PDA

View Full Version : Developing countries boycott UN climate talks



skunk
12-14-2009, 07:42 PM
This is what happens when closed doors meetings (in this case, only rich nations) decide the future of global law (and our planet), and fuck over the majority of people.

In case anyone had missed the copenhagen leak:

http://www.amkon.net/showpost.php?p=299462&postcount=16

The document was described last night by one senior diplomat as "a very dangerous document for developing countries. It is a fundamental reworking of the UN balance of obligations. It is to be superimposed without discussion on the talks".

A confidential analysis of the text by developing countries also seen by the Guardian shows deep unease over details of the text. In particular, it is understood to:

• Force developing countries to agree to specific emission cuts and measures that were not part of the original UN agreement;

• Divide poor countries further by creating a new category of developing countries called "the most vulnerable";

• Weaken the UN's role in handling climate finance;

• Not allow poor countries to emit more than 1.44 tonnes of carbon per person by 2050, while allowing rich countries to emit 2.67 tonnes.

Developing countries that have seen the text are understood to be furious that it is being promoted by rich countries without their knowledge and without discussion in the negotiations.

Developing countries boycott UN climate talks (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091214/D9CJ48I00.html)

China, India and other developing nations boycotted U.N. climate talks on Monday, bringing negotiations to a halt with their demand that rich countries discuss much deeper cuts in their greenhouse gas emissions.

Representatives from developing countries - a bloc of 135 nations - said they refused to participate in any formal working groups at the 192-nation summit until the issue was resolved.

The African-led move was a setback for the Copenhagen talks, which were already faltering over long-running disputes between rich and poor nations over emissions cuts and financing for developing countries to deal with climate change.

However, the move Monday was largely seen as a ploy to shift the agenda to the responsibilities of the industrial countries and make emissions reductions the first item for discussion when world leaders begin arriving Tuesday.

"I don't think the talks are falling apart, but we're losing time," said Kim Carstensen, of the World Wildlife Fund. The developing countries "are making a point."

The dispute came as the conference entered its second week, and only days before over 100 world leaders including President Barack Obama were scheduled to arrive in Copenhagen.

"Nothing is happening at this moment," Zia Hoque Mukta, a delegate from Bangladesh, told The Associated Press. He said developing countries have demanded that conference president Connie Hedegaard of Denmark bring the industrial nations' emissions targets to the top of the agenda before talks can resume.

Poor countries, supported by China, say Hedegaard had raised suspicion that the conference was likely to kill the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, which limited carbon emissions by wealthy countries and imposed penalties for failing to meet those targets.

Poor countries want to extend that treaty because it commits rich nations to emissions cuts and imposes penalties if they fall short. The United States withdrew from Kyoto over concerns that it would harm the U.S. economy and that China, India and other major greenhouse gas emitters were not required to take action.

"We are seeing the death of the Kyoto Protocol," said Djemouai Kamel of Algeria, the head of the 50-nation Africa group.

It was the second time the Africans have disrupted the climate talks. At the last round of negotiations in November, the African bloc forced a one-day suspension until wealthy countries agreed to spell out what steps they will take to reduce emissions.

An African delegate said developing countries decided to block the negotiations at a meeting hours before the conference was to resume. He was speaking on condition of anonymity because the meeting was held behind closed doors. He said applause broke out every time China, India or another country supported the proposal to stall the talks.

U.N. climate chief Yvo De Boer said Hedegaard was holding informal consultations with delegates "to get things going."

In Washington, The White House on Monday announced a new program drawing funds from international partners to spend $350 million over five years to give developing nations clean energy technology to curb greenhouse gas emissions and reduce global warming.

The program will distribute solar power alternatives for homes, including sun-powered lanterns, supply cleaner equipment and appliances and work to develop renewable energy systems in the world's poorer nations.

The funding plan grew out of the Major Economies Forum (MEF) established among the world's top economies earlier this year.

The U.S. share of the program will amount to $85 million with the remainder coming from Australia, Britain, Netherlands, Norway and Switzerland, the White House said in a statement.

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Energy Secretary Steven Chu is to coordinate with partners in the group to insure immediate action on the program.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown's office said he would arrive in Copenhagen on Tuesday - two days earlier than previously planned - in an attempt to inject momentum into the climate talks.

"His view is that these negotiations can't wait until the last minute. He believes that we have learnt the lessons from the G-20, that it takes leadership to get involved and try to pull together what is required as soon as possible," Brown's spokesman Simon Lewis told reporters in London.

Lewis denied that Brown - facing a national election by June - was seeking to personal credit if a deal is struck. "He is not seeking to push himself forward, but he has taken a personal view that it is important that, if world leaders can, they should get there early," the spokesman said.

Earlier Monday, British Climate Change Secretary Ed Miliband said it's up to him and his counterparts in Copenhagen to help bridge that gap between rich and poor countries and "not to leave everything" to the world leaders.

"There are still difficult issues of process and substance that we have to overcome in the coming days," Miliband said. "Can we get the emission cuts we need? We need higher ambition from others and we will be pushing for that."

anarch
12-14-2009, 07:56 PM
I may not understand every aspect of this... but I give a damn enough to bump it...

I also understand that larger countries always exploit the smaller countries. So the un fair cap and trades come as no surprise to me... Enterprise corruption is accutally a pretty good web resource for understanding corporations better.

captainkiwi
12-14-2009, 09:03 PM
like that wasn't gona happen the whole deal is of ......there is no hope that this approach will ever get the results that the planet needs ....they are now saying another 6 years before any binding agreement can be reached .....the only possible outcome full and final failure.....we're fucked

hp
12-14-2009, 09:11 PM
Skunk can you change the color of the second post. (it's black on dark gray)

skunk
12-14-2009, 09:17 PM
Looks like I can't win either way. I tried making the post white, then I checked on default and its unreadable, then I changed it to black and on amkon green/yellow its unreadable.

skunk
12-14-2009, 09:18 PM
Fuck it, green. At least its readable on all skins.

Pack any idea how that happened?

Foxtrot Oscar
12-14-2009, 09:42 PM
The UN is bullshit.

COP15 is bullshit.

The top industrial nations will continue to churn out however much crap into the air as they like as long as they are making a profit. Alturnative energies are kept unresonably highly priced and gov's will make token guestures to be seemingly doing good while in reality doing fuck all.

It comes down to each and every one of us - the real people - doing what is right. STOP buying all that shit. GROW some of your own food. FUCK your politicians!

STOP - GROW - FUCK.

It's catchy... I think I'm on to something here!

Fox

boycotteverything
12-14-2009, 09:46 PM
The UN is bullshit.

COP15 is bullshit.

The top industrial nations will continue to churn out however much crap into the air as they like as long as they are making a profit. Alturnative energies are kept unresonably highly priced and gov's will make token guestures to be seemingly doing good while in reality doing fuck all.

It comes down to each and every one of us - the real people - doing what is right. STOP buying all that shit. GROW some of your own food. FUCK your politicians!

STOP - GROW - FUCK.

It's catchy... I think I'm on to something here!

Fox
you're on to the cure.

captainkiwi
12-14-2009, 09:53 PM
The real problem is the first world population are all consumption junkies hooked on crap we don't need. Until we can refine our lives to simple pleasures we are all doomed to continue down this finite pathway.

Ethereal_Resonance
12-14-2009, 10:11 PM
The sea snake has been around for decades, and the inventor (from Scotland) was told the technology was too expensive. This is very viable technology, but whilst dust-bowl countries are invaded for oil & gas, green tech will always be suppressed; much like Tesla and wireless electricity - he was asked 'so where do we put the meter'. He then had all his patents revoked.

u-9P2VflRWU

Also, in the UK a wind turbine company (Vestas) went bankrupt in the summer and the employees locked themselves in the offices to protest the lack of g'ment support (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jul/23/vestas-wind-turbine-plant-closure).

From Rolling Stones article (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/31234647/obamas_big_sellout/print), it is estimated that the cumulative total of bank bail-outs will reach $24 TRILLION.

Whilst fractional reserve banking and Fiat money exist, the corrupt 1% who own 99% of wealth, will always fuck over everyone else as much as possible.

Copenhagen is just a front to instigate a global governance and tax; fuckers like Gore will have vested interests in middle-tier companies who will manage carbon tax portfolios for the energy companies who will stiff their customers.

boycotteverything
12-14-2009, 10:15 PM
the paradigm has to be this: use only what you need and leave the rest. it's not a new idea- hell it's straight out of Deuteronomy- but it contradicts the values of capitalism. the method lies in two principles- the General Strike and a Boycott of Everything. simple enough.

boycotteverything
12-14-2009, 10:21 PM
i suppose another way of saying it is this: "from each according to his abilities and for each in accord with his needs."

Ethereal_Resonance
12-14-2009, 10:23 PM
There's greed, then there's American ideology, nay idiocy.

Condoning V8 MPV's and 8 lane interstates, doesn't bode well for gluttonous American's nor the rest of the World. Nothing wrong with driving around in 1.0litre Ford Fiesta's.

Just wait until India, China start to have a bigger energy footprint; they will be the ones stomping their way around the globe with their military might, raping natural oil reserves.

We need a good thermo-nucleur war to cull the population; a good old revolution to oust corrupt politicians and then de-centralise centralised power back to the states and then release esoteric alien technology that harnesses ZPE.

However, whilst oil is our primary directive, this will never happen.

boycotteverything
12-14-2009, 10:24 PM
what we need is this:

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-3/che-guevara-fidel-castro.jpg

captainkiwi
12-14-2009, 11:27 PM
the paradigm has to be this: use only what you need and leave the rest. it's not a new idea- hell it's straight out of Deuteronomy- but it contradicts the values of capitalism. the method lies in two principles- the General Strike and a Boycott of Everything. simple enough.
Fucking simple really ......but just what is it that's going to make the world sit on it's collective ass and say fuck it we quit ..... I vote for Oblomovism right fucking on......

captainkiwi
12-14-2009, 11:29 PM
what we need is this:

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-3/che-guevara-fidel-castro.jpg
Im in !!!!!!!! rally the troops ........Ol'man

Lexion
12-14-2009, 11:32 PM
what we need is this:

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-3/che-guevara-fidel-castro.jpg

Yeah.

Cuba is doing quite well.

captainkiwi
12-14-2009, 11:32 PM
all corporate nazi should be hunted down and shot with a ball of their own shit they are the real enemy within

captainkiwi
12-14-2009, 11:35 PM
yeah Cuba is doing well with out all the trappings and in spite of all the shit the USA has dumped on them over the years "viva la revolution"

Lexion
12-14-2009, 11:40 PM
After more than 47 years, there is much more poverty in Cuba than ever before.

Except for Castro and his gang who are the new millionaires, the 11 million Cubans have to suffer

the exploitation of the omnipotent state, rationed food, lack of housing and the indignity of being

second class citizens in their own country.

Source (http://www.therealcuba.com/Poverty.htm)

captainkiwi
12-14-2009, 11:48 PM
After more than 47 years, there is much more poverty in Cuba than ever before.

Except for Castro and his gang who are the new millionaires, the 11 million Cubans have to suffer

the exploitation of the omnipotent state, rationed food, lack of housing and the indignity of being

second class citizens in their own country.

Source (http://www.therealcuba.com/Poverty.htm)
Just giving you a wind Lex relax ol'boy

skunk
12-15-2009, 06:06 AM
Let's see if the colors fuck up again in this post.

Tensions Increase as Poor Nations Stage a Protest (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126079318461090419.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStori es)

Go figure there'd be some backlash to a select few countries deciding the fate of all.

How dare they question the west's motives!

Tempers flared Monday at the United Nations climate summit as poor nations staged a walkout to protest what they called inadequate aid offers from rich countries, and the U.S. and China jockeyed for position.

World leaders, including President Barack Obama, are expected to arrive in Copenhagen later this week, ostensibly to try to seal an international agreement to curb greenhouse-gas emissions and subsidize efforts by developing countries to adopt low-carbon energy technology and adapt to shifts in weather patterns or rising sea levels.

But the talk in Copenhagen is increasingly about scaled-back expectations. One possibility is a very general agreement in which developed countries promise to try to reduce their collective emissions by some amount and to provide a pot of money to help pay for a cleanup in the developing world. But such an agreement would leave the toughest questions -- how much each country would cut, and how much each would pay -- up in the air.

"Maybe the result you get from here is going to be less ambitious than we would like. But it would be better than nothing," said Sergio Serra, Brazil's ambassador for climate change.

The divide between rich and poor boiled over Monday when negotiators for the Group of 77 -- which represents developing countries as well as large emerging economies such as Brazil, India and China -- walked out of the negotiations in the morning.

They returned to the conference later in the day, but the underlying issues remained unsolved, Swedish Minister Andreas Carlgren said. This prompted a suspension in the official negotiation, and the chairman of the conference appointed two ministers to pursue consultation on how to solve the problem.

China, the world's biggest greenhouse-gas emitter, is casting the talks as a referendum on what it calls the developed world's failure to clean up its act. Rich countries should "honor the commitments they have made" in the past, said Li Ganjie, China's vice minister of environmental protection.

At the heart of the disputes in Copenhagen are sharp disagreements over money. An existing treaty intended to curb global warming requires emission cuts from developed countries that ratified it but not from developing countries. That treaty, the Kyoto Protocol, doesn't demand emission cuts from the U.S. or China, which together produce 40% of global greenhouse-gas emissions, because the U.S. didn't ratify it and because China is classified as a developing country.

China argues that any new international agreement should continue to make more demands on developed countries than on developing ones. But most studies project that essentially all of the increase in global greenhouse-gas emissions in the next few decades will come from developing countries, with China topping the list, and so the fight is over how to ensure environmental action there.

That is a position that Chinese negotiators are intent on telegraphing back home. The Chinese delegation closed a scheduled news conference Monday to all but Chinese media, because it wanted "to urge the domestic population to support our endeavor" at the climate conference, said Lai Xing, a Chinese delegation spokesman. "We have a message for the domestic audience."

Speaking to reporters late Monday, U.S. climate envoy Todd Stern said governments have "a long way to go if we're going to produce the kind of agreement we need."

"We don't have very much time. The clock is definitely ticking," he said, adding that the walkout hadn't helped. "Any time that's lost is not helpful."

The European Union has pledged a total of €7.2 billion ($10.52 billion) between next year and 2012 to jump-start efforts to curb emissions in developing countries. Officials from developing countries have called that offer inadequate.

"We need to see developed nations give us a plan of what [financial] transfers will come in five years, 10 years and how much over the years ahead, and we aren't seeing that," said Mamadou Honadia, who is part of the negotiating team for Burkina Faso.

A Nigerian delegation official said the EU offer of short-term funding was "pathetic."

That criticism drew indignation from European officials. "We are the only part of the world that has put money on the table, and we're criticized for it," said Stavros Dimas, the EU environment commissioner.

Jo Leinen, a member of the European Parliament from Germany, called on the U.S. and China to set more-aggressive targets for controlling their emissions.

The G-77 showed signs of disunity as well. Saudi Arabia and Brazil sparred Monday over carbon capture and storage, technology that the kingdom is pushing to shore up in its own emission-reduction efforts, said an official from a G-77 nation familiar with the matter. Brazil is concerned that carbon capture could dent its biofuels industry, as nations opt to burn more fossil fuel and bury emissions underground, rather than use clean-burning biofuels such as ethanol, of which Brazil is a leading producer.

skunk
12-15-2009, 06:08 AM
Interesting picture, from the article above:

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-BC754A_CLIMA_NS_20091214195821.gif

Raptor Jesus
12-15-2009, 07:14 AM
Two words invalidate all this climate crapola....

Industrial Hemp, Industrial Hemp, Industrial Hemp....

***

It could revolutionise the US and it's your true economic stimulus plan...
Ron Paul wanted to legalise growing it...

Nope I'm not a dope smoker and I could care less about that...it's two separate issues... but indutrial hemp could replace *all* of the polluting tech we have...

So aside from the rich countries' hypocrisy there's even deeper issues....