The War on You

[Jackinthebox]

Yet another shining example of how the war on drugs has turned into the war on you, trampling all Consitutional rights in the name of a "safer" society.

DEA and NYPD storm wrong apartment looking for crime boss, rattle family (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/09/11/2009-09-11_dea_storms_wrong_apt_rattles_family.html)

Ar least no one was shot or killed this time. Or sent to prison just because, like in the case of Tracy Ingle. He was shot in his bed in the middle of the night by police executing a no-knock warrant, and then sent to prison even though they found nothing. Then there is the old grandma with a walker who was killed when police got the wrong house. There are many many more innocent casualties of these no-knock warrants. More than you hear about.

http://www.hardnation.org/images/police_state.jpg

[Lexion]

The shit does happen.

Not just in big cities, either.

I don't see it as a police state, much
more of shitty police work.

Since two raids were happening at
the same time, maybe they thought
it was a drop house.

Who knows.

Either way, they fucked up.

[Jackinthebox]

http://www.justicefortracy.com/

[Jackinthebox]

The shit does happen.

Not just in big cities, either.

I don't see it as a police state, much
more of shitty police work.

Since two raids were happening at
the same time, maybe they thought
it was a drop house.

Who knows.

Either way, they fucked up.

Don't be a frog in the pot on the stove. This should NEVER be allowed to happen. The founding fathers are rolling over in their graves with this shit. "Shitty police work" is no excuse for shredding up the Constitution. How many innocents must be violated and killed before people wake up and realize that the Constitution was mean to PROTECT US FROM THE GOVERNMENT, not to empower the government.

[Lexion]

[offsite:m6mpz8ye]Tracy is being charged with two felony counts of Aggravated Assault, drug paraphernalia and running a drug premises.[/offsite:m6mpz8ye]

Why did they raid him in the
first place ?

And there is a reason for no-knock
warrants.

Catch them by surprise.

Plus, anyone dumb enough to brandish
a "non functioning" weapon is an idiot.

[Cogburn]

Kindly state the ongoing necessity of the Drug War in relation to a fantasy "War on You" if we've been in a state of martial law since the end of the Civil War.

We could just always chalk it up to reality continuing to be woefully unsupportive of most conspiracy theory.

[theeindiee]

The only police state is the one in your head. Be careful what you wish for. I am me, I am free. Anyone who tells me otherwise can go fuck themselves, because they obviously have no understanding of natural law. If you're smart, the police can be quite helpful. If this paranoia keeps spreading like it has been, you just watch as your police state happens precisely because of that paranoia. You think the "elites" of the world don't have a grasp of internet media yet? You think that if they didn't want you to know something, they wouldn't be allowing BARNES AND NOBLE to be selling you "the truth"? Maybe you are free. Maybe you have access to any piece of any kind of knowledge/wisdom that you choose to have. Maybe it's so much so that you can literally build your life to work in accordance with your chosen mode of awareness.

Herein lies the distraction. Get angry at them. That way you can relinquish your responsibility for your own fucking life. Oh guess what you have just given them by buying into this bullshit?
Power!

Don't be mistaken.... drug dealers, and especially large dealers worth raiding.... are not people you want living in your community, man.

Thank god somebody's got the balls to take on those twisted motherfuckers. War on me?

Who's the government shill here? Seriously...

You want the gov't to just turn a blind eye to drug cartels infecting our neighborhoods and our youth? Neighborhood Watch Versus the Latin Kings or the Vicelords or the Crips.... hmmm who would win???

Listen... there's police corruption on high, no doubt... but there are more good cops than bad cops in the system as a whole.... and believe me, I have been on your perspective.... but your perspective is one of PURE victimization, and fucking ya know... if you approach cops with a "fuck your authority" attitude, believe me.... you've given them authority to treat you like a fucking asshole.

Seriously.... I don't want drug dealing to become legal. No fucking way. You think that merging the world's largest illegal criminal organizations with the world's largest LEGAL criminal organizations is a good opportunity for justice?

That's fucking retarded.

Rant off.

PS - The argument for or against what you can do to your own body is a valuable discussion to have... but I sit and ponder.... do I trust 99.9999 percent of the idiots out there to know what's good for them? Maybe if I were on top of the world, I would be able to see just a bit more of the bigger picture. Maybe I could actively see, just by the liberties given, how much people take for granted and abuse those liberties. Do I give the sheep (who rightfully choose their sheepishness) MORE nice things to shit all over?

I like people... but I don't underestimate the idiocy of most, even the intellectuals. The intellectuals may be even more idiotic than the meatheads. Righteously indignated idiocy is no less idiotic, in my opinion.

[Jackinthebox]

Kindly state the ongoing necessity of the Drug War in relation to a fantasy "War on You" if we've been in a state of martial law since the end of the Civil War.

We could just always chalk it up to reality continuing to be woefully unsupportive of most conspiracy theory.

I don't see any necessity for a drug war. But if you don't think there is a war on you, then I suppose you're just a good little sheep. Go get on line fool.

[Jackinthebox]

Gotta run folks, catch you on the flip.

[theeindiee]

The "elites" are people.... just like you. Well... perhaps they realize a bit more about the world. There are the hordes, okay? It must be accepted that the hordes of barely conscious glorified animals exist. Look around you. We live in a country where all it takes to become well learned is an internet connection and a free library card. Look at how the hordes ignore their opportunity. They CHOOSE to be stupid and animalistic. They CHOOSE to be controlled in greater and greater amounts, because this taste of freedom is too much for the animals to handle... like a pig given a fine work of art. The pig just eats the artwork and shits out the remnants. You don't give pigs artwork and expect them to understand the significance of it. You don't give barely-there human-esque zombies the keys to whatever they want. You gotta put the hordes in a maze. The majority will panick and eat themselves alive, but there might just be a few actual minds in there.... so there's always a way out of the maze.
America is the easiest maze ever built. Just take all your opportunity in! Jesus christ. Go live in fucking Iran. Even better, Afghanistan. See how much you can get away with there without being tortured to death.

America has the opportunity to take the world into space, and the hordes are just shitting that opportunity away. I am starting to think that there might be some very profound truth to elitist philosophy. Not saying "yeah be a ruthless bastard", but just look at the patterns.. look at history. Look at our own country's progression.

Is it more probable that there IS a huge conspiracy which is just SO complex that it can't be proven or conquored? Or .....OR..... is it most probable that people have just become more and more stupid, delusional, victimized, yada yada yada..... and that all of this "liberty" we've been given has proven itself to be corrosive to the general wellbeing of the whole?

Elitism 101.... course already in progress. Understand your enemy, and perhaps your enemy will begin to understand you.

Love is compassion. Compassion is communication. When the body misunderstands the mind, the being dies.

[Jackinthebox]

[offsite:hneklmtz]Tracy is being charged with two felony counts of Aggravated Assault, drug paraphernalia and running a drug premises.[/offsite:hneklmtz]

Why did they raid him in the
first place ?

And there is a reason for no-knock
warrants.

Catch them by surprise.

Plus, anyone dumb enough to brandish
a "non functioning" weapon is an idiot.

Last thing I checked, everyone has the right to be an idiot, especially in their own home...in their own bed in the middle of the night. If you woke up to that, any of us, I dare say we wouldn't be thinking too clearly.

And no, there isn't a reason for no-knock warrants. No need to "catch them by surprise" as far as I'm concerned. The war on drugs is a failure in its stated goals, but a wonderful success in brainwashing fools into giving up their rights for a little false safety.

As far as why they raided him in the first place, well it could just as easily be that he pissed off some cop, or that he was posting shit on the internet. Who the hell knows. He pissed someone off and they came down on him with this shit. So if they find a bowl in your house, I suppose we should all believe the police when they say you were running a drug house and that you deserve to catch 18 years and a bullet in your own bed?

[theeindiee]

no knock warrant on a potentially deadly cluster of violent criminals? you mean you want police to give them the opportunity to draw their weapons before the door gets busted in? police make mistakes. nobody was hurt, and the unfortunate idiot got busted. hey... maybe the unfortunate idiot will spend his time and money on something useful from now on. I remember when I got arrested with drugs a couple of times and finally was ordered to rehab. Let's just say I had it coming. Best thing to ever happen to me was rehab. Fuck... I mean... things happen for reasons to people who are deserving, and we don't always understand those reasons right away. So... for the majority of good natured potheads out there who keep their shit together, just play it smart and you're golden.

low key idiocy is the key.

Freedom is slavery.

War is peace.

Love is hate.

Imagine the fucking wreck this society would be if drugs were legal. If nothing changed except evaporation of drug laws. Heroin is now being bought and sold on Wall Street.

Holy shit...
I'd imagine the drug lords would not give up their industry very easily, if at all.

Do you know what you ask for? Or are you just listening to too much Rage Against the Machine lately?

What happened to the wiser jack I used to know from ATS?

[Oblivion]

police state? no.

its just an example of what happens with the ongoing militarisation of your average police force.

[Jackinthebox]

police state? no.

its just an example of what happens with the ongoing militarisation of your average police force.

That sounds awfully close to being an oxymoronic sentiment.

[cartoon]

That sounds awfully close to being an oxymoronic sentiment.you meant aussie-moronic, didn't you?

[Jackinthebox]

That sounds awfully close to being an oxymoronic sentiment.you meant aussie-moronic, didn't you?

Lol. Is O an aussie? Lot of people here from down under.

[cartoon]

you mean Professor Chaos? Ozoid thru and thru! he's a longtime partner of mine in the war against assholery.

[Jackinthebox]

you mean Professor Chaos? Ozoid thru and thru! he's a longtime partner of mine in the war against assholery.

Cheers.

His statement was still contradictory though.

Why would there be militarization of police if not for a police state?

[Cogburn]

We could just go out on a limb and say....

Militarization of criminal elements?

[Jackinthebox]

We could just go out on a limb and say....

Militarization of criminal elements?

Excusing a police state, does not mean that one does not exist.

[Cogburn]

Why would there be militarization of police if not for a police state?
Asked and answered.

The problem is, you don't like the answer because it invalidates your world view.

C'est la vie.

[Jackinthebox]

Why would there be militarization of police if not for a police state?
Asked and answered.

The problem is, you don't like the answer because it invalidates your world view.

C'est la vie.

No, actually, you just admitted that I am right. That there is a police state. You just agree with the bullshit reasons for it. Congrats you fuckin Cypherite.

[Cogburn]

Kindly walk us through your thinking as to how you arrived at that conclusion about my opinion.

Personally, I'm at a loss.

Please... enlighten us.

[Jackinthebox]

Kindly walk us through your thinking as to how you arrived at that conclusion about my opinion.

Personally, I'm at a loss.

Please... enlighten us.

Can you think of a bigger fucking clue that you are living in a police state, than the militarization of police? Not to mention that this militarization is taking place in keeping with the repeal of liberty in the name of "safety."

[offsite:4km84yhh]"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." ~Ben Franklin[/offsite:4km84yhh]

[GeneralStriker]

I love that quote. And I believe it. But maybe you should reread your posts on the Forest Service thread in light of it.

[Cogburn]

<snicker>

Thanks, GS.

[Jackinthebox]

I love that quote. And I believe it. But maybe you should reread your posts on the Forest Service thread in light of it.

Care to point out where I was contradictory? Perhaps you misunderstood my meaning in one place or another.

But let me say this, there is a world of difference between telling someone to "beware of the bears" and killing all the bears in the park.

[cartoon]

But let me say this, there is a world of difference between telling someone to "beware of the bears" and killing all the bears in the park.Both can be tactics of a police state though.

I posted this today on another thread but it applies here:


[quote:34fw4esy]I came upon this old post by a buddy of mine just this morning-


by cartoonsyndicate on Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:46 pm
The purpose of cointelpro was not infiltration but rather the fostering of intimidation and paranoia.

"Found among the Media documents was a new word, "COINTELPRO," short for the FBI's "secret counterintelligence program," created to investigate and disrupt dissident political groups in the U.S. Under these programs, beginning in 1956, the bureau worked to "enhance the paranoia endemic in these circles," as one COINTELPRO memo put it, "to get the point across there is an FBI agent behind every mailbox." Washington Post, 1971[/quote:34fw4esy]

the fostering of intimidation and paranoia. That's what the agents of the state do- mostly by making us unaware accomplices.

[Jackinthebox]

both can be tactics of a police state though.

Well, one follows the other I suppose. "Be afraid" followed by...

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo27/superjackinthebox/POLICE_STATE_by_TSHansen-1.jpg

[Jackinthebox]

the fostering of intimidation and paranoia. That's what the agents of the state do- mostly by making us unaware accomplices.

Very true. Last year I posted a piece found on front page of a local paper here in NY, where they basically told citizens to call the cops on their neighbors for the slightest suspicion. Not only does that turn any given neighbor into an agent, but fosters the fear that every neighbor IS an agent. Polarize the populace, create exrtemism, so that it can be more easily dealt with. Push people off the fence that they just put them on.

Police state tactics = police state.

[cartoon]

There ya go. A tactic as old as police themselves. You know, where always talking about the incipience of 'thought police' but in reality all policing has always been about the control and coercion of thought.

[Jackinthebox]

There ya go. A tactic as old as police themselves. You know, where always talking about the incipience of 'thought police' but in reality all policing has always been about the control and coercion of thought.

As old as religion.

[cartoon]

Ever read any Solzhenitsyn? His explication of police work is the best I've ever read.

[Jackinthebox]

Ever read any Solzhenitsyn? His explication of police work is the best I've ever read.

Can't say I have off the top of my head. But technically speaking, police as we know them today did not exist until the 1800's in London.

I think society does need a general framework of enforceable order, but what we have today is ridiculous. Our children will be literally submitting to a camera up their asses in years to come no doubt.

[cartoon]

But technically speaking, police as we know them today did not exist until the 1800's in London. Could be. Solzhenitsyn wrote about the Bolshevik years following the 1905 Revolution.

[Cogburn]

Kindly walk us through your thinking as to how you arrived at that conclusion about my opinion.

Personally, I'm at a loss.

Please... enlighten us.

Can you think of a bigger fucking clue that you are living in a police state, than the militarization of police? Not to mention that this militarization is taking place in keeping with the repeal of liberty in the name of "safety."

[offsite:l4kzhxut]"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." ~Ben Franklin[/offsite:l4kzhxut]
I have not sacrificed a single personal liberty for the advancement of a police state. Quite the opposite, in fact, given that I physically moved to an environment more conducive to my personal beliefs.

There is no more of a direct refutation of a police state than the ability to leave it.

[skunk]

Warrantless wiretapping of civilians.

Speed cameras.

Cops with M4a1s/M16s.

No knock warrants.

Enough reasons?

[Cogburn]

Open exterior borders.

Free interior movement.

Civilians with AK-47s and AR-15s.

Flag burning.

Enough reasons?

[skunk]

We could probably go back and forth all day arguing about whether or not we live in a police state or not.

With that said, I will leave you with lyrics from The Roots - Guns are Drawn.

[offsite:12609adf]Tell me what you would do with no phone or pagers

No Kinko&#39;s, no Fed Ex and no ATM&#39;s

What you gone do when the police state begin

Well it already began but I guess it depends on what&#39;s really going on

what&#39;s happening, huh

Military target practicing

They finna write another patriot act again

The days is short the nights is long

The fight goes on

The pistol and the pipes are drawn[/offsite:12609adf]

[cartoon]

any one of skunk's 'abuses' puts the lie to your entire list., think i

[Cogburn]

You miss my point.

The fact that there is an argument at all means little else than there is no police state.

If it were a police state, we wouldn't have anything to discuss. We would simply agree as there would be ample evidence to support it.

[skunk]

As I said, we can go back and forth all day and night.

[offsite:35y95xry]"None are more hopelessly enslaved than
those who falsely believe they are free."

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe[/offsite:35y95xry]

What do you think about that quote, taken from the link below?

Fascinating read by hermes press, put your tin foil hat on though (http://www.hermes-press.com/police_state.htm)

[boycotteverything]

police states develop by degrees

[Cogburn]

police states develop by degrees
No arguments, however to point to the drug war as a source of such designs misses the elephant on the couch for the fly on the wall.

[boycotteverything]

no argument there

[Oblivion]

police state? no.

its just an example of what happens with the ongoing militarisation of your average police force.

That sounds awfully close to being an oxymoronic sentiment.

not at all, you can have one without the other.
the probem is too many ppl blur the meaning into one and cry "police state, police state" every time some power hungry minion with a badge over steps his authority.


they are both entirely different things, but obviously one extreme could lead to another but it is no guarantee.

you can have a police state without having a swat guy with machine gun on every corner.
you have many freedoms that were not avail to people in ww2 germany which WAS a police state.
you can yell 911 was an inside job
you can critisize the gubby mint
you could spray paint "obama is the antichrist" on a sign or car and spout stupid shit in front of the white house with it.
you drive, travel, and migrate freely around within your own country at your own pleasing without need for permission or road blocks at every exit asking 'papers please'
you are not forced to work, you can choose to sit on your ass and go nowhere in life if you so choose (not you personally, just generalising)


therefore, you do NOT have a police state as the word implies.
what you have is a police force, some of which is abusing their power.

big difference.


you can also have a militarisation of your police, give them all the latest tech gear, but teach them to use it properly.

technology and equipment do not make a police state. they merely aid it.


corrupt powermongers in gubmint agencies who seek to bring in new laws to control every aspect of your lives do... but you are a long way off the police state shit you love to claim jack :smokin:

[Jackinthebox]

I have not sacrificed a single personal liberty for the advancement of a police state. Quite the opposite, in fact, given that I physically moved to an environment more conducive to my personal beliefs.

There is no more of a direct refutation of a police state than the ability to leave it.

Well, kudos to you. But now you must concede that there is a world beyond your bubble.

[Jackinthebox]

Open exterior borders.

Free interior movement.

Civilians with AK-47s and AR-15s.

Flag burning.

Enough reasons?

Civilians were meant to have firearms. I dare say it is our right to outgun the government in fact. The balance of power has shifted away from the Constitutional Republic that our nation was founded as, to the totalitarian regime that reigns today and is protected by sheep with ghetto birds and tasers.

[Jackinthebox]

We could probably go back and forth all day arguing about whether or not we live in a police state or not.

With that said, I will leave you with lyrics from The Roots - Guns are Drawn.



I am reminded of this...

v]BS3QOtbW4m0v]

...and this...

v]YKagtugBCjUv]

[Jackinthebox]

You miss my point.

The fact that there is an argument at all means little else than there is no police state.

If it were a police state, we wouldn't have anything to discuss. We would simply agree as there would be ample evidence to support it.

If the Jews in Germany "agreed" they never would have got on the fucking train.

[Jackinthebox]

As I said, we can go back and forth all day and night.

[offsite:36nqboao]"None are more hopelessly enslaved than
those who falsely believe they are free."

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe[/offsite:36nqboao]

What do you think about that quote, taken from the link below?

Fascinating read by hermes press, put your tin foil hat on though (http://www.hermes-press.com/police_state.htm)

[offsite:36nqboao]"By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise."~Hitler[/offsite:36nqboao]

...and this one has your name all over it Cog...

[offsite:36nqboao]"All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach."~Hitler[/offsite:36nqboao]

o]ppRqRae0TAso]

[Jackinthebox]

police states develop by degrees
No arguments, however to point to the drug war as a source of such designs misses the elephant on the couch for the fly on the wall.

So you endorse the "war on drugs" and believe that is effective?

[Jackinthebox]

Oblvion, thanks for posting. Please be patient while I take the time offsite to rip that post apart. Tonight or tomorrow most likely, I will post you downfall, hahahha. :batman:

[Oblivion]

my downfall? not likely

more ignorance.. most probably ;)

[Lexion]

Umm...just my 2 cent....FWIW

YouTube never wins a debate.

Nor does cut-N-paste.

True thought, whether it conforms
to the others or not wins.

It's called respect.

[Jackinthebox]

my downfall? not likely

more ignorance.. most probably ;)

Cheers. Ignorance happens. Pobody's nerfect. I just can't stand when people deny the proof right in front of them.

You made a good post though, and I do intend to reply. I'm just juggling tonite and I think I'm gonna have to put in some time to make a proper resopnse to yours there.

Cheers.

[Jackinthebox]

Umm...just my 2 cent....FWIW

YouTube never wins a debate.

Nor does cut-N-paste.

True thought, whether it conforms
to the others or not wins.

It's called respect.

I disagree. Though I do think people should put up a summary of how a youtube or outside source confirms their own opinion.

"Here watch this" type shit I usually ignore.

[Oblivion]

my downfall? not likely

more ignorance.. most probably ;)

Cheers. Ignorance happens. Pobody's nerfect. I just can't stand when people deny the proof right in front of them.

You made a good post though, and I do intend to reply. I'm just juggling tonite and I think I'm gonna have to put in some time to make a proper resopnse to yours there.

Cheers.

thats cool, i look forward to your reply.
its actually been quite a good topic so far :)



Though I do think people should put up a summary of how a youtube or outside source confirms their own opinion.

"Here watch this" type shit I usually ignore.

i definately have to agree on that one.

[Jackinthebox]

I had a few tonight Oblivion, and I need to give that post the respect it deserves. Prepare for the spankin. Lol. Cheers. I'll try to get at it tomorrow. There was a lot of material that shot off in my mind when readin that, so I don't want to miss the opportunity to get it on proper like.

[torbjon]

Oblivion:


you drive, travel, and migrate freely around within your own country at your own pleasing without need for permission or road blocks at every exit asking 'papers please'

you need a state issued drivers license or permit to drive, you need a photo ID or certified birth certificate to fly domestic, you need picture ID to rent a hotel room, etc.

also, whereas there has yet to be any FEDERAL laws stating that citizens must carry "their papers", many states have laws that say just that, New Jersey being one of them. *shrugs*

40 years ago I could board a plane with nothing more than a bomb, a gun, and a first class ticket paid for in cash... now, mmph. fucking police state *laughs*

[Oblivion]

Oblivion:


you drive, travel, and migrate freely around within your own country at your own pleasing without need for permission or road blocks at every exit asking 'papers please'

you need a state issued drivers license or permit to drive, you need a photo ID or certified birth certificate to fly domestic, you need picture ID to rent a hotel room, etc.

also, whereas there has yet to be any FEDERAL laws stating that citizens must carry "their papers", many states have laws that say just that, New Jersey being one of them. *shrugs*

40 years ago I could board a plane with nothing more than a bomb, a gun, and a first class ticket paid for in cash... now, mmph. fucking police state *laughs*

you can easily ride a bike, walk, hitch hike, sail, canoe.. backpack around aswell.
you choose the car or plane if you have the money. but there are other options.

you are free to be a dole bludger and do nothing but sleep under the stars and live as you please.
in a police state you'd be rounded up and either disposed of, or put to work.

you do have that choice.

[Jackinthebox]

you can easily ride a bike, walk, hitch hike, sail, canoe.. backpack around aswell.
you choose the car or plane if you have the money. but there are other options.

you are free to be a dole bludger and do nothing but sleep under the stars and live as you please.
in a police state you'd be rounded up and either disposed of, or put to work.

you do have that choice.

We ARE being disposed of and put to work. If we have no jobs for you, you will sell drugs and go to prison.

Moreover, why should I need a license to drive on roads that my taxes paid for?

[Oblivion]

because it makes sure everyone on the road is qualified to an adequate level.

and your here now jack, i assume your not posting from one of them FEMA camps people love to spout about.

next time, call captain obvious to answer those type of questions :p

[Jackinthebox]

because it makes sure everyone on the road is qualified to an adequate level.

next time, call captain obvious to answer those type of questions :p

Lol. Do you really believe that dumb fuck Lucy putting on eye makeup, reading the paper, and texting about the club is "qualified"???

Lol. Dont give me no dumb shit. My license cost five grand, and as far as I'm concerned, you shouldn't be able to drive without it if we're going that way.

[Oblivion]

Oblvion, thanks for posting. Please be patient while I take the time offsite to rip that post apart. Tonight or tomorrow most likely, I will post you downfall, hahahha. :batman:

so what happened jack?

were you abducted into a fema camp for the weekend by the police state you claim to live in?

naaah, according to your other post you was too busy doing drugs and posting in a "dazed n confused state".

you was ROCKING !!! :lol:

just for you... i present the police :)

c]BnejNGprm3Ic]

[Jackinthebox]

Oblvion, thanks for posting. Please be patient while I take the time offsite to rip that post apart. Tonight or tomorrow most likely, I will post you downfall, hahahha. :batman:

so what happened jack?

were you abducted into a fema camp for the weekend by the police state you claim to live in?

naaah, according to your other post you was too busy doing drugs and posting in a "dazed n confused state".

you was ROCKING !!! :lol:

Doh! Sorry dude. I drank a whole fuckin bottle of rum the other nite. I gotta stop doing that. I've doen it like three or four times in the past few months. Then I wake up under the asshole blanket trying to remember what I drunk posted and wondering if I got banned.

[skunk]

You won't get banned for being an asshole, we'll all just think you're a moron. That's all.

[Jackinthebox]

The long awaited reply to OBLIVION...

Sorry I wan't more tech savvy in typesetting here....



not at all, you can have one without the other.
the probem is too many ppl blur the meaning into one and cry "police state, police state" every time some power hungry minion with a badge over steps his authority.

they are both entirely different things, but obviously one extreme could lead to another but it is no guarantee.

…

I must concede, that in general, the militarization of police forces may not be synonymous with the creation of a police state. But in the United States, where we have a clear Constitutional distinction between police and military armed forces, the militarization of police is an affront to the very basis of what it means to be an American. And enforcement of that attack on liberty is proof-positive that we now live in a police-state.

…

you can have a police state without having a swat guy with machine gun on every corner.

…

But can you have a free-state with a machine gun on every corner?

…

you have many freedoms that were not avail to people in ww2 germany which WAS a police state.
…


There is not one freedom that you have today which cannot be taken away by the will of a corrupt system nd a judge’s order. The People’s Court, duh duh duh. Also, keep in mind, this isn’t 1939. The enemy is much more clever these days.
…

you can yell 911 was an inside job

…

Or can you? Do you know who Barry Jennings is? And how much airtime gets dedicated to very real questions about 9/11. The fact that the whitewash by the 911 commission cannot be challenged is a testament to how subversive this police state actually is to Constitutional values.

…

you can critisize the gubby mint

…

So? People get away with criticizing the government in police-states. It all depends on how loudly you criticize, and how effectively. But in this case, it goes much deeper than that. We are still allowed to criticize the government, because the government has become the buffer between the people and the real power. Criticize the government all you want, it doesn’t matter, because the government is on the payroll. They aren’t in control. It’s like screaming at the clerk at the grocery store because the prices are too high.

Also, keep in mind, that police-state is only the last phase before totalitarianism. Right now we are living in a police-state, that can still be challenged, but not for much longer.

…

you could spray paint "obama is the antichrist" on a sign or car and spout stupid shit in front of the white house with it.

…

Again, maybe. I was once arrested and interrogated because I was driving around with a cardboard monk in my backseat. Just because the cops didn’t understand why. When they released me, they told me about how it was “for my own good.” That they thought I might be suicidal and that it was a “cry for help.”
…


you drive, travel, and migrate freely around within your own country at your own pleasing without need for permission or road blocks at every exit asking 'papers please'

…

Don’t need a roadblock at every exit. In fact, an effective police state won’t waste the resources. And you can’t be serious with the “papers please comment.” Even if you aren’t driving, you can be arrested and held until your identity is verified if you are not carrying a state-issued ID to be presented on demand of law enforcement.

…

you are not forced to work, you can choose to sit on your ass and go nowhere in life if you so choose (not you personally, just generalising)

…

Not so. Most people are simply unable to get anywhere in life, no matter how hard they work. You might want to learn a thing or two about what it means to be the working poor in this country.

…

therefore, you do NOT have a police state as the word implies.
what you have is a police force, some of which is abusing their power.

big difference.

…

The abuse of power is expected. It is part of the job. And the goal posts keep getting moved further and further away from liberty. What was once a serious affront to liberty, and the Constitution, is now routine police work.
…

you can also have a militarisation of your police, give them all the latest tech gear, but teach them to use it properly.

technology and equipment do not make a police state. they merely aid it.
…

Granted, but if they were acting properly, they wouldn’t need it in the first place. And on the flip side, look at London. The beat cops there don’t even have guns, yet there too is a police state.…

corrupt powermongers in gubmint agencies who seek to bring in new laws to control every aspect of your lives do... but you are a long way off the police state shit you love to claim jack
…

Am I?

http://www.matrixbookstore.biz/rule_of_law.htm

[Jackinthebox]

You won't get banned for being an asshole, we'll all just think you're a moron. That's all.

And which is worse? I mean, I know I'm an asshole and all, but no one want to be misunderstood.

[skunk]

I must misunderstand you often then.

[Cogburn]

That piece does little else but highlight the constant struggle between order and liberty that we were warned of by those who founded this nation.

The struggle continues, but is not over.

That and the fact that dude has some serious issues with his own ability to achieve... either that, or has no capability to express how to achieve to others. Were the case otherwise we wouldn't have gems like this one:

you are not forced to work, you can choose to sit on your ass and go nowhere in life if you so choose (not you personally, just generalising)
…
Not so. Most people are simply unable to get anywhere in life, no matter how hard they work. You might want to learn a thing or two about what it means to be the working poor in this country.
Been there, done that. I could post 1040 forms that show under $30,000 a year in income for 5 years.

But I'm not like that anymore. I wonder why that is... maybe I know something this guy doesn't.

[Jackinthebox]

I must misunderstand you often then.

Quite likely. This medium leaves much open to misunderstanding. No real tone, no body language, no humanity.

[Jackinthebox]

I must misunderstand you often then.

Quite likely. This medium leaves much open to misunderstanding. No real tone, no body language, no humanity.

[Jackinthebox]

I could post 1040 forms that show under $30,000 a year in income for 5 years.

But I'm not like that anymore. I wonder why that is... maybe I know something this guy doesn't.

Something that millions dont know perhaps...?

9]0YYG-f3qYE89]

[Cogburn]

Something that millions dont know perhaps...?
Given the overall quality of education and the value of others' experience expressed by such nameless, faceless, unwashed masses...

Yes, absolutely.

[Jackinthebox]

Something that millions dont know perhaps...?
Given the overall quality of education and the value of others' experience expressed by such nameless, faceless, unwashed masses...

Yes, absolutely.

And yet you deny that this vehicle is being used to literally starve us to death, on a nutritional level, in the old let them eat cake thread.

[Cogburn]

One contrary fact is all that is required to prove an hypothesis incorrect.

The fact that there is still choice invalidates any such argument as being universal.

There have always been the poor and the undernourished for as long as our current civilization has been recorded.

Is it proof of a modern police state or more as evidence of the nature of the human condition?

Without experiencing life as a "have-not", there is no incentive to "have".

The question is, do you let that stop your progress and blame someone else for it, or do you utilize it as motivation to become better than you are regardless of the manufactured obstacles before you?

A mere man such as yourself or myself created this system. What makes you think you aren't capable of living beyond it?

[Jackinthebox]

One contrary fact is all that is required to prove an hypothesis incorrect.
The fact that there is still choice invalidates any such argument as being universal.
There have always been the poor and the undernourished for as long as our current civilization has been recorded.
Is it proof of a modern police state or more as evidence of the nature of the human condition?
Without experiencing life as a "have-not", there is no incentive to "have".
The question is, do you let that stop your progress and blame someone else for it, or do you utilize it as motivation to become better than you are regardless of the manufactured obstacles before you?
A mere man such as yourself or myself created this system. What makes you think you aren't capable of living beyond it?

Is it your own fault that one day you wake up living in a bad neighborhood, and you get shot, simply because you didn't move? Do not defend those who are after you next. Don't feed the beast.

And we aren't talking about a few pockets of poverty here. We are talking about the wholesale systematic slaughter of the populace in phased progression.

[Eyeforalie]

From good ol' Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/police+state):

[offsite:3msfnpdi]Main Entry: police state
Function: noun
Date: 1851
: a political unit characterized by repressive governmental control of political, economic, and social life usually by an arbitrary exercise of power by police and especially secret police in place of regular operation of administrative and judicial organs of the government according to publicly known legal procedures[/offsite:3msfnpdi]

I think, by this definition, it would be a long stretch to say that we live in a Police State.

I would however agree that we live in a self-consumed, egotistical society which has exchanged its freedom for safety and shiny things, ultimately giving enormous amounts of power to the elite in the greediest nation in history.

May there be a group of individuals which wish to exploit every drip of wealth and intelligence from its foolishly self-enslaved kin?

Probably, because there are people that give everything they have to help others, and there must be balance.

[Jackinthebox]

From good ol' Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/police+state):
[offsite:2lkbck6p]Main Entry: police state
Function: noun
Date: 1851
: a political unit characterized by repressive governmental control of political, economic, and social life usually by an arbitrary exercise of power by police and especially secret police in place of regular operation of administrative and judicial organs of the government according to publicly known legal procedures[/offsite:2lkbck6p]

I think, by this definition, it would be a long stretch to say that we live in a Police State.

Then that would make you very naieve.



I would however agree that we live in a self-consumed, egotistical society which has exchanged its freedom for safety and shiny things, ultimately giving enormous amounts of power to the elite in the greediest nation in history.

May there be a group of individuals which wish to exploit every drip of wealth and intelligence from its foolishly self-enslaved kin?

Probably, because there are people that give everything they have to help others, and there must be balance.

Why "must" there be a balance?

Where was this "balance" in Nazi Germany, or the Stalinist Soviet, when the "chosen" were promised shiny things?

[Eyeforalie]

There must be balance because the universe requires balance.

Id have to say that I am naive.

But at least I know it.


This isnt Nazi Germany. Very large difference.

[Jackinthebox]

There must be balance because the universe requires balance.

Id have to say that I am naive.

But at least I know it.


This isnt Nazi Germany. Very large difference.

If there was this balance that you believe in, there would be Utopia.

And as far as Nazi Germany goes, my family lived it, and you are a sheep. And just to show that I am not biased, my grand-uncle was SS.

[Eyeforalie]

No, balance means that there is good and bad...

And what makes me a sheep? Please break that down to me. This time try actual intellectual backing instead of petty, overused insults.

By the way, my family also lived it.

[Cogburn]

Is it your own fault that one day you wake up living in a bad neighborhood, and you get shot, simply because you didn't move? Do not defend those who are after you next. Don't feed the beast.

And we aren't talking about a few pockets of poverty here. We are talking about the wholesale systematic slaughter of the populace in phased progression.
Was it a surprise when you woke up that morning that you lived in a "bad neighborhood"?

Would your point not be better served asking me of the man who "does everything right" and still dies a "senseless" death?

[Jackinthebox]

No, balance means that there is good and bad...

And what makes me a sheep? Please break that down to me. This time try actual intellectual backing instead of petty, overused insults.

By the way, my family also lived it.

So evil dos not make headway? This world is more evil than anything. Show me goodness, and I will bury you in evil.

[Jackinthebox]

Was it a surprise when you woke up that morning that you lived in a "bad neighborhood"?

Yes, yes it was a surprise as a matter of fact.

Tell me what you know about having all sorts of cool toys one Christmas, and then exchanging canned veggies the next you fuckin ignorant coksuckin bastard.

[Cogburn]

Was it a surprise when you woke up that morning that you lived in a "bad neighborhood"?

Yes, yes it was a surprise as a matter of fact.

Tell me what you know about having all sorts of cool toys one Christmas, and then exchanging canned veggies the next you fuckin ignorant coksuckin bastard.
That's not overnight... that was over a year...

Was that a bad neighborhood or a bad household?

Interesting that's your choice of support for your argument, no?

[Jackinthebox]

That's not overnight... that was over a year...

Was that a bad neighborhood or a bad household?

Interesting that's your choice of support for your argument, no?

Shows what u know.

[Cogburn]

My past few posts in this thread have had as many questions as statements.

You state the obvious.