mojo
12-05-2009, 08:56 PM
Since i doubt Bill would allow me to post this at ATS, or if i was allowed to post it at ATS the thread would be inundated with socks and sycophants.
First this is the site Bill has set up in response to the "third party cookie" legislation.
http://keepourwebfree.org/index.html
You may alsolink to us (http://keepourwebfree.org/link.html)to help spread the word about this effort on your own website, or the blogs and discussion boards you visit
I wonder if the link backs somehow profit ATS in some way? Valid question i think, considering this.
http://keepourwebfree.org/about.html
My involvement on this particular issue is multi-facted as the CEO of The Above Network, LLC, a former advertising executive, member of the Internet Advertising Bureau, and developer of early web technologies. Today, I'm fortunate enough to be one of the few people able to work hard and derive income from something that is a great personal passion for me: freedom of expression through user-generated content online.
This website, and the information contained, is for all those users and web site owners with a similar passion for the independent web. While it is essentially my personal project, the funding to make it happen is supplied by The Above Network, LLC.
And this remark is completely disingenious.
I agree that it is likely that some level of legislative action will be required to ensure more online advertising networks operate ethically. While there has been no documented case of inappropriate privacy intrusion,
There is a shitload of documented evidence of ad networks intruding into user privacy. I'm not sure how Bill can make this comment and keep a straight face.
Nebuad and Coupons.com are two examples that immediately spring to mind.
But I believe that, once the users of the independent web are fully informed about this issue, there will be an overwhelming demand for a different solution than the virtual elimination of third-party ad networks.
OK, so i agree that there needs to be a solution, as long as any different solution should always require user confirmation or an "opt in".
Otherwise the nefarious or unethical will always have a backdoor.
Here's another piece of creative spin.
http://keepourwebfree.org/cookies.html
If you use anti-virus or other anti-malware scanning software on your computer,
it has been telling you lies. Each time the software alerts you to an "intrusion" related to cookies from website, it is deceiving you in an apparent effort to ensure you keep using the software.
OK.....so anti-virus or malware software is continually lying to us, but there is no "documented" cases of ad-networks invading our privacy. You can't have it both ways Bill, there are either unethical intrusions and lies being told to us by both the anti-virus firms and the ad networks or they are both squeaky clean.
The profiling, referred to as behavioral targeting, is one of the primary reasons privacy advocates are concerned. While there's good reason to be concerned, no one has provided an actual case of where the profiling and targeting of online advertising has resulted in a problematic invasion of privacy, or inappropriate use of the profile data. Since the cookie contains no personal data, and the ad networks do not collect personal data, the targeting profile has no idea who you really are.
The problem as i see it is that it would seem to be fairly simple for them to find out exactly who you are for exactly those reasons. A file can be compiled because they can tell that you are a repeat visitor to multiple websites.
Whenever i visit certain sites, as most people would know, i can be specifically targeted with ads specific to the town in which i live.
It doesn't take much deduction from there for the technologically savvy, either within the Ad networks to discover exactly who i am and where i live.
"the targeting profile has no idea who you really are".
As an example i visited a site the other day that i am not nor have i ever been a member of, at the bottom of the page i received a pop-up message that said "Hi Mark, Angie in Adelaide would love to talk to you, click here to chat".
How did it know my name and where i lived.
Third party cookies thats how.
How can i be sure. Simple, delete your cookies and return to the same site and i don't receive an identifiably personal message.
No one will argue that we need strict controls regarding the collection and use of data which is the result of your web browsing. Ethical business practices tend to become widespread only after legislative action. However, Representative Boucher's proposed legislation is akin to repairing a slightly rotted wallboard with liberal amounts of gasoline and a flame-thrower.
Hah.....and that description is as sensational as the proposed legislation.
While i agree the legislation is less than perfect i'd argue that it at least attempts to solve what i believe is a serious issue, the invasion of a persons personal privacy.
Unfortunately, as has been proved time and time again, private business and conglomerates cannot be trusted to make ethical decisions, they make decisions based on the "bottom line", as you well know. (The GFC anyone)
We should all be very concerned about the growth of data mining within many institutions.
Data mining is the process of extracting patterns from data. As more data are gathered, with the amount of data doubling every three years,[1] (http://amkon.net/l%20cite_note-0) data mining is becoming an increasingly important tool to transform these data into information. It is commonly used in a wide range of profiling practices (http://amkon.net/wiki/Profiling_practices), such as marketing (http://amkon.net/wiki/Marketing), surveillance (http://amkon.net/wiki/Surveillance), fraud (http://amkon.net/wiki/Fraud) detection and scientific discovery.
Third party cookies do capture identifiable information about your surfing habits. This information can and is saved, kept,compiled and continually updated. Maybe not by everyone or all institutions but to suggest that some institutions or people are not at the very least trying to accumulate and collect this sort of data is the height of ignorance.
He who controls information controls the marketplace and by proxy controls the revenue stream, and this is exactly what any Ad network worth it's salt would require as one of it's prime objectives.
First this is the site Bill has set up in response to the "third party cookie" legislation.
http://keepourwebfree.org/index.html
You may alsolink to us (http://keepourwebfree.org/link.html)to help spread the word about this effort on your own website, or the blogs and discussion boards you visit
I wonder if the link backs somehow profit ATS in some way? Valid question i think, considering this.
http://keepourwebfree.org/about.html
My involvement on this particular issue is multi-facted as the CEO of The Above Network, LLC, a former advertising executive, member of the Internet Advertising Bureau, and developer of early web technologies. Today, I'm fortunate enough to be one of the few people able to work hard and derive income from something that is a great personal passion for me: freedom of expression through user-generated content online.
This website, and the information contained, is for all those users and web site owners with a similar passion for the independent web. While it is essentially my personal project, the funding to make it happen is supplied by The Above Network, LLC.
And this remark is completely disingenious.
I agree that it is likely that some level of legislative action will be required to ensure more online advertising networks operate ethically. While there has been no documented case of inappropriate privacy intrusion,
There is a shitload of documented evidence of ad networks intruding into user privacy. I'm not sure how Bill can make this comment and keep a straight face.
Nebuad and Coupons.com are two examples that immediately spring to mind.
But I believe that, once the users of the independent web are fully informed about this issue, there will be an overwhelming demand for a different solution than the virtual elimination of third-party ad networks.
OK, so i agree that there needs to be a solution, as long as any different solution should always require user confirmation or an "opt in".
Otherwise the nefarious or unethical will always have a backdoor.
Here's another piece of creative spin.
http://keepourwebfree.org/cookies.html
If you use anti-virus or other anti-malware scanning software on your computer,
it has been telling you lies. Each time the software alerts you to an "intrusion" related to cookies from website, it is deceiving you in an apparent effort to ensure you keep using the software.
OK.....so anti-virus or malware software is continually lying to us, but there is no "documented" cases of ad-networks invading our privacy. You can't have it both ways Bill, there are either unethical intrusions and lies being told to us by both the anti-virus firms and the ad networks or they are both squeaky clean.
The profiling, referred to as behavioral targeting, is one of the primary reasons privacy advocates are concerned. While there's good reason to be concerned, no one has provided an actual case of where the profiling and targeting of online advertising has resulted in a problematic invasion of privacy, or inappropriate use of the profile data. Since the cookie contains no personal data, and the ad networks do not collect personal data, the targeting profile has no idea who you really are.
The problem as i see it is that it would seem to be fairly simple for them to find out exactly who you are for exactly those reasons. A file can be compiled because they can tell that you are a repeat visitor to multiple websites.
Whenever i visit certain sites, as most people would know, i can be specifically targeted with ads specific to the town in which i live.
It doesn't take much deduction from there for the technologically savvy, either within the Ad networks to discover exactly who i am and where i live.
"the targeting profile has no idea who you really are".
As an example i visited a site the other day that i am not nor have i ever been a member of, at the bottom of the page i received a pop-up message that said "Hi Mark, Angie in Adelaide would love to talk to you, click here to chat".
How did it know my name and where i lived.
Third party cookies thats how.
How can i be sure. Simple, delete your cookies and return to the same site and i don't receive an identifiably personal message.
No one will argue that we need strict controls regarding the collection and use of data which is the result of your web browsing. Ethical business practices tend to become widespread only after legislative action. However, Representative Boucher's proposed legislation is akin to repairing a slightly rotted wallboard with liberal amounts of gasoline and a flame-thrower.
Hah.....and that description is as sensational as the proposed legislation.
While i agree the legislation is less than perfect i'd argue that it at least attempts to solve what i believe is a serious issue, the invasion of a persons personal privacy.
Unfortunately, as has been proved time and time again, private business and conglomerates cannot be trusted to make ethical decisions, they make decisions based on the "bottom line", as you well know. (The GFC anyone)
We should all be very concerned about the growth of data mining within many institutions.
Data mining is the process of extracting patterns from data. As more data are gathered, with the amount of data doubling every three years,[1] (http://amkon.net/l%20cite_note-0) data mining is becoming an increasingly important tool to transform these data into information. It is commonly used in a wide range of profiling practices (http://amkon.net/wiki/Profiling_practices), such as marketing (http://amkon.net/wiki/Marketing), surveillance (http://amkon.net/wiki/Surveillance), fraud (http://amkon.net/wiki/Fraud) detection and scientific discovery.
Third party cookies do capture identifiable information about your surfing habits. This information can and is saved, kept,compiled and continually updated. Maybe not by everyone or all institutions but to suggest that some institutions or people are not at the very least trying to accumulate and collect this sort of data is the height of ignorance.
He who controls information controls the marketplace and by proxy controls the revenue stream, and this is exactly what any Ad network worth it's salt would require as one of it's prime objectives.