn]

It's all a matter of if you want it to be real, or not.

That one simple concept is often the most difficult to accept.

[BE2]

There is a reality that relys upon basic consensus - that's the one that enables discourse. All others are essentially solipsistic and useless- although entertaining to ponder.

[Cogburn]

There is a reality that relys upon basic consensus - that's the one that enables discourse. All others are essentially solipsistic and useless- although entertaining to ponder.
What sort of reality does not enable discourse save the one that is left unacknowledged?

The only consensus would need to be the continuation of ... (wait for it) ... the dialectic.

[BE2]

The Dialectical Process is precisely the agreement that enables enquiry. Irrational nonsense does not.

[Cogburn]

Everyone has to start somewhere.

[BE2]

it starts with modus ponens and continues from there.

[century]

anybody ever check out itanimulli.com (http://www.itanimulli.com/) ? seems it was someone bought the domain or something..

[century]

sJl7hO8bv9o

[century]

Smoke em if u got em HAHA:D

[egg]

Lost me when he mentioned summoning Lucifer...

[egg]

Ain't the Christian God wonderful. He'll let all the Muslims and Jews die horribly and then scoot the Christians off somewhere safe before the Atheists get 'em.

Sweet guy.

Ayyyyyy....

[egg]

How about the over 900 million Hindus and almost 400 million Buddhists? If they're not part of this at all, I'm becoming Buddhist.

[boycotteverything]

Is this the guy who Pike's Peak is named after? There's a huge masonic temple dedicated to the dude in Denver.

[Cogburn]

No, that's Zebulon Pike.

Albert Pike is probably, at the same time, one of the best and worst things to happen to masonry.

His interpretation of masonic symbolism comes through the lens of staunch anti-Christian rhetoric of the industrial 19th century. Same with Blavatsky, Levi, and (in the 20th century) Hall.

Lucifer, indeed. Deluded fools.

[boycotteverything]

Well I gotta say- Colorado Springs wouldn't be worth a shit without it. Especially since they closed down the Tesla museum.

[skunk]

No more tesla museum???

[egg]

It's part of the overarching masonic plot.

[boycotteverything]

Tesla museum ist kaput.

[skunk]

Fortunately there's still one in belgrade, not really sure I'll ever make it out that way though.

[egg]

A LOT of beautiful sexy women in Belgrade.

[Ozfactor]

Tesla museum ist kaput.

Tesla lives in my heart.

[egg]

I can't decide if this "AmKon Does The Illuminati, Once and For All" is more of a mob title. Like, amkon's gonna put two zitis in the bonnet of the Illuminati.

Or, like a porno - amkon does the illuminati.

Thoughts?

[boycotteverything]

Tesla lives in my heart. That explains the floating hair brush.

[egg]

Tesla lives in my heart.

He's a very tall man, and runs some questionable experiments, you might want to ask him to move.

[boycotteverything]

I can't decide if this "AmKon Does The Illuminati, Once and For All" is more of a mob title. Like, amkon's gonna put two zitis in the bonnet of the Illuminati.

Or, like a porno - amkon does the illuminati.

Thoughts?Given that it's Amkon, I'll vote for porno.

[egg]

Yeah, the porno's the obvious choice.

But, we've got some good characters here. I think we can do the Illuminati mob style.

"What are you prepared to do?"

A pair of Jedi's poopie stained undies to anyone who can tell me what movie that quote comes from.

[boycotteverything]

the illuminati train is leaving the station

[skunk]

Definitely a porno.

[Eyeforalie]

All the illumanati are deluded fools. ;)

[boycotteverything]

Well that goes without saying. Anything else to add?

[Ozfactor]

Yeah, the porno's the obvious choice.

But, we've got some good characters here. I think we can do the Illuminati mob style.

"What are you prepared to do?"

A pair of Jedi's poopie stained undies to anyone who can tell me what movie that quote comes from.

"A few Good Men"? Poopie undies again egg?

[boycotteverything]

The Egg is obsessed with skid marks. Not a complaint, mind you- just an observation.

[Eyeforalie]

Well that goes without saying. Anything else to add?

Yea. Careful what you wish for. Lol

[Cogburn]

Definitely a porno.

We're running a train on them.

[boycotteverything]

the illuminati train is leaving the station echoes are good.

[Eyeforalie]

We're running a train on them.

"there are easier ways to have a threesome, dude."

Haha

[Cogburn]

echoes are good.-8747282288684360296

[boycotteverything]

spare me teh toobs.

[Ozfactor]

Ya know Cog, Waters and Gilmore are of the Illuminated ones. I'll do any Illuminate.

[egg]

"A few Good Men"? Poopie undies again egg?

Nope. Here's a hint, think Sean Connery.


The Egg is obsessed with skid marks. Not a complaint, mind you- just an observation.

Hahahhahahahahaha!!!! I only think poopie pants when I think of Jedi. Can't help it :D