Do YOU Believe In Magick?

[Ducky]

Do YOU believe in magick?

Or has humanity's road been predetermined ahead of you?

AGE OLD QUESTIONS.
All that you are about to see in the next videos, will not only surprise you, but will have you running and gasping for breath, as people like yourself, ask questions about destiny.

Would it surprise you that...'those elected into power', are strangely enough, ALL related to each other? Don't know about you, but it surprised ME all to hell!

What if the events of 911...wern't mere conincidence?

Think about it for a second or two...

What if every story since 911 and beyond, were just orchestrated events to not only capsize your inner being and turn it into something that would polarize towards the upper echelon?

You'd think me crazy (more than on these boards) and would want proof. Right?

What if this so-called 'proof' turned out to be a crazy-assed-idea that permeated within the constructs of Astrology?

First off, let me tell you, I used to believe in astrology when I was younger. Still don't to this day. ANYONE can make charts and 'force' things unto their charts to make it seem that there is more to meet the eye then it should. ANYONE can read into ANY astrological newspaper and see 'what they want to see'. That's key here.

When it comes to predictions, I myself, have a great deal of disbelief. Probably the ONLY time I'll rear my ugly head to look at certain predictions, is when the 'predictor' has gotten a foothold with current/future predictions and has an average of at least a 90% accurate rate and so forth.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that keeps tabs with this as well, and slightly leery of what others claim to be truth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now on to the supposed 'goodies'.

I've watched ALL videos (presented below), and refrain from giving my input until YOU watch these goodies as well.

The next person that justs spews anything from their mouth, within the time that I have posted this first post, will have undoubtedly just read my post here, and NOT seen the vids.

I don't expect that you should see EVERY vid entailed, but at least the first couple should suffice.

If you DON'T care for this kind of stuff, then don't say anything at all.

Simple as that.

No need to go off into tangents about other stuffs that aren't related. It only shows me, and other viewers, that you 'don't really care for this but are willing to go to other extremes to make this sound like another thread about something else.'

Whatever.

In the meantime...

For those who are INTERESTED...

l]vkwBjLG1ULAl]


Let me know what you think?

[Snow Crash]

x]96kwILL35igx]

Sorry... had to be done...

[BriZz]

i watched 3 1/2 of the 5 videos. very interesting. i have watched/read many things on this subject over the last couple of years, and it would be strange if this was all just a coincidence. i definitely think something is there. all of the symbolism is just too weird.

[Cogburn]

True, without error, certain and most true: that which is above is as that which is below, and that which is below is as that which is above, to perform the miracles of the One Thing.

And as all things were from One, by the meditation of One, so from this One Thing come all things by adaptation. Its father is the Sun, its mother is the Moon, the wind carried it in its belly, the nurse thereof is the Earth.

It is the father of all perfection and the consummation of the whole world. Its power is integral if it be turned to Earth.

Thou shalt separate the Earth from the Fire, the subtle from the coarse, gently and with much ingenuity. It ascends from Earth to heaven and descends again to Earth, and receives the power of the superiors and the inferiors.

Thus thou hast the glory of the whole world; therefore let all obscurity flee before thee. This is the strong fortitude of all fortitude, overcoming every subtle and penetrating every solid thing. Thus the world was created. Hence are all wonderful adaptations, of which this is the manner.

Therefore am I called Hermes the Thrice Great, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world. That is finished which I have to say concerning the operation of the Sun.

[Lexion]

G

[Cogburn]

... and proud of it.
http://i33.tinypic.com/35jxm5u.jpg

[Snow Crash]

...holy shit... I REALLY should have seen that coming. Signs were obvious. Shows what happens when I don't listen to The Voice, I miss the signs. Hindsight really is a bitch sometimes.

*sigh* A timely reminder. Thanks Cog.

[Cogburn]

He who has ears, let him hear.

Anytime, sir.

:twisted:

[mojo]

i know a little bit of magick....i can pull a hare outa my ass.

[skunk]

No Ducky, I do not believe in magic or however you want to spell it.

[GeneralStriker]

No Ducky, I do not believe in magic or however you want to spell it.i loudly second that emotion.

[GeneralStriker]

i know a little bit of magick....i can pull a hare outa my ass.gerbil, more likely.

[Snow Crash]

No Ducky, I do not believe in magic or however you want to spell it.

Both spellings are acceptable, if memory serves. I seem to remember reading somewhere there is actually a subtle difference of definition between 'magic' and 'magick', but that was years back and I cannot recall any details, so I could be mistaken. I have noticed though in my research that the k seems to pop up more regularly in serious occult referrences.

[skunk]

You should know the difference, alchemist.

[GeneralStriker]

magick is derived from Mag Ick- an old lady who is the proprietess of the Icky Feelings Pool.

[Ocean]

[post removed by Ocean]

[Snow Crash]

You should know the difference, alchemist.

Hah! No Skunk, the Alchemist under my pseudo is not a reference to the traditional form of alchemy, it's a reference to John Percival Hackworth, the nanotech artifex from Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age. Unwittingly, Hackworth becomes one of the most wanted people in the world due to his abilities with nanotechnological design. In his capacity as The Alchemist, he seeks to create a technlogy that could conceivably decentralise human society forever, known as The Seed, which basically can grow whatever is desired by the user.

CONSTRUCTIVE technology to help free humanity from Elitist control. Something I believe in whole-heartedly. And while of course, the scope for abuse is there, that is why technology can never do it alone. But people ignore tech revolution at their peril.

Edit to add: Ironically, the skills Hackworth exhibits and the technology he seeks to unleash would be seen as magic to our ancestors... I guess that makes this relevant to the thread in some sideways fashion lol.

[GeneralStriker]

any relation to my good friend Dr. Hackenbush?

http://www.marx-brothers.org/marxology/images/hackenbush.jpg

[Ocean]

[post removed by Ocean]

[pack3tg0st]

I remain agnostic towards "magick"

I will say that if "magick" is real, its certainly not what the individual practicioners believe it is...

ever notice so many religions and disciplines claim to have magical abilities?

At the risk of being flamed... I submit that Magick may indeed be real... we've only come to understand a very small fraction of what the human brain is capable of...

Now, add to that the recent discoveries with quantum entanglement and all the other nifty quantum research going on...

It is possible that Magick, ESP, psychics and the like are actually tapping into an undiscovered quantum reality...

I differentiate the Supernatural from the Supranatural...

I define the Supranatural as possibly real phenomenon, however, the science hasn't caught up with the observations quite yet...

eventually science might find rational and completely scientific explainations for the phenomenon, but at the moment, it is beyond our ability to figure out.

Nothing supernatural about it... just completely rational, scientific explainations that haven't been realized yet...

hope that makes sense...

but, the short version:

Do I believe in Magick?

Well, depends on how you look at it....

[cartoon]

http://thestuffyougottawatch.com/picsa-d/dayrace2.jpg
Dr. Hackenbush performs his magick

[theeindiee]

I doubt I have a lot of time left here on this particular Earth. That being said, anytone who doubts magick hasn't looked in front of their face very much.

ALL
IS
MAGICK

MAGICK
IS
ALL

Quit the night and seek the day.

Just remember to wear sunscreen.

Also, you may experience a time period where you are doubting your health and especially your sanity...

So it is a reminder. Your health is fleeting and your sanity is insane to begin with. Go insane and fly by the brink of death....

Only then, after purged of your stupid idiotic questioning self (the lame dog deserving to be put out of its misery), will you know what magick is.

It is a realization and a manipulation of the One Thing.

It is the hardest thing to do. Before you can learn to control it.... you must die.

Don't take words lightly here. Death is very mch a part of making true magick work.

The theory behind this is as such:


We are all points of light in a great and infinite chain of ponts of light. However, we are also this great infinite chain of light within our one point. Every point is infinite and whole in its own. Every point literally creates its own world. Right now, this is my world. Once I die, maybe I'll come back to the same world and view my current self from another perspective. I am, was, and will be all of you, all atoms, all worlds, all solar systems, stars, galaxies, universes, and dimensions.


I am this... but the realization is not complete. There lies a heavy sea of confusion, fear, thought, obligation, sorrow, and material attachment which separates us from our glowing center.

The goal of magick, alchemy, hermetics, and to a lesser degree Jungian psychology and psychology in general (although it fools itself to believe it is something else...LoL)... really, the whole goal of life itself.... is to find your secret center, your inner Sol O' Man...
and to merge yourself with it. If you achieve a merger with your point of emanation... you become one with everything around you quite literally, and that is because everything within your sphere of consciousness is a shadow of your secret center....

This is the SCIENCE of Magick.... not the myth of magick. All the Gods and Goddesses and Angels and Demons summoned in the course of a Magickal awakening are but Tools, to be used by man.... yes, we use the Gods..... as stepping stools to greater knowledge and awareness of our Oneness with the One Thing.

In science, you may understand general theories from a distance... but actually applying the general theories requires years of training, years of studying and applying lesser degrees of knowledge which to you may seem very trivial and frustrating because you just wanna know how to be an astrophysicist, so why do you need to know about the mating habits of Indo-Aryan nomads?

Years of trial and error. In my opinion, magick is not meant to gain you any real merit in the lifetime you begin pursuit of its truth. Your whole life may be a trial, one giant painful initiation into greater mysteries. There may not be benefit for you here and now in this lifetime. You may feel as though you are failing.... but let me tell you why I still have faith in one universal religion... one universal Thing which makes kings out of animals...

I still have faith in failure because once you understand what magick really is, the only thing which makes sense is failure. The greatest successes have come from the most devastating failures. Indeed, if the Greatest Failure of our time were never to come (Do we have a watch handy? The time is getting close to nigh), we would not have any guage by which to measure our Next Greatest Success.

Life is Sorrow. Enjoy the sorrow, because it is your only teacher. Everything else is a lie.Everything else is a pacifier. The evil things in life are our greatest allies in the pursuit of Truth. May the good things die. May the evil become the immortalized Good. The feigned good is the Devil in a Blue Dress.

ALL is MAGICK. Our very being is a magickal spell, a Divine Word describing the mood of the Ineffable one.

IF you so choose to separate magick from the very dirt under your feet and the very flesh on your bones... you will not understand even a general theory of magick. You will not understand anything but witchcraft and sorcery, both of which are so hard to prove because they are completely unstable and delusional.

Indeed, most practitioners of "magick" out there are just as delusional, and if I were them, I would not be too smitten with those delusions which seem to support their material lives fairly well, even for years at a time. I believe it was Elphiaz Levi who stated that the true magician does not need the rituals, the talismans, the little trinkets and potions. The true magician drinks it all in as pieces of a giant map that points to one simple center. It's so eay to say the we understand "Oneness" and all that hippy bullshit.... but have you ever actually achieved Oneness? Do you really even want to? Or do you want to believe that your rituals and your regalia and your talismans and trinkets are actually meaningful? I don't think you want Truth, my friends. Not even the most militant truth seeker wants truth.

For the true magician, it doesn't matter if you want to or not. You're going to, and you are also going to find out must likely that you don't like truth so much when it's not just a mere concept to be discussed round table with a bunch of people faking intellectualism. Fuck intellectuals. They die along with everything else illusory in the pursuit of magick. All of your opinions, all of your personal qualities, all of your prejudices, all of your offenses.... fuck them. They don't mean shit. You fucking jew, you fucking nigger, you fucking bitch lesbo retard republican democrat Chink Spick.... alll of your stupid little victimizations die as well. If what preceeded this really offendd you, I wold seriously rccomend steering clear of true magick. It is not for you. It is only for those who are willing to die. Are you willing to die, to kill all your loved ones, to destroy the world?

No? You're not willing to rape, pillage, murder, commit genocide, commit suicide, commit all forms of blasphemy and sin and sickness known to man?

You are not willing to do these things?

How can you reach the highest Heaven if you haven't first gone to the Deepest Hell? The gates to the Holy Kingdom are only opened for Tyrants.

It's definitely not a road oft traveled. It's a dangerous road, full of all sorts of hardships... and is it worth it in the end?

I don't know. The true magician can go fuck himself just as much as anyone else.

[Cogburn]

Hazelnut summoned up this video again, and Royal asked for commentary. I wanted to really give this some attention, so rather than completely pollute the 9/11 thread, I figured I'd perform a little thread necromancy.

I am going to proceed through this series, video by video, minute by minute, and highlight every single inaccuracy claimed and provide correct information regarding the error.

First, if you've been following the Illuminati and 9/11 threads, I am one that believes that, if anything, this was an anti-masonic event and not one perpetrated by masons, but may have been perpetrated by another hermetic organizations.

vkwBjLG1ULA

@1:30 - There is a common misperception amongst new agers and conspiracy theorists alike that the stars that comprise the "belt" of the figure in the Orion constellation matches the pattern of the three Great Pyramids at Giza. This, of course, is false.

Dr. Greg Little, offered an article for Alternate Perceptions Magazine #113 (June 2007) entitled "Orion-Giza Theory Takes Another Hit—Pyramid Shaft Aligments To Stars Now Doubted (http://www.mysterious-america.net/oriontheorytakes.html)."

I won't belabor this post with the findings, however suffice it to mention that Andrew Collins showed how the three crossbar stars of the norther constellation of Cygnus actually fit the three pyramids better (http://www.mysterious-america.net/cygnus-orion.html) than Orion's belt, and do so without having to rotate the entire sky.

While the attribution of "as above, so below" is correct, the context of applying it to the corrolation between the stars in Orion's Belt and the Pyramids at Giza is completely in error.

@3:00 The All Seeing Eye of freemasonry is not the Eye of Horus. The depictions are analogus, but it is within the details that indicate a differing symbolic value. For instance, the Eye of Horus is always depicted as the right eye, while the All Seeing Eye may be either eye, or depicted as bearing no particular situation. Within occult methodology, such distinctions are not made lightly, as is even indicated in the video at later points. Yes, you'll see freemasons make the same mistake, however not all freemasons are hermeticists.

@5:30 The symbol on the chest of the God of Reflections is the Triple Tau.

A CONCEALED KEY

An example of Kabbalistic insight may be applied to the celebrated insignia in Chapters of Royal Arch Freemasonry -- the Triple Tau. The Ritual gives several mottos which seem to allude to a concealed treasure or hidden truth:
Templum Hierosolyma (“The Temple of Jerusalem”)
Clavis ad Thesaurum (“A key to a treasure”)
Theca ubi res pretiosa deponitur (“A place where a precious thing is concealed”)
Res ipsa pretiosa (“The precious thing itself')
There continues to be much speculation about this “treasure” and connections with the Knight Templar and mystic Rosicrucians. Perhaps these riches are much closer than we think, and of a decidedly different nature.
Kenneth Mackenzie, in his Royal Masonic Cyclopaedia, describes the Triple Tau:
Anciently the Tau was a mystical sign, not at all like the square letter Hebrew, but more cruciform, and almost identical with the ankh of the Egyptians, otherwise known as the Crux ansata. It was a mark in use among many ancient nations, and not peculiar to the Jews; and it is found among the Hindus, and these last placed it on the foreheads of their disciples. It was a symbol of salvation and consecration, and as such has been adopted as a Masonic symbol in the Royal Arch and in some other degrees of high Masonry.

General Albert Pike, writing from his office as Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry in his monumental tome Morals & Dogma, further adds:

The triple Tau, in the center of a circle and a triangle, typifies the Sacred Name; and represents the Sacred Triad, the Creating, Preserving, and Destroying Powers; as well as the three great lights of Masonry. If to the Masonic point within a Circle, and the two parallel lines, we add the single Tau Cross, we have the Ancient Egyptian Triple Tau.

A column in the form of a cross, with a circle over it, was used by the Egyptians to measure the increaswe of the inundations of the Nile. The Tau and Triple Tau are found in many Ancient Alphabets.

With the Tau or the Triple Tau may be connected, within two circles, the double cube, or perfection; or the perfect ashlar.

The Crux Ansata is found on the sculptures of Khorsabad; on the ivories from Nimroud, of the same age, carried by an Assyrian Monarch; and on cylinders of the later Assyrian period.

As the single Tau represents the one God, so, no doubt, the Triple Tau, the origin of which cannot be traced, was meant to represent the Trinity of his attributes, the three Masonic pillars, Wisdom, Strength, and Harmony.

The One God alluded to above is further described in Exodus 3:13 – 15:
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Other considerations of the nature of this hidden treasure aside, there is concealed Kabbalistically the very Triple Tau itself within these passages of the Bible.
The Hebrew name of the Great Architect of the Universe that is translated as “I Am That I Am” is ???? ??? ???? .
The Atbash cipher of Hebrew notariqon is a simple substitution cipher that takes the Hebrew alphabet and splits it in half and reverses it, substituting the corresponding letters; ? transmutes to ?, ? changes to ?, ? to ?, and so on; essentially reversing the entire alphabet.
Applying the Atbash cipher to this Name of the Highest God, the three initial ?’s of the phrase are transformed into three ?’s, thus revealing the Triple Tau.[ii]
Through the application of Kabbalistic inquiry, this symbol may thus be seen as a representation of the name of the Most High, showing that the true hidden treasure of the Freemasonry is not necessarily buried underneath the Temple of Solomon (or Rosslyn Chapel!), but is concealed in the hidden chambers of our hearts.
It is the reflection of the Triple Tau that creates the masonic cross. To say that it is the same as the Maltese cross is incorrect in that the Maltese cross has a different story of generation.

The eight points of the Maltese cross symbolise the eight beatitudes of Christ's Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5.3-10):
The poor in spirit, They who mourn, They who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, The meek, The peacemakers, They who hunger and thirst for righteousness, The pure in heart, The merciful

The Maltese Cross is also interpreted as a symbol of the eight chivalric virtues:
Observation, Tact, Resource, Dexterity, Sympathy, Perseverance, Discrimination, Explicitness

Another theory considers the eight points of the Maltese Cross a symbol for the eight langues of the Order of Malta:
Provence, Auvergne, France, Aragon, Italy, Germany, England, Castilia

What is known as the Maltese Cross was originally the symbol of Amalfi, a small Italian republic of the 11th century

@6:00 The attribution of the use of reflecting pools as a reflection of a hermetic maxim is a bit disingenuous. Reflecting pools in architecture have been used in a variety of cultures for the same reason. The Taj Mahal being the first of such structures that comes to mind.

@6:37 The author connects the use of such esoteric sciences to the Illuminati without ever creating the causal connection. This is done throughout the video. It is offered that the usage of such symbolism are hallmarks of the Illuminati, however our Illumianti thread (http://amkon.net/showthread.php?t=24285) has shown the opposite: that these beliefs long pre-existed any groups connected to freemasonry or the 18th century AISB.

@7:30 The author attempts to connect (through plagiarism, mind you) the Federal Triangle to the triangle of stars surrounding Virgo, however no "as above, so below" representation of Virgo is ever submitted. What then, would be the reason for replicating the triangle?

Furthermore, Federal Triangle was a set of office buildings constructed in the 1930s by an act of Congress. The name "Federal Triangle" didn't even exist until that time.

This link contains an image of Federal Triangle in 2002. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Federal_Triangle_USGS_2002.jpg)

Furthermore, if you actually look at a fucking map, you can see that the Washington Monument, the White House and the Capitol building DO NOT FORM A RIGHT TRIANGLE.

The white triangle is the area called Federal Triangle as it has been known for nearly 100 years. The red area connects the front steps of all three buildings mentioned and shows that a right triangle is not possible.

http://i47.tinypic.com/25zni93.jpg

@7:55 Casting an astrological chart for 9/11 should confirm all this, right? So let's do that.

911Timeline.net (http://www.911timeline.net/) states that the first plane impacted the north tower at 8:46:26 a.m.

Pluto and Saturn are not in opposition. At that moment, Saturn was 14° in Gemini and Pluto was 12° in Sagittarius. While the difference is only 2°, this is not a true opposition. One might say "missed it by [] that much." One might make the argument that 2° is close enough, however the difference is important in this case: Pluto and Saturn entered those positions on August 25th and remained that way until October 4th. September 11th does not even fall within the apex for that period, which would have fallen on the 14th or 15th. Given what we now know of the events of that Tuesday, if a maxmimum amount of life were to be lost and such far ahead planning were done, that Friday would have been an infinitely better choice of dates and that would have been quite obvious to the ritualist planning the events. As a ritualist myself, the term "sloppy" comes to mind, especially for something being conducted on such a scale.

Oh, and the video has the zodiac upside down.

http://i48.tinypic.com/s4t36h.jpg

A full reading of that particular opposition has Saturn in the Third House, or House of Communications and Pluto in the Ninth House, or House of Philosophy. These, being in opposition, are contradictory in meaning: long and short travel, communities and far flung relationships, culture versus society, etc.

There's no mention of the opposition between Uranus and Venus, or the opposition between Mars and the North Node, although maybe that's covered in the second video.

I'll give the author points for a creative interpretation of the astrology of 9/11. The fixation does seem to be on the part of the author, however.

Part Two to follow shortly.

[Cogburn]

zBWeR6O9CAo
Video #2 starts off with a brief recap of the first video.

@1:57 I didn't address the errors made in the astrological interpretation of the meaning of the planets, but will do so at this time. The author of the video mixes metaphors as do most pop-culture astrologers, however given the attribution of events to secret hermetic societies such as the Golden Dawn, it is more appropriate to use their representation of the meaning of the planets.

The following is the Golden Dawn interpretation of the astrological importance of Saturn from their own materials.

In the English and Roman cultures, Saturn is referred to as the god that gives birth to her children and then consumes them afterwards. In Greek, Saturn is referred to as "Chronos", otherwise known as "Father Time." In Hebrew we refer to Saturn as
the Sphere of Shabbathai. The Olympic Planetary Spirit is Arathor. The basic description of Saturn is that of loftiness, sometimes considered as mourning or brooding, the force of constriction and crystallization. Saturn has a strong affinity with the land of the depths of the Earth, the advancing of age, and with the long passage of time. It also has an affect on our artistic creativity and the bringing of ideas into material form. Saturn can be a very positive or negative planet depending on how it is used. It deals magically with invisibility. It also deals with karma. Saturn is attributed to the sphere of hnyb. Saturn is often times referred to as, "The Parent of Faith," because from it, in its essential nature, faith does proceed. It has an elemental affinity with Earth. The planetary figure is the triangle.

Saturn affects the physiological functions in the following ways. It governs the skin, all bones, teeth, the structure and the cartilages. It also governs the spleen, the glands, and the knees in particular. Skin afflictions such as leprosy, eczema and scurvy can be the negative result of Saturn. Restricted afflictions such as impeded circulation and rheumatism, as well as atrophies and maladies can come under Saturn's influence.

One of the deities attributed to Saturn is Nephthys, the sister of Isis, "The Mysterious One, Self Born", "The Self Existent One", "The Everlasting Goddess and Concealed One", "The Mistress of the Spindle and the Loom", "Lady of Heaven and of the West", "Lady of Sais." Her magical image or god form is the one who wears the red crown. She may also be adorned with the old kingdom headdress surmounted by the symbol of the shuttle. She carries with her the two crossed arrows and the bow. She also bears with her the Ankh accompanied sometimes with the Papyrus or the Ouas, "The Scepter of Peaceful Authority".

One other Egyptian god form associated with Saturn is Ptah. He is "The Celestial Artificer", "The First Father", "The Primal Power of the Beginnings", "The Fashioner of the Firmament and Pattern of the Sun and Moon", "The Architect of all that is." Ptah's image is seated upon his throne, but at times he may be standing. He is the god that wears the ceremonial beard which is usually very long and pointed. He normally wears a circling band around his bald head. His body is tightly wrapped, signifying his character as a spirit who moves within "The Wrappings of Form of Creations." Creation comes from the sphere of hnyb. Saturn is in fact part and parcel in hnyb. Ptah bears the Ankh accompanied with the Tut symbol. He is known as "The Lord of Stability."

Another Egyptian god form referred to Saturn is that of Harpocrates, the child Horus. This aspect is included in later workings dealing with Invisibility. This particular god form is the "Sign of Silence." Saturn is enshrouded in mystery, Darkness, and silence.

Also ascribed to Saturn is the goddess Isis, known as "The Mourning One", "The Maternal Mother who gives birth to the world and all creation through restriction." She fits better with the sphere of hnyb than that of Saturn, although she at times has been attributed to the Saturn/hnyb combination. From an astrological point of view, the aspects of Saturn, as well as the house it rules, indicates how a person expresses the capacity for self discipline and where and how they build structure in their life. Without a well-developed influence of Saturn, an individual cannot go far in life because the discipline and experiences that are necessary to acquire are lacking in an afflicted Saturn. Saturn is also a very karmic planet. Its aspects in regards to other planets show how a person is to fulfill himself or to correct mistakes of the past, thus acquiring valuable experience in doing so and redeeming the deficiencies of one's nature.

A person with a heavily afflicted Saturn can be selfish and rigid in their attitudes. Also, it can cause problems in social interactions which can lead to a lot of misfortunes and personal limitations. People who have a strong influence of Saturn in their natal chart are ambitious in nature. The Great Work becomes very important to this person. One final note on the planet of Saturn.
According to the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn system of magic, it is used for all general magical workings. The reason for this is that the planet Saturn is known as a general working planet. Being in ---- contributes to the fact that it is a general working planet in the pursuit of developing better relationships and understanding between the person and the planet. It is always important to consider working with the specific planetary influence as opposed to simply
using a general energy in many cases.

Whoops. It would seem that the author of the video was completely off the mark. Let's now look at Pluto.

In the Golden Dawn tradition the planets of Neptune and Pluto are not widely used. However, the North and South Nodes of the Moon, Caput Draconis and Cauda Draconis, were used to give more specific details in natal chart work. We still feel that
these nodes should be used because they do give an indepth look at the natal chart.

We consider, in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Pluto and Neptune more generational and Aeon-type planets than we do specific planets. Aspects of the North Node determine relationships to prevailing social trends and attitudes in their use of opportunities afforded by history in the making. The North Node brings occasions for increase as a Jupititerian connotation. Aspects of the South Node indicate what habit tendencies rising out of our past experience influence our present attitudes and behavior. Also, the South Nodes show the karmic influence of our past conduct. The South Node has a Saturn type influence and connotation. Since the beginning of time, occultists have been using the Moon for various magical workings. Invocations are done in the proper planetary hour and time in accordance with the Moon. Also, you will notice that most invocations are done on a waxing Moon, banishings are done on a waning Moon, and of course the dark Moon or no Moon at all is usually a time of inner growth, pathworking, and inner travel. The Moon again is a very powerful planet, particularly when it comes to sexual desire and urges as well as fertility in one's life.

Well that just wraps it up. Oh, note the part in the last paragraph above where it indicates that "most invocations are done on a waxing Moon, banishings are done on a waning Moon." Just for shits and giggles, let's check the phases of the moon for 9/11/2001.

http://i47.tinypic.com/6tfv2a.jpg

That, my friends, is a wanning moon.

A "banishing" within the hermetic systems is an exercise that helps clear away the engergies from a particular area. Think of it as a process of sterilization for a hermetic workspace. If you've ever been to Ground Zero, you know that the area is far from sterile: it's hard for even the most agnostic amongst us to not be there without a sense of those who died. On a more temporal level, that area is still an international hub for trade and commerce, so that certainly wasn't banished.

I think that perhaps our friend that created this video doesn't really understand heremetic science as much as he would lead one to believe.

This, at least, gives us a foundation to skip a lot of the material with a simple nod towards the basic inaccuracy without delving back into this level of detail.

@3:55 WRONG! The North Tower of the World Trade Center had its topping off ceremony on December 23, 1970 and the first tenants moved in that same week. The topping off ceremony for the south tower was July 19, 1971. Source: PBS Timeline: World Trade Center chronology (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/newyork/timeline/)

However, for July 19, 1971 Saturn is indeed 3° in Gemini. For December 23, 1970, Saturn is in Taurus.

The author of the film is being disingenuous by only utilizing the completion of the South Tower as the "birthday" of the WTC complex. It is completely arbtrary given that WTC7 was also destroyed, but was completed much later in March of 1987.

@4:14 April 4, 1973 puts Saturn at 15° in Gemini, not anywhere near "the exact same area" as claimed in the video. Again, the attribution of importance between Saturn/Gemini and the WTC is only based upon the South Tower, and not both towers, making the comparision meaningless.

However, the corrolation between the position of Saturn within Gemini is incorrect for the opening ceremony, as the zodiac is in a completely different house, thereby given the reading a different meaning. This greater procession of the zodiac is completely ignored throughout the video.

http://i46.tinypic.com/oppvkg.jpg

@5:05 The Scottish Rite Seal of Solomon and the Salomon Building attribution is laughable, even if one attempts to "stand back" and see the "big picture." Except... there's nothing like that within the Scottish Rite. Just because one jurisdiction decides to design their emblems of office one way as opposed to another has little to with the meaning of the symbol within freemasonry at large: it says more about the jurisdiction, itself. This is often overlooked by those who care little for the details of the truth. You see, all jewels and regalia related to freemasonry have to be made somewhere and luckily we all live in the 21st Century and there's this thing called the internet.

Google Search: Scottish Rite Regalia (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS322US322&um=1&q=Scottish%20Rite%20regalia&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw&tbo=0). Can you find anyone that sells that? Do you notice how everyone sells something different?

The spoiler below contains images scanned directly from the Encyclopedia of Freemasonry regarding the definition of the Seal of Solomon.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2r738d1.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/jijdj6.jpg

@5:42 At this point the "five direct links" between the astrological significance are slowly dwindling in number and the remainder looking more tenuous as the series progresses.

@6:21 The picture is that of someone being prepared for the degree of Entered Apprentice, the first degree of freemasonry. Again, all masonic lodges are decorated differently. Not all bear the Seal of Solomon. (http://amkon.net/inside-masonic-lodge-t23135.html?t=23135&highlight=masonic+lodge)

@7:14 The 10th Kingdom... well, ya got me. Sure does look analogous, but then there's a whole wikipedia page dedicated to such oddities with 9/11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_in_popular_culture).

There's six parts to the series and I'm starting to feel like I'm ingesting the intellectual equivalent of McDonald's. That's enough for one day.

As always, any and all comments or arguments are more than welcome, appreciated, and returned with as much respect as they are presented. :twisted:

[Hazelnut]

I just woke up and found you updating this thread with the video I have in my signature. Very cool. I'm looking forward to your interpretation of the mistakes you find and your explanation.

Thumbs up!

[anarch]

I do not believe in magic. Not in the abracadabra sense of the word.

I do believe our thoughts become reality. The more focused the thoughts the more powerful the expression of them in reality.

The NY pick three lottery of September Eleventh 2002 is a prime example.

[Cogburn]

I just woke up and found you updating this thread with the video I have in my signature. Very cool. I'm looking forward to your interpretation of the mistakes you find and your explanation.

Thumbs up!

While the original BBCode has been mangled, Ducky stumbled across these videos last September. When Royal brought it up, I remembered that this thread existed.

I don't mind when people hate on my particular interests, I just ask they hate on them for accurate reasons. :)

[anarch]

Isn't hate an irrational emotion based on misunderstanding and frustration.

[Cogburn]

Consider the individual that put potentially hundreds of hours into the composition of these videos.

Do you think that person and his partner would accept a single thing in this thread, much less discuss it rationally?

Misunderstanding may not always be unintentional.

[anarch]

Misunderstanding may not always be unintentional.

LOL tell me about it!

[Hazelnut]

I don't mind when people hate on my particular interests, I just ask they hate on them for accurate reasons. :smile:

I'm fascinated by the themes presented in the video series in question. Part of the fascination comes from the observation that this area of study is as polluted and corrupt as mainstream religion. There are so many authorities and schools of thought which oppose one another that it is difficult to sort the chaff from the wheat so-to-speak.

I appreciate that you (Cogburn) are taking the time to disseminate and explain the discrepancies you perceive. Its helps me to narrow down my own interpretation with yet another point of reference.

I happen to believe in "As Above So Below", I just don't intellectually understand it all yet, maybe I never will. There are so many clues that lead to dead ends and it is frustrating.

I'm realizing that in order to understand much of hermetic knowledge, I'll need to first learn astrology. From the little I do comprehend, astrology seems to be the foundation of all esoteric matters. Is this correct?

My father was a 3rd Degree Master Mason. If he were still living, I would ask him for confirmation on many of my questions.

I suspect that most Masons are not well versed in esoteric knowledge. I could be wrong and would be surprised if told this was not the case with "most" members of the fraternity.

[Cogburn]

I try not to beat this stuff into the ground, so I don't opine on it much. Lately I've felt inspired, and it's always nice to know when the effort is appreciated; it's not everyone's cup of tea.

There are many ways by which one might choose to enter into hermetic studies.

Astrological representations of the planets and their meanings are an "as above, so below" analogy, but not that as presented in the video series. Each of the planets of the zodiac finds an analog within the Tree of Life. As the Tree of Life is taken as a representation of the structure of God's creation, it is that which is "above". Therefore it is the astronomical planetary body seen in the night sky which then becomes the "below". It is the application of this planetary aspect of the each of the sephiroth to the astronomical body seen in the night sky that is the spring from which the draws the power of hermetic astrology. That's not to downplay the implications of then representing such powers on Earth, but it is important to understand the direction from which things flow, so to speak.

The Corpus Hermetica is the primary Gnostic text upon which "hermetic" science is derived and the original was a Greek manuscript referenced as early as the time of Aristotle. The correlation between ancient Greek mythology and hermetic science is not by accident.

For as small a percentage of men that become freemasons, an equally small number of freemasons are in turn interested in the esoteric, hermetic aspects of the art they practice.

[Hazelnut]

Is there a significant distinction between "esoteric" and "hermetic" knowledge? And Gnostic?

Are each of these terms based on the civilizations that founded (discovered/practiced) the teachings?

[Cogburn]

Something "esoteric" is something not well known, as opposed to something "exoteric" which is well known.

"Gnostic" is a blanket term for any spiritual teachings that suggests that an individual might unite with their creator on a spiritual or physical level. The Catholic act of communion is a gnostic practice, as one "communes" or "becomes one with" Jesus Christ.

"Hermetic" refers to anything derived from the Corpus Hermeticum or works otherwise attributed to the author Hermes Trismegistus. "Trismegistus" is Greek for "thrice great," which refers to the traditional method of referencing Greek deities. This infers that "Hermes The Thrice Great" is the messenger god and guardian of hidden knowledge in Greek mythology, Hermes.

The true author is unknown, however it was developed in analog to Aristotle's writings and covers nearly all of the same topics, however from a perspective that does not remove the spiritual nature of existence. As our modern world is based upon Aristotle, so I consider hermetics a science equivalent to any other, though woefully underdeveloped due to centuries of neglect in order to accommodate more materialistic pursuits.

[Hazelnut]

Something "esoteric" is something not well known, as opposed to something "exoteric" which is well known.

"Gnostic" is a blanket term for any spiritual teachings that suggests that an individual might unite with their creator on a spiritual or physical level. The Catholic act of communion is a gnostic practice, as one "communes" or "becomes one with" Jesus Christ.

"Hermetic" refers to anything derived from the Corpus Hermeticum or works otherwise attributed to the author Hermes Trismegistus. "Trismegistus" is Greek for "thrice great," which refers to the traditional method of referencing Greek deities. This infers that "Hermes The Thrice Great" is the messenger god and guardian of hidden knowledge in Greek mythology, Hermes.

The true author is unknown, however it was developed in analog to Aristotle's writings and covers nearly all of the same topics, however from a perspective that does not remove the spiritual nature of existence. As our modern world is based upon Aristotle, so I consider hermetics a science equivalent to any other, though woefully underdeveloped due to centuries of neglect in order to accommodate more materialistic pursuits.

Great! I really appreciate the education. I found a link to the Corpus Hermeticum & Hermetic Traditions a little bit ago. http://www.gnosis.org/library/hermet.htm
The Corpus Hermeticum

Introduction to the Corpus Hermeticum (G.R.S. Mead Translation) (http://www.gnosis.org/library/hermet_intro.htm)
by John Michael Greer

I'll put my trust in your expertise and will begin here.

And just to clarify, astrology is not necessarily as integral as these teachings when trying to understand the "As Above, So Below" factor? I hope you understand what I'm asking....:)

[Cogburn]

And just to clarify, astrology is not necessarily as integral as these teachings when trying to understand the "As Above, So Below" factor? I hope you understand what I'm asking....:)

That's correct.

[Infinite`Eternal`Forever]

First off, let me tell you, I used to believe in astrology when I was younger. Still don't to this day. ANYONE can make charts and 'force' things unto their charts to make it seem that there is more to meet the eye then it should. ANYONE can read into ANY astrological newspaper and see 'what they want to see'.

It seems as if God hardened the hearts of the clowns who buy into that shit or something. Maybe one day they'll notice that they've put the creators creations before the creator and realize how retarded it all is. :D

[Cogburn]

It seems as if God hardened the hearts of the clowns who buy into that shit or something. Maybe one day they'll notice that they've put the creators creations before the creator and realize how retarded it all is. :D
Commentary on the hardening of hearts from one who portrays himself as you do made me giggle.

The creator is the creation, it is that simple fact that empowers such beliefs as outlined in this thread.

Philosophy fail.

[Infinite`Eternal`Forever]

Commentary on the hardening of hearts from one who portrays himself as you do made me giggle.

The creator is the creation, it is that simple fact that empowers such beliefs as outlined in this thread.

Philosophy fail.

Cog, you're a smart guy and all but if you ever want me to take you serious just lose the Quaqmire avi for at least 5 mins. Everytime I read one of your posts I just can't help but hear his voice and it makes the whole fucking thing comical. :p

[Hazelnut]

... Everytime I read one of your posts I just can't help but hear his voice and it makes the whole fucking thing comical. :p

That's exactly what my kid said. :D

[Infinite`Eternal`Forever]

That's exactly what my kid said. :D

Haha.

[Cogburn]

qv7DACct0Mc

On to video three. I'm not going to go over old ground just because the author of the video chooses to do so ad nauseum. I'll just be picking apart the bits of new information presented from here on out.

Once all six videos are complete, we'll go back through and re-tell the story from the bits of information that are factually supported and see what it really looks like.

Suffice it to say that the first few minutes of the film rehash what we are supposed to believe is a hermetic conspiracy that utilizes non-hermetic, pop-culture interpretations of astrology. It kinda renders the whole argument moot, but whatever. It didn't stop this guy from making six videos.

I digress.

@5:52 Francis Bacon was indeed a hermetic ritualist and protege to John Dee, but his membership in freemasonry or the Rosicrucians has never been proven beyond inference. While Bacon did make many contributions to the hermetic arts, being the "grandfather of modern freemasonry" is not one of them. Freemasonry was officially established in 1717, and it was only at that point that membership rosters were kept. The fraternity was instituted in situ, meaning it existed prior to its "official" creation. The earliest source documents for the philosophy and ritual have existed in the British Museum of History. The oldest is the Regius Poem, dated by independent scholars to the 14th century, and the Cooke Manuscript, which has also been independently dated to the 15th century, 100 years before Bacon was born. The Cooke Manuscript outlines speculative freemasonry in almost the exact form as it is practiced today.
Regius Poem (http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/regius.html)
Cooke Manuscript (http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/cooke.html)

@6:13 The Round Table Group and the Society of the Elect are old hat for conspiracy buffs, so I won't labor it here. Suffice it to say that freemasonic connections are bandied about pretty liberally, however other, more "normal" connections along the same lines are ignored. For instance, all of the members of the SotE and the RTG were protestants, but not all of them were freemasons.

@6:58 Oh c'mon. "Why the secrecy?" Because the CFR serves agendas that those in Wyoming would object to. Hermetics need not apply. Sometimes a rose is just a rose.

@7:45 More facepalms. Could it be that Pluto was named Pluto because most of the other major gods in the pantheon already had a planet? More roses.

@9:40 OMG.. May 1st... May Day? Really? Dude left out a lot of information about May 1st, so much so to be a lie of omission. This time I'll let Wikipedia be your guide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Day

Half way done. Once this is finished my hope is that no one will ever have to subject themselves to this series ever again, and simply link this thread in rebuttal.

[Cogburn]

JedcoT_wwjc

Video four. I had initially intended to only two videos a day for three days, but since most of the information presented is fruit of hte poisonous tree, it can be wholesale disregarded. Given that I am just focusing now on the highlights, I might even finish this series tonight.

This video actually takes a bit more of a scholarly turn, with valid references for Jochin and Boaz and their exoteric and esoteric meanings within freemasonry and hermetics.

@2:55 However, at this point we begin to depart from verifiable truth with the re-inclusion of the Seal of Solomon and the author's misrepresntation of its meaning within freemasonry.

@4:38 MAJOR MISTAKE! Pluto is not included in the hermetic Tree of Life! The planetary attributions for each sephirot are as follows:

Moon = Yesod
Mars = Geburah
Mercury = Hod
Jupiter = Cesed
Venus = Netzach
Saturn = Binah (or Daath, depending on the model)
Sun = Tiphareth

http://emeagwali.com/speeches/immortality/Qabbalah-Tree-of-Life.jpg

There are but only seven celestial bodies relevant to hermetic science, because that is all the ancient astronomers could observe, and within hermetic science there was only seven references that required planetary attribution. The inclusion of Pluto is a mid-20th century addition to the equation and does not have a correspondance upon the Tree of Life.

Some people in modern times have attributed Saturn to Binah and Pluto to Daath, but that is not widely used or accepted. It is most often found employed by new agers that have adopted pseudo-hermetic elements to their philosophy.

@8:00 All of the information presented is accurate and the connections between, Jochin, Boaz, the Caryatid and the solar calendar are quite valid in my opinion. However, being a 21st century American, "discovering" yet-another-masonic-construction is a little underwhelming.

We're cruising now...

[Cogburn]

GD8LlGOZieA
This is getting really easy and the end is in sight! On we go to number five!

@1:45 The attribution of the influence of the sun to the first responders is so thin as to be transparent. A really bad interpretation by any account.

@4:50 Total screwup! The application of the procession of the equinoxes is first explained incorrectly, and second, if applied to the chart as the author of the video incorrectly indicated, it would move Saturn into Taurus and Pluto into Scorpio, invalidating the entire theory!. Oops!

@7:30 Again the author uses a new age, non-hermetic Tree of Life to create the motivation for a hermetic conspiracy. This is simply poor research and poor understanding of hermetic science.

[Cogburn]

l3HWAi9yoSc

The first few minutes of the sixth video are a primer in basic astrology.

There's not much to comment upon since it is basically a history lesson in the comings and goings of 18th century freemasons, and an apparent corrolation between those individuals and their birth charts and that of the United States.

It just goes off into insane directions without ever attempting to create the causal link between the information presented to any theory, much less the theory presented in the first five videos.

We find Osama Bin Laden inserted into the equation. It's interesting to notice that the author of the video never casts the birth charts of the two people so prominent in the events of 9/11, George W. Bush and Osama Bin Laden.

Okay... Done... We'll do a run through on what's left as far as truth in the next few days, unless someone wants to jump in there and start. :)