Photographers fear they are target of new terror law

[Snow Crash]

Old article, but considering some recent threads, its worth bringing back intot eh spotlight. Thanks to devilwasp for the linkage to this most worrying article.


Taking photographs of police officers could be deemed a criminal offence under anti-terrorism legislation that comes into force next week. Campaigners against section 76 of the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008, which becomes law on Monday, said it would leave professional photographers open to fines and arrest.

The National Union of Journalists and the British Press Photographers' Association said the law would extend powers that are already being used to harass photographers and would threaten press freedom. Hundreds are due to converge on Scotland Yard on Monday in a mass picture-taking event organised by the NUJ.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/feb/12/photographers-anti-terror-laws

Related threads:

G20 police threaten photographers with arrest
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7317&p=108426#p108426 (http://www.amkon.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7317&p=108426#p108426)

[Snow Crash]

s]XJBQG0Wh-S0&feature=relateds]


So I have no idea why they've brought this law in... other than the fact that Jacqui Smith is just a profoundly undemocratic, dictatorial, statist pig

LMFAO.

[WarlordZeroOne]

Counter Terrorism my arse, since the 9-11 situation we have become prisoners of our own system Democracy,it will get worse no question about it,the big problem is Who Re- Draws the LINE, because its almost vanished into thin air.

[Cogburn]

Old article, but considering some recent threads, its worth bringing back intot eh spotlight. Thanks to devilwasp for the linkage to this most worrying article.


Taking photographs of police officers could be deemed a criminal offence under anti-terrorism legislation that comes into force next week. Campaigners against section 76 of the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008, which becomes law on Monday, said it would leave professional photographers open to fines and arrest.

The National Union of Journalists and the British Press Photographers' Association said the law would extend powers that are already being used to harass photographers and would threaten press freedom. Hundreds are due to converge on Scotland Yard on Monday in a mass picture-taking event organised by the NUJ.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/feb/12/photographers-anti-terror-laws

Related threads:

G20 police threaten photographers with arrest
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7317&p=108426#p108426
Ok... first off .... these are YOUR topics that you're commenting on. You've posted like 4 of them on the G20 and errant cops in the past 12 hours.

Second, it's fucking England, dude. They have a queen. Their legal system is not the same as ours, why do you have the expectation of similar results? Shit like the video below would not be tolerated in the United States. This law in your OP is designed to stop videos like this as opposed to forcing the police to actually act like human beings.
6]p6V3oUoffCE6]
Is the problem British police or the British population for being so passive for so long as to allow things to progress so far?

Furthermore, police have displayed various levels of corruption since the institution was first created. From where does such pearl-clutching dismay at modern corruption come from? Wouldn't it be a greater unrealistic expectation to assume it would all disappear overnight?

It's your expectations that are unrealistic, not the behavior of police.

[apeci]

Not tolerated in the US? It must be comfy under that rock.

[Snow Crash]

Ok... first off .... these are YOUR topics that you're commenting on. You've posted like 4 of them on the G20 and errant cops in the past 12 hours.

Second, it's fucking England, dude. They have a queen. Their legal system is not the same as ours, why do you have the expectation of similar results?

Oh I dunno why I am interested in what happens in the UK. Maybe IIS BECAUSE I LIVE THERE. I must apologise profusely for giving a fuck about what happens here. I must remember how Amerocentric some people are on this board. My bad entirely. There is clearly no world outside your borders.

And what the FUCK does having a Queen mean when it comes to the behaviour of Police? Because Brits still have a Royal Family, that means we should shut the fuck up and allow ourselves to be stamped on by facist cunts like these? You're chatting shit.


Shit like the video below would not be tolerated in the United States.

ROFL... You don't seriously believe that, right?


This law in your OP is designed to stop videos like this as opposed to forcing the police to actually act like human beings.

WELL DUH.


Is the problem British police or the British population for being so passive for so long as to allow things to progress so far?

Oh it is definately a case of them being allowed to get this bad by a passive population that doesnt make enough noise when they step out of line. And by spreading information on the shit they do, maybe, just maybe, more Brits will start see whats going on, and to add their voices to the growing disquiet.

Once again, I must apologise for actually passing on info about this stuff, rather than keeping quiet about it.


It's your expectations that are unrealistic, not the behavior of police.

Yes, you're right. Heaven forbid we should expect the police to be the good guys for a change. So they are bad guys then. So what should happen to bad guys? You tell me Cog, seeing as you have all the fucking answers and are clearly on an insightful trip/the rag right now.

[Cogburn]

Nah... SC, you're right.

The fact that you're facing down 800 year old corrupt institutions has nothing to do with your complaints. A Queen and a parliamentary system of government gives you full redress of grievances. Obviously that's the case since police brutality is punished, right?

You're right, I don't live under a system of government that was designed to retain power via hereditary lines. Please explain to my meager colonial brain how you weren't sold a bill of goods in 1215 and have been basically satisfied with it for 800 years.

When it comes to freedom and the way to maintain it you Brits don't have a fucking clue. It's a foreign language to you which is not surprising because you were the oppressors of the world not too long ago.

What, exactly, is your expectation for anything different? The fact you speak English?

England isn't a free country and never has been. The fact that you keep confusing it with the United States is hardly our problem.

[century]

vote:David Icke for king

[Lexion]

vote:David Icke for king

I just puked a little bit.

Nauseated,
Lex

[Alessandra]

vote:David Icke for king

fuck

that

shit.

(read: hell no!)

[century]

vote:David Icke for king

I just puked a little bit.

Nauseated,
Lex



my job here is done :projectile:

[century]

:lol:

King Icke, that has a fucked ring to it no?

[Alessandra]

:lol:

King Icke, that has a fucked ring to it no?


I'd be killed, on grounds of 'being related to reptilians'.

Fuck that man, seriously.

[century]

sorry guys

strayed a little off course

[Snow Crash]

When it comes to freedom and the way to maintain it you Brits don't have a fucking clue. It's a foreign language to you which is not surprising because you were the oppressors of the world not too long ago.

Well then by all means, Thomas Jefferson, please educate us. You tell us what freedom is, and let us learn this alien language, you arrogant fucking prick.

And I marvel that you should bring Pax Britannia up, when Pax Americana is still going strong. You ask someone without a Stars n Stripes duct taped to their right hand who is doing the most oppressing these days, you may not like the answer you get. Truth hurts. And thats just foreign policy: your corporate-facist bank owned government treats its citizens like fucking shit, and if you take the rose tinted specs off, you should be able to see that.

Glass houses, stones, etc.


What, exactly, is your expectation for anything different? The fact you speak English?

England isn't a free country and never has been. The fact that you keep confusing it with the United States is hardly our problem.

Ah, so the US is the only country that is allowed to aspire to be free and democratic eh? Such fucking arrogance. Again, in case you haven't noticed, the US is hardly a beacon of light either, so you can take your Land of the Free shit and stick it up your arse. You don't hold a monopoly on desiring to live without chains.

"It's just a goddamned piece of paper," remember.

And please, I know this may damage the ego, but try very hard not to assume everyone wants to to be the United States. The US has a lot to admire, but making out like everyone wants to be like the US is what makes the US a lot of enemies round the world.

[WarlordZeroOne]

Snow Crash,you Right in everything you have said,you know how much i like the yanks,and when it comes down to our friends on AmKon saying vile crap about the U.K. well thats too much,when all said and done our Queen is just the Head of State, No Powers anymore,Just protocol,and a rubber stamp,and when our AmKon Friends start calling the Kettle Black,well thats fucking Rich for the states,and this is an argument to Total Disaster,between friends,chat and opinion 100% YES,also the police in the STATES are worse than the Brits,ask Rodney King poor fellow,glad that wsa caught on vid,i am not taking sides,ask snow,we have been head to head,and at the end of the day its all chat and we are all Buddies.

[Cogburn]

Nah... we don't have a monopoly of the desire to live without chains... we just have the monopoly of actually making it work.

If you see Americans in chains it's because they chose to wear them. The fact that most Americans don't understand that simple fact makes them easier to control. No skin off my back, I've never worn a yoke.

You don't want to be the US and that's fine, you shouldn't... you should want to be a human being with the same rights and benefits afforded to all human beings by no greater right than the simple fact of their existence.

In one breath you condemn Pax Americana and in the next opine on how the rest of the world has aspirations to be similar.

Thank you for your post. You have illustrated my point more clearly than I possibly could have.

You have no appreciation or understanding of the true nature of liberty and freedom... it always seems to be something that someone else has and never anything you could attain for yourself.

That's why your country is a police state and I can still carry a firearm in the open, in a public space.

How's your knife crime?

[Snow Crash]

Nah... we don't have a monopoly of the desire to live without chains... we just have the monopoly of actually making it work.

Oh clearly.


No skin off my back, I've never worn a yoke.

Yet just because someone was born outside of the US means they automatically do? Wow.


You don't want to be the US and that's fine, you shouldn't... you should want to be a human being with the same rights and benefits afforded to all human beings by no greater right than the simple fact of their existence.

I am glad we can at least agree on one thing here.


In one breath you condemn Pax Americana and in the next opine on how the rest of the world has aspirations to be similar.

Er... You may want to re-read my post. Slowly this time.


You have no appreciation or understanding of the true nature of liberty and freedom... it always seems to be something that someone else has and never anything you could attain for yourself.

Still waiting for the education to begin...


That's why your country is a police state and I can still carry a firearm in the open, in a public space.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...... You're one of those uberpatriot NRA fanbois? Do you define liberty on being able to run around the streets with a gun? So by that fucking standard then, Mogadishu is looking like the freeist place on earth.

Or maybe not. Maybe my yoke wearing, chain loving mind isn't understanding that alien language you are talking about. Please teach us.


How's your knife crime?

Pretty much as it always has been, with a slight rise due in part to increased, sensationalised media coverage, and kneejerk reactions by middle class fuckwits who have no clue, and politicos clamouring for votes.

Now I could ask how gun crime is going on over in the States, and whether or not someone has shot up a school lately, but I'm not going to stoop to that fucking level.

[WarlordZeroOne]

Well good for you Cog,that Gun of yours needs sticking up in the place where monkeys put the nuts,and yes we have a knife problem,but its better than going into some colledge with an automatic weapon and blowing a dozen people away,just because some asshole gets pissed off. Oh and how tall does your small pissstol make :lol: you feel,need any viagra.lol

[torbjon]

as fucked up as 'merica is, more people seem to want to come and live here than they seem to want to go and live in the UK...


As of 2006, the United States accepts more legal immigrants as permanent residents than any other country in the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States


Today, the United States accepts more legal immigrants as permanent residents than the rest of the world combined.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-10/17/content_5215770.htm

This includes UK citizens... apparently on the order of four to one (four UK citizens flee to 'merica for every one 'merican fleeing to the UK)

Yes, 'merica is fucked up... and it's our own unique brand of fucked upedness that draws in people from all over the planet by the millions...

Kinda like a decent bottle of whiskey and a good pack of cigarettes... bad for your health but tons o' fun for everyone.

I'm going to Disneyland.

[Snow Crash]

I'm not getting into a dick measuring contest, Warlord. I just resent the assertion that every citizen of every country bar the US is automatically slaves, and we can never aspire to be beyond that.

Fuck that. And fuck anyone that believes that

That talk is not only devisive, and helps with the System's divide and conquer shit, but the more people see that kind of talk, the more they think its what Americans think. I know enough brethrens from other side of the pond to know that is not the case.

[Cogburn]

Stoop? It's a valid question. A better comparison would be the ratio of yearly rate of increase between knife and gun crime between both countries. Any time an object is made illegal you create criminals of those who continue to possess them. More laws = more crime = more criminals. You Brits invented that and our society is currently infected with it. You go dig up those stats and we'll keep talking on this point. Then we'll ask the real question... is the problem the objects or is the problem to society that encourages their use in a destructive, harmful manner?

Uberpatriot NRA fanboi? No... Just an American exercising the rights afford to them within the founding documents of our country. Your statements do little more than illustrate your continued ignorance of how a free society operates. You immediately assume that because certain organizations have dedicated themselves to the preservation and protection of those rights that the exercise of those rights is a de facto approval of such organizations.

You seem to have a firm grasp of the philosophies regarding the 2nd Amendment. Charlton Heston told you that you did. Who is it that is really manipulated by stereotyped media images?

Kindly explain the route of redress of grievance against a police officer that committed a crime in your country.

If a cop (or anyone really but we'll deal with cops) fucks up on video here, he goes on unpaid leave nearly immediately and an investigation begins. The individual who was wronged has both a criminal and civil route by which they may be made whole and one is encouraged to take advantage of both. Should local county courts fail to provide satisfaction, there are no less than four greater courts to which my case may be appealed. I am permitted to construct my own court of public opinion. There is not one single law or statute in any city, county or state preventing me from ruining the lives of those who have wronged me as they have ruined mine. If next you're going to cry about how imperfect the universe is and that mean, stupid, evil people still attain positions of authority, then so be it. The longer you sit on your ass instead of reaching for that power and authority yourself, you're part of the problem.

Such scenarios have been played out time and time again across this country, in all kinds of racially and morally diverse counties and states. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the exception in our day and age is a cop that gets away with it.

This is like discussing Christianity with a believer that hasn't left the Church: perspective is impossible because you are still within the intellectual confines of the system being discussed.

You can continue to wave your flag if you wish, but the fact of the matter is that the English system of government is the ultimate mindfuck. Shit... France is more libertarian than England. They voted their own socialism as opposed to having it rammed down their throats by remnants of medieval political institutions.

The one thing that France and the United States share in common was getting rid of that nonsense 200 years ago.

You still live with it every single day.

[Snow Crash]

Uberpatriot NRA fanboi? No... Just an American exercising the rights afford to them within the founding documents of our country. Your statements do little more than illustrate your continued ignorance of how a free society operates.

So address this ignorance, please. The suspense is killing me.


You immediately assume that because certain organizations have dedicated themselves to the preservation and protection of those rights that the exercise of those rights is a de facto approval of such organizations.

My bad entirely. You came across as one of those flag waving gun nut fucktards who equates bullets to 'Patriotism'.


Charlton Heston told you that you did.

Was always more of a Clint Eastwood fan, myself...


Who is it that is really manipulated by stereotyped media images?

Well clearly you are, considering some of the staggeringly ignorant shit you're spouting here.


Kindly explain the route of redress of grievance against a police officer that committed a crime in your country.

IPCC. By police. For the police.


This is like discussing Christianity with a believer that hasn't left the Church: perspective is impossible because you are still within the intellectual confines of the system being discussed.

LOL. Yeah, clearly I am. How well you know me. And you bleed red white and blue right?


You can continue to wave your flag if you wish

Er, you were the one who came in and started berating me for giving a shit about whats going on in my country. You wanted to start a dick measuring tournament. If you hate the English, thats your petty issue, not ours.


but the fact of the matter is that the English system of government is the ultimate mindfuck.

Wow... hey, you know, I never realised that! How very clever you are Cogburn.

Holy SHIT, what a fucking revelation!

I am so glad you are taking the time to STATE THE FUCKING OBVIOUS.


You still live with it every single day.

Oh indeed, and according to you, I should be happy with that lot. Idiot.

[Cogburn]

Why is it that you made the mistake of automatically assuming I was one of those patriot nutballs by my description? Couldn't possibly be the stereotypes you've been spoon fed from birth by your media, could it?

You agree your government is a mindfuck of medieval privilege and democratic slight of hand, and yet you maintain that you have the same freedom as I do.

You admit you have no redress against corrupt police as we do, yet you maintain that you have the same freedom as I do.

I bleed red blood, just like you. There's no blue in it, not a drop. I am a regular human being that in different times would have been enslaved or killed as an abomination. However, by little more than the grace of birth and the foresight of my family that came to this country, I live in a place and time where I live without such worries or fears. I appreciate the imperfections within systems that are created with the best of intentions, but are administered by imperfect humans.

I live in a place where the system is me. You don't and I'm sorry that makes you sad. You're welcome to come here and join us.

[Snow Crash]

Why is it that you made the mistake of automatically assuming I was one of those patriot nutballs by my description? Couldn't possibly be the stereotypes you've been spoon fed from birth by your media, could it?

Yes, I must confess, every one of the three hundred million or so Americans fits nicely into a bracket pre-defined by the EVIL, enslaved (and loving it) British and their Media. You have discovered our little secret. Thats how we chain wearing people think. Shit, I always thought of y'all as statistics, actually....


You agree your government is a mindfuck of medieval privilege and democratic slight of hand, and yet you maintain that you have the same freedom as I do.

Please show where I said that. My memory is SO patchy these days.


You admit you have no redress against corrupt police as we do, yet you maintain that you have the same freedom as I do.

Please show where I said that. My memory is SO patchy these days.


I bleed red blood, just like you. There's no blue in it, not a drop.

Twisty twisty.


I am a regular human being that in different times would have been enslaved or killed as an abomination. However, by little more than the grace of birth and the foresight of my family that came to this country, I live in a place and time where I live without such worries or fears.

And why can't people not born in the US desire to live as such? Are we not good enough? You talk a lot of shit about 'regular human', but you seem to skirt that question.


You're welcome to come here and join us.

Cool. Can I carry a Javelin missle system in the street?

[Cogburn]

Yes, I must confess, every one of the three hundred million or so Americans fits nicely into a bracket pre-defined by the EVIL, enslaved (and loving it) British and their Media. You have discovered our little secret. Thats how we chain wearing people think. Shit, I always thought of y'all as statistics, actually....Seems so. Thanks for being honest about your own blind ignorance. It makes putting the rest of your comments into context much easier.


Please show where I said that. My memory is SO patchy these days.
That's why we post in a forum. Feel free to review your own posts.


And why can't people not born in the US desire to live as such? Are we not good enough? You talk a lot of shit about 'regular human', but you seem to skirt that question.No skirting at all. Everyone deserves to live in freedom. You just so happen to live in a place where that isn't possible.

What are you doing to change that?


Cool. Can I carry a Javelin missle system in the street?
If you know where to buy one, lemme know. We'll find out.

[Snow Crash]

Seems so. Thanks for being honest about your own blind ignorance. It makes putting the rest of your comments into context much easier.

[offsite:2nedor1y]sar-casm??/?s?rkæz?m/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sahr-kaz-uhm]

–noun 1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.[/offsite:2nedor1y]

Courtesy of the good people at http://dictionary.reference.com/


[quote:2nedor1y]Please show where I said that. My memory is SO patchy these days.
That's why we post in a forum. Feel free to review your own posts.[/quote:2nedor1y]

Hah... what a cop out. Can't find what you claimed?


You just so happen to live in a place where that isn't possible.

Ah well, if its never gonna be different, then why bother complaining when the system abuses us. But we Brits love our chains though, so its cool.

And btw, that's sarcasm also.


What are you doing to change that?

Whatever I can, without resorting to idiotic, short sighted tactics, or nationalist, divisive chest beating.

[Cogburn]

Whatever I can, without resorting to idiotic, short sighted tactics, or nationalist, divisive chest beating.

Apparently that amounts to whining on the internet about how the IPCC has the cards stacked against you.

Are you going to become a cop? Work towards passing the Bar? Run for office?

Nah, it's much easier to posture online than it is to actually do something real, with real risks and real consequences and real results.

You might actually get the world you want to live in. Scary shit. Then what to complain about?

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/21b45o13x25c54o34d45e/disneyland-sign-generatorphp.jpg

[Snow Crash]

Apparently that amounts to whining on the internet about how the IPCC has the cards stacked against you.

Apparently you do a lot of assumption based on some posts on a forum, and use it in a debate to make derisory remarks.


Are you going to become a cop? Work towards passing the Bar? Run for office?

Science actually. I want to make a proper impact, not do shit that fuels the systems bullshit.


Nah, it's much easier to posture online than it is to actually do something real, with real risks and real consequences and real results.

Oh look, more assumptions made to help in making of derisory comments.


You might actually get the world you want to live in. Scary shit.

You have no idea. I think it would be more scary for you though, somehow. Just a hunch...


Then what to complain about?

LOL... yeah, we're all about the complaining. We're not wanting anything constructive. We don't do freedom, so we mustn't work too hard. Let's keep it to complaining.

More sarcasm btw

[ApolloRising]

Everyone deserves to live in freedom. You just so happen to live in a place where that isn't possible.

What are you doing to change that?


One thing he's doing is drawing attention to it. You don't end a police state by joining the police force, as you suggested earlier... Can you see how that might not work out?

Hey, and do you know what happens when one person starts a revolution without any support or public understanding of the issues being fought for? Well, I don't know exactly what happens, because people don't start revolutions that way, they don't change countries and systems on their own (because that's retarded) but I imagine if they did they'd look a lot like highschool massacres. The UK only has second hand experience of that, it's pretty hard to kill a great many people in a short space of time with a knife, in comparision to with an automatic weapon.

Speaking of which, you're so very free because you're allowed to own a handgun, or a rifle... meanwhile your SWAT teams have MP5s and your street gangs have AKs... so how does that work exactly? It's still not a level playing field exactly is it?

Anyway, back to the original point. Changing the situation, the issue your brought up. Well, one thing you can do to contribute to change is discuss an issue intelligently in an open public forum. I'm sorry to see that boat has sailed for you.

Edit: Fix quote box.

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

Wait...did you say this is an open public forum?!

*pulls up pants*

Oh shit!

Hold that boat!

[Snow Crash]

Wait...did you say this is an open public forum?!

*pulls up pants*

Oh shit!

Hold that boat!

Are you trying to cut in on Lex's Lewdness Franchise? LOL

[Cogburn]

Everyone deserves to live in freedom. You just so happen to live in a place where that isn't possible.

What are you doing to change that?


One thing he's doing is drawing attention to it. You don't end a police state by joining the police force, as you suggested earlier... Can you see how that might not work out?

Hey, and do you know what happens when one person starts a revolution without any support or public understanding of the issues being fought for? Well, I don't know exactly what happens, because people don't start revolutions that way, they don't change countries and systems on their own (because that's retarded) but I imagine if they did they'd look a lot like highschool massacres. The UK only has second hand experience of that, it's pretty hard to kill a great many people in a short space of time with a knife, in comparision to with an automatic weapon.

Speaking of which, you're so very free because you're allowed to own a handgun, or a rifle... meanwhile your SWAT teams have MP5s and your street gangs have AKs... so how does that work exactly? It's still not a level playing field exactly is it?

Anyway, back to the original point. Changing the situation, the issue your brought up. Well, one thing you can do to contribute to change is discuss an issue intelligently in an open public forum. I'm sorry to see that boat has sailed for you.

Edit: Fix quote box.
Drawing attention to it? On an internet forum? What's next? YouTube videos? Puh-leeze. One changes institutions by joining institutions, short of armed rebellion. Kindly indicate a single time it has happened otherwise. If you think that discussing an issue on the internet brings about change you're either a shut-in or a fool or both. Actions bring about change. It's reminiscent of Chamberlain before meeting with Hitler. Is it a British thing?

As to what happens to revolutions without support... go Google "Guy Fawkes". I'm sure the there's some Irish that could tell you a thing or two regarding the British knowledge of automatic weapons.

Everyone loves to bring up school shootings, as if crazy people would kill less people if they didn't have guns. Utterly ridiculous. Crazy people will kill as many people as they want and will find the best means to do that. Having mommy put guns up on the high shelf won't accomplish much more than incentivize creative criminals.

I don't plan on taking on the police or SWAT teams... what the fuck are you smoking? The police are great for finding bad buys after they do their dirty deeds, but their role isn't to protect my property or my family, that's my job. I own a firearm so I don't become a victim in my own neighborhood to the random ignorant, stupid person that the universe sometimes creates. But then again every one in my family studies a martial art and I also own a safe. It took nearly 10 years to where I don't feel I need to be concerned about the odd wacko.

Jesus I'm not sure what's worse... your views of society or your potential solutions.

[Snow Crash]

If you think that discussing an issue on the internet brings about change you're either a shut-in or a fool or both.

Please show where Apollo said he felt that. More assumption, Vicar?


Actions bring about change. It's reminiscent of Chamberlain before meeting with Hitler. Is it a British thing?

Wow. How original. Cos I forgot, yknow, the USA never made a foreign policy error in its history.

Whats that? Iraq? Vietnam? Laos? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Palestine/Israel? Russia? Georgia? Somalia? Colombia? Nicaragua? Honduras? Panama? Bolivia?


I'm sure the there's some Irish that could tell you a thing or two regarding the British knowledge of automatic weapons.

Yeah, and a lot of Brits, especially Ulstermen, know about Republicans' bombs and machine guns. And the funding passed on by stupid disphit Americans who thought they were doing their own little slice of revolutionary action in far off lands from the comfort of their nice, safe living rooms. Don't be a prick all your life, Cog.


Everyone loves to bring up school shootings, as if crazy people would kill less people if they didn't have guns. Utterly ridiculous. Crazy people will kill as many people as they want and will find the best means to do that.

So maybe don't bring up knife crime then if you don't want the dirty laundry of the US society aired in public.

You don't like it, don't start shit in the first place. It's not that hard to understand.

[ApolloRising]

As to what happens to revolutions without support... go Google "Guy Fawkes".

Right...so Guy Fawkes' revolution didn't work out... because he didn't have support, I guess he didn't talk about it a whole lot, huh? Didn't communicate a great deal with anyone besides his co-conspirators? I suppose then it's vaguely ironic that he was sold out by one of the few people he did discuss his plans with.

So, just to recap. My point was thus; Having support for changing something large scale is essential. That you do this through raising awareness, discussion, etc, so on so forth... And your point is thus; Guy Fawkes attempted to overthrow government, (start a revolution) but did so without the support of others, he didn't raise awareness and so on... So, your point is my point? So, raising awarenes and discussion is important. OK, just so we're clear on that. Thanks.


Drawing attention to it? On an internet forum? What's next? YouTube videos? Puh-leeze.

And just so we're clear here, you don't think the use of the internet (greatest communications tool currently in existence) is a good device for discussion and raising awareness of issues such as this one? What're you smoking, man?

Yeah, I suppose making use of the most powerful and frequented communications network ever to raise awareness and promote discuss IS fairly ridiculous.


as if crazy people would kill less people if they didn't have guns.

And so, you're saying crazy people would kill as many people even without guns... So... I mean, I guess Hitler would've killed millions even without gas chambers?


I'm sure the there's some Irish that could tell you a thing or two regarding the British knowledge of automatic weapons.

Yes, I'm sure there are Irish folk that could tell me a thing or two (maybe even three things, possibly more) about the British and automatic weapons. But then, what's your point? I mean, that's entirely unrelated to anything I said... so. Hey, you know, I have some trees at the back of my garden. If we're going randomly off topic here, then lets go all the way!


It took nearly 10 years to where I don't feel I need to be concerned about the odd wacko.

I've always been fairly unconcerned, my experience is it's conceivable you can outrun a wacko with a knife, much harder to outrun a wacko with a gun/rifle/automatic weapon. Bullets are rather fast, dontcha know?


One changes institutions by joining institutions, short of armed rebellion. Kindly indicate a single time it has happened otherwise.

Well, I guess armed rebellion is out anyway, seeing as you only have a hand gun. And to recap, you suggest we deal with a police state by joining the police. Need I say more?

Kindly indicate... ok. Civil Rights movements; as far as I know Martin Luther King didn't help end oppression of black people by joining the KKK, or by armed rebellion. He probably should've joined though, because after all, the only way to change an institution is to join it.

If only more Jewish kids had joined the Hitler youth, imagine how much better that whole Nazi thing might've turned out...


Jesus I'm not sure what's worse... your views of society or your potential solutions.

Firstly, you needn't call me Jesus. Secondly, you don't know anything of my views on society, or my potential solutions to any of society's problems. What you know is that I understand the one hurdle to leap is raising awareness of said issues.

[Cogburn]

So much for that pissing contest you wanted to avoid. So let's have at, shall we?

Who created the Palestinian/Israel conflict? Britain. The land was called Canaan before you got involved.

Who created the Pakistan/India conflict? Britain. Ah, had to have that tea, though.

Viet Name? Laos? How about "French Indo-China". We were stupid enough to step into that shit hole after every one else in Europe got their asses handed to them and we got what we deserved.

Afghanistan? Let's give credit where credit is due... to the USSR.

Georgia? USSR.

Somalia? France.

I'll own up to South America. We totally fucked that place up.

Your command of world events seems to be limited to something between sophomoric and simply embarassing. You fail... Now for Apollo...

[Cogburn]

And just so we're clear here, you don't think the use of the internet (greatest communications tool currently in existence) is a good device for discussion and raising awareness of issues such as this one? What're you smoking, man?

Yeah, I suppose making use of the most powerful and frequented communications network ever to raise awareness and promote discuss IS fairly ridiculous.
You say the same thing a few times over so I'll just address it here.

Kindly explain how some fat ass American teen ager living in mom and dad's basement is an aid to the cause of those struggling against an oppressive police state in England?

Would that time not be better served trying to sway the folks that live next door and down the street?


And so, you're saying crazy people would kill as many people even without guns... So... I mean, I guess Hitler would've killed millions even without gas chambers? That's correct. Hitler started with guns and switched to gas because it was cheaper. A model of German efficiency. Read a history book.


Kindly indicate... ok. Civil Rights movements; as far as I know Martin Luther King didn't help end oppression of black people by joining the KKK, or by armed rebellion. He probably should've joined though, because after all, the only way to change an institution is to join it.

If only more Jewish kids had joined the Hitler youth, imagine how much better that whole Nazi thing might've turned out...Finally... a real point.

MLK did work within the system... in fact... they avoided the system, therefore it shut down. They turned the system against itself and it collapsed. Again, read a history book... this time concerning the Alabama bus boycott.

As to Jews joining the Hitler youth... no... certainly not. They wouldn't have been able to anyway so it's silly to even suggest it. In fact, my family left Austria in 1937 and emigrated to this country to escape the coming storm. I'm Jewish, you see. Had they stayed I wouldn't be alive.

When a wave is coming towards you, do you stand there and lament the fact that you cannot stop it or do you move out of the way?


Firstly, you needn't call me Jesus. Secondly, you don't know anything of my views on society, or my potential solutions to any of society's problems. What you know is that I understand the one hurdle to leap is raising awareness of said issues.
Perhaps, but this entire conversation is allegedly based upon false assumptions, is it not?

[Snow Crash]

So much for that pissing contest you wanted to avoid.

Merely countering your pissant, often illogical, skewed, rambling, poxy comments, my good man. You seem to be the one who wants to prove something.

Oh wait. Its not that... it's pride, isn't it? Expecting an easy ride were you?


Who created the Palestinian/Israel conflict? Britain.

And who gave the Israelis BILLIONS and supported and supplied the them with arms and technology to aid in their attacks on Palestinian civillians? Who loves them so much, they even let the fuckers assault a US Naval ship without so much as a "WTF?"?


Who created the Pakistan/India conflict? Britain.

And who were the fucking idiots who went and destabalized a NUCLEAR POWER by repeatedly violating its sovereignty, handing support to extremists?


Ah, had to have that tea, though.

The food's not bad either... wait, was that a stereotype there, Cog?


Viet Name? Laos? How about "French Indo-China". We were stupid enough to step into that shit hole after every one else in Europe got their asses handed to them and we got what we deserved.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so you HAVE made a foreign policy mistake in your history. So not quite so infallable huh? I thank you for your agreement.


Afghanistan? Let's give credit where credit is due... to the USSR.

Oh no doubt, the Soviets ruined that place. US intel agencies increasing opium production by three hundred percent and then flooding the world market with the dirty shit was a GOOD thing though, right?


Georgia?

Saakashvilli? US 'Military Advisors?' US weapons? Getting them to start firing rockets into civillian population centres? Threatening to drag them into Israel's tiff with Iran by letting them get their hands on a base there?


Somalia? France.

Cos of course, the US never got its fingers burnt there, did they. WTF was that Ridley Scott flick called again?


Your command of world events seems to be limited to something between sophomoric and simply embarassing. You fail... Now for Apollo...

LOL... meeeeeeeeeeooooooooowwwwww...

Sticks and stones, etc...

[Cogburn]

The only one making silly statements about the infallibility of US policy was you.

If you would look further back in the thread, you'd see that I appreciate imperfect institutions administered by imperfect humans.

I'm not sure who you're arguing with, but you're not arguing with me.

[Snow Crash]

The only one making silly statements about the infallibility of US policy was you.

Actually, this foreign policy shit started when you thought it would be clever to bring up Hitler and Chamberlain. I can fetch the quote, if you like.


If you would look further back in the thread, you'd see that I appreciate imperfect institutions administered by imperfect humans.

So, back to what this thread started out about then, if a cop abused your rights, smacked you in the chops etc. you'd appreciate it? I mean obviously, you'd complain, cos he hit you, but you would be cool, cos he/she is just an imperfect human?


I'm not sure who you're arguing with, but you're not arguing with me.

So why do you keep coming back for more?

[WarlordZeroOne]

We all need to get OFF this UK ------USA head beating contest,at the end of it all we have all made mistakes (Our Politicians)here we are trying to put right what they have caused,its all a road to nowhere when friends start chopping each others heads off,the UK has big problems the USA has bigger problems, and to INSULT each other in this way is Bad Crap,THERE are NO WINNERS in this argument Gentlemen,so it would be a good idea to call it a Mexican stand-off. and carry the AmKon flag in good spirits,and i don't mean the Stars and Stripes,the AmKon Flag. Maybe Jive Turkey and his staff Could create an AmKon Flag.

[Cogburn]

LOL you took the Chamberlain reference out of context. I said that it was "reminiscent"... you proceeded to go off on a tangent.

As you really don't have anything to argue with we're back to the first page of the thread again.

All that nonsense in the middle managed to prove is that you have a staggeringly underwhelming grasp of why the world is the way it is today.

[Snow Crash]

LOL you took the Chamberlain reference out of context. I said that it was "reminiscent"... you proceeded to go off on a tangent.

Are you still here? Thought you weren't arguing?

OMG...

YOU LIED!

And not even like Arnie in Commando, either. For shame.


As you really don't have anything to argue with we're back to the first page of the thread again.

Fresh tactics, Cog? Slinging a new brand of shit?


All that nonsense in the middle managed to prove is that you have a staggeringly underwhelming grasp of why the world is the way it is today.

Ahhh so it IS fresh tactics. Don't want to argue. CAN'T argue. So you'll just get right down to insults?

That has FAIL written all over it.

What you don't seem to get is that you came in and started throwing your weight around, and you got bitten back. I don't get what the fucking failure in thinking is here on your part. Did you expect that after going into a thread and starting a ruckus based off your own bigoted views of Britons, everything would be kosher?

Oh wait! I forgot! You didn't know I was a Brit did you? You thought I was American, hence you thought it would be ok to start talking shit.

Look before leap?

[WarlordZeroOne]

Cog, You deserve all the SHIT that gets put on your door step,and for me i am biting my Tongue,and it will benefit you Cog,you silly,silly Git.

[Cogburn]

Changing tactics? WTF? Am I storming the beaches whereas previously I was scheduled for a parachute drop?

Throwing my weight around? What fucking weight? Who said I was special here?

Who gives a fuck where you're from because it had little impact on my argument. You being from the UK only further goes to prove that ignorance knows no borders.

What a trip.

:lol:

WZO... don't hold back... step to if you think your kung fu is any better than these two knuckleheads.

[WarlordZeroOne]

Cog, its an argument that nobody can win so why keep going on about it,and i thought YOU where one of the Brainy ones on AmKon,are you trying to prove me wrong without any HELP,for fucksake LET IT GO MAN. :smokin:

[Cogburn]

Aw... is there nothing wrong with sharpening the ol' claws?

It gets so boring around here sometimes. :)

[WarlordZeroOne]

Hey Cog C'mon there are better ways to do that on here,going Head to Head over my country is better than yours Sucks, and its an argument for ASSHOLES,and i am shouting if you can't hear me,Do you have an Hidden agenda per chance Grommit? lol

[Cogburn]

I just field the balls as they are hit to me. Post something silly about aliens living in Cardiff and I'll be right there. :)

Well... Then again... it is Cardiff...

[WarlordZeroOne]

O.K thats cool Cog. :smokin:

[Snow Crash]

Seems you DO still want to argue.


Changing tactics? WTF? Am I storming the beaches whereas previously I was scheduled for a parachute drop?

Well actually, the freshness was listed, so you can check back for them. Overall though, I think a general tactical overview might show attempted Blitzkrieg, which settled down into trench warfare once it became apparent that early moves had failed.

And I see your response completely failed to answer my question. Maybe I was rather close to the mark there...


Throwing my weight around? What fucking weight? Who said I was special here?

You don't have to be special to start giving it the large, as you have so eloquently demonstrated in this thread, both with your ignorance laden, bigoted entrance, and your continued arguing.

You're doing this out of pride. You just don't have the balls to admit it. You got burnt, and you don't have the honour to back down gracefully. I, on the other hand, am doing this out of principle. Principle being, I refuse to take shit from people who broadside me with their own spectacular ignorance. As someone who is so hip to the whole "freedom" thing, I am sure you can appreciate that the concept of "standing up for yourself".

Ok, well, I'm not totally sure...

If I came into a thread that was talking about issues in the US, and started labelling all Americans all sorts of names, and passing comments on them in a wholly generalised manner, I would EXPECT to have my arse handed to me. And rightly fucking so.

You seem to think that you should not have to suffer that when you do likewise. Why is that? You know, over there in The Land of the Free, you may have the freedom to talk shit to people. But with freedom comes responsibility, and you're responsible for your comments, however much you try and wriggle out of it by selectively ignoring questions and comments put forth to you.

How was that Kung Fu?


Who gives a fuck where you're from because it had little impact on my argument.

Your thinking that people from the UK are not allowed to desire justice, freedom, and accountability from the police seems definately politically geographical in nature.

You lie again, it seems.


You being from the UK only further goes to prove that ignorance knows no borders.

Well, you know how it is. We're not permitted to think here, so we just have regurgitate stuff told to us by our Queen. She can do that you know... she picks a citizen, speaks into a mic, and gives us instructions. Thats how under manners we are. So please forgive any 'ignorance' you percieve, O Shining Beacon of Freedom and Worldliness.


What a trip.

We hope you enjoyed your flight.

[ApolloRising]

Kindly explain how some fat ass American teen ager living in mom and dad's basement is an aid to the cause of those struggling against an oppressive police state in England?

Would that time not be better served trying to sway the folks that live next door and down the street?

Kindly and with a smile: I wasn't aware this website was reserved for American Teenagers. Indeed, I wasn't aware it was reserved for fat american teenagers at that. I thought it was a website with a number of people from different countries, who naturally have different thoughts and things they can input. The Spanish Civil war wasn't just fought by the Spanish. But that's besides the point, I'm not suggesting a similiar situation could or would happen in the UK.

Now, how can it help. Well, I can talk to my friends and neighbors, and I have, I've discussed various issues, with various levels of success with various people locally and nationally, and indeed internationally. How? Well, sometimes in person, and sometimes with the internet.

Now, how can a fatass English teenager living in Mum and Dad's loft help with an issue like this? Well, he can read this and discuss it with his friends, neighbours, family, who then can do the same, and then can do the same, and so on, and so on. That's how it'll help.


Hitler started with guns and switched to gas because it was cheaper. A model of German efficiency. Read a history book.

And again you miss my point. Gas chambers were one example of a deadly device used, I could've used guns, I could've used the Atom Bomb. So, lets use Guns in Nazi Germany. If they didn't have them.... the same millions would've died? If they had bows and arrows...or just stones... if the best we could all do was throw stones at one another? If the V2 rocket was a really big stone fired from a catapult?

Besides which, you seem to make my own point (again - you do like making my points for me), they switched from guns to gas chambers because gas chambers are more efficient. Read: Kill more people in the long run, as they could kill more at a time and were less of a drain on resources.



MLK did work within the system... in fact... they avoided the system, therefore it shut down. They turned the system against itself and it collapsed. Again, read a history book... this time concerning the Alabama bus boycott.


What's wrong with this sentence: MLK did work within the system... in fact... they avoided the system, therefore it shut down. Er.... he did work within the system... he avoided it. Once more, he worked within the system, by entirely boycotting the system. OK, seriously, just read that over once more and lets see if we can't all play a game of spot the contradiction. The first levels easy, but next time it'll be harder... at least I hope, Cog.


As to Jews joining the Hitler youth... no... certainly not. They wouldn't have been able to anyway so it's silly to even suggest it.

Yes, it is silly. Exactly my point. It would've been retarded. It doesn't make sense. It does not make sense. Just to break it down. It's ridiculous. Just like becoming a member of the police to bring about the end of a police state.

Ok, but lets examine that idea anyway: So, the situation is there's a police state in operation. So, you join the police force in order to change the oppressive institution. Then what? You work your way up the ranks so that you might have greater influence. Well, the only place where you have greater enough influence to have massive enough impact to begin to change the regime is in the top spot. And guess what, there's only one of them, almost impossible to get there. But lets say you do, you manage to get there... Then what? Start revising the way you act, the things your police are allowed to do? Well, you're not free of political influence, so you still stand no chance. Not to mention the fact, the laws allowing you to do these things come from politicians not policemen, anyway. Being a cop won't stop a police state, not when the powers afforded the police come from politicans.

So what happens if you become a politican? Well, If you want to make change, you have to join one of the two major parties, and again work your way up their ranks. Tory or Labour, either way, it's irrelivant. Now, the second you start putting revolutionary ideas on the table, however sensible, what happens, your cabinet revolts, you lose all support. You still get nowhere, if you manage to get that far in the first place. Even if that doesn't happen, the businesses and elites who stand to lose from you coming to office then fund your opposition massively and you have even less chance of getting into office to make change. Then, lets say, by some miracle stroke of impossiblity having a day off, you get into office, without any of those things happening and start revising the way the current system runs...What happens? I figure it tends to look something like what happened to JFK, or MLK. Anyone who tries to really change anything seems to end up dead, or mute.

So just to sum up, your idea on how to change things....

No fucking chance.



When a wave is coming towards you, do you stand there and lament the fact that you cannot stop it or do you move out of the way?

How big's the wave?



Perhaps, but this entire conversation is allegedly based upon false assumptions, is it not?

Nah, not all of it. I've not made any, Snow's not made any. The only correct assumption you've made is that I am in fact Jesus, besides that you're way off on just about everything you've said and have demonstrated some serious naivity.

Edit: Also, SnowCrash, duely smited.

[torbjon]

England is a small island nation lacking in its ability to protect itself in the global arena. There was a time when the sun never set on the British Empire. That time is Over. Like it or not, the people of that former Empire are aware of this. They are Not stupid. They are aware that their nation is small and vulnerable. Nobody likes to feel small and defenseless. Being small and defenseless generates a feeling of Dependency. This is perhaps what Cog was referring to in his jibes about Freedom. In the event of all out global warfare, the people of England KNOW, in their hearts, that they will once again have to ASK some other, larger, nation (not necessarily the USA) for Help. On some level, that has GOT to stick in the craw of the average Englander. A few short generations ago that was not the case. England ruled the world and Owned the seas.... but not now. Now other nations rule the world and own the seas (and the skies, as well). England is incapable of defending its sovereignty. This inability to defend yourself, from domestic bad guys, from your own police, from foreign invaders, generates Fear. A fearful nation is not a 'free' nation. "They" have been trying for, what? eight years now, to turn America into a fearful nation. So far "they" aren't really succeeding... it takes a few generations for that type of Fear to become a national mindset. We are well underway to becoming a fearful dependent nation, but we ain't there yet... England has been there for a while now. It's nothing to be ashamed of. The real question, though, isn't "what are we now?" but rather "what can we Become?"

I'm sorry if the people of England are afraid to take pictures of cops and post them on the internet. The "law" has nothing to do with it. It's Fear. It's also against the "law" for Englanders to cultivate, distribute, and consume marijuana, but some do it despite the "law". Obviously, their "want" out weighs their "fear" in that regard. The same holds true for every other "law" on the book in every other nation of the world. Some peoples "wants" simply out weigh their "fears", and "laws" or other social ramifications be damned, they are going to satisfy their "wants"

This is the primary reason why empires fail. The peoples of the subdued nations "want" their "freedoms" MORE than they want to live an oppressed lifestyle.... in short, they would rather die than carry on with the status quo.

Bottom line is, responsible people govern themselves, protect themselves, take care of themselves. If individuals choose to give up that responsibility to a third party then they have no one to blame for the sorry state of affairs they may find themselves in but themselves.

My country (USA) is totally fucked up. No doubts about that. But it wasn't British Illuminati, Knights Templars, Freemasons, or Foreign Spies that got us into this boat; it was 300,000,000 U.S. citizens that did this to us (and the world) Who is to blame for the sorry state of affairs in England? Did we do that? The French? Aliens? Or did you do it to yourselves?

Snow, I love you man, but complaining about the 'police state' is pretty empty. There's more of YOU than THEM. When enough of you are willing to die for what you believe in, then you will prevail. Until such time, it's your own soggy diaper and no one is going to change it for you. Take a lesson from your own history. When enough primitive peoples with pointy sticks say enough is enough, and stand up against the 'superior' fire power of the 'police state', the shear number of pointy sticks, in the end, Wins.

4]2uHhBhGnvZU4]
4]3uGX0kGvSp04]
4]50Bp_M2D1Pk4]

You can try to blame the 'police state' for keeping you down, but currently the only person Physically stopping you from doing things is You. MAYBE "they" will kill you if you try to do something that you want... MAYBE they won't... you won't know unless you try though, right? Seriously, what, Exactly, is stopping you from walking around with a hidden camera, gathering images and data on law enforcement officers, and discreetly posting that data on the internet?? The only thing I see stopping you is Fear of Retribution.... and if that's the case, if ALL you can come up with is "I'm Afraid that They Might Hurt Me" then shut the fuck up and quit the saber rattling. Trying to insight others to do your battle for you is pretty chicken shit. Grow some balls and actually LEAD your people to the promised land.

[Cogburn]

What timing.....
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/02/article-1196941-05900DF7000005DC-677_468x636.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
[offsite:g48ny10z]Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour.

Britain has an even worse violence rate than South Africa (file picture)

The Tories said Labour had presided over a decade of spiralling violence.

In the decade following the party's election in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77 per cent to 1.158million - or more than two every minute.

The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:

The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.
But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.

In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.

The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.

Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: 'This is a damning indictment of this government's comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.[/offsite:g48ny10z]

[Snow Crash]

England is a small island nation lacking in its ability to protect itself in the global arena.

Well, firstly, its The United Kingdom, not just England. Secondly, It is extremely foolish to think that the UK is incapable of defending itself, even with the best effots of the Labour Government to shrink the military. Furthermore, I'd like to put a stop to this idea some of the American brethren seem to have that Brits don't like the idea of being able to defend themselves.


There was a time when the sun never set on the British Empire. That time is Over..

Seriously? I had no idea. Thanks for the heads up, Torb lol.


They are aware that their nation is small and vulnerable.

Vulnerable to what? Do tell, I'm curious as to what you come up with.


Being small and defenseless generates a feeling of Dependency. This is perhaps what Cog was referring to in his jibes about Freedom. In the event of all out global warfare, the people of England KNOW, in their hearts, that they will once again have to ASK some other, larger, nation (not necessarily the USA) for Help.

Ahhhhhhhhhh of course. I forgot... World War Two started in December of 1941 didn't it? After the Battle of Britain. And Britain didn't do any fighting did it? Sat around and got bombed until the USA single handedly beat the Japanese, the Italians AND the Germans.

Would you like to tell that to the 61,715 British troops that landed in Normandy on D Day? What about the Eighth Army that fought Rommel and the Afrika Korps? Or was Operation Torch the only part of North African Campaign worth mentioning?

We never helped in the invasion of Italy either. That must have not happened.

We didn't do shit against the Japanese either, obviously. Burma veterans must have dreamed that shit up, obviously.

How could I have forgotten my history to such an extent? Must be because I am not free that I cannot see beyond such obvious LIES...

'facepalm'


On some level, that has GOT to stick in the craw of the average Englander.

Actually I think the average BRITON, while annoyed at being betrayed for the EU by the Government, is more concerned about the state of its society, and being aparty to fucked up, bullshit wars based off the back of corporate greed, rather than measuring its cock against the Russians, the Chinese, and the Iranians.


England is incapable of defending its sovereignty.

Then by all means my pedigree chum, launch an invasion. I suspect even if the defence is unsuccessful, you may find the major population centres of the US eerily glowing for the next ten thousand years.


This inability to defend yourself, from domestic bad guys,

Your confusing stupid fucked up laws that protect criminals with lack of ability to fight off criminals. At the risk of sounding like a broken record here, I'll tell you in a nutshell what I told that self righteous twat Cogburn; until you're own house is flawless on that front, you may want to reel it in a tad.


from your own police,

So you believe there should be armed conflict in the streets of the UK between the Police and the Civillians when a cop steps out of line, do you? Is that how they do it in the US?


"They" have been trying for, what? eight years now, to turn America into a fearful nation. So far "they" aren't really succeeding... it takes a few generations for that type of Fear to become a national mindset.

You may want to reassess their tactics. They play on what you hold dearest to get you to do the dumb shit they get you to do. Funny how a brightly coloured piece of cloth and all the neurolinguistic programming buried therein can motivate so many people into doing so much fucking foolishness.

And on the contrary, I think you'll find they already have you scared. Not necessarily you personally, Torb, but the populace. Neurotriggers... words that induce reactions. Think carefully... what word from the past eight years has been used to con people into condoning so many bloodsoaked atrocities? Hint: it begins with T.


The real question, though, isn't "what are we now?" but rather "what can we Become?"

The question is indeed "what can we become." However, change begins with spreading awareness and educating. You don't just wake up one day, get vexed at something the Government does, then cruise down to Parliament, or Congress, or whatever, and slaughter everyone, and replace them with people you dig.


I'm sorry if the people of England are afraid to take pictures of cops and post them on the internet.

Who said they are afraid? Did you actually watch the video and read up on this before posting? They are protesting the law, as it is the first steps in eliminating a free press. You think because the law is there, every journalist and civillian with a camera, is going to obey it? LOL!

What the Government wants is this Fear you keep waffling on about. THAT is why the law is there. To give them a tool to intimidate. They aren't quite as smart as they think though, I'd wager.


This is the primary reason why empires fail. The peoples of the subdued nations "want" their "freedoms" MORE than they want to live an oppressed lifestyle.... in short, they would rather die than carry on with the status quo.

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiinnnnnndeed. Bit like Suicide bombers in Palestine, right? And in Iraq? Maybe that explains Iran's actions when it comes to Israel.


Bottom line is, responsible people govern themselves, protect themselves, take care of themselves. If individuals choose to give up that responsibility to a third party then they have no one to blame for the sorry state of affairs they may find themselves in but themselves.

Yeah, cos you know, I personally have been around since the Peasant's Revolt, and I chose to give up any freedom I was fighting for. So I can clearly just live with it.

Enki, give me fucking strength...


it was 300,000,000 U.S. citizens that did this to us (and the world)

I would disagree, and I do so for the very reason you don't seem to grasp, Torb. Not everyone KNOWS. How can they resist what they don't KNOW? This is why They place such importance in Media and NLP. It's a fight for information control, first and fucking foremost. You do not wage a struggle for positive change based on ONE front. That is dangerously narrow sighted.


Who is to blame for the sorry state of affairs in England? Did we do that? The French? Aliens? Or did you do it to yourselves?

The Government and their masters did it, and by inducing and encouraging such shocking apathy, it made their task all the more easier. ONCE AGAIN, by passing information, we are working to shake that. It IS a long road, but its better to do that than do fuck all and listen to smug, deluded wankers like Cogburn crow about the 'Freedom' he thinks he has, simply cos he can own a fucking GUN.


Snow, I love you man,

*Sniff*

I love you too, man!

*Man tears*


but complaining about the 'police state' is pretty empty. There's more of YOU than THEM.

No. Actually there are more zombies than anything else at present. Hence, spreading the word is what is required here. EDUCATING people. Again, its SHOWING the flock what is going on. How can they be angry about something they are oblivious to?

It's simple logic, man.


Until such time, it's your own soggy diaper and no one is going to change it for you.

Ok, please demonstrate where I ASKED for help? I don't seem to fucking recall such an incident.

What has happened here Torb, though you seem to have COMPLETELY missed it, is I was posting information about police action and laws curtailing freedom of press, and Cogburn, the High Authority on Freedom (who STILL has yet to put his money where his fucking mouth is and educate us in this 'Alien Language'), came in guns blazing, making shitty remarks about my people in general, and basically saying we should shut the fuck up complaining about the abuse, and we should be happy with our lot, somehow equating that because there was still a Royal Family in the UK, that non of its citizens were allowed to aspire for greater things. If you had READ the thread without getting the blinkers on over the Nationalist shit, you may have SEEN that.

THAT is what this argument has been about. THAT and the fact that Cog thought he would get a fucking easy ride, then had to try and argue the toss over IRRELEVANT shit when he saw it wouldnt be quite the fucking cakewalk he anticipated.


Take a lesson from your own history. When enough primitive peoples with pointy sticks say enough is enough, and stand up against the 'superior' fire power of the 'police state', the shear number of pointy sticks, in the end, Wins.

LMFAO... You can't be serious. You need to do a little more digging, rather than based your remarks off the back fo a movie. Look into the psychology and thinking of commanders.

And as you're such a fan, go watch Zulu, the Michael Caine flick. You may find it intriguing.


You can try to blame the 'police state' for keeping you down, but currently the only person Physically stopping you from doing things is You.

You are preaching to the choir here. But again, it seems you need to work on Overview, mon amie.


Seriously, what, Exactly, is stopping you from walking around with a hidden camera, gathering images and data on law enforcement officers, and discreetly posting that data on the internet??

Ohhhhhhhhhh so now you DO grasp the concept of information warfare?


The only thing I see stopping you is Fear of Retribution

Then clearly Torb, you're either not looking at me, you need your eyes tested, or you're making gorss assumptions with nothing but random misguided ideas.

Or, and here's an interesting concept, maybe I don't run around the net giving out details of things. Maybe I understand information control to such an extent that I know its fucking STUPID to run around giving it the "I'm the modern day Che" shit.



if ALL you can come up with is "I'm Afraid that They Might Hurt Me"

Please demonstrate where I have even fucking IMPLIED that that is what I think. Jesus Torb, this is a fucking stretch, even for you.


Trying to insight others to do your battle for you is pretty chicken shit. Grow some balls and actually LEAD your people to the promised land.

LOL... it's "incite," but it is rather amusing that you should call it insight, considering I am trying to get you to see the mystical power behind educating people, or giving them insight, if you will.

Again, you make an awful lot of assumptions, with very little by way of intelligence regarding myself Torb. You didn't learn much from our previous exchange did you?

[Snow Crash]

What timing.....
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/02/article-1196941-05900DF7000005DC-677_468x636.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
[offsite:2xa01b5s]Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.

The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour.

Britain has an even worse violence rate than South Africa (file picture)

The Tories said Labour had presided over a decade of spiralling violence.

In the decade following the party's election in 1997, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77 per cent to 1.158million - or more than two every minute.

The figures, compiled from reports released by the European Commission and United Nations, also show:

The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.
It has a higher homicide rate than most of our western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU.
It has the fourth highest burglary rate and the highest absolute number of burglaries in the EU, with double the number of offences than recorded in Germany and France.
But it is the naming of Britain as the most violent country in the EU that is most shocking. The analysis is based on the number of crimes per 100,000 residents.

In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.

The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.

Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: 'This is a damning indictment of this government's comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.[/offsite:2xa01b5s]

And you point is?

Oh wait, I get it. You're doing more dick measuring. Carry on.

[Cogburn]

How about that the restriction of weapons has no bearing on the commission of violent crime.

I'll use smaller words next time if it will help.

[torbjon]

Snow Crash:

*laughs* I've learned that I've gone from a "dozy cunt" to a first name, that it's pretty easy to rattle your chain and get an entertaining response, and that I like butting heads with you (even when I have to make shit up in order to do so). All of that is pretty groovy in my book. Not quite as good as porn, but much better than video games *shrugs*

YES, everything you say is true. I made a LOT of assumptions.... I HAD to 'cause you don't seem too keen on giving an actual Stance.

You're OP just sez "check this out". WTF? I ASSUMED you weren't too cool with the 'police state', but honestly? For all I know you fucking LOVE the thing, can't get enough of it, want More of it.

So, where do you actually Stand on this issue? Police State: Yay or Nay? and Why?

Also, if 'getting the word out' is high on your list of things to do, how, EXACTLY, are you going about doing that? Is Amkon your be all / end all soap box? Do you have a blog? A website? Mass mailings? Organized rallies? Are their other forums you frequent and share your 'words of wisdom'? How many people are you trying to reach? How can we (Amkonians) Help you reach more people?

keep in mind that just 'getting the word out' doesn't really do anything other than piss people off... you need a game plan, a Goal, a desired outcome in order to focus the anger 'getting the word out' generates... pissed off people, by themselves, aren't very proactive or productive. They need a direction and a strong leader in order to channel that energy... Have you got something like that?

Look dude, I don't know about Cog, but when I play with you I see this great big button that sez Push Me. I push on the thing and all kinds of entertaining stuff happens... I'm a stoopid 'merican who likes to be entertained, so, whaddaya expect, hmmm? How could I pass up a happy button like that?

However, I'd be more than happy to fly the other way and actually work With you rather than Against you... if I only knew where the fuck you were coming from, what you stand for, what you believe in, how far you are really willing to go, who the hell you really are, etc etc etc. 'cause right now all I know about you is that yer a nobody from nowhere... scratch that, a nobody from some pissant little country that nobody really takes very seriously, and, if Cogs stats can be believed, from the most violent country in the EU, much more violent than my own fucked up little hell hole, and it even beats out South Africa for fucked upedness (now there's something to be proud of)... basically a fearful little dude with a Napoleon complex and a great big button that sez "push me and watch me jiggle" on his forehead *shrugs*

You want I should see something else? Then paint a different picture. Take a Chance. Take the Risk. Put something of yourself into the equation.

A lot of people call me STUPID for putting so much of myself out there. You've been one of them *shrugs* I'm cool with that. They have Their reasons for hiding, I have My reasons for not hiding. Our reasons are valid to ourselves and that's all that matters, right? But I just can't take a nameless / faceless internet spammer very seriously. You could be telling me the ultimate answer to life, the universe, and everything, but, coming from "Snow Crusher"? mmph. I'm gonna have a hard time buying that. So are a lot of other people, me thinks. Ducky, on the other hand, I take pretty seriously. She has dumped a lot of herself into these forums. We know a lot about her as a human being and that carries a lotta weight (with me, and others too, I'd wager). Mojo and Pack have established private communications with me. I know them, they know me.... a mutual trust and respect has been earned. Because of that (and that alone) I put more faith into their ramblings than I do yours.

So, no, actually, I DIDN'T learn much about you from our previous exchange... or this one. (probably won't from the next one too, only time will tell) All I"m learning is that your digital ego (thanks Mark) has great big, easily pushed buttons.

I guess that makes me a dozy cunt again, huh? oh well...

speaking of cunts... time to surf some porn, whoopee!!

[Snow Crash]

How about that the restriction of weapons has no bearing on the commission of violent crime.

Yeah, so the point of highlighting that pertaining to this argument that you are allegedly not having is what exactly? That people in the UK don't need guns to have a tear-up?

Ohhhhh, you've still got your knickers in a twist over the whole school shooting shit, a fish you landed when you thought it would be clever to bring up knife crime! So sorry, forgot about that.

[Cogburn]

Yeah, so the point of highlighting that pertaining to this argument that you are allegedly not having is what exactly? That people in the UK don't need guns to have a tear-up?

... or it could be bait to have you support my point that people don't need guns to be violent. That with or without guns violent, stupid people will still be violent and stupid. There just seems to be a greater proportion of them in the UK according to recent crime statistics.

Small wonder that some of those violent, stupid people end up on the police force, no?

[Snow Crash]

Snow Crash:
I've learned that I've gone from a "dozy cunt" to a first name, that it's pretty easy to rattle your chain and get an entertaining response, and that I like butting heads with you (even when I have to make shit up in order to do so). All of that is pretty groovy in my book.

This sounds familiar. Saving face off the blowback from a highly misguided post again, Torb?

Making shit up? Were you actually aware you were chatting shit then? So you're not in fact interested in being contructive? And please don't confuse butting heads with talking shit before getting your arse handed to you. We've already had that convo done to death in this thread with Cog.


YES, everything you say is true. I made a LOT of assumptions.... I HAD to 'cause you don't seem too keen on giving an actual Stance.

Let's be clear here. Assumptions made were about my fears and actions, not on stances. To anyone with half a brain, it should be fairly obvious what my stance is.


For all I know you fucking LOVE the thing, can't get enough of it, want More of it.

...as is CLEARLY evident from my words, Torb... *sigh*


So, where do you actually Stand on this issue? Police State: Yay or Nay? and Why?

Well OBVIOUSLY I am totally Pro Police State, as you well know. And as Cockburn knows, because he knows SO much about the way Brits think.

So let me sum it up. While you read, see if you can spot where I am being sarcastic. It will be a nice little test of your perceptiveness.

I love seeing corruption in government going unpunished.

I love seeing brutality and a lack of respect for the rights of civillians being encouraged among police officers, not only by superior officers, but by the government.

I love seeing British troops sent off to fight wars on behalf of coprorate interests, while the Government claims its for our safety, and that we're in danger from WMDs and Terrorists. Terrorists which half of the top figures are fucking intel assets of various western orgs.

I love the government erroding rights to protest, and intimidating the protest groups with overt intel gathering units.

I love not being able to protest outside the heart of British 'Democracy', simply because the bastards in charge don't want to have a look at us while they tear this country to shreds.

I love the government erroding rights regarding the press, and working with corporate media to spread their bullshit.

I love seeing corporate corruption being swept under the carpet, with minimal done by way of punishing those responsible, and when people get angry over it, THEY get treated like shit. Like criminals.

I love people being arrested for defending themselves, simply because the police want a raise in arrest figures.

There you go. I'm taking bets on how bad you're going to balls this up. Good odds, too.


Also, if 'getting the word out' is high on your list of things to do, how, EXACTLY, are you going about doing that?

Education, writing, music, communications.

I would run a full scale ad campagin, but unless you can fund that, then kindly stop talking bollocks.

How about yourself?


How can we (Amkonians) Help you reach more people?

LOL

What makes you think that I would AUTOMATICALLY A) TRUST and B) Trust in the ABILITY of people I do not know that well? There are some people here who I have a lot of respect for, regarding their intelligence and their ideas and their principles. But does that mean I would work with them? No, because I don't KNOW them.

Maybe that will change in the future. Maybe it won't. Who knows.


you need a game plan, a Goal, a desired outcome in order to focus the anger 'getting the word out' generates... pissed off people, by themselves, aren't very proactive or productive. They need a direction and a strong leader in order to channel that energy... Have you got something like that?

I have, yes. But no, you cannot hear it. You seem to know a lot about plans though, so why don't you be a good little Guerrilla Commander, and tell us? Seeing as you love sharing info and all.


Look dude, I don't know about Cog, but when I play with you I see this great big button that sez Push Me. I push on the thing and all kinds of entertaining stuff happens...

Mind games are not your forte, Torb, so stop, please. You're embarrassing yourself. And btw, I don't know if you still have that martyr complex or not, but not taking shit from jumped up nationalist gobshites is not a bad thing, you know.


However, I'd be more than happy to fly the other way and actually work With you rather than Against you... if I only knew where the fuck you were coming from, what you stand for, what you believe in, how far you are really willing to go, who the hell you really are, etc etc etc. 'cause right now all I know about you is that yer a nobody from nowhere...

How generous. You ever play chess, btw?


scratch that, a nobody from some pissant little country that nobody really takes very seriously

And thus, you reveal your true hand. You know a lot about diplomacy, do you? Got some knowledge of how shit works in diplomatic circles? Beyond what CNN tells you?


and, if Cogs stats can be believed, from the most violent country in the EU, much more violent than my own fucked up little hell hole, and it even beats out South Africa for fucked upedness (now there's something to be proud of)

So I'll ask you what I asked Cog. Those stats are relevant to this thread in what way?


basically a fearful little dude with a Napoleon complex and a great big button that sez "push me and watch me jiggle" on his forehead *shrugs*

Nonchalance in text form does not hide your true feelings. You tried that before, remember?


You want I should see something else?

You rather arrogantly assume, as you did in our previous engagement, Torb, that I respect your opinion of YT. You're just a fucking WUM. And not even a good one at that. You talk a lot of shit about how other people dont know this, or need to know that, or they aren't committed to change... and you're an authority why? Cos you like to parade your kid in your ava?


Then paint a different picture.

Can I use crayons instead? Paint is rather messy, yknow...


Take a Chance. Take the Risk. Put something of yourself into the equation.

Once more, you are talking with no frame of reference, and you make yourself look a tit in the process.


Our reasons are valid to ourselves and that's all that matters, right?

By the way, can I have your home address, home and mobile phone number, and mugshots of you and each member of your family? Seeing as you are ALL about telling everyone who you are etc.


But I just can't take a nameless / faceless internet spammer very seriously.

Did I ask you to? Who are you that I should give a shit regarding your paranoia?


You could be telling me the ultimate answer to life, the universe, and everything,

Something tells me you wouldn't grasp it if I DID tell you, Torb, sorry to say. Even with full personal details at your disposal.


So are a lot of other people, me thinks.

Yes, because everyone is clearly incapable of reading varifiable information and thinking on it for themselves, due simply to a pseudonym having passed it on. Did you know, I run the Guardian newspaper? Thats why I linked to some articles on their site. Cos I, with my all encompassing agenda, control what they say. I also link to the BBC as well, so I must have some interests in them as well.


Ducky, on the other hand, I take pretty seriously. She has dumped a lot of herself into these forums. We know a lot about her as a human being and that carries a lotta weight (with me, and others too, I'd wager). Mojo and Pack have established private communications with me. I know them, they know me.... a mutual trust and respect has been earned. Because of that (and that alone) I put more faith into their ramblings than I do yours.

LOL! So THAT is what this is all about! You wan't me to join your little social networking thing?

Man... I am touched. Seriously. I had no IDEA you cared so much about getting to know me.

You know, some people may wonder why you're so keen on getting to know the ins and outs on people. To some people, that reeks of pork. Are you gathering intel, Torb?

I have PM'd Mojo and Pack as well btw. Nice guys, got time for their thoughts and opinions. Does that mean I'm gonna hand out fucking bank details and medical records? No, clearly not.


So, no, actually, I DIDN'T learn much about you from our previous exchange... or this one.

Seems then that you should pay attention more.


All I"m learning is that your digital ego (thanks Mark) has great big, easily pushed buttons.

And you're clearly such a master of psychology, that you can push them at will, right? LOL... don't delude yourself into thinking that me making mincemeat out of your posts is all part of some grand plan that you had laid out in order to get jollies. You're a plastic intellectual, Torb.

Oh look... you have neglected to address much of what was said in my response to your posts. Too much to handle? No decent retorts? And no facts to back up your bullshit assertions?

Seems you're copying Cog, Torb. Can't argue, so won't, and will instead get straight down to trying to get the goat. I'll repeat it for your benefit: if you don't like my responses, don't talk shit.

I really do not get what some people don't grasp about that. This whole "It couldn't happen to ME" shit is just... illogical.

[Snow Crash]

or it could be bait to have you support my point that people don't need guns to be violent. That with or without guns violent, stupid people will still be violent and stupid. There just seems to be a greater proportion of them in the UK according to recent crime statistics.

Small wonder that some of those violent, stupid people end up on the police force, no?

So you would admit then that the police actions highlighted in my threads are an issue for concern?

So what the fuck were you complaining about in the first place?

Don't you think wrong should be highlighted and punished?

Oh wait... I forgot. It's only in the US that it should be, cos that is CLEARLY the home of justice, freedom, transparency, accountability, and all those other lovely ideals the rest of us mere mortals cannot ever wish for.

[torbjon]

Snow Crash:

I gave up on your rant, it was a bit repetitive and I already know what a low life numbnut loooooser I am, but thanks for pointing alla that out again nonetheless. However, this little hummer:


By the way, can I have your home address, home and mobile phone number, and mugshots of you and each member of your family? Seeing as you are ALL about telling everyone who you are etc.

I will answer:

http://www.torbtown.com

everything you requested can be obtained via that link... you have to be just a tiny bit smart though (which, apparently, most bill collectors are Not... funny that)

have fun.

I'm gonna go watch the fireworks now.
laters
twj


oh, you mentioned doing music... care to share or is that just a closet thing? thanks

[Snow Crash]

Snow Crash:
I gave up on your rant, it was a bit repetitive and I already know what a low life numbnut loooooser I am, but thanks for pointing alla that out again nonetheless.

Translates to: "I have no response to the vast majority of what you just said."

And in case it WAS totally lost on you, my request for personals was actually sarcasm, something both yourself and Cog have a hard time grasping. Once again: I don't actually give a shit. You're not that important.

Thank you for playing Torb. See you next time you decide to act like a cock.

[ApolloRising]

OK, so here's some points I gathered from reading over this.

Cogburn has no response to my last post, has ignored it entirely and thus admits defeat and shows, by default, his argument to be weak and invalid. He's sick of having his sorry attempts at rebuttels turned upside-down and inside out because he's talking utter shit and is too proud (read: egotistical) to step down honourably.

Cogburn has presented irrelivant statistics to prove that we're a violent country. Yeah, shit yes we are, violent, oh fucking yes, and violent without guns, it's true, we are. Your point? Your point is, apparently, to prove that violent dicks will be violent dicks even without guns.

Well, here's my point, and lets be clear here, because you can't seem to grasp any point I make. Admittedly it helps to have a rough grasp of language, so I'll try to break it down nice and simple: Yes, violence occurs without guns, just when it occurs with guns, it's much fucking easier to kill someone, or lots of people, very quickly.

If it weren't, our army would still be using bows and arrows. So, in short: Guns are MORE destructive than the readily available alternatives in the UK. Once more: Guns are MORE descrutive.

Torb has joined in order to add to the general chat shit vibe (apparently purely to cause shit, by his own admission, apparently) that has started to develop here. Has done so with various ridiculous comments, such as suggesting he can't take someone's idealogical points seriously on account of not knowing the guys name.

Fairly retarded. I mean, I don't trust fortune cookies, not because I don't know the guy's name who wrote it. If a guy came up to me in a trenchcoat, hat, dark glasses and wearing a fake beard and said something to me that was profound and made a lot of sense, I wouldn't need to know the guys name for my brain to register that it means something.

If I got hit by a car, and an ambulance came, I wouldn't be questioning the paramedics wisdom because I don't know their names. You know why? You do know why that's stupid, right?

You know why what you're talking is entirely irrelivant and nonsense?

But ok, whatever, just out of curiosity, what is your name and address. And I don't want this 'here check out my website instead' bullshit, please tell me what your full name and address is, if you're cool with it. Phone number would also be good. Hell, I'll be happy with just two of those things. Posted, in writing, right in front of us all. Thanks.

[ApolloRising]

I'd also like to add something to my last post, but it's on a different subject, so I'll add it seperately. I just wanted to compile what Torb has contributed to this discussion. I don't like Cog's stance, I find it insulting and painfully stupid, but at least he's been trying. He's in a different league to Torb, here.

I'd like to quote something Torb said on his website in an English Essay on Date Rape:


I’ve never perceived grandstanding or mudslinging to be very valid methods for getting a point across.

Now:


it's your own soggy diaper and no one is going to change it for you


shut the fuck up and quit the saber rattling.


Grow some balls


it's pretty easy to rattle your chain and get an entertaining response


I like butting heads with you


but when I play with you I see this great big button that sez Push Me. I push on the thing and all kinds of entertaining stuff happens


all I know about you is that yer a nobody from nowhere... scratch that, a nobody from some pissant little country that nobody really takes very seriously


[snowcrash is] a fearful little dude with a Napoleon complex and a great big button that sez "push me and watch me jiggle"

All that in but two posts. You're not getting your point across, now, are you? The only point you seem to be making, a valid point, and one being made well, is how much of a cock you are.

[Snow Crash]

LOL! Nicely done Apollo.

Torb got hoisted by his own petard.

[torbjon]

This sounds familiar. Saving face off the blowback from a highly misguided post again, Torb?

Nope, I have no face to save.


Making shit up? Were you actually aware ... {snip}

Nope, not aware of anything, me stoopid numbnut.



Let's be clear here. Assumptions made were about my fears and actions, not on stances. To anyone with half a brain,... {snip}

well, you've made it pretty clear that ain't me, I got no brian, duh.



So let me sum it up. While you read, see if you can spot where I am being sarcastic. It will be a nice little test of your perceptiveness.

um, 'sarcastic' has three syllables... that's more than I can handle, sorry.


{snip} long list of things you love

Boy! you love lots! you love long time! five dollah?

I love long walks on the beach, pretty flowers, and Elmo.


Education, writing, music, communications.

again, care to share this 'music' stuff, or is it just a closet thing?


I would run a full scale ad campagin, but unless you can fund that, then kindly stop talking bollocks.

How about yourself?

I don't complain about the shitty situations that I find myself in.




What makes you think... {snip}

I Don't Think, remember?? Now who's the numbnut? You got Alzheimer are something? sheesh.



...{snip}...No, because I don't KNOW them.

and whose fault is that? Have you even Tried?


Maybe that will change in the future. Maybe it won't. Who knows.

You do. You, and The Shadow, he knows everything.


I have, yes. But no, you cannot hear it. You seem to know a lot about plans though, so why don't you be a good little Guerrilla Commander, and tell us? Seeing as you love sharing info and all.

Sure, step one, pull your head out of your ass. Step two, re-insert your head in your ass. Repeat steps one and two ad infinitum until you grow up.


Mind games are not your forte, Torb, so stop, please.

but your button is just too easy, dude, I mean, if a totally worthless Loser like me can push it, c'mon... besides, it's Fun watching you jiggle.


You're embarrassing yourself.

Thanks. I try to eat right, exercise, and embarrass my self every day.


And btw, I don't know if you still have that martyr complex or not, but not taking shit from jumped up nationalist gobshites is not a bad thing, you know.

oh ya, I can out martyr the best of 'em. Ever wear a horse hair shirt? YUMMY!


How generous. You ever play chess, btw?

Not chess, Mr. Spock... Poker.


And thus, you reveal your true hand.

oh really? okay. Even with my cards showing, I'll still raise you a buck.


You know a lot about diplomacy, do you?

no, not really. I don't know a lot about anything... jack of all trades, master of none.


Got some knowledge of how shit works in diplomatic circles?

nope... does labor relations count?


Beyond what CNN tells you?

I forced myself to watch about ten minutes a day of CNN when Nola was in school and I was waiting to pick her up... it usually made me wanna vomit though. Glad I'm not doing That schedule anymore. Not fond of teevee. I don't own one. Only get to see it at other peoples houses. In general I try not to go to those houses. Teevee is like heroine and I'm not fond of junkies.... lemme guess... you own a teevee and have "favorite" programs, huh? mmph. junkie.


So I'll ask you what I asked Cog. Those stats are relevant to this thread in what way?

so far, absolutely NOTHING has been 'relevant' to this thread. There was a rather meaningless yet leading OP, followed by a buncha very amusing bullshit by everybody.


Nonchalance in text form does not hide your true feelings. You tried that before, remember?

I have true feelings? really? wow... um... so what do I do with these... 'feelings'? can I fuck them? do they taste good? do tell...



You rather arrogantly assume, as you did in our previous engagement, Torb, that I respect your opinion of YT.

nawww, I don't think you have much respect for anything or anyone... especially me. I just think that you like to fight a lot and like to be on top.


You're just a fucking WUM. And not even a good one at that.

what's a wum? I'm stupid... but you have Alzheimers... so lemme remind you: I'm Stupid. What's a wum? Maybe if I knew what one was I could be a better one. Do wums have to swallow?


You talk a lot of shit about how other people dont know this, or need to know that, or they aren't committed to change...

quantify "a lot". five posts? ten posts? 100? 1000? By my reckoning I've pushed your button Twice now... is twice "a lot"?


and you're an authority why?

I'm not an authority on anything... 'cept maybe Pacific Northwest Seafood... pretty sure I could run circles around most folks on that one. Kind of a boring subject, though.


Cos you like to parade your kid in your ava?

no, but we google better than most major corporations and small nations.



Can I use crayons instead? Paint is rather messy, yknow...

sure, they actually have really groovy ones now, good color, and they totally wash off, give it a shot, couldn't hurt any...



Once more, you are talking with no frame of reference, and you make yourself look a tit in the process.

Doesn't bother me one bit. I look quite good in a bra.


By the way, can I have your home address, home and mobile phone number, and mugshots of you and each member of your family? Seeing as you are ALL about telling everyone who you are etc.

gave it to you already, you blew it off. Tried looking you up though, "Snow Crash" is sooo un-original. There's a million of you out there, and every one a ninny. 'Cept this one kid... he was a gaming geek and alright.


Did I ask you to?

Nope, you didn't. But until I tag you yer just another nameless, faceless plaything with bright shiny buttons who will not be taken seriously by anyone who matters.


Who are you that I should give a shit regarding your paranoia?

um, not sure that you should give a shit bout Anything. Ever. As far as who am I goes, I'm Torbjon, I can be found at torbtown.com.


Something tells me you wouldn't grasp it if I DID tell you, Torb, sorry to say. Even with full personal details at your disposal.

and something tells me that you don't know the answer *smirks*


Yes, because everyone is clearly incapable of reading varifiable information and thinking on it for themselves, due simply to a pseudonym having passed it on.

No, because Most information is NOT verifiable. Internet information is the least reliable of all. You posted an out of context youtube video as your OP. Tell us all why you choose to have Faith in that. How do you Know that that wasn't staged? Why? Because it "feels" right to you? It strikes a happy nerve in your funny bone, therefore it MUST be FACTUAL? That video could just as easily have been FAKED by anti-cop tree hugging hippies for all we know. If the person presenting the information is deceitful, it's harder to swallow, no matter how 'factual' the information may be. If the person presenting the information is upfront and honest about themselves, their intentions, their goals, it's a lot easier to swallow, no matter how Whack that information may be. SERPO was a good example of that...


Did you know, I run the Guardian newspaper?

Nope, didn't know that. Run how, exactly? ceo? custserv? somewhere in between? Your website is kinda blah and not very user friendly... not seeing a personals section, either. best part of any paper is the personals... got one of those?


Thats why I linked to some articles on their site. Cos I, with my all encompassing agenda, control what they say. I also link to the BBC as well, so I must have some interests in them as well.

BBC, ey? big fan of Dr. Who... never shoulda let the states have that property, bad move on your part, dork. Same with The Office. Was it just for money? was that why you ruined those shows? Shame on you, BBC man.



LOL! So THAT is what this is all about! You wan't me to join your little social networking thing?

NO, not at all. This is about the massive amounts of pleasure I get from pushing your buttons.


Man... I am touched. Seriously. I had no IDEA you cared so much about getting to know me.

yer an interesting character. READ "character". I don't lose sleep over it, but ya, I'm a little curious about the actor behind the character... don't let it go to your head though, you are only 'interesting'... the BE character Fascinates me. Now there's some one I dream about *dreamy*


You know, some people may wonder why you're so keen on getting to know the ins and outs on people. To some people, that reeks of pork. Are you gathering intel, Torb?

Well, DUH. You're only now figuring that out? And they call me stupid... sheesh.


I have PM'd Mojo and Pack as well btw. Nice guys, got time for their thoughts and opinions. Does that mean I'm gonna hand out fucking bank details and medical records? No, clearly not.

why does standing up and saying "My name is Torbjon, and I'm an Amkonholic" have to equate to bank details and medical records? and you call ME paranoid? crazy assed shit, that's what that is.



Seems then that you should pay attention more.

where's the fun in that?


And you're clearly such a master of psychology, that you can push them at will, right? LOL... don't delude yourself into thinking that me making mincemeat out of your posts is all part of some grand plan that you had laid out in order to get jollies.[quote:1ru3hwvo]

I make it pretty easy for folks to make mincemeat outta my crap... I would HOPE that any inbred, brain dead, alcoholic numbnut could take my psychotic contradictory dribble and rip it to shreds... if they can't, well, fuck them, right? the twits.


[quote:1ru3hwvo]You're a plastic intellectual, Torb.

Why, thank you. I have a plastic fantastic lover, too:

o]zHC9NANKluUo]


Oh look... you have neglected to address much of what was said in my response to your posts. Too much to handle? No decent retorts? And no facts to back up your bullshit assertions?

naww, yer crap is easy to handle.. it was just boring.


Seems you're copying Cog, Torb. Can't argue, so won't, and will instead get straight down to trying to get the goat. I'll repeat it for your benefit: if you don't like my responses, don't talk shit.

or he me... hey, I LOVE your responses... shit shit shit. yer just a violent wanker. shit shit shit.


I really do not get what some people don't grasp about that. This whole "It couldn't happen to ME" shit is just... illogical.

Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD. Are you sure your circuits are functioning correctly? Your ears are green.

And NO, numbnut,


Translates to: "I have no response to the vast majority of what you just said."[/quote:1ru3hwvo][/quote:1ru3hwvo]

the statement did Not require a 'translation'. The fireworks were starting right outside my house, so I went out to watch them, 'cause they were more pretty and more fun than playing with you...

now I am back... looking for my play pretty... I will call him George, and I will love him and hug him and pet him.

yer turn.
twj

[ApolloRising]

Why write all that, Torb, when it's so much easier to just say 'I'm a dick' and leave it at that?

Cut out the middle man.

[torbjon]

ApolloRising:

WooHoo!!! FINALLY!!!

Finally someone around here who actually does their freekin' homework!

I Love You dude!

SMITED for intelligence, bravery, gumption, and alla that other ooey gooey bullshit.


All that in but two posts. You're not getting your point across, now, are you? The only point you seem to be making, a valid point, and one being made well, is how much of a cock you are.

you got that right, comrade. and not a very big one, at that. *sighs* I make for a very childish and lame asshole, huh? It just ain't in me... but you, bub, YOU nailed it on the head...

Snow kinda got it, but not really... but You, WOW, perfecto. Nicely researched, nicely analyzed, succinctly put... very professional.

Looking forward to seeing more of your stuff.

this is awesome.

smite smite smite.

truly, made my day, thanks, comrade.

seeya
twj

[torbjon]

Why write all that, Torb, when it's so much easier to just say 'I'm a dick' and leave it at that?

Cut out the middle man.

'cause I'm just fucking around with Snow... just saying "I'm a dick" doesn't get nearly the same quantity or quality of entertainment outta him, ya know? I sincerely doubt he'd WASTE HIS TIME ON ME if he didn't get some grins and giggles outta it... and if he's NOT getting any giggles outta this, well... whose fault is that? I just walk away when a thread gets boring, ya know? If it ain't fun, why stick around, right? No one is forcing him to play, he's doing this to himself... same on my end.

as an aside, have you noticed how Important it is to Snow to 'win'? to be 'right'? to be 'top dog'? no doubts as to wears the strap on in that family, ey? *laughs*

Think I'm gonna smite that dick post of yours, 'cause yer just too cool, dude, could keep a side of beef in you for a week.

[torbjon]

oh poop, gotta smite someone Else before you can get the brownie points.
okay, one for Snow for being so British, then another for you for being frosty....

[torbjon]

okay, smited you both. Snow? where'd ya go? you see how it's done now? ApolloRising WINS. Not you, certainly not me. Apollo!

[Snow Crash]

Sorry, was shredding this.... rather shockingly stupid response that you did.

I see the opening to your response is utterly childish. Are you sure thats not you in that ava?


and whose fault is that? Have you even Tried?

Am I looking to place blame? No, I am not. If we're destined to interact, then we will. Then we'll roll with it. Adapt, Darwin, I Ching, etc.

Incidently, you're cherry picking FRACTIONS of lines, I see. Pathetic.


You do.

Yeah, cos I have precognitive abilities, obviously.


I step one, pull your head out of your ass.

LOL... Wow, the toys really left the pram at high velocity there. Have I bruised some ego, Torb?


Step two, re-insert your head in your ass. Repeat steps one and two ad infinitum until you grow up.

Judging by this post Torb, you're the one seriously lacking in maturity.

BTW, do you have a thing for men's arses?


but your button is just too easy, dude, I mean, if a totally worthless Loser like me can push it, c'mon... besides, it's Fun watching you jiggle.

Ok you can drop the act. Your posing has been completely exposed. Be a man and just stop trying to impress me. You're not that good.

"A man's got to know his limitations." Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry, Magnum Force.


Not chess, Mr. Spock... Poker.

That explains a lot...


does labor relations count?

Labour relations eh? You a union person?


you own a teevee and have "favorite" programs, huh? mmph. junkie.

Oh yes... I watch Star Trek reruns all day long when not talking to you, Torb. It's you, or Captain Picard. You guys between you constitute the very best of entertainment.


[quote:1jq3r4dw]So I'll ask you what I asked Cog. Those stats are relevant to this thread in what way?

so far, absolutely NOTHING has been 'relevant' to this thread. There was a rather meaningless yet leading OP, followed by a buncha very amusing bullshit by everybody.[/quote:1jq3r4dw]

Thus you confirm that you cannot answer my question, and hence confirm that you're just a troll piece of shit.


I have true feelings? really? wow... um... so what do I do with these... 'feelings'? can I fuck them? do they taste good? do tell...

The wit is staggering.


nawww, I don't think you have much respect for anything or anyone... especially me.

I give respect where its due Torb, and you haven't done anything to earn it. BOTH times you and I have crossed swords have begun with you making a shitty, childish, arrogant, ignorant, and unwarranted post.

I know its a tough idea to wrap your mind around, but you don't get respect for acting like a cock.


I just think that you like to fight a lot

You train of thought was derailed, it seems. I don't like to fight. But you seem to confusing being able to give as good as I get as me liking to fight. You still cannot grasp the principle of standing up for oneself in the face of unwarranted aggression, can you? Or does it bug you that some self righteous dickhead compatriot of yours brought all the flag waving shit to the table, and got hammered for it? Hurt your national pride, did it? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Cog got dealt with. Comprehensively. You and I were, as far as I was concerned, cool, up until the point you started being a prick again. No doubt you will claim you don't give a shit, but whatever. Fact remains.


and like to be on top.

Wellllllllllllll............... thats really none of your business there.


Do wums have to swallow?

How adult you are.

Wind Up Merchant btw. Troll, etc. You in a nutshell, basically.


I'm not an authority on anything

Honesty is cleansing isn't it.


no, but we google better than most major corporations and small nations.

Well... I am... OVER-FUCKING-WHELMED. What do you want for that? A medal?


[quote:1jq3r4dw]Once more, you are talking with no frame of reference, and you make yourself look a tit in the process.

Doesn't bother me one bit. I look quite good in a bra.[/quote:1jq3r4dw]

Touche. A genuinely clever remark.


[quote:1jq3r4dw]By the way, can I have your home address, home and mobile phone number, and mugshots of you and each member of your family? Seeing as you are ALL about telling everyone who you are etc.

gave it to you already, you blew it off.[/quote:1jq3r4dw]

And you already addressed this comment, remember?

I won't bother reminding you that I am just not interested at present.


Tried looking you up though, "Snow Crash" is sooo un-original.

Awwwwwww......... So sorry. I'll try and be more conspicuous like you in future.


There's a million of you out there, and every one a ninny. 'Cept this one kid... he was a gaming geek and alright.

Rrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...


Nope, you didn't. But until I tag you yer just another nameless, faceless plaything with bright shiny buttons who will not be taken seriously by anyone who matters.

Ah, so you're the sole judge of social and intellectual acceptance I see. You are THAT relevant, obviously.

LOL... shit, I just had no idea what kind of net deity I was talking to, clearly.


[quote:1jq3r4dw]Something tells me you wouldn't grasp it if I DID tell you, Torb, sorry to say. Even with full personal details at your disposal.

and something tells me that you don't know the answer *smirks*[/quote:1jq3r4dw]

Please show me where I said I did?


No, because Most information is NOT verifiable. Internet information is the least reliable of all. You posted an out of context youtube video as your OP.

Go back and read the thread again Torb. SLOWLY this time.


Tell us all why you choose to have Faith in that. How do you Know that that wasn't staged?

Ok. well, in your attempt to be a clever bastard, you just made yourself look a right cunt, actually. go back to the OP, grab some key phrases, ie names, places, orgs etc, and dump them into google. See what you find.


NO, not at all. This is about the massive amounts of pleasure I get from pushing your buttons.

*YAWN*

If you insist, Sigmund Fraud.


yer an interesting character. READ "character". I don't lose sleep over it, but ya, I'm a little curious about the actor behind the character... don't let it go to your head though, you are only 'interesting'...

I assure you, I am honoured by your irrelevant, and clearly frustrated, net based vouyeurism.


why does standing up and saying "My name is Torbjon, and I'm an Amkonholic" have to equate to bank details and medical records? and you call ME paranoid? crazy assed shit, that's what that is.

Shit, seems the needle's stuck again. Just drop the issue, for the love of Buddha. It's not gonna happen just because you keep whining about it.


I make it pretty easy for folks to make mincemeat outta my crap... I would HOPE that any inbred, brain dead, alcoholic numbnut could take my psychotic contradictory dribble and rip it to shreds... if they can't, well, fuck them, right? the twits.

So then why do you get snotty when it happens? Or is it because I don't hand you my business card while doing it?


naww, yer crap is easy to handle.. it was just boring.

An obvious cop-out


the statement did Not require a 'translation'. The fireworks were starting right outside my house, so I went out to watch them,

Oh of COURSE...


I will call him George, and I will love him and hug him and pet him.

I always preferred Road Runner, myself.

[torbjon]

wow, who's cherry picking what here? I'm confused *laughs* not hard to do though, ey? Confuse the bozo, that is... Did you smite Apollo yet? That was a nice bit of work on his part, Very grown up, very professional. Give the guy a smite or two, 'kay? he's earned it.

Dude, look, last time around I saw something that really ticked me off and I went off half baked *shrugs* happens to everybody from time to time, yes? This time though? yer right. Totally lame on my part. me bad. There's no logical reason for it either, other than "I'm bored" and that I like the way you rip my psychotic shit apart. you're a good writer, it's funny to read... but you're right, it's not cool, that's a shitty thing to do to another human being, and I'm Sorry. Perhaps in time the sincerity of my apology will become self evident. Until then there's not a lot I can do about it, except repeat the "I'm Sorry" mantra over and over again... which is just more lameness... actions, right? We'll see how I do next time out... maybe this ol' dumb fuck can be smartend up a bit... stranger things have been known to happen.

Now go smite Apollo, he's the clear and decided VICTOR in this little love fest.

(have become a Duck Dodgers fan as of late, but yer right, Road Runner Rules!)

later mater, sorry I'm not ripping apart your shredding of my mutilating of your tearing of my whatever, but it's 0200 here, beddy bye for bozoboy... seriously, Bed Time, not "can't hack it" not "running and hiding", just, Bed Time, tha's all... catch you on the flip side, 'kay? Thanks for being so grown up over my pathetic plea for attention...

[Cogburn]

ROFL This thread is stupid but I'll give it one last post.

Apollo, I ignored you because you're an idiot.

It seems that stringing a coherent thought together beyond one post is a challenge for Snow and Apollo and that's cool. It seems the need to quote and reply to every single sentence is apparently an acceptable substitute for a coherent, well considered counter argument backed up back facts.

Maybe the problem is the British education system. That would explain the plethora of stupid people, both in the police force and on this forum.

[WarlordZeroOne]

To all AmKon Members, i sent a pm to Snow Crash, and i said to snow what a good job he did on those two Mothers,(and Mothers being a Figure of Speech we all use) Cog and Torbjon, the insults from the 2 members Cog And Torbjon, in the first place where not warranted,and i say again snow and apollo did a good job on those two.If the boot had been on the other FOOT i would have given the same praise to Cog and Torb,just to let all members Know,i am not one sided,i am not Biased, i also found the statements made where offensive for civilised Members, and i was the one trying to cool this Head to Head Down,but to no avail,Torbjon then joins in with Cog,the reason i stayed out of it there was to much UNTRUE SHIT being slung, so if anybody has any bones to pick get typing,BUT i will tell you this, you will not get a FIASCO like we have just had with the above mentioned.

[devilwasp]

First off, I'll apologise for my lack of posting....been a tadd busy over the last couple of days just escaping the worlds shittyness



ROFL This thread is stupid but I'll give it one last post.

Apollo, I ignored you because you're an idiot.

It seems that stringing a coherent thought together beyond one post is a challenge for Snow and Apollo and that's cool. It seems the need to quote and reply to every single sentence is apparently an acceptable substitute for a coherent, well considered counter argument backed up back facts.

Maybe the problem is the British education system. That would explain the plethora of stupid people, both in the police force and on this forum.
IMO this thread has devolved into mindless mud slinging, People being dicks and ummmm well just people being complete and utter toss bags but heh welcome to the world of on-line posting.

However, I shall say this though.....just because we IN BRITAIN have a queen ( A figure head I'll remind people) and 4 parliaments (yes 3 minor ones and a major one.) The only country of the United Kingdom is ENGLAND , correct the very country that contains the Capital has no direct parliament. But heh this will no doubt be torn apart by Americans since it is home of the "Free and brave" , but that's an argument for another time.

Just to cheer up the thread though I have a nice snippet from Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1RKRpS7CT8&feature=channel

-Al'

[Snow Crash]

ROFL This thread is stupid but I'll give it one last post.

Downplay that wounded pride, Cog... get in a few last barbs before retreating. I understand. It's never nice to go in guns blazing and then to wind up getting buried.

Can I offer you some trauma counselling?

[boycotteverything]

The foregoing thread is testimony to the well known truth that there's no percentage in trying to have a reasonable discussion with jingoist American Rambos. Snow, WL and Devilwasp have been correct on every salient point and have been met with nothing more than America-Firsters and their buckets of googled, uber-patriot puke. That's the great shame of American hubris- and the reason for the incipient failure of Pax Americana. Did someone mention Der führer und die Jugend? Alive and well and thriving right here at Amkon- regretfully.

[Snow Crash]

Well thank you Torb. In one post, one fell swoop, you demonstrate far more balls, honesty, and honour than Cogburn is apparently even capable of imagining.

Actions yes. Time is on our side though. So lets just see what happens.

[boycotteverything]

honour...CogburnMutually exclusive terms.

[Snow Crash]

The foregoing thread is testimony to the well known truth that there's no percentage in trying to have a reasonable discussion with jingoist American Rambos. Snow, WL and Devilwasp have been correct on every salient point and have been met with nothing more than America-Firsters and their buckets of googled, uber-patriot puke. That's the great shame of American hubris- and the reason for the incipient failure of Pax Americana. Did someone mention Der führer und die Jugend? Alive and well and thriving right here at Amkon- regretfully.

Fortunately BE, there are American brothers and sisters who demonstrate intelligence, wisdom, emapthy, and compassion. I am frankly fucking embarrassed by having to drag up some of the shit I have had to say, whether right or wrong, simply because I know not everyone from the States is an utter tard like Cogburn. I'd hate for people reading this who perhaps are not that worldly in their knowledge, to think that all Americans think and act like that silly prick.

[boycotteverything]

to think that all Americans think and act like that silly prickrest assured that they do not. the Rambo-Limbaughistas are loud and ugly but actually are a small percentage of the American population.

[mojo]

hahaha....this threads fucking brilliant. well worth the read. :)



oh and btw jingoism cuts both ways.

:D


smites for combatants from both sides of the battlefield.

[boycotteverything]

the Photographer thread is over. long live the Photographer thread! hahahaha and now back to Circumcision...

[ApolloRising]

This thread is stupid but I'll give it one last post.

We're honoured!



Apollo, I ignored you because you're an idiot.


Translation: Nuh, nuh I didn't reply cause...cause...cause I don't like you no more, and you is da stooped.


It seems that stringing a coherent thought together beyond one post is a challenge for Snow and Apollo and that's cool. It seems the need to quote and reply to every single sentence is apparently an acceptable substitute for a coherent, well considered counter argument backed up back facts.

Haha. I invite everyone to review the exchanges between myself, Snow and Cog in order to formulate their own opinion.

Nice to see you back tracking so fast. And, in fact, all my arguments have been entirely coherent. Amusingly it's you who can't seem to put a decent argument forward; (PM for some tips - free of charge to all in such dire need) not sure what points you're trying to make, proving the opponents points, contradicting your own, making matters personal. All really very poor.


Maybe the problem is the British education system. That would explain the plethora of stupid people, both in the police force and on this forum.

Finishing on a high, there, Cog?

Plethora. Nice. Though for full points I'd of gone for 'Perhaps the problem is...' The use of the word 'perhaps', a less common word than maybe, would add to the arrogant prick aura you're going for.

For what it's worth, you've made the wisest decision, stepping out with whatever shreds of dignity are left, hopefully not many members have seen this and your reputation won't be tainted by the stupid shit you've been talking and the sorry attempts at arguments you've been fielding.

Good day. :)

And regarding Torb:

Thanks, I think. If nothing else I like how this turned into an Apollo lovefest for a little while, and apparently I've been smited like 3 more times, which, apparently that's good.

But seeing as we're bestest friends now, can we check the 'Lets wind every fucker up for fun' stuff at the door at all? I feel that's close to your heart, but for entertainment value I recommend Gran Torino - saw it last night, modern classic. For further recommendations on literary, film, television and music options, feel free to PM me, you won't be disappointed. As Cog pointed out, us fat british teenagers shut up in our parent's lofts have lots of time to check out such things inbetween hamburgers, so you won't be disappointed.

That said, I feel like my work here is done :P

[WarlordZeroOne]

Mojo its been a super read in most parts and it has kept me glued to it,thats a great thread when it does that,but fuckin-hell Mojo it got to heavy regardless of who is right or wrong,i only hope when the thread is Loooonnnnnggggg gone,there is no animosity between our members,i am new on AmKon as you know,and when was the last time a thread was as powerful as this mother has been,and that just shows how GREAT AmKon is to be able to talk like we have, without fear of any of us getting the boot up our ARSES,and at this moment i would add a thank you, to Jive Turkey for this great site. :smokin:

[boycotteverything]

[quote:ra5od9qi]Maybe the problem is the British education system. That would explain the plethora of stupid people, both in the police force and on this forum.


Finishing on a high, there, Cog?[/quote:ra5od9qi]That 'high note' doesn't bode well for the American education system either, does it? Seems to have produced at least one incoherent babbler. hahaha

[ApolloRising]

Haha, Boycott. Well, with such an emphasis on competition in modern society it's hard to blame the weak of mind for posts like Cog's...




Nah, I'm sure Cogburn is an intelligent, rounded individual with his own well considered and grounded thoughts and opinions backed up by logic and facts and not just rhetoric... I'm sure.

[boycotteverything]

when was the last time a thread was as powerful as this mother has beenWell- it sure did flush out the resident knotted knickerist from the icky feelings pool. i grant you that.

[torbjon]

Well thank you Torb. In one post, one fell swoop, you demonstrate far more balls, honesty, and honour than Cogburn is apparently even capable of imagining.

Actions yes. Time is on our side though. So lets just see what happens.

ya, well, we'll see how it goes... I AM a dunderhead, after all, ey? *laughs* I trust you'll, um, point out the errors of my ways when I go astray again, yes? ... 'cause it's Gonna happen again you know... not because I'm out to get you (or anybody) but it's because that's who I really am... a psychotic nutjob with delusions of grandeur.

But that's why we're all here, right? This is the one internet chat room we've found where we really can be FREE to be ourselves without fear of retribution from the mods and owners... Amkonians seem to do a pretty good job at policing themselves... that, in and of itself is worthy of study, me thinks.... I mean, talk about fucked up police states, Amkon has proven time and again that individual people can resolve their differences Without the heavy hand of an enforcer looming over them. Imagine translating that into the 'real world'...

I've been advocating this for years now: (primarily the first minute of the speech, and remove the words "American" and "United States" so it just reads "People")

p]tVNwLzUcPYkp]

people try to tell me that that would be 'anarchy' and that it won't work... but I disagree. I fully believe that individual people are more than capable of governing themselves, protecting themselves, and providing for themselves IF they were just allowed to do so...

*ponders*

eek, a brief moment of lucid, rational thought... I gotta go.
twj

[torbjon]

And regarding Torb:

Thanks, I think. If nothing else I like how this turned into an Apollo lovefest for a little while, and apparently I've been smited like 3 more times, which, apparently that's good.

But seeing as we're bestest friends now, can we check the 'Lets wind every fucker up for fun' stuff at the door at all? I feel that's close to your heart, but for entertainment value I recommend Gran Torino - saw it last night, modern classic. For further recommendations on literary, film, television and music options, feel free to PM me, you won't be disappointed. As Cog pointed out, us fat british teenagers shut up in our parent's lofts have lots of time to check out such things inbetween hamburgers, so you won't be disappointed.

That said, I feel like my work here is done :P

Naww, not bestest friends, you just did some quality work and I value that, tha's all. However, as far as 'leaving stuff at the door' goes, not happening bub. As I said to Snow, and as you yourself pointed out, this is the one place we've found where we can be Free, be Ourselves, without fear of over bearing thugs giving us the boot... I can't promise that I won't troll again, but I can say that I will take responsibility for, and accept the consequences of, my actions.

I was having fun last night at Snows expense... perhaps not the coolest thing in the world to do but I did it. Conversely, I get the distinct impression that Snow was getting some type of emotional satisfaction out of ripping me apart, too... catharsis, yes? Again, perhaps not the coolest thing in the world to do, but tragedy seldom is 'cool'.... good for the soul though.... or so they tell me *shrugs*

as far as "recommendations on literary, film, television and music options" thanks for the offer, and someday I'll perhaps take you up on that, but if you dig a little deeper you'll find that I have a close relationship with LAByrinth Theater Company, and I'm up to my ears in cutting edge literary, film, television, and even music stuff... look for Jack Goes Boating in a movie theater near you soon! (now There's an emotional roller coaster *laughs*)

lucid moment is now over, porn, here I come (ha ha)
laters
twj

[Ima Nasshole]

Haha, Boycott. Well, with such an emphasis on competition in modern society it's hard to blame the weak of mind for posts like Cog's...




Nah, I'm sure Cogburn is an intelligent, rounded individual with his own well considered and grounded thoughts and opinions backed up by logic and facts and not just rhetoric... I'm sure.
It's called "Cogburned" (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cogburned)

[skunk]

Thanks for the laugh y'all. I needed it.