View Full Version : ATS Content Copyright Clarification/Information
skunk
07-14-2009, 01:52 AM
I decided to check and see if my sock has been banned yet today and found a rather interesting message in my u2u box.
Check this funny shit out (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread191290/pg1#pid6698905)
July, 2009: UPDATE
There has been some confusion (and probably will continue to be, no matter what we do) and horrible misunderstandings about what happens to your content when you post it to AboveTopSecret.com.
First, to make things crystal clear, when you post to ATS we do not own your content. You still own it, but by posting here, you grant us the following:
1) The right to publish what you post online, giving credit to you, and referencing the context of the thread in which you posted.
2) The status of "authorized agent" should there be a dispute regarding unauthorized use of your content on other sites or publishing mediums.
3) The right to republish what you post in other forms -- for example, excerpts of many posts were included in our book.
4) The ability, as needed, to modify what you've posted -- for example, if we receive notice of a copyright violation in all or a portion of your post.
If you post something to ATS, you can still:
1) Post it elsewhere -- though multi-form cross-posting is generally considered bad Internet etiquette
2) Publish it elsewhere for fame and fortune -- there have been two occasions where members had works accepted by magazines that included portions of their posts on ATS, and the magazine requested removal before paying the author... we complied and removed the posts that ended up affording our members some personal income.
Again, we never have, nor never will claim ownership of what you post to ATS, only the right to publish it, and the ability to defend the integrity of our threads.
There are some exceptions.
For example, John Barbour entered an exclusive online distribution agreement with us for his Garrison Tapes. This is the first opportunity, in many years, where he's been able to derive personal income from US-distribution of this movie. We share a significant portion of the ad revenue with him, as is the case with all our pro-video titles.
Our policies are not intended to stifle discussion.
Far from it. In fact, the guidelines of our creative commons deed are very liberal, more liberal than many other sites. We allow and encourage entire posts to be copied to other sites, as long as the author is given credit, and there is a clearly labeled link-back to the post and thread. The reason for the link is to provide readers (on the other site) a means to view the post in context with the full thread... as is most often the case, threads evolve and context can be vitally important.
Our policies are not intended to restrict your content to ATS.
Over the past year, I've personally given out more than forty authorizations to people looking to use the content of ATS members in various educational endeavors. Most often the intended medium was print, and in those cases permission was granted as long as the ATS member name was cited as the author, ATS was indicated as the source, and the title of the thread was used to define the source content.
I hope this clears things up.
Cogburn
07-14-2009, 02:14 AM
The reason for the link is to provide readers (on the other site) a means to view the post in context with the full thread... as is most often the case, threads evolve and context can be vitally important.
Hmmm... Were one to continue to directly update any copied threads on ATS when there was just such an update it would certainly satisfy this condition and therefore the need for attribution would be negated, no? Threads that were locked would be the easiest to quote from.
Unless, of course, that's total bullshit and it's really to drive advertising impressions... they wouldn't lie to you, would they?
Cogburn
07-14-2009, 02:23 AM
Adding this bit... A communication between SO and Trinity.
Clipped wholly from GLP... without their permission and without attribution.
Re: ATS Now Claiming If You Post There You Give Them Power of Attorney! pg8 - NEW DMCA THREAT!! - pg9 Quote
Looks like he's now made some clarifications to his copyright policy...
lol
---
reply posted on 13-7-2009 @ 03:17 PM by SkepticOverlord
July, 2009: UPDATE
There has been some confusion (and probably will continue to be, no matter what we do) and horrible misunderstandings about what happens to your content when you post it to nolinks.com.
First, to make things crystal clear, when you post to ATS we do not own your content. You still own it, but by posting here, you grant us the following:
1) The right to publish what you post online, giving credit to you, and referencing the context of the thread in which you posted.
2) The status of "authorized agent" should there be a dispute regarding unauthorized use of your content on other sites or publishing mediums.
3) The right to republish what you post in other forms -- for example, excerpts of many posts were included in our book.
4) The ability, as needed, to modify what you've posted -- for example, if we receive notice of a copyright violation in all or a portion of your post.
If you post something to ATS, you can still:
1) Post it elsewhere -- though multi-form cross-posting is generally considered bad Internet etiquette (note from trin: but he might sue the place you post it at without your knowledge or consent)
2) Publish it elsewhere for fame and fortune -- there have been two occasions where members had works accepted by magazines that included portions of their posts on ATS, and the magazine requested removal before paying the author... we complied and removed the posts that ended up affording our members some personal income. (note from trin: but again he could if he so chooses threaten whoever he likes without informing you should you publish your material elsewhere)
Again, we never have, nor never will claim ownership of what you post to ATS, only the right to publish it, and the ability to defend the integrity of our threads. (note from trin: now we will pretend to be your legal representative and harass people without your prior knowledge, input, or consent.)
---
Last Edited by ^TrInItY^ on 7/13/2009 at 8:16 PM
Few will listen,
Of the few who listen, fewer still will understand,
Understanding does not mean believe,
Of the handful who believe, most may not know what to do,
Those who even know, how many will actually do ?
And the rare ones who have done it.......
Need not listen to you anymore.
Jackinthebox
07-14-2009, 11:32 PM
What if I don't want them to use my stuff now that I've been banned without explanation? Guess I'm outta luck. ATS suks.
pack3tg0st
07-14-2009, 11:37 PM
Actually... have you posted on ATS after May 19, 2009?
Bill modified his T&C on that date to add that the non-exclusive permissions were non revoke-able...
This is because we discovered a loophole in his T&C that allowed us to Revoke his non-exclusive privileges at any time, and demand our material be removed from his website...
Anything posted before that date should be subject to that loophole...
However, it gets "grey" if you posted after that date... Their Lawyers will argue that you agreed to the New T&C...
You can always argue that you didn't know it changed... as he didn't announce the change to his membership LOL
There are ways man...
Jackinthebox
07-14-2009, 11:43 PM
Actually... have you posted on ATS after May 19, 2009?
Bill modified his T&C on that date to add that the non-exclusive permissions were non revoke-able...
This is because we discovered a loophole in his T&C that allowed us to Revoke his non-exclusive privileges at any time, and demand our material be removed from his website...
Anything posted before that date should be subject to that loophole...
However, it gets "grey" if you posted after that date... Their Lawyers will argue that you agreed to the New T&C...
You can always argue that you didn't know it changed... as he didn't announce the change to his membership LOL
There are ways man...
No, I got banned like a year or two ago from there. Same name over there if you want to look at any of my material. I came here for a while after than, and over to RU to tell the story in their ATS Watch forum. But mostly I'm on GLP now. I pretty much dropped the ball on serious CT research and got more into social stuff.
My favorite is their ability to make money off your posts and research but you are expected to not make money off of theirs. So a commercial site reposting one post would be in violation.
The links are all Google flooding. An IP isn't good enough for them although it would satisfy "The reason for the link is to provide readers (on the other site) a means to view the post in context with the full thread... as is most often the case, threads evolve and context can be vitally important."
We saw that go over well here.
pack3tg0st
07-14-2009, 11:47 PM
You should be able to exploit that loophole in the T&C then...
All you should have to do is notify him in writing that you, the copywrite owner, are revoking any privileges to your material, non-exclusive or otherwise, and request he remove it from his site...
If he doesn't, DCMA him...
Make sure you do it in writing instead of email... and you might wanna put it in more "legaleze" terms...
Jackinthebox
07-15-2009, 12:18 AM
Ive thought about it. But then at the same time, it just feels like I would be playing his stupid fucking game then, stooping to his level, just to get back at him. Self-censorship just doesn't seem like the way to go either.
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 12:43 AM
nah, Bill's game isn't really a game...
He just wants to win...
Its all about converting clicks to cash for them...
Jackinthebox
07-15-2009, 01:00 AM
nah, Bill's game isn't really a game...
He just wants to win...
Its all about converting clicks to cash for them...
For the most part I think. Even resorting to hoaxes I think. But still, it seems to me that I ruffled some feathers somehow that didn't have anything to do with turning away traffic. I had a descent following there and actually stuck up for them a lot when people would run them down. Dummy me.
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 01:02 AM
Even resorting to hoaxes I think.
Yup...
Whispersinthedark is probably a hoax...
Ever look up the Chicago O'hare UFO photo that bill posted?
SERPO...
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 01:04 AM
ubertard and sphincter figured out how to make money off of worthless electronic plaints in the void. but in the end it was mostly simon's doing. those two clowns are essentially parasites.
Bitchkoma
07-15-2009, 01:12 AM
Fungus.
Many species begin as saprophytes to plants, helping them with water absorption in exchange for nutrients. But once they've gained critical mass, it only takes a moment of weakness in the hosts defenses for them to switch to parasitic mode.
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 01:14 AM
hahahahah. thanks for the clarification!
Jackinthebox
07-15-2009, 01:19 AM
Even resorting to hoaxes I think.
Yup...
Whispersinthedark is probably a hoax...
Ever look up the Chicago O'hare UFO photo that bill posted?
SERPO...
Yup, that was the one I was thinking of. There were at least one or two others as well. They also like to whip up a fervor over old stuff and present it as new. They do it with a certain style too, to really get people worked up as if they're really onto something. Whe, I first joined over there they hit me with big bonus points when I tied together a strange meteor in Africa with Black Knight. They were trying to whip up interest in the meteor from back in the 60's. Which I guess that's not really unethical I suppose, but it makes me wonder how far they would go. Supposedly they were talking about doing a whole expedition or some shit if I remember right, then suddenly the whole story just died right after I brought Black Knight into it.
Which again make me wonder if they are told to steer clear of the "real" stuff.
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 01:24 AM
how the hell did you last so long over there? i was banned within 10 minutes- and the entire cartoonsyndicate puppet show in less than a week.
GhostOfCaptSpaulding
07-15-2009, 01:29 AM
Which again make me wonder if they are told to steer clear of the "real" stuff.
NO doubt!
Welcome back, thought that was you...
Tight avatar!
Jackinthebox
07-15-2009, 01:30 AM
how the hell did you last so long over there? i was banned within 10 minutes- and the entire cartoonsyndicate puppet show in less than a week.
I just tried to keep it very "professional" and respectful. That's why they had to resort to other tactics. Now I got pretty mouthy in some U2U's with the mods, but never any threats or anything.
Jackinthebox
07-15-2009, 01:32 AM
NO doubt!
Welcome back, thought that was you...
Tight avatar!
Thanks man. I'll have to check back here more often I think. I like the format over here a lot better than GLP. I just wish there was as much traffic.
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 01:33 AM
I just tried to keep it very "professional" and respectful.oh. hahahaha I guess that was my problem- short tolerance for assholery.
Just ran across this version of an example over there...
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/mojo4sale/linkbanner.jpg
[offsite=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread191290/pg1:1p710r2m]Information About the AboveTopSecret.com Creative Commons Content Deed.
by soficrow
posted on 7/14/2009 @ 21:23
Oh my. I get a bit of a life and miss all the excitement on ATS. (The Winnipeg Jazz and Folk festivals were amazing btw.)
FYI - I cheered when ATS adopted the Creative Commons license agreement. YEAH!!! skeptic, simon, springer et al. ...Many (most?) other sites DO claim full ownership of post content.
IMHO - Our guys are AWESOME! Thank you skeptic, simon, springer et al for doing right by everyone and everything you can.
Also FYI - I support Open Access for scientific research, and Creative Commons for artistic works. [See avatar, left.]
...If you've read my posts, you know that I do a huge amount of research and post loads of references with links. Even though I don't get paid for posting here. I do it because I believe in it, and I care.
You may NOT know that if I think something important is being "missed" by the mainstream, I occasionally send my article's lead paragraph and ATS link to hotshot famous reporters who work for established mainstream publications. Which means I'm essentially inviting them to steal my work. It works too. Kinda like Abby Hoffman(?), who wrote "Steal This Book." ...Of course, the book went out of print because everyone did...
In fact, it's quite common for me to see my research and analysis rewritten and repackaged - often within days of posting here - and published elsewhere.
<snip>
roadgravel
posted on 7/14/2009 @ 22:55
<snip above post quote>
That sounds like an obvious violation of the CC here.
If the source that is being used is from this site then isn't that a Derivative work.
SkepticOverlord
posted on 7/14/2009 @ 23:02
Originally posted by roadgravel
That sounds like an obvious violation of the CC here.
There seems to be some really fundamental misunderstandings of some of the core concepts here.
In the case Soficrow described, it's perfectly fine since she is the author and can seek additional publication on her own outside ATS.
If someone took her work off ATS without her permission, and without giving her and ATS credit, then it would be a problem.[/offsite:1p710r2m]
The points outlined as required:
1) The member's name is credited as author
2) The member and ATS are credited as co-owners
3) The thread title is indicated
4) A link is included to the first page of the thread
5) The content is not used for a derivative work
6) The content is not used for commercial purposes
Where does the member's permission come into play by the guidelines? Member gave that up when posting.
But the Op implies derivative use and, given many news outlets are for profit or commercial, then commercial use. Sending an ATS link implies that is the source for the third party to use.
Sounds more and more that this DMCA situation is just being used to harass anyone where there is an axe to grind.
It should just say 'this is what i will demand if I feel like it. Play my game and I'll look the other way.' No wonder no one is taking this seriously except members with the fear of a banning.
It's their site, so their rules, but it gives the appearance of poor ethics and may be overstepping the spirit of the rules when applied in such a way.
I would think many could just say it's to difficult to know the intent as demonstrated and shouldn't apply.
edit:tag
Ive no doubt it's all about harrassment HP.
WOOF WOOF.....we are the big dogs, roll over and bare your bellies.
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 10:30 AM
I hope that the GLP/Amkon collaboration last night has finally established for all the world to see that Bill Irvin and his butt-boy Mark Allin are nothing more than classic bullies. For all their puffery about copyrights and intellectual property they've simply betrayed themselves as petulant and vainglorious guardians of a trivial, greedy little borg. They'll soon learn the painful lesson that their ban hammer has no effect beyond the borders of their own vapid enterprise. Members are bleeding out of ATS in a stream that's soon to be a torrent and I fully expect that we'll shortly witness the decline and fall of that evil empire.
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 11:30 AM
There has got to be a strategy with all this BE....
I'm trying to figure out what it could be though...
How could ATS possibly benefit from all the negative publicity... I know the old saying, there's no such thing as bad publicity... But I don't think it applies..
They harassed us... then they harass GLP... he has to know by now that we won't roll over... and we know by now he'll never file a lawsuit...
Its a mexican stand off...
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 11:50 AM
How could ATS possibly benefit from all the negative publicity... I know the old saying, there's no such thing as bad publicity... But I don't think it applies..
I think you're right. Sometimes we dig too deeply and ignore the obvious. ATS will not benefit from the negative publicity in the long run. Their cheap, coercive ways have paved the road to their own dissolution. Springer will soon be back to milking his Indian country chickens in the outback of Oklahoma- never to be heard from again. These guy's are petty gauleiters who've come to see their minor success on the web as permanent. It's the same sort of hubris that condemned Mark's spin-off, RU, to failure. Ultimately the world rejects bullies. End of story.
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 12:09 PM
I didn't know Mark started RU...
wierd... wonder what the fuckin' story on that one is
New Amkon.net Disclaimer.
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Amkon.net is not liable for your or anyone elses stupidity, virginity, promiscuity, malfeasance, incorrigibility, ignorance, pomposity or general assholedness. Anything posted on this website by you is done so at your own risk of ridicule, badgering or taunting. All of the letters that you use to form words, sentences and paragraphs are owned by us in perpetuity to be used as we please. We also have the right to sell your home or car to cover our expenses for running this site for your convenience. We also own the pixels that make up the words that you type no matter what resolution your screen is set too.
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This forum may contain information that is confidential, privileged, ridiculous, smutty or unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour or irrational religious beliefs.
All content of Amkon.net is copyrighted and is protected by worldwide copyright laws and treaty provisions. They may not be copied, reproduced, modified, published, uploaded, posted, transmitted, or distributed in any way without Jasn's prior written permission, which is freely granted as long as you don't take the author's name off in some lame attempt to either hide the materials origin or in the hilarious belief that the receiver of this material will think that you created it on your own, or somehow will think you more clever and intelligent than you really are.
Furthermore any vainglorious pricks who attempt to bully any member of this site will be treated with disrespect, ignored and spat upon.
This disclaimer does not cover misuse, accident, lightning, flood, tornado, tsunami, volcanic eruption, earthquake, hurricanes and other Acts of God, neglect, damage from improper reading, incorrect line voltage, improper or unauthorized use, broken antenna or marred cabinet, missing or altered serial numbers, removal of tag, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts, sonic boom, crash, ship sinking or taking on water, motor vehicle crashing, dropping the item, falling rocks, leaky roof, broken glass, mud slides, forest fire, or projectile (which can include, but not be limited to, arrows, bullets, shot, BB’s, paintball, shrapnel, lasers, napalm, torpedoes, or emissions of X-rays, Alpha, Beta and Gamma rays, knives, stones, etc.).
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 12:16 PM
"This disclaimer does not cover Harassment from William Irvine (http://work.williamirvine.com http://www.williamirvine.com)"
"This disclaimer does not cover Harassment from William Irvine (http://work.williamirvine.com http://www.williamirvine.com)"
yes it does.
Furthermore any vainglorious pricks who attempt to bully any member of this site will be treated with disrespect, ignored and spat upon.
:)
I like it.
Might want to add 'mass toilet flushing' and the fact the flotsam from shredded member egos and posts is still the property of Amkon. All salvage rights reserved.
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 12:20 PM
lol nice
wonder Why we haven't heard from bill in a while... is he preparing DMCA again after we took the WITD thread public last night? lol
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 12:26 PM
I didn't know Mark started RU...
wierd... wonder what the fuckin' story on that one isHe didn't start it, he co-opted and enabled it. The forum was started by a couple of credulous Serpoista refugees from OM- Ryan Dubious and Steve Broadbent. They were soon joined by Trailorgirl Shawanna and Springer- all of whom arrogated to themselves the title of 'researchers.' The original circle jerk became a circular firing squad a couple of years ago and has stagnated ever since- one-post-per-week sort of stagnation.
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 12:27 PM
"This disclaimer does not cover Harassment from William Irvine (http://work.williamirvine.com http://www.williamirvine.com)"
yes it does.
Furthermore any vainglorious pricks who attempt to bully any member of this site will be treated with disrespect, ignored and spat upon.
:)Do I get credit for inspiring that line?
...Bill Irvin and his butt-boy Mark Allin are nothing more than classic bullies. For all their puffery about copyrights and intellectual property they've simply betrayed themselves as petulant and vainglorious guardians of a trivial, greedy little borg.
Do I get credit for inspiring that line?
No...we own your words remember, and the pixels and the air you breathe while typing those words. :)
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 12:40 PM
hahahaha oh yeah. i regressed but i'm back on board again. it belongs to the world now! but it still warrants repeating-
...Bill Irvin and his butt-boy Mark Allin are nothing more than classic bullies. For all their puffery about copyrights and intellectual property they've simply betrayed themselves as petulant and vainglorious guardians of a trivial, greedy little borg.
Foxtrot Oscar
07-15-2009, 01:01 PM
New Amkon.net Disclaimer.
This disclaimer does not cover anything of any importance whatsoever.
Amkon.net is not liable for your or anyone elses stupidity, virginity, promiscuity, malfeasance, incorrigibility, ignorance, pomposity or general assholedness. Anything posted on this website by you is done so at your own risk of ridicule, badgering or taunting. All of the letters that you use to form words, sentences and paragraphs are owned by us in perpetuity to be used as we please. We also have the right to sell your home or car to cover our expenses for running this site for your convenience. We also own the pixels that make up the words that you type no matter what resolution your screen is set too.
All of the air that you are breathing whilst you are using this site is also the property of Amkon.net, as is the god that you pray to. That's right mother bitches, we own that fucker too.
This forum may contain information that is confidential, privileged, ridiculous, smutty or unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour, irrational religious beliefs and with a penis like a baby shrew.
All content of Amkon.net is copyrighted and is protected by worldwide copyright laws and treaty provisions. They may not be copied, reproduced, modified, published, uploaded, posted, transmitted, or distributed in any way without Jasn's prior written permission, which is freely granted as long as you don't take the author's name off in some lame attempt to either hide the materials origin or in the hilarious belief that the receiver of this material will think that you created it on your own, or somehow will think you more clever and intelligent than you really are.
Furthermore any vainglorious pricks who attempt to bully any member of this site will be treated with disrespect, ignored and spat upon and beaten to death with their own shoes.
This disclaimer does not cover misuse, accident, lightning, flood, tornado, tsunami, volcanic eruption, earthquake, hurricanes, rabid ninja weasels and other Acts of God, neglect, damage from improper reading, incorrect line voltage, improper or unauthorized use, broken antenna or marred cabinet, missing or altered serial numbers, removal of tag, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts, sonic boom, crash, ship sinking or taking on water, motor vehicle crashing, dropping the item, falling rocks, leaky roof, broken glass, mud slides, forest fire, or projectile (which can include, but not be limited to, arrows, bullets, shot, BB’s, paintball, vomit, shrapnel, lasers, napalm, torpedoes, or emissions of X-rays, Alpha, Beta and Gamma rays, knives, stones, etc.).
It's nearly there you know!
Fox
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 01:06 PM
wait...
where's the part about photoshopping dicks to people's foreheads?
and the "sketch or it didn't happen" thing...
Foxtrot Oscar
07-15-2009, 01:15 PM
...and being Cogburned and having to pretend to understand all that Canadian crap that Ducky waffles on about?!?!?!
Please refer to the "New Amkonese Handbook".
Fox
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 01:51 PM
wait...
where's the part about photoshopping dicks to people's foreheads?
and the "sketch or it didn't happen" thing...don't fuckin get me started, farm boy.
Jackinthebox
07-15-2009, 01:52 PM
I didn't know Mark started RU...
wierd... wonder what the fuckin' story on that one is
Yeah, that's kinda weird. I went to RU because of their ATS Watch forum to post the details of my banning at ATS. They didn't seem to be ATS friendly at all.
EDIT to add: And there were some bannings at ATS regarding links to that forum as well if I remember correctly. Though they did talk about it a little as well, trying to do some damage control I thought, before they finally wanted it to just go away.
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 02:13 PM
Yeah, that's kinda weird. I went to RU because of their ATS Watch forum to post the details of my banning at ATS. They didn't seem to be ATS friendly at all.There's some history to that. Trailorgirl Shawanna brought in a fascist debunker named Access Denied who was involved in a juvenile pissing contest with Springer at ATS. After Trailorgirl was fired as a mod (for being her pleasant self)- this AD character took her place in the pantheon. He convinced Dube that Springer was a lying piece of shit and the ATS truther thread was born. Arbitrary bannings and a general disregard for any semblance of fairness ensued and persists to this day. I was banned, Trailorgirl Shawanna was banned, Springer was banned, Bill was banned, ultimately Corlton and John Lear were banned- it was a regular beer hall putsch. Only the most loyal, i.e. deceitful, gauleiters survived. And so it remains...
GhostOfCaptSpaulding
07-15-2009, 02:15 PM
"This disclaimer does not cover Harassment from William Irvine (http://www.williamirvine.com)"
Heh, his "user sauce" expired last October...
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 02:18 PM
ROTFLMAO
holy shit it did!!
that... makes sense actually...
smite...
GhostOfCaptSpaulding
07-15-2009, 02:20 PM
And I'll bet it's chock full of HFCS...
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 02:27 PM
Does he expect people to believe he thinks this?
http://www.williamirvine.com/images/c.gif
what a lie
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 02:30 PM
lest this get buried under a pile of trivia-
Yeah, that's kinda weird. I went to RU because of their ATS Watch forum to post the details of my banning at ATS. They didn't seem to be ATS friendly at all.
There's some history to that. Trailorgirl Shawanna brought in a fascist debunker named Access Denied who was involved in a juvenile pissing contest with Springer at ATS. After Trailorgirl was fired as a mod (for being her pleasant self)- this AD character took her place in the pantheon. He convinced Dube that Springer was a lying piece of shit and the ATS truther thread was born. Arbitrary bannings and a general disregard for any semblance of fairness ensued and persists to this day. I was banned, Trailorgirl Shawanna was banned, Springer was banned, Bill was banned, ultimately Corlton and John Lear were banned- it was a regular beer hall putsch. Only the most loyal, i.e. deceitful, gauleiters survived. And so it remains...
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 02:37 PM
What was the purpose of Springer starting it to begin with? Thats what I don't get
Jackinthebox
07-15-2009, 02:48 PM
[quote="boycotteverything"]lest this get buried under a pile of trivia-
[quote]
Cheers
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 02:56 PM
What was the purpose of Springer starting it to begin with? Thats what I don't getNot 'starting,' rather- enabling. He saw these guys as a tool to justify Bill's famous- "Bang bang, out go the lights" on the Serpo thread at ATS. They were all either manipulated or controlled by the US IC. And now they've all been bought. They are agents. It's the body-snatcher syndrome. Reconsider the 'Banned by the Borg' and associated threads. But check your paranoia at the door.
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 03:13 PM
and i'll add this- it's all about bringing br..er bl..e to the waterboard.
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 03:35 PM
Hrm...
So I take it you're on the page that SERPO was real? and all the drama was the result of people trying to cover it up?
What you're saying makes a lot of sense... but I really doubt the USIC has anything to do with it...
I'm still thinking that it was perpetrated by ATS staff... either with, or without Bill's knowledge... Centris was key... he played both sides for a while...
I don't think SERPO was real...
But, putting the "RU3" up to the task of deflection... could very well work out convieniently for S.O. and Springer...
This could actually be another thread if we wanted it to be lol
Taking a military lawnmower on a space trip to another planet set off a bit of an alarm for me.
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 03:55 PM
Taking a military lawnmower on a space trip to another planet set off a bit of an alarm for me.
That... and Occam's Razor lol
boycotteverything
07-15-2009, 08:19 PM
So I take it you're on the page that SERPO was real? How did you get that from what I've posted? Although in one sense it certainly was real. It was the high-strange virus in the UFO petri dish- placed there by USG intelligence operatives.
pack3tg0st
07-15-2009, 08:26 PM
just seemed like it because you brought up USIC... (which I took to mean U.S. Intelligence Community...)
But anyway, I should start a thread on this instead of further derailing this one...
ATS have updated their approach to member content, and i'd like to take this opportunity to reply to a couple of Bill's points, without animosity or malice, for a change. :)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread483921/pg1
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/mojo4sale/linkbanner.jpg
Our New Approach To Plagiarized ATS Member Content
We've recently been through a few rounds of rather frustrating responses from website admins after encountering ATS member posts being used on other sites without proper attribution -- the method to provide attribution is clearly specified on every post of ATS.
The reactions have ranged from a startling degree of vindictive anger to threats of counter legal action, and everything imaginable in-between. Presumably, the reactions stem from some type of assumption that we (ATS management) are terrible people who believe we own the content of our contributing members. Far from it, we're idealists who care deeply about the effort each of our members put into their posts, and have an overriding desire to see credit given where credit is due.
In short, we're refining our notification policy, and only doing so when the ATS member who authored a plagiarized post authorizes us to do so.[/b]
Believe it or not Bill but we also think that credit is due to the OP's of threads and articles and that links should be provided.
There are many instances of us asking or teaching newer members how to quote correctly and provide proper attribution, however since our site is "persona non grata" and linking in any form either privately or publically to our site is not allowed at ATS then you are obviously going to receive the same negative response from our membership.
It's human nature, and a perfectly reasonable stance in the face of reciprocal hostility.
Your stance that our site contains lies and mistruths about yourself and the other ownersn of ATS doesn't float, there are numerous threads on your own site that contain lies about all sorts of public figures, websites and agencies, you don't seem to have a problem with this.
You don't seem to have a very good grasp on the nature of Conspiracy Theory and Theorists.
Misinterpretation of Attribution Requirements
Clearly, there is a misunderstanding of our intent which apparently has been at the root of a rather deep rift between us (ATS) and a very-short of list other sites. Our intent is not to create animosity. Our core ideals have always been focused on collaborative learning through cooperation and shared knowledge... this has been, and continues to be, the driving force behind our efforts to grow ATS. And, in our eyes, giving credit to the author and source of important or interesting information is a vitally important aspect of the collaborative process.
In fact, we feel so strongly about this that we don't allow entire pieces of content to be lifter from other sites to use on ATS, we insist on snippets & link-backs, and we've banned people found to be representing the content of others as their own.
I agree wholeheartedly, but it is a two way street. You cannot expect us to comply with your requests when you refuse and have done so since day one of this site to treat us with any respect whatsoever. Until such time as you understand this there will continue to be animosity between ATS and other CT forums.
The only site that we do not actively enforce linking too is yours, because you do not allow linking to us, simple.
Revising Our Approach
In the vast majority of instances where ATS member content is used elsewhere online, those doing so have provided proper attribution. However, oddly enough, the only sites/admins that have responded with intense animosity and anger are other "conspiracy theory" or "alternative topics" sites, our online peers... the very sites which should be on the same collaborative page as us. Since the intense animosity in this sub-set of sites is counterproductive, we're modifying our approach. Our new policies regarding potentially plagiarized ATS member content online will be:
Yes, we should all be on the same page, how do you expect to achieve this after years of treating other smaller sites like fleas on the big dog.
Interesting point i made to crakeur a while back (i think it was crakeur).
We can go for months here without any angst towards you or your site apart from a few humorous remarks occasionally, and then of a sudden some drama will start at your site and we'll receive an influx of ATS refugee's like when you shut down your fighters, or you'll instigate communication through DMCA notices to us and GLP or you'll threaten RealityUncovered with legal action and then your surprised when members of this and other sites react to you with hostility, surely your not that oblivious to human nature?
However, it's our sincere hope that this refinement of our policy and clearly defined collaborative intent inspires these other sites to finally adopt the spirit of cooperation and give credit (and link-backs) to our members when using their content.
We will not cooperate with links to your site because you do not allow links to our site, simple as that, we will however accord proper attribution to the author of the content.
When you allow our site to be linked on ATS we will allow linking to your site.
Because of your dislike of Amkon from the very first days of it's creation there has been NO cooperation from you or us, have we been belligerent and stubborn, yes we have, whether you believe it to be warranted or not is moot, because from those very first days we have been "persona non grata".
What did you expect?
Thats right you didn't expect us to last longer than a month or two. ;)
WE have no problem with allowing AND enforcing correct attribution and internet "manners", as long as the playing field is level.
Frustration and Being a Good Internet Citizen
Proper link-backs to the sources of content we use online has been a core value of the Internet culture since hyper-text links were first introduced. It's unfortunate, and incredibly frustrating, that this core principal is seeing erosion such that people either don't care, are malicious, or seek to misrepresent their own talent.
We will provide proper attribution to authors of content posted on this site, however, again, we will not provide a link to the material until that right is reciprocal.
Finally.
The attitude of members of this and other sites that are hostile towards ATS is inextricably linked to their experience of your site, it has nothing to do with threads exploring whether you, other owners, your staff or members are Disinfo agents, hoax perpetrators, slick businessmen, aliens, agents of the NWO or anything else. These are "conspiracy theory's", the staple of yours and every other conspiracy forum on the internet. Whether you like it or not, we are all about free speech and the unfettered exchange of idea's and theories, even if some of these theory's are blatantly wrong, the evidence will ensure that any conclusions reached can be clearly seen by the reader if they wish to see it.
Animosity and hostility is a two way street, as is respect and cooperation, both are earnt, if you wish to have the respect and cooperation of the "conspiracy community" you also need to understand that as the "big boys" you also have some responsibility in this regard.
We will not cooperate with links to your site because you do not allow links to our site
He overlooks this major point and wonders why his place is treated 'so poorly' linkwise. It's obvious his words are hollow as he cannot be unaware of that fact. He would be one who built the filter since he is Mr. InformationTroll over there.
boycotteverything
07-20-2009, 02:37 PM
You cannot expect us to comply with your requests when you refuse and have done so since day one of this site to treat us with any respect whatsoever. Until such time as you understand this there will continue to be animosity between ATS and other CT forums.What's so hard to understand about that simple statement? We've been accused of being and supporting purveyors of pornography and advocates of drug use as justification for the link ban. ATS knows full well that these accusations are false and yet still persists in the banning. Sorry- but Bill is an abject, hypocritical asshole.
Lexion
07-20-2009, 02:51 PM
We've been accused of being and supporting purveyors of pornography
Well............
Giggity,
Lex
Cogburn
07-20-2009, 06:19 PM
I guess climbing up on that moral high horse isn't such a chore when it's only a foot tall.
Perhaps if Bill realizes he's trying to make a corporate venture out of grass roots opinion, he'll come to a similar realization that his market share has peaked.
Perhaps some day, for all his efforts, ATS will outpace SomethingAwful.com in Alexa rankings.
No dice yet, eh Bill?
I guess climbing up on that moral high horse isn't such a chore when it's only a foot tall.
Quite generous with your measurements.
Guess his new plan is to solicit his members in his cause by having them report the postings of their own posts found on other sites. Get the crowd worked up into a frenzy.
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