Meaning of the Caduceus

[theeindiee]

I've been studying symbolism a lot lately. I hesitate to say too much here, because it's worth it to piece together things on your own... but I found in several allegories the symbol of the caduceus. They may not all be obvious references to the caduceus, and furthermore, the caduceus itself is obviously just another metaphor as well, but the caduceus itself shows the allegory come together in one kind of cryptogram, which reveals more of the structure of the thinbg it describes....in my opinion.

Here's the caduceus:

http://www.magicallymystical.co.uk/images/products/ja3_caduceus.jpg

Now...

I have this sneaking suspicion that this allegory, used in the initiation to the third degree of the blue lodge of masonry, has some very similar elements in it:

The allegory of Hiram, Solomon's Master builder. He was murdered by the three ruffians, the builders who were supposed to be helping him build. Hiram was looking for his lost builders in the darkness. When God reunited the Master builder with his three ruffians, they murdered him instead. Hiram lay on his deathbed wondering why everything has forsaken him and renouncing his tools God had given him as Master Builder, and he is plunged into darkness again and finally death. Once the deed was done, God snatched up hiram's body in a winding white sheet, and upon this event, announced that Hiram's tools were rightfully his and the work was not complete. The three ruffians had realized just what they had done. They were sorrowful and repented to God upon their realization. They, too were now lost in the darkness. God appeared to the three builders again, and assured them that Hiram was not dead, but sleeping. Hethen gave them a small lamp and declared that with this lamp they shall be guided through the darkness to the gravesite of their slain Master. And so begins the journey through the Land of Night to reclaim the Master.

It is interesting to note the personifications of the three ruffians (my opinions are interlaced throughout this blurb. Feel free to re-interpret me.): Thought - in the form of an old stubborn grey bearded man. Desire, in the form of a beautiful, yet dissatisfied, young woman. And Action, a young man, who tries to be a hard worker, yet who is easily led astray of his own ambitions by thought and desire.

This Allegory has painted in my head a very interesting picture, and I wanna see if any of you see the resemblance to the symbolism of the caduceus. Also, if anyone else has any similar allegories/tales/interpretations they wanna contribute to describe their opinion of the symbolism of the caduceus.... it is possible that we may all find some greater meaning together here.

I look forward to the replies.

[Cogburn]

Remember the Latin lesson? There's a method to my madness.

Translate the symbolism piece by piece through perspective of the first culture in which it is evidenced. Then carry it forward through time, noting the symbolic meaning through each culture that adopted it.

You have two snakes entwined around a staff with an orb mounted on the top, with a wing attached to each side of the staff, directly under the orb.

Who had this first, the Greek, the Egyptians, the Indus or the Sumerians, and what did each of the pieces mean to them?

That will begin to give you a picture of what the symbol means in through entirety of its history.

If this shit were easy, everyone would do it. :)

[boycotteverything]

you bring out the old prep school latin student in me- stercus tauri. thanks.

[theeindiee]

Remember the Latin lesson? There's a method to my madness.

Translate the symbolism piece by piece through perspective of the first culture in which it is evidenced. Then carry it forward through time, noting the symbolic meaning through each culture that adopted it.

You have two snakes entwined around a staff with an orb mounted on the top, with a wing attached to each side of the staff, directly under the orb.

Who had this first, the Greek, the Egyptians, the Indus or the Sumerians, and what did each of the pieces mean to them?

That will begin to give you a picture of what the symbol means in through entirety of its history.

If this shit were easy, everyone would do it. :)

I should mention that, it was actually thinking about story of Hiram Abiff that led me to the caduceus. The story of Hiram mirrors back to me that strange picture I showed you the other day. The three faced man standing at the gates of darkness holding the trinity in his hands.

Why? That's what I'm trying to get concrete. I have this very interesting set of ideas that sprang forth and shined a caduceus in my mind.

I feel like I'm in the right ballpark. I may be in the bathroom not aware of the specifics of the game being played in the center, but I smell the hot dogs and I hear the voices of the crowd and the announcers from my current position i the toilet booth.

[mojo]

the cadaceus from my meager understanding of history first shows up in Sumer.
the symbology is pretty simple from my pov, death and rebirth though it also could be symbolic of the tree of life and its guardianship.
for a superstitious folk seeing a snake shed its old skin seemed miraculous to the sumerians, as though the snake had died, shed its skin and been born again anew, this is perhaps why the cadaceus and the rod of asclepius are sometimes confused, i believe the 2 symbols however are inextrcably linked..
there is also the symbolism of duality which doesn't exist with the rod of asclepius as that is one serpent entwined around a staff.
it's also thought that snakes were used in several medicinal practices as well and they were associated with certain herbal remedies and ethnogens.
there is also the added confusion of whether the symbolism relates to serpents or to snakes as the two are disimilar in their origins.

[mojo]

The earliest known image of 2 snakes entwined around a staff, from sometime before 2000BC from Sumer.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/mojo4sale/Ningizzida.jpg

http://www.ancient-mythology.com/mesopotamian/ningizzida.php

[offsite:2ubhbvgq]Ningizzida was a fertility god. Originally depicted as a serpent with a human head, Ningizzida became known as a magical god of healing.[/offsite:2ubhbvgq]

[KIWI]

the cadaceus from my meager understanding of history first shows up in Sumer.
the symbology is pretty simple from my pov, death and rebirth though it also could be symbolic of the tree of life and its guardianship.
for a superstitious folk seeing a snake shed its old skin seemed miraculous to the sumerians, as though the snake had died, shed its skin and been born again anew, this is perhaps why the cadaceus and the rod of asclepius are sometimes confused, i believe the 2 symbols however are inextrcably linked..
there is also the symbolism of duality which doesn't exist with the rod of asclepius as that is one serpent entwined around a staff.
it's also thought that snakes were used in several medicinal practices as well and they were associated with certain herbal remedies and ethnogens.
there is also the added confusion of whether the symbolism relates to serpents or to snakes as the two are disimilar in their origins.


maybe smybolism for blazing "snake-like" comet? :shock:

[Alessandra]

reminds me of the staff of hermes:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/gir_the_hobbit/CaduceuswithDNAHelixsm.jpg

[KIWI]

reminds me of the staff of hermes:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/gir_the_hobbit/CaduceuswithDNAHelixsm.jpg

:shock: :shock: .....shit Chi!.......maybe an early symbol for our DNA!

[Alessandra]

its pretty interesting, Ya?

[KIWI]

its pretty interesting, Ya?

it sure is!.........the notion of a styalised "helix" (double) is as good as any other :smokin:

smited

[Alessandra]

http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html


Many "medical" organisations use a symbol of a short rod entwined by two snakes and topped by a pair of wings, which is actually the caduceus or magic wand of the Greek god Hermes (Roman Mercury), messenger of the gods, inventor of (magical) incantations, conductor of the dead and protector of merchants and thieves. It is derived from the Greek karykeion = "herald's staff", itself based on the word "eruko" meaning restrain, control.

...

The link between the caduceus of Hermes (Mercury) and medicine seems to have arisen by the seventh century A.D., when Hermes had come to be linked with alchemy. Alchemists were referred to as the sons of Hermes, as Hermetists or Hermeticists and as "practitioners of the hermetic arts". There are clear occult associations with the caduceus.

The caduceus was the magic staff of Hermes (Mercury), the god of commerce, eloquence, invention, travel and theft, and so was a symbol of heralds and commerce, not medicine. The words caduity & caducous imply temporality, perishableness and senility, while the medical profession espouses renewal, vitality and health.

...

The caduceus in pseudo-science: There are amazing claims that a Cadeuceus Power Wand has zero impedance and infinite resonance!

...

http://drblayney.com/images/2001logb.gif



you can also take away the fact that this resembles Kundalini energy, working its way up the spine.

[KIWI]

....which is actually the caduceus or magic wand of the Greek god Hermes (Roman Mercury), messenger of the gods, inventor of (magical) incantations, conductor of the dead and protector of merchants and thieves. It is derived from the Greek karykeion = "herald's staff",

and the theiving Greeks nicked it from......?

[Cogburn]

Long touted in UFOlogy circles, the mercury vortex engine as some have thought described in the Samarangana Sutradhara, is actually grounded in scientific fact.

Note the shape of the diagram on the left hand side of the screen that indicates polarity of the created forces. A particle within that field is levitated upwards in a spiral pattern.

f]q8y5VG_3ybkf]

Basically, the mercury engine creates an "electric wind" under the vehicle... and might also explain why UFOs are so rarely seen outside the atmosphere...

[KIWI]

its pretty interesting, Ya?

some of the design and art are just mindblowing in their own right a ? this below was found by a fossicker with a metal detector in the UK, blows me away, said to be a Black Diamond, date given about 11th cent, wonder what they used to shape the stone.....

[attachment=0:2aucjbfl]article-1047349-025B281C00000578-969_233x361_popup.jpg[/attachment:2aucjbfl]

[KIWI]

Is the triangular "wing" not been described as a capacitor?....the US army Labs did a paper on it, cant trust them to tell all though a ?

the mercury-iron has a unusual relationship.....

8]0hxt6hd-wV08]


this is mercury exposed to electromagnetism......think I got that right?
8]MperC7ySjSU8]

[mojo]

reminds me of the staff of hermes:




the staff of hermes and the rod of asclepius are one and the same.

[Alessandra]

reminds me of the staff of hermes:




the staff of hermes and the rod of asclepius are one and the same.


Thanks, mojo. I read some sources saying there were slight differences -_-

[mojo]

reminds me of the staff of hermes:




the staff of hermes and the rod of asclepius are one and the same.


Thanks, mojo. I read some sources saying there were slight differences -_-

those sources are fuckheads, i have the sauce you require. :)

[theeindiee]

Is the triangular "wing" not been described as a capacitor?....the US army Labs did a paper on it, cant trust them to tell all though a ?

the mercury-iron has a unusual relationship.....

7]0hxt6hd-wV07]


this is mercury exposed to electromagnetism......think I got that right?
7]MperC7ySjSU7]

HOLY SHIT!!!!!

That was quite a mystical experience to watch.

My starry eyes!

Thanks!

[Alessandra]

those sources are fuckheads, i have the sauce you require. :)


Sauce?

[Lexion]

those sources are fuckheads, i have the sauce you require. :)


Sauce?

Giggity,
Lex

[Alessandra]

those sources are fuckheads, i have the sauce you require. :)


Sauce?

Giggity,
Lex


And lex comes crawling out of his den :lol:

[boycotteverything]

those sources are fuckheads, i have the sauce you require. :)


Sauce?Gotta smite the eye!

[KIWI]

Gotta smite the eye!


....you have some interesting personal habits :pound: ,dont feel ashamed , everyone does it :lol:

[Ocean]

What a sordid education.
So it's true then...
Intellect and insanity CAN make nice.
Great thread, you smart ones.

[theeindiee]

Inextricably, all the symbolic pieces come together in the end. Not saying I have all of it pieced together, but the only way three builders can find their way through the darkness is by becoming a fourth thing under the direction of God's Will. This is a cyclical thing. With each cycle, the day and night become wider expressions of themselves, and the sun disk with wings at the top represents these three forces coming together as one.... the Supreme Will set free to fly.

At this point, it doesn't matter yet how the symbol developed. It does just about as much to study the symbols and the associated allegories and mythologies and concepts hidden within them. I have vaguely an idea of how it came to be the caduceus of today, but that is not where my info comes from. The caduceus was the furthest thing from my mind.

The map is not the territory.

I risk saying much more. I guess it's possible that save maybe one or two of us, nobody would get it.... but it is a huge thing, in my opinion... and it would be a disservice to everybody to even risk being completely wrong. If I ruin the mystery, I ruin the journey.

If others see what I do based on a few symbolic metaphors, I've done no more harm than any other occult researcher.

Ocean... why do you wish to be cynical?

[Alessandra]

God's will?

Honey, my will is "God's Will"

:)

[theeindiee]

Prove it.

[Alessandra]

Prove it.


Prove it? Prove it to yourself. All our will = God's Will. We're all "God".

[theeindiee]

Prove it.


Prove it? Prove it to yourself. All our will = God's Will. We're all "God".

Fair enough.

I am humbly defeated.

So any way... how bout all the rest of it?

[theeindiee]

I'd like to mention again that everything I say is a lie.

[Alessandra]

I'd like to mention again that everything I say is a lie.

Is it?

[theeindiee]

It's definitely a lie. How can words be true to the meaning when words get misconstrued constantly just by the pure generality of the English Language?

Everything everyone says is a lie. It's a generalized veil. Thought cannot be expressed by words at all, and experience most definitely can't, lest for the few very exceptional empaths. To everyone else, any fntastic story or abstract concept that they can't picture in the general way gets tossed aide. The English language is a mental prison, and the only way out of it is to dance around it and exorcize the the true meaning from it by careful contemplation... and nobody thinks anything of dancing and contemplation anymore. It's a lot more than just thinking a series of thoughts.

The devil is in the details. God lies somewhere behind and beyond the details.

We are all God is the new way of sayng "Oh well."

You (the general plural version) are not God until you realize it. Until then, you are a wriggling pile of dead matter just barely animated by the shadow of sentience, or at most you're dancing with shadows...

That's still being a yes man. Each of us realizes our own God form. There is not one God. There is infinite Gods and Goddesses and Androgynous Godmaphodites, but there is no "We are all God". That suggests that we are all part of this big huge reality monster, and that we can only ever hope to manipulate our little section of the fur of the beast, and other than that we are helpless when its paws come scratching.

Gods control their own beast. The keys to becoming the lion tamer lie in archaic symbolism. Other than that... you are just a moving pile of meat who thinks highly of its destiny as being food for the reality monster. Instead of that, become the reality monster.

[Ducky]

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/CanuckyDucky/caduceus.jpg

[theeindiee]

Recipe..... mmm mmmm goooooood eats, for some good caduceus recipies, try Hermes T.'s Alchemist's Cookbook.

[boycotteverything]

I'd like to mention again that everything I say is a lie....less a lie than a wank. but either way it's trivial.

[theeindiee]

wanking is a perfectly legitimate device.

Wank!

[boycotteverything]

sure. it's a sort of celebration of self but tedious to witness

[Cogburn]

BE's honed intellectual wanking to an art form. You're talking with a master, my friend.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkyyyyyyyyyyyyy. ........

This is not about the content of your image so much as the context.

Beyond reading too much into the artistic jewel placed into the particular image indiee provided, you offer no linkages for your bolded questions. Why even ask such questions where there's no evidence in this thread to indicate such questions are relevant?

Think about it this way: you're a reporter. You get a hot tip on a story... One source clues you in that something is going on, but your boss (the editor) is going to laugh in your face if you can't find another independent source that backs up the first.

The DNA double helix and the entwining of the snakes are a good start, but that's not a slam dunk connection. Is there other evidence within those cultures that might further indicate knowledge of DNA sequences? Do those cultures then link that knowledge of DNA sequences to the Caduceus?

EDIT: Freud wasn't totally batshit crazy. Sometimes a rose is, indeed, just a rose.

[boycotteverything]

EDIT: Freud wasn't totally batshit crazy. Sometimes a rose is, indeed, just a rose....not to be confused with Gertrude Stein of course.

[Ducky]

BE's honed intellectual wanking to an art form. You're talking with a master, my friend.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkyyyyyyyyyyyyy. ........

This is not about the content of your image so much as the context.

I'm trying. lolol
Lord knows...I'm trying :D


Beyond reading too much into the artistic jewel placed into the particular image indiee provided, you offer no linkages for your bolded questions. Why even ask such questions where there's no evidence in this thread to indicate such questions are relevant?

Because I made the blatent mistake of a s s u m i n g that we all knew the 'jist' of the basic stories behind the images, and didn't want to bore anyone with redundant links. :P Lest break every single idea down into it's most simplest forms by going that route.

Appologies. I jumped the gun by jumping ahead with basic assumptions. However, these symbologies can be rendered to be almost anything by anyone's standards. Not too hard to look up with any interfaces - via online, books, etc.


The DNA double helix and the entwining of the snakes are a good start, but that's not a slam dunk connection. Is there other evidence within those cultures that might further indicate knowledge of DNA sequences? Do those cultures then link that knowledge of DNA sequences to the Caduceus?

I'll do you and everyone else the courtesy of digging deeper :D

And as you're my editor now...lololol...would you do me the courtesy of telling me that I'm on the right track?

[Cogburn]

Hehehe... I'm just trying to make more know-it-all's like myself. :) We're all editors here. No one's bullshit is above scrutiny.

Memorization of facts is less important than knowing how you to find facts... or even how to tell if something is a "fact" is in the first place. If you can find your own facts, you can answer any question that comes along ... and then one shares the results, which might trigger something from someone else. If you can't find the facts, you bring what you have to the table and ask for assistance. Perhaps the facts don't exist and the avenue of research is fruitless and another should be pursued.

Some logical leaps are ok, but making too great a leap requires supporting evidence. We ask when we want to see supporting evidence, which is what I did.

There is no "right track" for research... except the method of research itself.

[theeindiee]

Eh it's okay. Not everyone MUST GET IT OR DIE NOW NOW NOW!

It's just kinda cool when you do get it.

It's actually kind of...simple.... which really really makes you laugh out loud when you get it, and that's why these things are the most valuable when people like ducky dive in and swim around and don't assume to know everything. That's all I did, was dive in and swim around.

That's all anyone has to do. There need not be Gods reigning over mere mortals. Mere mortals are entitled to Godhood, every last one.

Baby Gods in awkward shells make mighty gods and goddesses.

Never doubt who you are and your position in the world.

It is mighty.

[Ocean]

Ocean... why do you wish to be cynical?


Cynical? Moi? Not at all.
My comment was only a reference to the elasticity here. You make some very interesting observations (as do others).
But, I do SO MUCH appreciate being able to read peoples' ideas - uncensored. And I'm not referring to language/innuendo. (which I did reference tongue-in-cheek as 'sordid')
Thanks for the thread! :)

BTW, I tend toward the DNA connection but I have no references and certainly no proof.

[Alessandra]

Eh it's okay. Not everyone MUST GET IT OR DIE NOW NOW NOW!

It's just kinda cool when you do get it.

It's actually kind of...simple.... which really really makes you laugh out loud when you get it, and that's why these things are the most valuable when people like ducky dive in and swim around and don't assume to know everything. That's all I did, was dive in and swim around.

That's all anyone has to do. There need not be Gods reigning over mere mortals. Mere mortals are entitled to Godhood, every last one.

Baby Gods in awkward shells make mighty gods and goddesses.

Never doubt who you are and your position in the world.

It is mighty.


daddy, my shoes are too big.


Also, the spoon is too big =\

[theeindiee]

Ocean... why do you wish to be cynical?


Cynical? Moi? Not at all.
My comment was only a reference to the elasticity here. You make some very interesting observations (as do others).
But, I do SO MUCH appreciate being able to read peoples' ideas - uncensored. And I'm not referring to language/innuendo. (which I did reference tongue-in-cheek as 'sordid')
Thanks for the thread! :)

BTW, I tend toward the DNA connection but I have no references and certainly no proof.

Oh I apologize. I misread it.... and I was gunna correct the error but figured I may also have misread my misreading. :lol:

T's allgood.

[Ocean]

....I may also have misread my misreading. :lol:
T's allgood.

{laughing}

Yes! All good.

[Cogburn]

Also, the spoon is too big =\That's not where it goes, dear.

[KIWI]

Also, the spoon is too big =\That's not where it goes, dear.
just call 'Uri".........0800 spoons-are-us

[Alessandra]

Also, the spoon is too big =\That's not where it goes, dear.
*facepalm