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View Full Version : More Proof WWII May Have Been Contrived



Cogburn
08-18-2009, 08:39 PM
[offsite=http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTRE57H2YP20090818:3jfjpcd1]New show explores Britain's "phony" 1939 war
Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:45am EDT
LONDON (Reuters Life!) - For months after the declaration of war against Germany in 1939, many Britons were convinced the conflict would be relatively brief, a new exhibition at London's Imperial War Museum shows.

"Outbreak 1939," which runs from August 20-September 5, 2010, has been organized to mark the 70th anniversary of Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's radio announcement on September 3 that Britain was at war.

It includes Chamberlain's pocket diary, in which he simply scrawled "war declared" on September 3, and a letter to his sister written a week later which underlined the mood of optimism in Britain before major military operations in Europe began.

He wrote: "Since then (declaration of war), although I have had some dreadful anxieties, especially during one sleepless night, the tension has actually decreased and I have occasionally times, perhaps an hour or even more, when there has been nothing for me to do."

But Elsie Warren, a member of the auxiliary fire service and the kind of ordinary Briton the exhibition focuses on, was less sanguine, writing in her diary after hearing Chamberlain's broadcast:

"The past few days have been very morbid. Everything is quiet and the shadow of war darkens."

Terry Charman, senior historian at the Imperial War Museum, said the British authorities were quick to encourage public optimism about the outcome of the war, triggered by Nazi leader Adolf Hitler's decision to invade Poland.

"There was a great deal of unwarranted optimism that the war wasn't going to last," he said. "This optimism was encouraged by the government. If you look at the newspapers, for example, there were reports that the Nazis were on their last legs."

Yet the war became the most destructive conflict in history.

"LITTLE" HELP TO POLAND

Britain and France, the exhibition argues, initially made "very little effort" to come to Poland's aid. The first British soldier was not killed in action until December 9 and the German air raids people had feared did not come about.

Despite blackouts, mass evacuation of children from cities and the issue of gas masks, many aspects of normal life continued well after the start of the conflict, leading to the phrase "phony war."

Many evacuated children returned home, hundreds of thousands of men were unemployed, and after a few weeks most cinemas and theatres reopened after temporary closure.

The mood changed, Charman said, after Germany's invasion of Norway and Denmark in 1940, one of the early direct land confrontations between Britain and France and Nazi forces.

It coincided with the rise to power in Britain of Winston Churchill, who succeeded Chamberlain, widely seen as unfit to lead his country through a long, bloody war.

"People, I think, realized that this man (Chamberlain) was not the man to lead them to victory," Charman said.

Chamberlain has long been associated with the policy of appeasement with Nazi Germany, because he initially gave into Hitler's territorial demands in a bid to avoid war.

"Appeasement is a dirty word now, but at the time it wasn't," Charman said.[/offsite:3jfjpcd1]

boycotteverything
08-19-2009, 08:45 AM
WW2 may well have been contrived but the impetus of that brief essays argues just the opposite. "...after Germany's invasion of Norway and Denmark in 1940, one of the early direct land confrontations between Britain and France and Nazi forces..." That act, in itself, sealed the deal.

"Terry Charman, senior historian at the Imperial War Museum, said the British authorities were quick to encourage public optimism about the outcome of the war, triggered by Nazi leader Adolf Hitler's decision to invade Poland." No mention is made of the fresh memory of an utterly annihilated Germany, debased and abused by the Treaty of Versailles, just a short time before. It must have seemed unbelievable to any Englishman that such a weak and beaten enemy could rise again to threaten Great Britain after the passage of just 20 years. But, alas, it was so.

Cogburn
08-19-2009, 09:16 AM
I believe I did title it "more proof".

This was not intended to explain every event that lead to the full outbreak of war, merely the coercion of the British people through a careful crafting of the media image.

It's not the thrust of the article, but it is the topic at hand.

It fits quite nicely with the work of Sutton, which we've discussed here at great length.

skunk
08-19-2009, 10:01 AM
I wonder if Cheney and Rumsfeld took notes from the British about how to force a nation to war.

boycotteverything
08-19-2009, 11:07 AM
I wonder if Cheney and Rumsfeld took notes from the British about how to force a nation to war.

And so shall we conclude that the Brits 'forced' the Second World War? You letting the NAZIs off the hook? Tell that to Poland, Scandinavia and Czechoslovakia.

And let's not overlook this:
I believe I did title it "more proof".
You certainly did entitle it that- but I see no sign of that elusive additional 'proof' you've alluded to.

skunk
08-19-2009, 01:10 PM
I'm not letting anyone off the hook. But they did sure learn a thing or two from the Nazis themselves.

Foxtrot Oscar
08-19-2009, 01:15 PM
I'm not letting anyone off the hook. But they did sure learn a thing or two from the Nazis themselves.

I'm not sure that any of your so called leaders have ever bothered to learn anything from History. They don't even seem to know how to properly collapse an economy!

Fox

boycotteverything
08-19-2009, 01:45 PM
They don't even seem to know how to properly collapse an economy! C'mon now, mate. Bush did an excellent job of that. Give credit where it's due.

boycotteverything
08-19-2009, 02:03 PM
I'm not letting anyone off the hook. But they did sure learn a thing or two from the Nazis themselves.


I wonder if Cheney and Rumsfeld took notes from the BritishOK. So let me see if I've got this straight. Rummy gained his mendacity from the Brits who had learned at the knee of the NAZIs. So in effect he and Cheney were learning from the NAZIs. Or am I missing something? On the other hand- as bad as Rummy, Dummy and the Dick were- they were always better than NAZIs. Sorta like NAZI-lite or something. And before you go off pissing on the Brits- read about Dunkirk. Read about the Blitz. Learn something from that brave nation. In the laying on of hands you're a tad late to the World War assembly. It's really only old news to you. For many of us it still qualifies as current events 101.

pack3tg0st
08-19-2009, 02:17 PM
Sorta like NAZI-lite or something.

Diet Nazi?


read about Dunkirk.

LOL the biggest mistake in Hitler's career: Not finishing em off at Dunkirk...

What the fuck was he thinking?

skunk
08-19-2009, 02:45 PM
Ha I'm pretty well versed on my history, especially WW2. But thanks gramps.

Shall I rephrase for the deaf and blind? The first post was a joke. I don't have any problem with the british (my mother is english). The second post should have read "cheney and rumsfeld learned a few things from the nazis." One can't forget Bush's brain, his father was a nazi right?

boycotteverything
08-19-2009, 07:52 PM
I think it may have been his grandfather. it doesn't matter. Rove was born in Kenya.

Cogburn
08-19-2009, 09:15 PM
Don't forget that Babs is Crowley's granddaughter!

mojo
08-20-2009, 05:12 AM
i need to add some of my own research to this thread but don't have time atm, nice post cog.
i will try and get to it this weekend if possible.

mojo
08-20-2009, 05:26 AM
oh and let me quickly add.


Learn something from that brave nation

you have got to be fucking joking, that brave nation never had any hesitation in abandoning it's colonial allies (australia, new zealand, malaya, singapore and many others) or sending them to their deaths in place of their own during numerous actions in all of those theatres of war.

try reading some history on the boer war, ww1 and ww2 and in particular the disgraceful way the british government has treated the amazingly brave and loyal ghurka's.

are you hoping for a blow job from chorlton or something?

WarlordZeroOne
08-20-2009, 07:23 AM
None of us can have a real and true argument because all and i mean all of our information is obtained from the media of any kind,or a living relative regarding WW2, none of us took part in that lousy war,i was born 2 years after 1945 in September 1947, and my father was on the Dunkirk Beach,he told me between the Fucking STUKAS bombing the Beach, then running to try and get on a boat as well as jumping over the DEAD and wounded,also each soldier who brought his rifle back home to the UK got a shilling,that tells me on that day ENGLAND was in the shit when the retreat took place,we are doing no justice throwing shit at each other when millions of men women and children lost their lives to that Bastard Hitler,and having this discussion and members taking the piss is out of order,by all mean lets have a discussion on that bastard HITLER,but don't be-little those people who suffered the consequences of WW2,we have just lost our last Tommy from that hell-hole of WW2. and my final point is the Poloticians have learnt Fuck-All from all the wars that have taken place since WW2 only that we all keep losing men and women also civilians WTF is going on.

skunk
08-20-2009, 08:46 AM
are you hoping for a blow job from chorlton or something?

hahahahahahaha