stone maps of mississippi valley

[Ra187]

</link>http://www.midwesternepigraphic.org/sMap01.html<link>

looked kinda interesting....

[boycotteverything]

http://www.midwesternepigraphic.org/sMap01.html

[Ra187]

lol seems as though i have forgotten how to type in a forum can ne1 shoot me a lil help on the

[Ra187]

never mind i found it all

[boycotteverything]

nice find, Ra

[Eyeforalie]

Interesting. The locations are pretty close to where they really are.

Im going to daydream about a time where exploration was normal, where things were new. No wonder people get into wars for no reason. They are board.

[anarch]

YOu know I watched a recent thing about how the knights templar found this land before anyone else...if your interested in researching that sort of thing... Something about a windmill pointing in the right direction west...IDK...Been drinking.

[Ra187]

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=139

seems a bit over the top but some interesting points

[hp]

Nice stuff. Drawing maps on rocks. Does make sense for early people.

Extra bonus, no problem refolding the map.

[Lexion]

I saw the thing on the Templars.

Pretty cool.

[boycotteverything]

I'm with HP on this one. If you've ever tried to refold a map you'll understand what he's talking about. This is all about convenience, nothing more.

[Lexion]

Well, you remember stone maps.

I'm from the folding era.

[Cogburn]

Burrow's Cave is a hoax. There were no Templars in America.

In a 2001 issue of The Ancient American, Wayne May announced that he’s no longer searching for “Burrows’ Cave,” as that name should belong to Burrows and any endeavor Burrows is involved in (May 2001). So, May has renamed the site he’s digging as the “Tombs of Embarras,” after the nearby Embarras River. He also distances his magazine and Wolak’s “Discovery Resources” (company number three?) from Hubbard and Robert Ghostwolf at the beginning and end of the article. A “Ho Chunk Elder” is mentioned as scheduled to be present when he enters the “tunnel system,” to represent Native Americans. Burrows Cave, whether known as “Pharaoh’s Cave,” “Mystery Cave of Many Faces,” the “Lost Tomb of Alexander the Great,” or the “Tombs of Embarras,” remains a hoax.

The often perceived heresy of cultural diffusion, or models which suggest transoceanic and inter-societal contact between the Old and New worlds before Columbus, continues to inspire its champions. Pre-Columbiana: A Journal of Long-Distance Contacts and the post-Fell ESOP both combine credibility with controversy. The diffusion model has received such popular exposure as the cover-article in a recent The Atlantic Monthly (Stengel 2000) and with the odd suggestion by Smithsonian archaeologist, Dennis Stanford, that Solutrean Europeans may have tip-toed across the North Atlantic and inspired the Native American “Clovis” culture. The continuing arguments put forth by Prof. Carl Johannessen about New World plants in an early Old World context, as well as Neilsen's ongoing work on the Kensington Rune Stone, are intellectually vibrant and challenging while showing promise of good work and debate to come. Burrows’ Cave? The efforts of The Ancient American? Talk-radio silliness, financially motivated fraud, outrageous religious agendas, and amateur historical revisionism is what this is all about. It's never been about history or science. It’s about fools. And, I've added to the foolishness by suffering the lies of Russell Burrows and his associates. It's time for me to climb out of Burrows Cave.

[Note: A recent story in the Chicago Reader (Huebner 2002a) about “The Waubansee Stone” featured Frank Joseph, editor of The Ancient American, who “didn’t actually view the Waubansee Stone till the early 1980s, when he embarked on a career in ‘cultural diffusionist’ studies...” Right. Frank Collin, neo-Nazi and pedophile, gets out of jail and becomes ‘Frank Joseph’. I wrote the Chicago Reader and expressed my disappointment (Flavin 2002). The author’s reply was pure wiggle (Huebner 2002b) and a columnist reasoned "that when someone starts out life as a Nazi, there's nowhere to go but up (Miner 2002)." Ouch.]

Conclusions

The major problem with Burrows Cave is that the more one examines the story, the more hoax-like and fabricated it begins to sound. At first glance it sounds plausible--a hiker falls into a cave and finds a trove of potentially-important artifacts. Then we are told the artifacts are not from only one culture, but are Egyptian, Etruscan, Greek, Scandinavian, Roman, Vedic (from India/Pakistan), Hebrew, and so forth. Suspicion naturally grows since it's highly unlikely that all these cultures would've been interacting with the same native American tribes, much less at the same time, without leaving records of their own to tell the tale.

The situation is further complicated by the appearance of Frank Collin, the former neo-Nazi and convicted felon who's restyled himself in a new and more respectable mold. Loud alarms begin going off once murky relationships involving certain diffusionists, fringe-group Mormons, and fundamentalists begin to emerge. Here we are presented with groups who desperately want to believe in extensive contact between native American tribes and various Old World cultures, for a variety of reasons, and who reject interpretations that fail to support this theory.

Worse still, these groups label mainstream science as the "defenders of orthodoxy" who are attempting to "suppress" their discoveries and keep "the truth" away from the public at large. These are the rantings of the pseudoscientist who believes in his own genius and that everyone else is simply misguided or wrong, or of fundamentalists who reject science in favor of Biblical literalism. One is reminded of UFOlogists who treat government denials as "proof of the conspiracy," hawkers of perpetual-motion devices who claim their revolutionary breakthroughs are being ignored or "suppressed" by jealous scientists, and creationists who wrongly equate "theory" with "guess."

Burrows Cave may be a legitimate find or it may be an elaborate hoax; given the available data the latter conclusion seems far more likely. If it is the former, then it behooves its supporters to bring it more fully to the attention of mainstream archaeologists using the same channels and publications that are used for scholarly purposes; write and publish solidly researched articles, allow a legitimate archaeological survey of the site, and let the evidence stand on its own. If it is indeed a hoax, then the reason the location of the cave (if one even exists) is being kept secret becomes obvious--a close examination would reveal the lie.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Until Burrows supporters allow proper studies to be done by competent and unbiased researchers, and until they are willing to accept legitimate criticism from scholars who find the evidence sketchy at best, their claims will remain relegated to the "junk science" file. Likewise, scientists and historians who have dismissed the site as a hoax would do well to publish at least one detailed refutation discussing all the available physical evidence to support their own viewpoint. A blithe dismissal of the site without publishing a readable, accessible refutation only provides additional fuel to support the views of those who accuse mainstream science of excessive orthodoxy and an inability to accommodate new ideas. But the burden of proof is firmly upon the supporters of the cave's authenticity since their extraordinary claim has, to this date, produced no reliable proof and a great deal of suspiciously evasive maneuvering. To echo the words of several academics, it's time for Burrows supporters to put up or shut up.

Note: All information contained in these pages is © 2001-2003 Richard E. Joltes. Short excerpts may be used in other publications where proper credit is given and permission is granted in advance. All rights reserved.

Now.... what's your opinion of every "researcher" that bases any part of their theories on anything that came from Burrow's Cave?

[Cogburn]

Sources include: www.wolflodge.org, Rule By Secrecy by Jim Marrs, publ: Harper Collins. The Hiram Key by C. Knight and R. Lomas, publ: Barnes and Noble Books, New York. He walked the Americas, Taylor Hansen, publ: Legend Press, Amherst, Wisconsin. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Gibbon. Ancient American magazine no. 26 & 33.

[Lexion]

Nice.

[boycotteverything]

Well, you remember stone maps.

I'm from the folding era.you missed some good times.

[Lexion]

I know.

But, I created my own.

[boycotteverything]

yeah- and i bet you wasted half your time folding maps. that's the price you pay.

[Lexion]

Beats looking for rocks.

Wait......

[Ra187]

well theres positives to both sides.....folding things can be a good time making air planes and such....but throwing rocks at things when your bored seems to be more of a release and better suiting to human nature....but would you really wanna go find those rocks after you throw them

[Lexion]

Pockets.

Never throw maps.

[Ra187]

well that entails the question of did they have pockets yet....is there proof???

[Lexion]

Well, there is a method to carry
stuff, while in prison.

[Ra187]

well interesting theory but thats a rock to putting up there even the most anally experienced whore would have troubles with that..

[Ra187]

a lot of rock*

[Lexion]

a lot of rock*

Do tell ?

[skunk]

Burrow's Cave is a hoax. There were no Templars in America.

But there were vikings.

[Cogburn]

They still taught that in school when I was there.

[skunk]

Saint Brendan supposedly crossed the atlantic pre-columbus as well.

http://history.howstuffworks.com/north-american-history/irish-monk-america1.htm