Jacques Vallee

[Lexion]

Interesting interview.

I'd like some others input
on the guy.

Excerpt :

[offsite:1ojg3ics]Vallee: There is plenty of data--and it should be analyzed further. But I do not think it's going to be a propeller from a flying saucer. I think it is going to be things that would be interesting if you could find a pattern to the material. I'm skeptical about stories of crashed saucers; I have an open mind about it, but I've heard those stories for so many years and they never really amount to anything tangible. Also, I am skeptical for another reason: We build technologies now that are extremely reliable where there is the need. How often does your hard disk crash? I mean, if you keep your computer for 15 years, eventually the hard disk is going to crash. But you don't expect that to happen. If you were going to build a technology that takes you across interstellar space, it would have to be extremely reliable.[/offsite:1ojg3ics]

Source (http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc839.htm)

Thanks in advance,
Lex

[Cogburn]

Any UFOlogist that dismisses a well researched, well formulated theory on the topic is a fool who forgets the field in which their time is invested.

That post illustrates the greatest difference between honest folks like Valle and the True Believers like Greer.

It's the difference between "HEY! I THINK I FOUND SOMETHING!" and "HEY! LISTEN TO ME, I SPEAK THE TRUTH!": Valle doesn't mind if in the end his theories are proven completely wrong.

Great find.

[Yex]

Vallee is up there with the best, he was the inspiration (& tech advisor for the film I believe) for the French scientist in Close encounters of the third kind

These 3 books are a must read http://www.anomalistbooks.com/news/category/alien-contact-trilogy/

as is "Passport to Magonia" looking at similarities between modern ufo/abduction phenomena and faerie/little people lore

he is also, however also known as "Partridge" of the Aviary :shock:

Cheers,

Yex

[Lexion]

Books on my list.

Thanks, Yex !!

[mur]

Vallee is great

The link below is from a Radio show, i actually burned it to a cd and listen to it sometimes in the car.

Skip the intro though

http://binnallofamerica.com/boaa7.20.8.html

[boycotteverything]

Vallee is probably held in the highest regard of all Ufologists. He's a brilliant, open minded thinker and a kind man to boot. He was at Hynek's side during the time Allen struggled with his klassic skepticism and emerged on the other side of the UFO paradigm. Was he responsible for Hynek's change of heart? I have always believed so although the evidence is scant. Of course that does not save even him from anthro-centric and subjective assumptions. Such as: "If you were going to build a technology that takes you across interstellar space, it would have to be extremely reliable." We neither know that this 'technology' was 'built' nor do we know that it is reliable nor do we know that interstellar space actually implies distance or duration as we know it. We simply assume that to be the case. In a sense all we know at this juncture is witness and trace evidence of the phenomena- a point he also famously makes! In any case he's not the final authority but certainly worth considering- "Passport" in particular. Excellent book.

[Cogburn]

Truly amazing work. (http://www.jacquesvallee.net/bookdocs/WebLSTarticle.pdf)

Look, everyone! It's science and UFOs!

[offsite:15ho53pd]The resulting catalog contains 1,425 events. We computed LST values for 881 cases
where date and time was known in addition to geographic coordinates. Among these, 452
were IFOs (identified flying objects) and 429 were unexplained. The corresponding
distribution into “bins” of the same size as in the previous study is given on figure 6.

On figure 6 the peak between 21.2 and 22.1 hours of LST is extremely sharp. Note that a
secondary peak exists between 4.2 and 4.6 hours of LST.
At this point it is convenient to use one of the important characteristics of the Sepra
catalog, where identified events have been kept in the list with a special code. These
include all the usual mundane explanations, such as meteors, reentry of satellites,
searchlights, astronomical objects, etc. Our next task was to restart the distribution study
on the basis of the 413 unexplained cases with known date and time only. This led to the
chart of figure 7.
It can be seen that the peak at about 21.5 hours disappears when identified cases are
removed from the Sepra catalog. In contrast, the secondary peak between 3.2 and 5.2
hours of local sidereal time on figure 6 actually stands out more sharply on figure 7, with
a maximum at 3.8 hours. This particular feature in the distribution survives not only the
elimination of IFOs from the list but also a review of the individual cases for possible
duplication effects or other biases. At this point we have to consider it as unexplained.

Conclusion and recommendations
-------------------------------
The present study confirms the existence of an apparent statistical relationship between
UFO events and local sidereal time in the Hatch catalog. When the data is further
analyzed, however, it is seen to contain no less than 56 entries for one case that actually
represents a cluster of observations of a single major event, a fact that was not taken into
account in Sturrock’s analysis. In a control study using a preliminary version of the
French Sepra catalog, we have shown that the peak at 21.5 hours disappears when cases
classified as IFOs have been removed. A secondary peak at 3.8 hours remains
unexplained.
The discovery and confirmation of a statistical link between the frequency of UFO events
and some celestial parameter, such as local sidereal time, would be an important step in
the understanding of the very complex UFO phenomenon. Until analysis of other
catalogs is carried out, however, it appears wise to maintain a cautious skeptical position
with respect to claims of statistical correlation between UFO events and the position of
the stars.[/offsite:15ho53pd]

[Yex]

You do know that "SEPRA" is actually french for "SERPO", don`t you?

:D

Yex

[Cogburn]

Smite.

[KIWI]

I collect him like BC's books, amongst others.......the voice of reason....


Jacques Vallee: The evidence for an “undercurrent” of deceit behind some alleged UFO cases only becomes visible when you spend time in the field interviewing witnesses and tracking down the evidence. It became annoying to me because it represented a waste of time and a distraction from studying genuine observations. Researchers who collect reports only through books or media accounts would not necessarily encounter this level of the phenomenon and would understandably resist the suggestion that the belief in extraterrestrial intervention is being manipulated to serve political or cultist goals.
Even people who are fully aware of this negative aspect don’t want to bring it up into the open because they think it will call disrepute to the subject. Many erstwhile ufologists don’t want the deceptive reports exposed, just as the Catholic Church long denied instances of abuse in its ranks. Whistle-blowing is never welcome. My own position has always been that, on the contrary, the best way to gain the respect of the intellectual community is to expose hoaxes, sloppy research and manipulation whenever we encounter them. ...


its all in the last sentence

[boycotteverything]

Yes it is, "all in that last sentence." And so it's worth repeating for the edification of those who would pursue dissembling as a tactic-


the best way to gain the respect of the intellectual community is to expose hoaxes

[KIWI]

ha ha .........my post stands on its own for what it says, it sure isnt meant to imply anything about anyone.....srsly

if I had an offer to join a band of modern day internet "larakins" intent on spreading high mischief I am sure my first reaction would be to climb aboard, I doubt if I could see it through though, but then I have not been "tested" in that respect so wont be to quick to judge anyone else :batman: .......it has a real "Hogans Heroes " angle for my liking.........Ill admit Im just a big kid really :roll:

[boycotteverything]

its all in the last sentencethen for you that last sentence is not a true conclusion? why post it then?

[KIWI]

of course it is.....we must have diverging takes on it.....I see wraith about, Im sure he remembers me saying how I think anyone caught hoaxing should be hung....his comment was he thought it a bit extreme......he was correct of course,......I think what pisses cog off is the same as a lot of us....the shit-heads out there deliberately forging and faking to make money out of it......and a lot of them sloppy at it ,cogburn is one of those damn perfectionist sods with an annoyingly accurate eye for detail, I would have no qualms about targeting a con-man,

but it would have to be very specific,I would not get any joy out of just trying to put one over the general pop, just for the hell of it......yeah,

is that an answer?

[boycotteverything]

is that an answer?Not for me. All hoaxing can accomplish is the furtherance of the work of the Robertson Panel. The existence of MJ12 is forever clouded by the Bill Moore hoax of Majestic documents. His cause may have been righteous but his methods were destructive. Reputations were soiled and Ufology suffered a setback from which it has yet to recover even after 20 years. The same can be said of the SERPO hoax and the Rick Doty- Paul Bennewitz tragedy. Why was Phil Klass so successful in debunking Lonnie Zamora? The roots lay in the Adamski hoax that forever cast doubt on UFO witness testimony. The list is long and sordid. Hoaxing has been a disaster for the serious study of Ufology. That, of course, was Vallee's point and it's a good one. I share Vallee's concerns. As Lobsang said, "You become what you resist." To which I would add- 'You become your methods.'

[KIWI]

sure ....if you want to let how others behave control your life......there always has been and always will be hoaxers and forgers etc.......that cock-head (Kl)ass will never convince me Lonnie Zamora was hallucinating, so im my world he's a fail....nor could anyone else, my beliefs are based on my knowledge pool, so what if a set of docs here, and a frozen Sasquatch there....show up every now and then?... does that alter for you the things you hold to be real?......and the sheep that let others make their minds up for them?......nothing will help them.

[boycotteverything]

does that alter for you the things you hold to be real?What we consider to be 'real' is a process that can certainly be effected by viral memes. Personally, I try to have no fixed reality aside from a set of principles that can be clothed and then stripped naked by the arrangement of actual occasions within my purview. In other words: 'consider everything/ believe nothing.' Is that an answer?

[KIWI]

What we consider to be 'real' is a process that can certainly be effected by viral memes.

if as an individual you are susceptable to others influence, if you are running "culture-lite".....I would not be here if I did not know for sure that exotic propulsion craft exist, so it doesnt matter to me what anyone else does or says....

its been fun, as usual......nite man 8)

[boycotteverything]

if as an individual you are susceptable to others influence, if you are running "culture-lite".I suppose that may be true were we to overlook our drive for love, compassion and a common struggle for justice, mercy and truth. Otherwise it only has application only to the dead.

[KIWI]

fuck the dead.....they are dead....and Im not....ha ha ha ha ha

[boycotteverything]

in a very short time you will be.

[KIWI]

in a very short time you will be.


man I cant wait.....what a rush, Ill be going straight for tha Akashic record........find out what lies you had told me :lol:

[Yex]

From RU Blog

"The RU suggestion here is significant. We are proposing that a group of UFO researchers, in the 1970’s, formulated their own “attack plan” against the UFO phenomenon. Vallee published more books in the latter part of the 1970s that would elaborate upon what subject matter they would use and how they would test the system. We will show how these “scientific” tests conducted against the “control system” ultimately muddied the waters and destroyed the chance for legitimate study of the UFO phenomenon throughout the 1980s and 1990s. Shockingly, these scientists refuse to give up on their efforts, even today."

http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/2009/10/jacques-vallee-crosses-ufo-research-with-psychic-research/

Cheers,

Yex

[GeneralStriker]

fuck those guys. i feel a little dirty now.

[mur]

Thanks Yex

[Chorlton]

Yes it is, "all in that last sentence." And so it's worth repeating for the edification of those who would pursue dissembling as a tactic-


the best way to gain the respect of the intellectual community is to expose hoaxes


HMMPH
I exposed Gridkeeper and Barry King as hoaxers and I got no respect. No spotted dick either

[GeneralStriker]

your dick was already spotted

[Chorlton]

You peeked ??
VERY ungentlemanly

[GeneralStriker]

peeked? hell no. i found it in my last can. didn't you miss that damned thing? jesus...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_N2Zz8GiVlX4/SbLcGwlq7aI/AAAAAAAAAAk/wEr5HG_C4WE/s320/spotted+dick.jpg

[mur]

From RU Blog

"The RU suggestion here is significant. We are proposing that a group of UFO researchers, in the 1970’s, formulated their own “attack plan” against the UFO phenomenon. Vallee published more books in the latter part of the 1970s that would elaborate upon what subject matter they would use and how they would test the system. We will show how these “scientific” tests conducted against the “control system” ultimately muddied the waters and destroyed the chance for legitimate study of the UFO phenomenon throughout the 1980s and 1990s. Shockingly, these scientists refuse to give up on their efforts, even today."

http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/2009/10/jacques-vallee-crosses-ufo-research-with-psychic-research/

Cheers,

Yex


What is RU saying here?

These three were trying to bluff their way into the "inside" or bluff the phenomena itself?

I guess I had come to the conclusion that they were trying to bluff their way inside "need to know"

Welcome back Chorlton.

You were right...I was wrong

I've undergone a transformation

Btw...I've notice no one has posted at RU in quite some time

[Yex]

From RU Blog

"The RU suggestion here is significant. We are proposing that a group of UFO researchers, in the 1970’s, formulated their own “attack plan” against the UFO phenomenon. Vallee published more books in the latter part of the 1970s that would elaborate upon what subject matter they would use and how they would test the system. We will show how these “scientific” tests conducted against the “control system” ultimately muddied the waters and destroyed the chance for legitimate study of the UFO phenomenon throughout the 1980s and 1990s. Shockingly, these scientists refuse to give up on their efforts, even today."

http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/2009/10/jacques-vallee-crosses-ufo-research-with-psychic-research/

Cheers,

Yex


What is RU saying here?

These three were trying to bluff their way into the "inside" or bluff the phenomena itself?

I guess I had come to the conclusion that they were trying to bluff their way inside "need to know"

Welcome back Chorlton.

You were right...I was wrong

I've undergone a transformation

Btw...I've notice no one has posted at RU in quite some time

I read it with slight surprise as being another sign (as with the recent abduction piece ) of a slight softening of their usual rabid debunkery.

Yex

[Cogburn]

Rabid debunkery is only self-sustaining when you do not have fascist moderation regimes. RU committed seppuku on their own arrogance.

There is still only one AmKon.

[mur]

Rabid debunkery....for some reason, I'm attracted to that phrase.

[Cogburn]

Here's rabid debunkery ad absurdum. (http://www.randi.org)

Everything is true. You are always wrong. Deviation from mainstream thought will not be tolerated. Everything can be explained using a slide rule and an existing equation or you just don't understand the material so STFU, moran.

Well.. I guess we're not rabid debunkers, really.

Just rabid.

[Yex]

Mur- The reason for the lack of posts at a certain forum is obvious

I just can`t see the point in a "discussion forum" where no discussion is allowed, case in point being Gary Bekkum, They ban every fucker that disagrees with their rabid debunkery...rolls off the tongue that phrase :D

[Chorlton]

But Gary Bekkum is a bell end.
'Stargate research' ???OH PLEEEEEEEZE

I quite Liked RU, Ray in particular had a nice way about him and a cool way of destroying fuckwits like Lear and Zorgon and I miss his stuff, but I wont tolerate censorship of any kind. I also wasnt comfortable with the type of religious shit that was allowed to be spouted without anyone having the right to question it. That sort of secular protectionism I find very sad.

[Yex]

I enjoy reading Gary Bekkums stuff (and Caryns) on Starpod.org

His latest piece is about the Glomar recovery and features my favourite Dan Smith tale featuring the "Cadavers in for an emergency filleting" at the University of Maryland Medical School in Baltimore, which may or may not have been an initiation/psych test featuring alien bodies.

http://stargate007.blogspot.com/2009/10/cias-glomar-explorer-and-uso-alien_07.html

Go on Chorlton, start frothing at the mouth :mrgreen:

[boycotteverything]

I lost a lot of respect for Gary after he allowed himself to be the main course at the Teutonic barbecue over at RU and then became the blue angel's cuckold at OM. I'm hoping he'll return to his roots.