FUCK AL GORE!

[WITCH HUNT]

First off, the obligatory info:
I'm new here, s/w/m in the USA, 40 and trying to become single!
Now the rant:
FUCK AL GORE! What an unbelievable jackass this guy is! A global warming crusader? A human rights champion? I think not. He gives these long-winded speeches assailing the west for "environmental genocide" against the "under-developed nations". He uses half-facts or outright lies to create hysteria about our impending climatic doom. Yet, to date, he has never debated anyone about any aspect of global warming! He boldly stated that the "debate is over about global warming". Which is funny because I really don't remember any debate about it. Neither GORE or any of his camp has ever been willing to appear with global warming critics, at public forums or behind closed doors! When he appeared before Congress, he only did it after he got assurances that there would be no counter to his testimony. He even had one of his most vocal critics escorted out of the senate chamber by capital police.
Gore is a pompous, preening, self-rightous, and elitist. He doesn't just talk about global warming, he talks down to you about global warming. Like you are eight fucking years old! And another thing, ...have you noticed that "they don't call it global warming anymore? No, "they" call it "CLIMATE CHANGE". The change just happens to coincide with 100 cities in NORTH AMERICA having the coldest winter on record! The most snowfall on record! The longest winter on record etc!

[boycotteverything]

Abrupt Climate Change is the issue. The US Dept of Defense has been studying its implications since 2003. Here's the report that scared the shit out of anyone with a functioning brain. http://www.gbn.com/articles/pdfs/Abrupt%20Climate%20Change%20February%202004.pdf

[hp]

Old Al seems to live a life style that doesn't support what he preaches.

[boycotteverything]

can't argue with that.

[skunk]

Climate change is constant. Don't believe the hype from the hypocrites is all I can say. We'll be fine, we just need to cut our pollution.

[Alessandra]

q]zfGmf8L3-z0q]

IM SUPER CEREAL, MANBEARPIG EXISTS~

[skunk]

He's soooper something, that's for sure.

[boycotteverything]

Climate change is constant. Don't believe the hype from the hypocrites is all I can say. We'll be fine, we just need to cut our pollution.
Have you read that DOD report I linked to? It's an eye opener. I think regardless of what we do it's too late. Keep in mind that it was prepared in 2003. Six years ago.

[skunk]

I'm familiar with all the arguments as I've been to a pro-climate change university the past 3 years. I've also taken a people in nature seminar where the teacher and ta were absolutely convinced anthropocentric climate change is going to kill us all.

I used to be on the global warming band wagon, but now it seems less likely. I'm not suggesting we continue polluting at same rate (quite the contrary). I just don't think we have as much control over the planet as we'd like to think.

We're coming out of an mini ice age into a slightly warming period, and in all likelihood we're going to be thrust into an actual ice age. Why worry when its really beyond our control? Save yourself.

[boycotteverything]

i'm not worrying but forever curious. read the damned report. you'll love it. guarantee.

[skunk]

Its saved for reading later.

[Ima Nasshole]

It's about fucking time! I've had it with this Al Gore fuck too. My son came home from school crying about the extinction of the polar bears a couple of weeks ago so I played him a youtube video of a Polar Bear tearing the shit out of a woman at some zoo, fixed him right up. But this pompas fuck Gore has been so widely accepted as the global warming guru that he's even received a fucking Nobel Prize for it. Learjets and carbon credits? Fuck him!


By the way Witch Hunt, welcome to Amkon! Now fuck off, I have work to do!

[boycotteverything]

Fuck him!enjoy. i'll take a pass.

[Ima Nasshole]

Fuck him!enjoy. i'll take a pass.
That surprises me, I always figured you for the caboose on the liberal gravy train.

[skunk]

The correct terminology is "bottom".

[boycotteverything]

Fuck him!enjoy. i'll take a pass.
That surprises me, I always figured you for the caboose on the liberal gravy train.No gravy here. Compassion? Yes.

[WarlordZeroOne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP1Q-0fdkWI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP1Q-0fdkWI

Here ta a look at this for Global warming.there was one on here for over 1 hour and has been removed.

[FancyFree]

hi there and welcome! :)

[WarlordZeroOne]

Hi Jessica,hows the arm a little better i hope.

[Alessandra]

lol Warlord, if your nose went any further, you'd be eating her out. :lol:

[Lexion]

lol Warlord, if your nose went any further, you'd be eating her out. :lol:


OMNOMNOMNOM

Wait. This tastes like shit.

Grinning,
Lex

[Cogburn]

First off, the obligatory info:
I'm new here, s/w/m in the USA, 40 and trying to become single!
Trying?

My friend, if you're still trying, you're doing it wrong.

www.eroticmp.com (http://www.eroticmp.com)

[WITCH HUNT]

I have seen the major points of the D.o.D. study used in forums about global warming and it is scarey. Not as scarey as the one about over-population, or Russian black-market nukes, or Mexican drug cartels gaining a foot-hold in American police departments. All I am saying is that gore is a douche! Before we implement the largest tax increase in history that will all but destroy the American economy, we should at least know the cause of it! The real cause of it. Here is a hint; has anyone been paying attention to the solar cycle lately? How about the magnetic field of the Earth? What about the temperture rise on the inner planets? NO, just cars and cow farts, huh? F#@K ME!!!!!!!!

Listening to Al Gore about global warming is like letting Micheal Jackson babysit your kids. Eventually, Your kids will hate!

[WITCH HUNT]

You don't understand, Cogburn, She won't take no for an answer! I have dumped her 4 times, slept with her sister, ditched her at concerts, she's still there! Good god man, I AM AFRAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cogburn]

You don't understand, Cogburn, She won't take no for an answer! I have dumped her 4 times, slept with her sister, ditched her at concerts, she's still there! Good god man, I AM AFRAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Really?

Dude, if that's the case you've got this all wrong.

Marry her.

[pack3tg0st]

Cog.... you're missing the important question here...

Witch Hunt...

Is she hot?

[Cogburn]

Cog.... you're missing the important question here...

Witch Hunt...

Is she hot?
If she doesn't care if you fuck her sister the better question is "Can she cook?"

[Ima Nasshole]

After you fuck her sister ask her to blow you, then ask her if it tasted familiar? If she says it does, marry both of them!

[skunk]

If you want her out of your life so bad, a donkey punch should do it.

[pack3tg0st]

Ok... You're going to need a burlap sack, shovel, a gallon of bleach and some Lye...

oh wait...

What if you ask her to re-create two girls one cup?

That should make her run for the hills...

If not... video tape it...

U better post it on AMKON though...

[FancyFree]

lol Warlord, if your nose went any further, you'd be eating her out. :lol:



:lol:


and my arm is ok, same old shit, another crappy few weeks of this lol But thx for asking WL :)

[WarlordZeroOne]

Thanx alessandra. i live on a different continent,and just being a nice person,but i am finding out some AmKon friends do not like NICE people,and i do not include you as one of the unfriendly,OK,and anyway how are you 2,i might eat out with both of you. lol.

[Bitchkoma]

i live on a different continent,and just being a nice person,but i am finding out some AmKon friends do not like NICE people

That's not true. I like nice people. But people are generally not nice, and the anonymity of the internets only magnifies it. So I become jaded and apathetic.

Kinda relates to how I now feel about climate change.

I used to really feel we could avert the disaster. But the more I read on the science behind it and compare against the efforts we've come up against it, the more I realize that we can probably only brace against the worst effects. And then the more I read about some of the efforts we've come up to brace against it, the more I realize that it's not so much a genuine effort to brace against it, but more of an effort to profit off of it. But this is the world we live in. We could avoid the most extreme effects if we reduce CO2 output to 20% below 1990 levels by the year 2020, but the top polluters will not commit to that. Why would they? The upcoming chaos is a good way to stimulate new technologies. Chaos always does that for necessity is the mother of invention. Many will perish, but whatever. That's part of the plan. Reduce the population to a more manageable size.

Basically I think that everything is leading up to that. The Great Cull and the rise of the One World Government. They will get there by any and all means possible. Climate change is just one of the methods they can employ besides war and state/religious propaganda. In fact I'd say climate change can make it easier to get there, what with how it will lead to water wars. War is good for business.

Note that I don't necessarily believe that the people in power are actively trying to reach to the point where a One World Government is inevitable, but from their actions, I see that it is inevitable that that day will arise. That day when someone will just come along and see that everything is in place and think 'hey, I can make a power-grab right here' and just seize it like a fur seal seizing an idle penguin from behind.

[WITCH HUNT]

Yeah, she can cook and yes she is hot. So is her sister. She is also co-dependent, and clingy. Man that whole family is nuts. I once asked her to have a threesome with a member of her family thinking she would be revolted, no luck. She said great, her brother has always thought I was cute! WTF!!!!!

This is what I get for messing around with a 26 year old virgin.

[WarlordZeroOne]

You have made a good point Bitchkoma, you will be right one day regarding one world government, i have also found all the AmKonites seem to have a good solid Brainy head,from reading the the answers in the Topics, my dad once said to me and i quote " A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men " and its true,the amount of times i have pissed myself with laughing at some of the replys, to the topics, AmKon is the BEST site i have ever been on,and i like ALL the people whether they are right or wrong WTF who cares its a good debate. :D

[Cogburn]

Yeah, she can cook and yes she is hot. So is her sister. She is also co-dependent, and clingy. Man that whole family is nuts. I once asked her to have a threesome with a member of her family thinking she would be revolted, no luck. She said great, her brother has always thought I was cute! WTF!!!!!

This is what I get for messing around with a 26 year old virgin.
Still waiting for that downside....

[skunk]

Great post BK.

[Alessandra]

lol. I only made that comment because every time I see you post in a thread that Jessica's post in, you usually just compliment her. I have as of yet to see you compliment anyone else. I'm not unfriendly. You just refuse to even be friendly to me, so I just 'seem' unfriendly to you. G'day.

[WarlordZeroOne]

Alessandra i presume you are saying i have been unfriendly 2 u please tell me when and where, you have my undivided attention and i am not being sarcastic towards you,i am Genuinely curious. :)

[Alessandra]

let me try to read and comprehend your run on sentences first :lol:

I'm kidding man, don't throw a shit fit.

[WarlordZeroOne]

won't throw a fit, love you 2. :)

[WITCH HUNT]

"Dude, if that's the case you've got this all wrong.
Marry her."

I Think you might be on to something, in a round about way! I was re-reading your post and it hit me. It's not her....... it's me,...IT'S ME! I am the fucked up one, not her. I am the one with commitment and intimacy issues, the fear of being tied down. Fuck, it all makes sense now. That makes a break-up even more necessary! For her own happiness and well-being more than my own!

Being a husband and a father is an awesome responsibility. We as a society think so little about it because it we believe it to be a right. Something you are entitled to. Instead of being the steward of a family, it's like being able to vote. Do it when you want, it doesn't matter.

I grew up without a father, and it sucked ass! Years later he made contact with me and apoligized. He said the pressure was too great for him to deal with, and that I would be better off without him. He was right,....... and she will be better off without me.

P.S. Al Gore is still an ASS HAT

[skunk]

Do you really want to be the asshole who left your kids fatherless?

[boycotteverything]

well- at least al gore never did that.

[WITCH HUNT]

Skunk wrote: "Do you really want to be the asshole who left your kids fatherless?"

I don't have any kids. When I said that fatherhood was an awesome responsibility, I meant huge or giant. not as in wonderful. I admire the guys that can do that though. I just know that I can't and do not want to let a wife or kids down the way I was.

[WITCH HUNT]

No need for a reply, I am just fucking with somebody!

28, 2009 5:55 am US
Central Chicago Sees Coldest July In 67 Years Average Temperature Only 68.9 DegreesCHICAGO (CBS) ?
Emily Nunn


Have you left your air conditioner in the closet this summer, and worn long pants more often than shorts? If so, you may not be surprised to find out that Chicago is seeing its coldest July in more than 65 years.

The National Weather Service says 2009 has seen the coldest July since the official recording station was moved away from the lakefront in 1942. The average temperature this month in Chicago has been a mere 68.9 degrees.

Even in the years before 1942, when the National Weather Service recorded temperatures at the cooler lakefront, there are only three years that had colder Julys through the 26th.

There have also been far more days than usual with high temperatures less than 80 degrees this year. In 2009, there were 13 days where the temperature did not exceed 80 degrees. Only three Julys in the past 67 years have had more days in Chicago with highs less than 80 – there were 18 such days in 1992, and 14 in 1996 and 2000.

We have also failed to reach 90 degrees at any time this month.

But the good news is that homeowners this summer have been seeing a big break on their electric bills. Air conditioning usage, according to ComEd earlier this month, is way down from last year and has saved residents an average of $50 since June, compared with last year.

In addition to the mild weather, Com Ed's cost of power was also down 9 percent as of July 17, a savings passed on to you. Your natural gas price has been down even more, 27 percent. Peoples Gas and North Shore Gas estimate a typical home customer will pay $500 less this year than last year.

(© MMIX, CBS Broadcasting Inc

[boycotteverything]

Tell that to Texas.

[hp]

Tell that to Texas.

It's been 100 or more with a couple of exceptions, every day since the middle of June. This not normal.

[boycotteverything]

Thomas Malthus identified the problem 200 years ago. Over-population, over- production and over-consumption will inevitably destroy the planet. All Al Gore did was revive this basic truth and bring it to the front page. It's been a long on-ramp since Malthus published his theory but we've arrived at last on desolation expressway. Can it really be that we're too stupid to see that? It appears so...

[center:5lytc0q5]http://www.nndb.com/people/250/000024178/malthus.jpg[inmg=:5lytc0q5]http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/al%2520gore.jpg[/inmg:5lytc0q5][/center:5lytc0q5]
[center:5lytc0q5]You don't have to be a weatherman...[/center:5lytc0q5]

[WITCH HUNT]

"Thomas Malthus identified the problem 200 years ago. Over-population, over- production and over-consumption will inevitably destroy the planet. All Al Gore did was revive this basic truth and bring it to the front page. It's been a long on-ramp since Malthus published his theory but we've arrived at last on desolation expressway. Can it really be that we're too stupid to see that? It appears so..."

Al BORE doesn't care about over-population. His company stands to make billions on carbon credits, not birth control. Do you really think a liberal will talk frankly about population control for the third world? Which is where the population is exploding by the way! They would be labeled as racist and elitist if they did, public opinion would plummet and as we all know liberals can't stand low poll numbers!

Overpopulation is the greatest threat to human survival, it is the root cause of all the problems we face. Not carbon dioxide, as global warming alarmists say. Every government study, every university study and every think tank study point to pver-population. In a nut shell, OVER-POPULATION leads to OVER-CONSUMPTION which leads to OVER-PRODUCTION which leads to dwindling resources which eventually leads to large scale die offs, ..... whether by disease, pollution, famine or war.

History is full of people who have tried to make this point. It is one that needs to be addressed on a global scale. But when Al Bore talks, people do not listen. Every day more and more people start to question the science behind global warming, and not talk about over-population.

By the way, you have never had a heat wave in Texas? What about a drought? Ever? EVER? Really!?!?!?!

[Cogburn]

... and now we've entered the fantastic nether world of "human pollution causes global warming" ...

... then someone whips out the solar system study that shows that all the planets in the solar system are currently warming ...

... and then Al Gore is back to being a dipshit again.

[WITCH HUNT]

"... and then Al Gore is back to being a dipshit again."

HALLE LOU YA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[boycotteverything]

In a nut shell, OVER-POPULATION leads to OVER-CONSUMPTION which leads to OVER-PRODUCTION which leads to dwindling resources which eventually leads to large scale die offs, ..... whether by disease, pollution, famine or war.That's simply a restatement of my original comment. So I'd have to say we're in agreement here. And were it not for Al Gore the issue might never have been so intensely considered on an international basis. Climate change is settled science for any scientists not kept by the Corporate class. It would be wise to not allow your personal disdain for the messenger to color your views of the message.

[Bitchkoma]

It would be wise to not allow your personal disdain for the messenger to color your views of the message.

That's why I say FUCK AL GORE. Instead of looking at the science, people are looking at his hypocrisy. One step forward two steps back.

[pack3tg0st]

wait... I thought there was an amkon policy against gratuitous Gore?

[boycotteverything]

It would be wise to not allow your personal disdain for the messenger to color your views of the message.

That's why I say FUCK AL GORE. Instead of looking at the science, people are looking at his hypocrisy. One step forward two steps back.Well- in that case- fuck Malthus, too. As the old Chinese used to say, "Once you have the bear you no-longer need the trap."

[Bitchkoma]

Malthus had the luck of being born in an era where there wasn't rampant anti-intellectualism. So his hypocrisies are forgiven.

[WITCH HUNT]

I have never disagreed with anyone about overpopulation. I have been screaming about it from the rooftops for at least 20 years, even though people laughed at me. The DoD has been warning about the results of over-population since the 1950's. My whole thing with these global warming nut jobs is that they are trying to cure a symptom of the disease and not the cause of the disease. They are clouding the issue with erroneous facts, unsupported suppositions and outright lies. It is not a settled science. It is not accepted fact. It is a supposition put forth by people with delusions of grandeur, who refuse to debate the facts. When Al Bore said this year that the debate is over, He lit the fuse on a shit-storm. Scientists from every discipline started to really take apart his whole argument. Since his whole arguement hinged on carbon dioxide, it was over pretty quick. Yet, alot of people will still believe what ever Al says and as long as people keep talking about co2, millions of people will continue to go hungry in this world. Resources will be depleted and generals will gather in their masses, just like witches at black masses. OH LORD YEAH!

Carbon dioxide has been proven to NOT drive climate! But if you want to believe that cars and cow farts are going to be the end of human civilization by all means do your part. GO GREEN! I am going to eat steak!

[Bitchkoma]

Carbon dioxide has been proven to NOT drive climate!

[citation needed]

Preferably from a peer-reviewed journal, and not somebody's blog.

[boycotteverything]

rampant anti-intellectualismAh- methinks there's the rub. I like to term it, 'proactive stupidity.'

GO GREEN! I am going to eat steak!
Enjoy.

[WITCH HUNT]

[citation needed]

"Preferably from a peer-reviewed journal, and not somebody's blog"

REALLY! Do I really need to go through all that to let you know that the SUN drives our climate and not co2? What's next, am I going to have to search peer-reviewed journals to find proof that fire is hot or that water is wet!?!?!?!?

I have something for you to look up, what percentage of co2 in the atmosphere is man-made? Now I can tell you but when you find out how little that number is, you are going to have a frakking epiphany. And I don't want to spoil that for you.

OOP'S, one more thing. When you search through Al's studies, make sure you quote something from 2008 or later. Peer-review has cast serious doubt about the way some of the numbers were used. So much so that good old Al has had to put some distance between them and himself. That's the reason he went from saying global warming to climate change.

[boycotteverything]

What's next, am I going to have to search peer-reviewed journals to find proof that fire is hot or that water is wet!?!?!?!?I take exception to that assertion. You have a source?

[WarlordZeroOne]

Would love to have Al Gore on AmKon for 4 hours and watch how you lot Screw him upside down and inside out,wonder how he would feel then about his LIFE. C'mon Al sign up to AmKon,they all LOVE Fresh Meat. don't ya. lol

[Bitchkoma]

[citation needed]

"Preferably from a peer-reviewed journal, and not somebody's blog"

REALLY! Do I really need to go through all that to let you know that the SUN drives our climate and not co2?

Oh. Ok. I'll take your word for it. It has to be only one thing and one thing only, huh?

I don't have time to waste on absolutist fools. I have some ass to tap.

[Cogburn]

Would love to have Al Gore on AmKon for 4 hours and watch how you lot Screw him upside down and inside out,wonder how he would feel then about his LIFE. C'mon Al sign up to AmKon,they all LOVE Fresh Meat. don't ya. lol
I wanna watch BE troll Al Gore.

[skunk]

Fresh meat usually squeal like piglets the first time. Then they start to like it.

:pound:

[boycotteverything]

Actually, rather than shit on, Al ought to be celebrated for popularizing the issue of consumption driven climate change. Wait- I guess he was- with a Nobel prize.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21262661/

[skunk]

IF he wasn't such a hypocrite and douche bag I'd agree with you. Huh, maybe that's why you idolize the man so much.

[boycotteverything]

we all have feet of clay- but just a very few make a difference in the world. i don't 'idolize' the guy- but certainly credit him with important contributions to humanity.

[skunk]

Well, he did invent the internets.

[Cogburn]

That's an equivalent argument to saying Hitler brought focus to the issue of antisemitism.

Taking bets on the Nobel nomination?

[Bitchkoma]

The Nobel Peace Prize lost it's relevance after Kissinger got one.

[boycotteverything]

That's an equivalent argument to saying Hitler brought focus to the issue of antisemitism.Substitute Stephen Wise for Hitler and I'd agree with you.

[boycotteverything]

The Nobel Peace Prize lost it's relevance after Kissinger got one.Well there's a point to that. Henry the K is a whole different matter. But- Al Gore shared it with the UN and it was deserved in this case, IMO. I'd love to discuss Kissinger and Nixon with you on a different thread. Couple of really seedy dudes.

[WITCH HUNT]

Rise of the Natural Climate Cycle Deniers
Written by Dr. Roy W. Spencer
Thursday, July 30 2009 13:13

Those who promote the theory that mankind is responsible for global warming have been working for the past 20 years on a revisionist climate history. A history where climate was always in a harmonious state of balance until mankind came along and upset that balance.

The natural climate cycle deniers have tried their best to eliminate the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age from climate data records by constructing the uncritically acclaimed and infamous “hockey stick” of global temperature variations (or non-variations) over the last one- to two-thousand years.

Before being largely discredited by a National Academies review panel, this ‘poster child’ for global warming was heralded as proof of the static nature of the climate system, and that only humans had the power to alter it.

While the panel was careful to point out that the hockey stick might be correct, they said that the only thing science could say for sure is that it has been warmer lately than anytime in the last 400 years. Since most of those 400 years was during the Little Ice Age, I would say this is a good thing. It’s like saying this summer has been warmer than any period since…last fall.

These deniers claim that the Medieval Warm Period was only a regional phenomenon, restricted to Europe. Same for the Little Ice Age. Yet when a killer heat wave occurred in France in 2003, they hypocritically insisted that this event had global significance, caused by anthropogenic ‘global’ warming.

The strong warming that occurred up until 1940 is similarly a thorn in the side of the natural climate cycle deniers, since atmospheric carbon dioxide increases from fossil fuel burning before 1940 were too meager to have caused it. So, the ‘experts’ are now actively working on reducing the magnitude of that event by readjusting some ship measurements of ocean temperatures from that era.

Yet, they would never dream of readjusting the more recent thermometer record, which clearly has localized urban heat island effects that have not yet been removed (e.g., see here and here). As Dick Lindzen of MIT has pointed out, it is highly improbable that every adjustment the climate revisionists ever make to the data should always just happen to be in the direction of agreeing with the climate models.

Of course, global warming has indeed occurred…just as global cooling has occurred before, too. While the global warming ‘alarmists’ claim we ‘skeptics’ have our heads stuck in the sand about the coming climate catastrophe, they don’t realize their heads are stuck in the sand about natural climate variability. Their repeated referrals to skeptic’s beliefs as “denying global warming” is evidence of either their dishonesty, or their stupidity.

The climate modelers’ predictions of the coming global warming Armageddon is of a theoretical event in the distant future, created by mathematical climate models, and promoted by scientists and politicians who have nothing to lose since it will be decades before they are proved wrong. They profess the utmost confidence in these theoretical predictions, yet close their eyes and ears to the natural rhythms exhibited by nature, both in the living and non-living realms, in the present, and in the previously recorded past.

They readily admit that cycles exist in weather, but can not (or will not) entertain the possibility that cycles might occur in climate, too. Every change the natural cycle deniers see in nature is inevitably traced to some evil deed done by humans. They predictably prognosticate such things as, “If this trend continues, the Earth will be in serious trouble”. To them behavior of nature is simple, static, always in-balance – if not sacred…in a quasi-scientific sort of way, of course.

They can not conceive of nature changing all by itself, even though evidence of that change is all around us. Like the more activist environmentalists, their romantic view of a peaceful, serene natural world ignores the stark reality that most animals on the Earth are perpetually locked in a life-or-death struggle for existence. The balances that form in nature are not harmonious, but unsteady and contentious stalemates — like the Cold War between the United States and the former Soviet Union.

Meanwhile, humans are doing just what the other animals are doing: modifying and consuming their surroundings in order to thrive. The deniers curiously assert that all other forms of life on the planet have the ‘right’ to do this – except humans.

And when the natural cycle deniers demand changes in energy policy, most of them never imagine that they might personally be inconvenienced by those policies. Like Al Gore, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and Leonardo DiCaprio, they scornfully look down upon the rest of humanity for using up the natural resources that they want for themselves.

And the few who freely choose to live such a life then want to deny others the freedom to choose, by either regulating or legislating everyone else’s behavior to conform to their own behavior.

The natural climate cycle deniers’ supposedly impartial science is funded by government research dollars that would mostly dry up if the fears of manmade global warming were to evaporate. With contempt they point at the few million dollars that Exxon-Mobil spent years ago to support a few scientists who maintained a healthy skepticism about the science, while the scientific establishment continues to spent tens of billions of your tax dollars.

So, who has the vested financial interest here?

Even the IPCC in its latest (2007) report admits that most of the warming in the last 50 years might be natural in origin — although they consider it very unlikely, with (in their minds) less than 10% probability. So, where is the 10% of the global warming research budget to study that possibility? It doesn’t exist, because — as a few politicians like to remind us — “the science is settled”.

The natural climate cycle deniers claim to own the moral high ground, because they are saving future generations from the ravages of (theoretical) anthropogenic climate change. A couple of them have called for trials and even executions of scientists who happen to remain skeptical of humanity being guilty of causing climate change.

Yet the energy policies they advocate are killing living, breathing poor people around the world, today. Those who are barely surviving in poverty are being pushed over the edge by rising corn prices (because of ethanol production), and decimated economies from increasing regulation and taxation of carbon based fuels in countries governed by self-righteous elites.

But the tide is turning. As the climate system stubbornly refuses to warm as much as 95% of the climate models say it should be warming, the public is turning skeptical as well. Only time will tell whether our future is one of warming, or of cooling. But if the following average of 18 proxies for global temperatures over the last 2,000 years is any indication, it is unlikely that global temperatures will remain constant for very long

[Bitchkoma]

Predictably, you have no opinion of your own, preferring to regurgitate other people's opinions and see everyone as this or that, black or white. You imbecile, did I suggest that climate doesn't work in cycles at any point?

[Bitchkoma]

Just for clarity, I'm only asking you [Witch Hunt] to provide a citation for your claim that CO2 is not a GHG, despite the fact that hundreds of years of experiments prove otherwise. Nothing more, nothing less. You seem to be under the notion that GH gasses are of no significance, that only the Sun matters, all the while ignoring myriad other factors like the planet's albedo, cloud cover, ocean salinity, to name a few. To me, this kind of thinking is no different from crazy hippies who say we are the only ones responsible for the planet's climate and therefore we should just abandon everything and regress. Fucking absolutists just drive me up the wall.

Al Gore is a cunning bastard. This whole carbon trading idea is a brilliant way of making money out of air, literally. Conveniently, it'll do nothing about other shit that we do that in the grand scheme of things will definitely affect our climate, or at the very least our local environment. Deforestation, crop fertilization methods that release massive amounts of N2O (which is 200 plus times more potent than CO2 as a GHG), night-time air travel.. the list goes on.

[Bitchkoma]

By the way, does anyone know where I can get business research material on carbon offsets and trading in such offsets? It's a brilliant daylight robbery scheme as such as only politicians and crooked bankers can come up with. I'm thinking of robbing First World countries via carbon trading to fund an algae biofuel start-up in my corner of the planet.

[Cogburn]

http://www.chicagoclimatex.com/

[WITCH HUNT]

Bitchkoma Wrote:

"Just for clarity, I'm only asking you [Witch Hunt] to provide a citation for your claim that CO2 is not a GHG"
I never said that. I said that the sun drives climate, not co2. Key word is drives, as in primary or first, the one thing most reponsible for'

"You seem to be under the notion that GH gasses are of no significance,"
No I'm not. I just know how small the percentage of man-made co2 in the atmosphere is, in relation to the total amount! And considering the whole Al Gore industry is based on Man-made co2, it's not a giant leap to call it a scam.

"did I suggest that climate doesn't work in cycles at any point?"
No, but I never accused you of saying that. Dr. Spencers article points out what I have been saying all thread long; That man-made global warming proponents are using intellectually dishonest arguements to make their points. If they were confident in their facts they wouldn't have to.

Look, I said it before and I will say it again: as long as Al Gore keeps talking about co2, real issues and real problems are not going to be addressed. And that is the real danger.

By the way, B K, fucking with you is more fun than poking a blind person with a lit cigarette

[boycotteverything]

as long as Al Gore keeps talking about co2, real issues and real problems are not going to be addressed.And which 'real issues' are being obscured by 'Al Gore's talking about CO2?' Barack Obama's use of a teleprompter?

[Cogburn]

Oh... for starters...
http://isamaras.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/trash-pattern.gif

[boycotteverything]

It's all the same issue. disrespect for life.

[Bitchkoma]

By the way, B K, fucking with you is more fun than poking a blind person with a lit cigarette

Glad I could entertain you :salut:


Anyway:

By the way, does anyone know where I can get business research material on carbon offsets and trading in such offsets? It's a brilliant daylight robbery scheme as such as only politicians and crooked bankers can come up with. I'm thinking of robbing First World countries via carbon trading to fund an algae biofuel start-up in my corner of the planet.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/265/lvkky.jpg

[boycotteverything]

http://isamaras.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/trash-pattern.gif

the same know-nothing fuckwits who would justify pumping noxious smokes into the air clear the paths for dropping plastic shit in the seas. All in the name of progress. the earth indeed has enemies.

[Cogburn]

[vimeo:1e2xiwpr]1773973[/vimeo:1e2xiwpr]

[WITCH HUNT]

B E wrote:
And which 'real issues' are being obscured by 'Al Gore's talking about CO2?
Globally, hunger(too many starving children in this world), resource depletion(especially water), population growth
Locally, homeless vets, sub-standard education, even worse government and Ryan Seacrest.

[boycotteverything]

And exactly how does discussing one given issue prevent consideration of related issues? Surely you can do better than that.

[Bitchkoma]

Screw you guys, I'm going home. Gods damnit I thought this was a thread about Al Gore, yet nobody knows shit about cap & trade. Suck it.

[WITCH HUNT]

I just don't think people have the attention span anymore................ Ugh, what was I saying?

[boycotteverything]

so society is capable of considering just one issue at a time? if that's the case- we're fucked. on the other hand we could save a lot of wasted electrons here cuz we'd only need one thread... good news and bad news, i guess.


Ugh, what was I saying?i think your were blowing Chunks.

[WITCH HUNT]

quote:
"so society is capable of considering just one issue at a time?"

I hate to say it but it looks that way. Society seems to favor the salacious or the sensational. Look at cable news. There is no news there, it seems like its all entertainment. (They are still talking about Micheal Jackson for fuck sake!) Environmental issues are never the lead story. African genocides, Central American coups and new AIDS strains are always behind corruption charges or affairs.

I am just glad that there are forums like this where people can still communicate their ideas and beliefs. Right or wrong, crazy or not, written or spoken, words are the very best validation of the human condition.

P.S. my dog's name is stains, not chunks!

[boycotteverything]

Look at cable news. There is no news there, it seems like its all entertainment. Hell they're just aping Shakespeare- 'all the world's a stage... full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.' News is entertainment in the last analysis. Stains or Chunks- all the same crap in the end. A blow is a blow is a blow...

[skunk]

Screw you guys, I'm going home. Gods damnit I thought this was a thread about Al Gore, yet nobody knows shit about cap & trade. Suck it.

Let's talk about it bitch.

[Bitchkoma]

I don't know much about cap & trade, admittedly. I've only recently signed up to google alerts for those keywords. No details, except it is barely tapped in my country.

[skunk]

This should get you started (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissions_trading).

Pretty much companies or countries are paying people to not pollute so the [polluter] can continue their environmental degradation.

For example, US corporations pay the Costa Ricans to not cut down the rain forests and then say they're "green" because the rain forests are still there.

Its essentially making a business out of carbon sinks like the Amazon, the Oceans, etc.

From the wiki site:

[offsite:1c9qff8m]In effect, the buyer is paying a charge for polluting, while the seller is being rewarded for having reduced emissions by more than was needed.[/offsite:1c9qff8m]

[boycotteverything]

just the simple wisdom cats have known for 40 million years- bury your shit in the neighbor's garden.

[Bitchkoma]

What I mean by I don't know much about carbon trading is that I don't have the bloody contact details for the associations, organizations and whatever regulatory body exists for this industry. I don't think there's much info on that wiki page about that. It's more of a laymen's primer to cap&trade. I want an industrialists' guide to milking this source of money from nothing. Okay, maybe that's too much to ask, but contact details for those orgs I mentioned are what I want. Maybe I can scan the links section of that wiki page :/

[boycotteverything]

Fuck Wiki. Start here for answers and follow the money. There is an operating bourse for carbon credit trading. http://carbonbourse.com/home/

[boycotteverything]

I want an industrialists' guide to milking this source of money from nothing. Okay, maybe that's too much to ask, but contact details for those orgs I mentioned are what I want.It's a member site but sign up is open. Lots of current info. Join up. You'll love it. And remember- learn from your cats.

[skunk]

Carbon Credit: Investopedia (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/carbon_credit.asp)

Carbon Emissions Offset Directory (http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/carbon_offset_wind_credits_carbon_reduction.htm)

Buy carbon credits (http://www.getcarboncreditco2.com/)

[GeneralStriker]

So lemme get this straight. I give some officious committee a suitcase full of really creepy-dirty hundred dollar bills and I get permission to piss in your well? Boy howdy- I'm on that one in a heartbeat! hahahaha I hereby declare that this popsicle stand of a planet is doomed.

[Bitchkoma]

Carbon Emissions Offset Directory (http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/carbon_offset_wind_credits_carbon_reduction.htm)

Excellent link. The others.. meh.


hahahaha I hereby declare that this popsicle stand of a planet is doomed.

Indeed. You have idiots like Witch Hunt who actually believe that GHGs are insignificant. That's why I'm planning to get into this whole carbon trading thing. Might as well make a nice fortune out of this runaway train. Can't beat 'em, join 'em and mug them in broad daylight.*


*Ancient Malay Pirate saying.

[GeneralStriker]

yeah- but witch hunt owns a green house. he likes the shit.

[Bitchkoma]

Perhaps he can sell carbon offsets. Hell.... hey skunk, you've any idea how much carbon a ganja plant sequesters?

[WITCH HUNT]

Sign of the times?

Aug. 09, 2009
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

Political climate for energy policies cools

Poll: Economy outweighs environment

By JENNIFER ROBISON
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
Renewable Energy

Monday's National Clean Energy Summit 2.0 will bring a parade of celebrated public policy experts to Las Vegas to discuss greening the country's economy.

But as leaders including former President Bill Clinton, former Vice President Al Gore and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger encourage investments in alternative energy, their policy prescriptions could face serious headwinds from changing public opinions.


Recent surveys show Americans cooling to global warming, and they're even less keen on environmental policies they believe might raise power bills or imperil jobs. Those sentiments could mean a tougher road ahead for elected officials looking to fund investments in renewable power or install a carbon cap-and-trade system.

"Right now, Americans are more concerned about the economy than the environment," said Frank Newport, editor-in-chief of the Gallup Poll. "The politician who says, 'I'm going to cripple jobs and shut down factories' would be in trouble in this economy."

WHAT THE NUMBERS SAY

Here's what Gallup found: The number of Americans who say the media have exaggerated global warming jumped to a record 41 percent in 2009, up from 35 percent a year ago. The most marked increase came among political independents, whose ranks of doubters swelled from 33 percent to 44 percent. Republican doubters grew from 59 percent to 66 percent, while Democratic skeptics stayed at around 20 percent.

What's more, fewer Americans believe the effects of global warming have started to occur: 53 percent see signs of a hotter planet, down from 61 percent in 2008. Global warming placed last among eight environmental concerns Gallup asked respondents to rank, with water pollution landing the top spot.

Another recent Gallup study found that, for the first time in 25 years of polling, more Americans care about economic growth than the environment. Just 42 percent of people surveyed said the environment takes precedence over growth, while 51 percent asserted expansion carries more weight. That reverses results from 2008, when 49 percent of respondents said the environment was paramount and 42 percent said economic growth came first. In 1985, the poll's first year, 61 percent placed a bigger priority on the environment, while 28 percent ranked economic growth highest.

All those results indicate trends that pose big challenges for the environmental movement, Gallup's researchers concluded. More pointedly, the findings signal potential trouble for policies designed to curb global warming.

"It's a conundrum. You can't just say to those interested in global warming that they need to do a better job of PR because they have been trying so hard," Newport said. "Al Gore won a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts. He made a widely seen movie, and his book sold many copies. Yet, with all that, it hasn't worked. You would have to say that, somehow, they're not getting the message across."

Ask Daniel Weiss, a senior fellow and director of climate strategy at the left-leaning Center for American Progress, why increasing numbers of Americans dispute global warming and place the economy ahead of the environment, and he'll say those findings are wrong.

"I don't accept their premise. I think the Gallup Poll is mistaken," said Weiss, whose organization will send its chief executive officer, former White House Chief of Staff John Podesta, to Monday's clean energy confab. "I would want to look at their questions to see how they got to this place."

Weiss pointed to surveys that contradict Gallup's results. A Pew Environmental Group poll found that 77 percent of voters want lawmakers to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, and 55 percent said efforts to curb global warming will create jobs. Another poll from the National Wildlife Federation found that 55 percent of those polled strongly support a global warming plan that reduces pollution.

But it's not just Gallup that shows flagging concern about global warming. In a July Rasmussen poll, 56 percent said they didn't want to pay higher taxes or utility bills to generate clean energy and fight global warming. A January Pew poll placed global warming last among the top 20 priorities Americans have for 2009. Nos. 1 and 2? The economy and jobs. Even trade policy and lobbyists outranked global warming. And Myron Ebell, director of energy and global warming policy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a libertarian think-tank, pointed to a study from the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association that showed 58 percent of respondents were unwilling to pay more than they currently pay for electricity to combat climate change.

'A HUGE AMOUNT OF SKEPTICISM'

Most observers say the economy is behind changing attitudes.

When people face immediate concerns such as job security, more-distant problems fade into the background, Newport said.

Studies show a strong historical correlation between economic prospects and support for environmental causes. When the economy surges, public support for green initiatives rises, said Jerry Taylor, a senior fellow with the free-market advocate Cato Institute.

"We're in the midst of one of the deepest recessions since the Great Depression, and people suspect environmental policies have price tags that are not inconsequential," Taylor said.

The public's interest in climate change also rises with extreme weather events, and the nation hasn't seen widespread, catastrophic weather since Hurricane Katrina in 2005, Taylor added.

Ebell said he doesn't believe the recession or the weather are eroding public concern about global warming. Rather, he said, publicity over the high cost of green policies in Europe and other regions, as well as indications that those policies haven't yielded results and a 12-year string of stable global temperatures, are changing Americans' minds.

European countries have imposed gasoline taxes of $3 to $4 per gallon to curb consumption, Ebell noted, and the TaxPayers' Alliance in Great Britain estimated that the average British family spends more than $1,200 a year on green charges and levies. Despite such investments, a December report from the United Nations showed that greenhouse gas emissions have grown by almost 10 percent worldwide since 1990, if you control for the emissions-curbing collapse of the Soviet Union and ensuing economic decline in Eastern Europe.

More importantly, said Ebell, the planet's average temperature hasn't risen since 1997, despite a 5 percent gain in the amount of atmospheric carbon dioxide in the same period. Twelve years doesn't make for a long-term trend, Ebell said, but every year that goes by with no increase in average temperatures makes it harder to assert the climate is sensitive to carbon dioxide.

"I think there's a huge amount of skepticism among the public. They've heard all these claims, and now they've been informed that there isn't any recent warming," Ebell said. "The public, without having a lot of information about it, is pretty astute. I think the alarmists are having a hard time making the case for global warming simply because reality is against them and the public has figured it out." (The Competitive Enterprise Institute has taken flak for accepting funding from oil giant ExxonMobil. Ebell said the financing ended several years ago, and the funding source didn't affect the group's policy positions, which were in place before the nonprofit sought the money and have remained intact since the agreement concluded.)

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., responded that the science showing the greenhouse effect on Earth's climate is solid. He pointed to pictures from Sen. Mark Begich, D-Alaska, which reveal the virtual disappearance of a glacier in the past 35 years.

Weiss added that ignoring the environment carries its own costs: The typical household energy bill has risen $1,100 in the past eight years, even without policies to fight global warming.

"Doing nothing has been very costly," he said.

Worse still, agreed Reid and Weiss, eschewing environmental policies hurts the economy. Prominent venture capitalists and executives from Fortune 500 companies such as General Electric say investing in green energy will boost the economy, creating millions of high-tech jobs. Even a policy as simple as retrofitting existing buildings and constructing new buildings according to green standards would bolster the construction sector, as well as reduce waste and pollution, Reid said.

"The country that makes the clean energy technologies of the future is going to be the one that dominates the world economy," Weiss said. "Right now, China, Germany and other economic competitors are ahead of us because we've had eight years of doing nothing. Americans know we must change the way we generate and use energy. The question isn't whether we're going to buy clean energy technologies. The question is whether we're going to buy clean energy technologies made in the United States and marketed overseas, or whether we'll buy them from China and bring them here."

STILL SOME SELLING TO DO

Bringing alternative power sources online and reining in greenhouse gases pose upfront costs, though, because the country's energy infrastructure was built around fossil fuels. Congress has appropriated more than $60 billion for clean energy initiatives in the past year, including $11 billion for a national "smart" electric grid, $5 billion for making homes more efficient and $2 billion to invest in advanced batteries.

Also, the federal Energy Information Administration released a report Wednesday that tallied up the costs of the American Clean Energy and Security Act, the carbon cap-and-trade bill that passed the House of Representatives in May and goes to the Senate for a vote in the fall. The agency's analysis found that the bill would increase the cost of energy, pare economic output, curb purchasing power and cut $432 billion to $1.9 trillion from the nation's gross domestic product by 2030.

And that's where all those polls showing that Americans aren't certain those costs are worth it might begin to matter. With so many surveys revealing that Americans have little appetite for environmental policies that they think could stall economic growth or pinch consumers' budgets, policymakers still have some selling to do, observers say.

Politicians might just need to work harder at educating the public on why they think green policies are important, Newport said.

Other elected officials could end up changing their stands on those policies because, after all, a politician's biggest goal is to keep his job.

"Some people think politicians vote on the merits of an issue," Taylor said. "There might be one here or there who does that, but they're exceptions to the rule. For the most part, politicians are like businessmen, only they're in the business of earning votes. Virtually everything they do is with an eye on how many votes it will get them. And these sorts of surveys tell politicians that votes for cap-and-trade programs are extremely hazardous to their electoral health."

Members of Congress who represent blue states and hold leadership positions in their parties will be safer than those who hail from swing states and enjoy less seniority, Taylor predicted.

Reid vowed Friday to continue his push for clean energy policies, saying that a sound and healthy environment is critical to any prosperous economy, and the Gallup numbers show most Americans continue to believe that the seriousness of global warming has been correctly portrayed or even understated.

"We have a duty to all of our children to make sure we don't let temporary difficulties get in the way of making good choices for their future," he said.

Contact reporter Jennifer Robison at jrobison @reviewjournal.com or 702-380-4512

[WITCH HUNT]

Climate variability, folks.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/74019.html

[WITCH HUNT]

I told you so Sarah! Solar cycles, mother-frickin' solar cycles!

http://www.cjonline.com/news/local/2009-09-20/earth_approaching_sunspot_records

[subdivisions]

Hey Witch! My deployment is over in a couple of weeks! I should have more time to post, wanna do it in here or some where else ?

[Foxtrot Oscar]

Hey Witch! My deployment is over in a couple of weeks! I should have more time to post, wanna do it in here or some where else ?


"Meh" Whatever funboy!

Smite Cherry popped!

and Welcome.

Fox

[KIWI]

Hey Witch! My deployment is over in a couple of weeks! I should have more time to post, wanna do it in here or some where else ?


"Meh" Whatever funboy!

Smite Cherry popped!

and Welcome.

Fox

man-bear-pig is gonna get chu !! :shock:

d]4_ASjFzi7J0d]

[skunk]

Do what here? This is not prison talk.

[WITCH HUNT]

Hey Sarah, did you like the articles?

On a personal note, are you state side yet? How was it this time? Do you have anymore gun camera clips? Does your husband know about us?
I miss you very much!

P.S. IGNORE EVERYONE HERE UNTIL I FINISH. Most people will leave us alone, there is only one real troll here and I think he lost interest in this thread!

[Cogburn]

One real troll?

I bet a shitload of us fake trolls could make up for it.

:)

[WITCH HUNT]

Cogburn, I don't think of you as a troll. Your posts are indicative of a rational, methodical mindset. Your research is first rate and I have never seen you pick a fight. Trolls like to think the they are "clever", are quick to anger be cause they either don't understand or are unwilling to understand. That is not you!

[KIWI]

Cogburn, I don't think of you as a troll. Your posts are indicative of a rational, methodical mindset. Your research is first rate and I have never seen you pick a fight. Trolls like to think the they are "clever", are quick to anger be cause they either don't understand or are unwilling to understand. That is not you!

its cog's doppleganger we have trouble with :lol:

[pack3tg0st]

P.S. IGNORE EVERYONE HERE UNTIL I FINISH. Most people will leave us alone, there is only one real troll here and I think he lost interest in this thread!

:lol:

Do you have any idea what you started by saying that?

:lol:

[pack3tg0st]

anyway, my on Topic Post for this:

Climate change/global warming! whoohoo!

This is one of those situations where the media has been very successful at injecting a little binary opposition to the argument...

It either exists... or it doesn't... or the MSM would like you to believe...

Does climate change exist... Yes! the climate is changing...

Is it our fault? Somewhat!

The earth has been coming out of an ice age for the last seveal thousand years... Coming out of an ice age isn't just a "flick of the switch" type ordeal here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Ice_Age_Temperature.png

To top it off, the trend over the last several million years is one of gradual average temperature increases... granted ice ages and minor/little ice ages have some pretty cold temps... but over millions of years the average temperature has been steadily increasing!

Now... at the same time the earth is naturally warming up according to its past trends... we have measured a sharp increase in CO2 emissions since the industrial revolution by taking samples of glaciers and ice caps...

The earth is gradually warming on its own... thats for sure... and our carbon emissions certainly don't help... but, it is entirely possible that we'd have been doomed even without the industrial revolution and all the pollution we've dumped into our atmosphere...

Now, half of this "Green" stuff is pure bullshit... Take Freon for instance...

OOOOH freon is a huge threat to the ozone layer!! watch out for freon! it'll float up there and wreak havoc!

never mind that freon is 4 times heavier than air... forgot that small detail...

[cartoon]

it is entirely possible that we'd have been doomed even without the industrial revolution and all the pollution we've dumped into our atmosphere...doesn't the fence hurt your ass?

[pack3tg0st]

LOL nah...

Not really on the fence though BE...

Just saying its not as black/white as everyone would like us to believe...

[cartoon]

It's been building for a while. We deny it at our great peril. This is Blake's take on it in 1792:


London by William Blake


I wander thro’ each charter’d street,
Near where the charter’d Thames does flow,
And mark in every face I meet
Marks of weakness, marks of woe.

In every cry of every Man,
In every Infant’s cry of fear,
In every voice, in every ban,
The mind-forg’d manacles I hear.

How the Chimney-sweeper’s cry
Every black'ning Church appalls;
And the hapless Soldier’s sigh
Runs in blood down Palace walls.

But most thro’ midnight streets I hear
How the youthful Harlot’s curse
Blasts the new-born Infant’s tear
And blights with plagues the Marriage hearse.

The despoliation of the earth that began with the Industrial Revolution has never paused for even a second. It's, above all else, an ethical conundrum just as Blake tells us it is. We are both a part of nature and a consumer of Gaia. That this is true is not in question. It is the necessary condition of our survival as a species. But where's the balance? Certainly not on the fence- (at least in accordance with William Blake.) How many plastic sacks need to be floating at sea, how much vile crud must be burned in our little cars, and how many forests must we pulp to blow our noses and wipe our asses? And how many messengers need we string-up to maintain our fantasies? Witch Hunt and his ilk are the greedy and trivial denialists who stand between the living and a sustainable life for our children. Their gods are the jowly hogs in corporate boardrooms.

[pack3tg0st]

Like I said...

Not on the fence

Not denying we're fucking shit up

Just sayign its not as black and white as they tell us...

and yes... some of the stuff they spew out is sheer bullshit.

Green is a buzzword.

Nothing like fear mongoring to get the public to satisfy the wishes of some rich fuck somewhere...

I remember when I was a kid they told us to never use paper bags... only plastic bags... save trees ya know!

I'm sure the plastics lobby was thrilled at getting that one out there...

nevermind that plastics don't biodegrade...

[cartoon]

I remember when I was a kid they told us to never use paper bags... only plastic bags... save trees ya know!the dialectic of ecology has reached at least one undeniable truth: either bring your own fucking bag or stuff the crap in your shorts. Progress. And rest assured that my rejoinder was not aimed at you but rather at Witch Hunt and his know-nothing cabal- with one brief exception: yes- I do see you as a fence sitter. We have a Malthusian knot that requires a radical and proactive unraveling. The last thing we need to do is shoot the messenger. Don't be hiding behind the classic dodge of 'perfection.' There's no such thing for us. But we can avail ourselves of a native sense of ethical direction. In any revolution either choose a side or rot in the middle.

[Cogburn]

Don't tear up the Earth?

It's 2009.

This goes in Rat's Master's of the Obvious thread.

Global warming need not apply.

[GeneralStriker]

If only it were that simple. It may be obvious to us but it's a raging ego stomper for the insipid protoplasm sacks who populate most of this popsicle stand of an empire.

[Cogburn]

<shrug>

Same folks that for whom the wisdom of "do not shit where you eat" is lost.

As a wise man once said, the arc of history is long...

[GeneralStriker]

every arc has an ending point- even his.

[pack3tg0st]

We have a Malthusian knot that requires a radical and proactive unraveling.

Is it really radical to follow along with everyone else? I've explained to you before how I think the entire "green" movement is completely bogus... Its all about maintaining our gluttonous over-consumption of everything... only finding more "earth friendly" ways to feed our rabid hunger for excess...

Its bullshit.

The 'real' solution is more radical than what either side has proposed: Complete and drastic change in lifestyle...

Go ahead and be "earth friendly" with your cloth bags at the supermarket... make sure you fill that fucker up to the top with food wrapped in plastic that's trucked/flown/shipped in from thousands of miles away...


The last thing we need to do is shoot the messenger. Don't be hiding behind the classic dodge of 'perfection.' There's no such thing for us. But we can avail ourselves of a native sense of ethical direction. In any revolution either choose a side or rot in the middle.

If one feels that both sides of said "revolution" have it completely wrong, there is nothing wrong with refusing to "sheeple" along with either side...

[WITCH HUNT]

Hey pack, I didn't start anything. A couple of people in here can't accept the idea of some people having an exact opposite viewpoint of their own. They aren't smarter or wiser than anyone else, they are just intolerent.

Every generation has a green movement. I remember Iron Eyes Cody, paddeling his canoe down the Hudson River, standing on the shore crying. It worked, people became more aware about littering. That was a brilliant campaign. I take exception at the alarmist, we're all gonna die! direction that AL GORE is using.

For the record; we need to curb pollution, conserve our natural resources and develope alternative energy sources. However I don't think we should put 1,000,000,000 people out of work to do it! Or scare the shit out of eight year olds

[skunk]

Al gore is an hypocrite (read: uses way too much god damn energy in his house to say shit about the rest of us), asshat (no explanation necessary), and douche bag (manbearpig). He is a detriment to the environmental movement and a disgrace to humanity.

Fuck, even Billary thought Gore was a looney tune (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/09/clinton-gore-i-thought-he-was-neverland) and that's saying something!

[WITCH HUNT]

One more thing. Everyone wants to talk about global warming, but no one wants to talk about the Oceans. Over-fishing is a greater threat to human existance than cars and cow farts, but there isn't a profit to be made keeping the Japanese from fishing off the coast of SCOTLAND!

[Cogburn]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_16zt9ZH0eqY/SMbTUdp13qI/AAAAAAAABPc/cGe4Pq9aE9o/s400/cryingindianfullhead80phs3.jpg

Smite.

WH... Post more.

[century]

This is why Al Gore has been damaged for life:
http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-12-18/1261095468159.jpg

[WITCH HUNT]

This is why Al Gore has been damaged for life:
http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-12-18/1261095468159.jpg

My eyes, they're bleeding!

[WITCH HUNT]

This is why Al Gore has been damaged for life:
http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-12-18/1261095468159.jpg

My eyes, they're bleeding!

[GeneralStriker]

My daughter emailed me this link to Tom Friedman's latest column in the Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/opinion/17friedman.html?ref=opinion). It's worth reading before you gloat.
Of the festivals of nonsense that periodically overtake American politics, surely the silliest is the argument that because Washington is having a particularly snowy winter it proves that climate change is a hoax and, therefore, we need not bother with all this girly-man stuff like renewable energy, solar panels and carbon taxes. Just drill, baby, drill.
Flat-earth ignoramuses are everywhere.

[Cogburn]

1) Avoid the term “global warming.” I prefer the term “global weirding,” because that is what actually happens as global temperatures rise and the climate changes. The weather gets weird. The hots are expected to get hotter, the wets wetter, the dries drier and the most violent storms more numerous.
Unsupported, anecdotal bullshit.

2) Historically, we know that the climate has warmed and cooled slowly, going from Ice Ages to warming periods, driven, in part, by changes in the earth’s orbit and hence the amount of sunlight different parts of the earth get. What the current debate is about is whether humans — by emitting so much carbon and thickening the greenhouse-gas blanket around the earth so that it traps more heat — are now rapidly exacerbating nature’s natural warming cycles to a degree that could lead to dangerous disruptions.
WRONG! Glacier studies in 2009 showed that the temperature has changed drastically from one extreme to another within a single decade.

3) Those who favor taking action are saying: “Because the warming that humans are doing is irreversible and potentially catastrophic, let’s buy some insurance — by investing in renewable energy, energy efficiency and mass transit — because this insurance will also actually make us richer and more secure.” We will import less oil, invent and export more clean-tech products, send fewer dollars overseas to buy oil and, most importantly, diminish the dollars that are sustaining the worst petro-dictators in the world who indirectly fund terrorists and the schools that nurture them.

4) Even if climate change proves less catastrophic than some fear, in a world that is forecast to grow from 6.7 billion to 9.2 billion people between now and 2050, more and more of whom will live like Americans, demand for renewable energy and clean water is going to soar. It is obviously going to be the next great global industry.Utilizing more renewable resources is just common sense independent of any discussion on global warming, although climate change sycophants would have you believe otherwise.

But hey, we don't expect any better from you anymore, anyways.

[GeneralStriker]

You've got the charm of an open sewer.

[Cogburn]

Given such sewers are the primary intellectual trough from which you draw your wellspring of information, I'm unsurprised at the comparison.

[WITCH HUNT]

Flat-earth ignoramuses are everywhere.

Why is it that the left are the first ones to use insults in a conversation? Whenever someone doubts something like MMGW, the left lose their shit and start using terms like anti-intellectural and flat-earthers. When the facts of their point of view start to be disproven, they become more dismissive and venomous in their responses.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy reading their posts, but their arguements are becoming more and more childish and irrelevent. Their refusal to address the mistakes and misdeeds by GW proponants speak volumes about how much they really believe in it. All too ofton they resort to name calling.

It looks like Al Gore is losing!

[skunk]

What does being a "leftist" have to do with the price of eggs? Both sides make broad generalizations, completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

As for the insults thrown by the "leftists", its obvious they have nothing else to say if they have to resort to calling everyone else know-nothings. If the message was so clear, and spoke for itself, there would be no reason to denounce the disbelievers/freethinkers as morons because the truth would be self-evident.

A small minority wants to continue our rampant destruction of our planet, and yet the global warming proponents cannot see the forest for the trees.

If some of them stopped acting like such pricks, and looked around every once in a while, they'd realize there are a heck of a lot more people wanting to heal our planet, regardless of global warming/cooling/climate change.

[hp]

If the message was so clear, and spoke for itself, there would be no reason to denounce the disbelievers/freethinkers as morons because the truth would be self-evident.

In this type of issue, that's almost always the heart of the problem, no matter which side a person stands. But then if it is clear cut the morons are pretty obvious to everyone but them slef.

[WITCH HUNT]

If some of them stopped acting like such pricks, and looked around every once in a while, they'd realize there are a heck of a lot more people wanting to heal our planet, regardless of global warming/cooling/climate change.

AMEN!

As long as they continue to do this :fucku2:, real problems continue to be overshadowed by the partisan hackery, er, debate!

[GeneralStriker]

With love from Emily-



I heard a fly buzz when I died;
The stillness round my form
Was like the stillness in the air
Between the heaves of storm.
The eyes beside had wrung them dry,
And breaths were gathering sure
For that last onset, when the king
Be witnessed in his power.
I willed my keepsakes, signed away
What portion of me I
Could make assignable,-and then
There interposed a fly,
With blue, uncertain, stumbling buzz,
Between the light and me;
And then the windows failed, and then
I could not see to see.

[skunk]

:facepalm:

[Cogburn]

http://eureka7.ru/screenshots/holland_facepalm.jpg

[Bitchkoma]

AMEN!

As long as they continue to do this :fucku2:, real problems continue to be overshadowed by the partisan hackery, er, debate!

It is my observation that the partisan hackery only originates from America. Rest of the world was fine with the idea of CO2 as a GHG and human excess output of CO2 can conceivably lead to problems ergo we should reduce output if possible. Then your politicians took the torch and shit went to hell. Another this or that issue that shouldn't even have been an issue to begin with but was made to be an issue so political hacks can divide and conquer or build an issue of contention. Fucking joke.

[Raptor Jesus]

http://www.cultofmac.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/DoubleFacePalm.jpg

[Cogburn]

It is my observation that the partisan hackery only originates from America. Rest of the world was fine with the idea of CO2 as a GHG and human excess output of CO2 can conceivably lead to problems ergo we should reduce output if possible. Then your politicians took the torch and shit went to hell. Another this or that issue that shouldn't even have been an issue to begin with but was made to be an issue so political hacks can divide and conquer or build an issue of contention. Fucking joke.

... or one could say that it began with the falsified data from the IPCC that the entire world bought on face value, but whatever floats your boat.

[Bitchkoma]

Look Cog, all I said was that CO2 is a GHG and too much of it produced by us logically would be bad. That's also what the rest of the world agreed upon. And this was wayyyyy before your IPCC, wayyy before carbon credits. So if you wanna be disingenuous about it... whatever floats YOUR boat.

[Gunter]

America comprises 7% of the world population and yet consumes one third of the world's resources. Guys like this Cog character would love to see this state of affairs preserved. Simple as that. All of his arguments concerning climate change are premised on retaining that essentially unfair status quo and can be dismissed out of hand as disingenuous and self-serving. The rest of the world sees right through his greed.

[Gunter]

...there interposed a fly

[hp]

America comprises 7% of the world population and yet consumes one third of the world's resources

Which explains why the need for the most powerful military machine - to keep the one-third.

[GeneralStriker]

exactly my point

[skunk]

America comprises 7% of the world population and yet consumes one third of the world's resources. Guys like this Cog character would love to see this state of affairs preserved. Simple as that. All of his arguments concerning climate change are premised on retaining that essentially unfair status quo and can be dismissed out of hand as disingenuous and self-serving. The rest of the world sees right through his greed.

How can you interpret his statement that way? Where has he said (or anyone here for that matter) we should continue polluting the way we do?

Lay off the spiked kool aid.

[hp]

Al Gore's house is to carbon footprints as Rush Limbaugh's girth is to Twiggy.

[GeneralStriker]

Please take some guidance from this- if you're capable.
It is my observation that the partisan hackery only originates from America. Rest of the world was fine with the idea of CO2 as a GHG and human excess output of CO2 can conceivably lead to problems ergo we should reduce output if possible. Then your politicians took the torch and shit went to hell. Another this or that issue that shouldn't even have been an issue to begin with but was made to be an issue so political hacks can divide and conquer or build an issue of contention. Fucking joke.

[skunk]

Ok so basically you have no original thought of your own, you just like to attack people you don't like, even if what they said makes sense.

[GeneralStriker]

only a bootlicker like you would find sense in the Coque's argument.

[hp]

Something should be done - issue
Politicians made it an issue - bad? but it should be per #1

Saying politicians made it into a corporate profit plan would be reasonable.

Let's see - we need to reduce. If I reduce then what I don't pollute can be passed to you so you can pollute. Net lowering = zero. But you pay for my non pollution so someone can get some money for nothing.

This is the non sense in it and the great idea. Payments for destroying the earth.

[skunk]

Exactly.

[GeneralStriker]

Something should be done - issue
Politicians made it an issue - bad? but it should be per #1

Saying politicians made it into a corporate profit plan would be reasonable.

Let's see - we need to reduce. If I reduce then what I don't pollute can be passed to you so you can pollute. Net lowering = zero. But you pay for my non pollution so someone can get some money for nothing.

This is the non sense in it and the great idea. Payments for destroying the earth.
The objective is to make 'pollution' a prohibitively expensive activity. I haven't seen a more workable idea than the bourse concept. It harnesses market laws that have historically been effective in economics, specifically 'supply and demand.' Like all schemes devised by humans it contains some flaws and inequalities. So?

[hp]

The price of doing business can and is passed on to the consumer, either way this is implemented. In the long run the biggest and meanest will survive, the smaller gone, and the prices will still increase. And the earth, not much different.

If it wasn't a game the last world conference would have played out different.

[GeneralStriker]

The price of doing business can and is passed on to the consumer,that's the whole point- a drastic reduction in consumption. do we really need three chins?

http://amkon.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=421&d=1266674008

[Bitchkoma]

HP et. al, I'm open to hearing out any good ideas to reduce consumption and production of pollutants. Just don't hope on people as a group to do what's right. I got a confirmation of this just yesterday. I was driving behind a truck and we reached a T-junction. There was a kid about 6 years old or so riding a bike at the left corner of the junction. The truck made a turning left, caused the kid to lose balance and then ran over the kid. So what happened next was this kid was injured here and all the villagers were coming put to the street and everyone was just looking while I was on the phone talking to emergency dispatch. Nobody came to see if the kid was okay or anything, everyone was sitting on their asses waiting for someone else to come along and do something. So there, people as a whole are dumb shit. A person is smart, people are dumb.

Edit PS: I'm serious about the hearing out of ideas bit. If it can make a decent profit or at least sustain itself and is easily duplicatable, send me a PM. We can discuss the idea further.

[Kogburn]

that's the whole point- a drastic reduction in consumption. do we really need three chins?

http://amkon.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=421&d=1266674008

Shit... Cog has more chins than a Chinese phonebook.

[GeneralStriker]

HP et. al, I'm open to hearing out any good ideas to reduce consumption and production of pollutants. Just don't hope on people as a group to do what's right. I got a confirmation of this just yesterday. I was driving behind a truck and we reached a T-junction. There was a kid about 6 years old or so riding a bike at the left corner of the junction. The truck made a turning left, caused the kid to lose balance and then ran over the kid. So what happened next was this kid was injured here and all the villagers were coming put to the street and everyone was just looking while I was on the phone talking to emergency dispatch. Nobody came to see if the kid was okay or anything, everyone was sitting on their asses waiting for someone else to come along and do something. So there, people as a whole are dumb shit. A person is smart, people are dumb.

Edit PS: I'm serious about the hearing out of ideas bit. If it can make a decent profit or at least sustain itself and is easily duplicatable, send me a PM. We can discuss the idea further.Don't expect any workable solutions from the apologists for the Empire's feeding frenzy. Self restraint and fairness ain't in their vocabulary.

[GeneralStriker]

Shit... Cog has more chins than a Chinese phonebook.
...and more gas than exxon.

[hp]

good ideas to reduce consumption and production of pollutants. Just don't hope on people as a group to do what's right.

I have to agree with that point. Every time some thing along these lines occurs, the solution becomes a clusterf*ck of epic proportions. Yet creating and enforcing rules that benefit corporations is a slam dunk.

[hp]

In reference to the picture and related discussion - are we soon to be graced with a Cog's 'To my stalker' thread?

[GeneralStriker]

can you imagine the yuckiness of any such stalker? ...unless he's a rep for a liposuction clinic, of course.

[Cogburn]

Look Cog, all I said was that CO2 is a GHG and too much of it produced by us logically would be bad. That's also what the rest of the world agreed upon. And this was wayyyyy before your IPCC, wayyy before carbon credits. So if you wanna be disingenuous about it... whatever floats YOUR boat.

What you said is that the whole world other than America knows that CO2 is a GHG.

Do you not realize that is completely a unsupported assertion, and how such arguments label human beings as polluters by default, justifying population reduction arguments?

Changing one argument based on non-science for another is not progress.

I give BE hotpants.

[GeneralStriker]

Country UNFCCC (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/United_Nations_Framework_Convention_on_Climate_Cha nge)United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change
The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change is an international environmental treaty produced at the United Nations Conference on Environment and Development , informally known as the Earth Summit, held in Rio de Janeiro from 3 to 14 June 1992...

annex % for ratification reduction commitment for 2012 Signed Ratification/Acceptance Notes 1 Fiji member


17 September 1998 17 September 1998
2 Antigua and Barbuda member


16 March 1998 3 November 1998
3 Tuvalu member


16 November 1998 16 November 1998
4 Maldives member


16 March 1998 30 December 1998
5 Turkmenistan member


28 September 1998 11 January 1999
6 Trinidad and Tobago member


7 January 1999 28 January 1999
7 Panama member


8 June 1998 5 March 1999
8 Bahamas member



9 April 1999
9 Georgia member



16 June 1999
10 Micronesia member


17 March 1998 21 June 1999
11 Jamaica member



28 June 1999
12 Cyprus member



16 July 1999 - 13 Paraguay member


25 August 1998 27 August 1999
14 Guatemala member


10 July 1998 5 October 1999
15 Uzbekistan member


20 November 1998 12 October 1999
16 Nicaragua member


7 July 1998 18 November 1999
17 Bolivia member


9 July 1998 30 November 1999
18 Palau member



10 December 1999
19 Mongolia member



15 December 1999
20 Ecuador member


15 January 1999 13 January 2000
21 El Salvador member


8 June 1998 13 January 2000
22 Honduras member


25 February 1999 19 July 2000
23 Barbados member



7 August 2000
24 Equatorial Guinea member



16 August 2000
25 Lesotho member



6 September 2000
26 Guinea member



7 September 2000
27 Kiribati member



7 September 2000
28 Mexico member


9 June 1998 7 September 2000
29 Azerbaijan member



28 September 2000
30 Samoa member


16 March 1998 27 November 2000
31 Uruguay member


29 July 1998 5 February 2001
32 Romania member I 1.24% -8% 5 January 1999 19 March 2001
33 Mauritius member



9 May 2001
34 Gambia member



1 June 2001
35 Vanuatu member



17 July 2001
36 Senegal member



20 July 2001
37 Nauru member



16 August 2001
38 Argentina member


16 March 1998 28 September 2001
39 Burundi member



18 October 2001
40 Bangladesh member



22 October 2001
41 Malawi member



26 October 2001
42 Malta member -

17 April 1998 11 November 2001
43 Czech Republic member I 1.24% -8% 23 November 1998 15 November 2001
44 Colombia member



30 November 2001
45 Morocco member



25 January 2002
46 Dominican Republic member



12 February 2002
47 Benin member



25 February 2002
48 Djibouti member



12 March 2002
49 Uganda member



25 March 2002
50 Mali member


27 January 1999 28 March 2002
51 Papua New Guinea member


2 March 1999 28 March 2002
52 Cuba member


15 March 1999 30 April 2002
53 Iceland member I, II 0.02% +10%
23 May 2002 55th entity (if counting with the Cook Islands (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Cook_Islands)Cook Islands
The Cook Islands are a self-governing parliamentary democracy in free association with New Zealand. The fifteen small islands in this South Pacific Ocean country have a total land area of 240 square kilometres , but the Cook Islands Exclusive Economic Zone covers 1.8 million square kilometres...

and Niue (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Niue)Niue
Niue is an island nation in the South Pacific Ocean. It is commonly known as the "Rock of Polynesia", and natives of the island call it "the Rock"....

), this fulfills the first condition for coming-into-force 54 Norway member I, II 0.26% +1% 29 April 1998 30 May 2002
-- European Union member I, II 31.68% -8% 29 April 1998 31 May 2002 All ratifications of the then-EU-members are deposited simultaneously (see 55-70) 55 Austria member I, II 0.4% -8% (-13%) 24 September 1998 31 May 2002
56 Belgium member I, II 0.8% -8% (-7.5%) 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
57 Denmark member I, II 0.4% -8% (-21%) 29 April 1998 31 May 2002 Greenland: applied
Faroe Islands: not applied 58 Finland member I, II 0.4% -8% (0%) 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
59 France member I, II 2.7% -8% (0%) 29 April 1998 31 May 2002 , , , : applied
, , , , , : not applied 60 Germany member I, II 7.4% -8% (-21%) 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
61 Greece member I, II 0.6% -8% (+25%), 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
62 Ireland member I, II 0.2% -8% (+13%), 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
63 Italy member I, II 3.1% -8% (-6.5%) 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
64 Luxembourg member I, II 0.1% -8% (-28%) 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
65 Netherlands member I, II 1.2% -8% (-6%) 29 April 1998 31 May 2002 Aruba: not applied
Netherlands Antilles: not applied 66 Portugal member I, II 0.3% -8% (+27%), 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
67 Spain member I, II 1.9% -8% (+15%), 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
68 Sweden member I, II 0.4% -8% (+4%), 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
69 United Kingdom member I, II 4.3% -8% (-12.5%) 29 April 1998 31 May 2002
70 Slovakia member I 0.42% -8% 26 February 1998 31 May 2002
71 Japan member I, II 8.55% -6% 28 April 1998 4 June 2002
72 Latvia member I 0.17% -8% 14 December 1998 5 July 2002
73 Seychelles member


20 March 1998 22 July 2002
74 South Africa member



31 July 2002
75 Slovenia member I - -8% 21 October 1998 2 August 2002
76 Grenada member



6 August 2002
77 Costa Rica member


27 April 1998 9 August 2002
78 Bulgaria member I 0.6% -8% 18 September 1998 15 August 2002
79 Hungary member I 0.52% -6%
21 August 2002
80 Cambodia member



22 August 2002
81 Brazil member


29 April 1998 23 August 2002
82 Bhutan member



26 August 2002
83 Chile member


17 June 1998 26 August 2002
84 India member



26 August 2002
85 Tanzania member



26 August 2002
86 Cameroon member



28 August 2002
87 Thailand member


2 February 1999 28 August 2002
88 China member


29 May 1998 30 August 2002 Hong Kong: applied since April 8 2003
Macao: not applied 89 Sri Lanka member



3 September 2002
90 Malaysia member


12 March 1999 4 September 2002
91 Peru member


13 November 1998 12 September 2002
92 Vietnam member


3 December 1998 25 September 2002
93 Estonia member I 0.28% -8% 3 December 1998 14 October 2002
94 Liberia member



5 November 2002
95 South Korea member


25 September 1998 8 November 2002
96 Poland member I 3.02% -6% 15 July 1998 13 December 2002
97 Canada member I, II 3.33% -6% 29 April 1998 17 December 2002
98 New Zealand member I, II 0.19% 0% 22 May 1998 19 December 2002 Niue: signed 8 December 1998, ratified 6 May 1999
Cook Islands: signed 16 September 1998, ratified 27 August 2001
Tokelau: not applied 99 Lithuania member I - -8% 21 September 1998 3 January 2003
100 Jordan member



17 January 2003
101 Tunisia member



22 January 2003
102 Laos member



6 February 2003
103 Solomon Islands member


29 September 1998 13 March 2003
104 Moldova member



22 April 2003
105 Armenia member



25 April 2003
106 Kyrgyzstan member



13 May 2003
107 Ghana member



30 May 2003
108 Switzerland member I, II 0.32% -8% 16 March 1998 9 July 2003
109 Guyana member



5 August 2003
110 Botswana member



8 August 2003
111 Marshall Islands member


17 March 1998 11 August 2003
112 Myanmar member



13 August 2003
113 Saint Lucia member


16 March 1998 20 August 2003
114 Namibia member



4 September 2003
115 Madagascar member



24 September 2003
116 Belize member



26 September 2003
117 Philippines member


15 April 1998 20 November 2003
118 Israel member


16 December 1998 15 March 2004
119 Ukraine member I - 0% 15 March 1999 12 April 2004
120 Togo member



2 July 2004
121 Rwanda member



22 July 2004
122 Yemen member



15 September 2004
123 Niger member


23 October 1998 30 September 2004
124 Sudan member



2 November 2004
125 Russia member I 17.4% 0% 11 March 1999 18 November 2004 With Russia's ratification the "55 percent of 1990 carbon dioxide emissions of the Parties included in Annex I" clause was satisfied and the treaty brought into force, effective 16 February 2005. 126 Macedonia member



18 November 2004
127 Indonesia member


13 July 1998 3 December 2004
128 Liechtenstein member I 0.0015% -8% 29 June 1998 3 December 2004
129 Nigeria member



10 December 2004
130 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines member


19 March 1998 31 December 2004
131 Pakistan member



11 January 2005
132 Qatar member



11 January 2005
133 Egypt member


15 March 1999 12 January 2005
134 Mozambique member



18 January 2005
135 Oman member



19 January 2005
136 Dominica member



25 January 2005
137 United Arab Emirates member



26 January 2005
138 Saudi Arabia member



31 January 2005
139 Algeria member



16 February 2005
140 Venezuela member



18 February 2005
141 Kenya member



25 February 2005
142 Kuwait member



11 March 2005
143 Democratic Republic of the Congo member



23 March 2005
144 Burkina Faso member



31 March 2005
145 Albania member



1 April 2005
146 Ethiopia member



14 April 2005
147 North Korea member



27 April 2005
148 Haiti member



6 July 2005
149 Mauritania member



22 July 2005
150 Eritrea member



28 July 2005
151 Iran member



22 August 2005
152 Belarus member I - none yet
26 August 2005
153 Nepal member



16 September 2005
154 Guinea-Bissau member



18 November 2005
155 Swaziland member



13 January 2006
156 Syria member



27 January 2006
157 Bahrain member



31 January 2006
158 Cape Verde member



10 February 2006
159 Monaco member I 0.0015% -8% 29 April 1998 27 February 2006
160 Singapore member



12 April 2006
161 Zambia member


August 5 1998 July 7 2006
162 Libya member



August 24 2006
163 Suriname member



September 25 2006
164 Sierra Leone member



November 10 2006
165 Lebanon member



November 13 2006
166 Gabon member



December 12 2006
167 Republic of the Congo member



February 12 2007
168 Bosnia and Herzegovina member



April 16 2007
169 Côte d'Ivoire member



April 23 2007
170 Croatia member I - -5% March 11 1999 April 27 2007
171 Angola member



May 8 2007
172 Montenegro member



June 4 2007
173 Serbia member



September 24 2007
174 Australia member I, II 2.1% +8% April 29 1998 December 3 2007
175 Tonga member



January 14 2008
176 Central African Republic member



March 18 2008
177 Saint Kitts and Nevis member



April 8 2008
178 Comoros member



April 10 2008
179 Sao Tome and Principe member



July 24 2008
180 Timor-Leste member



October 14 2008
181 Tajikistan member



January 5 2009
182 Turkey member I, - - none yet
May 28 2009
183 Kazakhstan member
- none yet March 12 1999 June 19 2009
184 Zimbabwe member



June 30 2009
total countries: 184 members: 184
observers: 0 I: 39
II: 22 33, 63.9% -%: 31 (24)
0%: 3 (5)
+%: 3 (8)



Signed but not intending to ratify

United States

[GeneralStriker]

What you said is that the whole world other than America knows that CO2 is a GHG.

Do you not realize that is completely a unsupported assertionAll in favor?
Yeas...............184
Nays..............1

Looks like the Nays have it. End of discussion.

[Cogburn]

Looks like the vote for the Iraq War.

Mob rule is always the best way to make a decision, especially when it's based on bad information.

You win this round, obviously.

[GeneralStriker]

Spoken like a true patriot of the Empire.

[Bitchkoma]

What you said is that the whole world other than America knows that CO2 is a GHG.

Nope, re-read my sentence again. In fact, re-read the paragraph. Focus on the bits where it only became an issue when American politicians turned it into a talking point. If you think I'm (or anyone with a difference in opinion is) here to attack you, then you would make the mistake of thinking I singled you out.



Do you not realize that is completely a unsupported assertion, and how such arguments label human beings as polluters by default, justifying population reduction arguments?


You're denying CO2 is a GHG? Or are you trying to make the connection that since air we breath out is CO2, CO2 is not a GHG. Remember, I did not say pollutants there in that paragraph you quoted. I said GHG. The science behind GHG is rock solid. And I feel like you are purposely trying to misinterpret or muddy things up here by making that connection when clearly my or anyones concern should be CO2 output from power plants, not exhaled air.

[Cogburn]

You're denying CO2 is a GHG? Or are you trying to make the connection that since air we breath out is CO2, CO2 is not a GHG. Remember, I did not say pollutants there in that paragraph you quoted. I said GHG. The science behind GHG is rock solid.

Unfortunately it's not.

CO2 does indeed trap heat in a hermetic environment, however the reality in the atmosphere is the exact opposite and as a result the extension of the argument to CO2 is false.

Were there actual truth in such facts, the exact amount of temperature difference per unit of CO2 in the atmosphere could be calculated quite easily. Furthermore, the exact "tip over point" could be calculated and sufficient measures be enacted in order to circumvent such an occurrence.

... but none of that exists because the models upon which your statements are made are not accurate to reality.

Unless you'd care to provide a scientific study that provides such information to refute my claim, you are just restating the existing flawed zeitgeist.

[hp]

All in favor?
Yeas...............184
Nays..............1

Looks like the Nays have it. End of discussion.

And thankfully, once again, the nays have the most powerful war machine.

I bet the plan is for that direct energy, laser guided weapon system to be used to blast the CO2 out of the air. If it's in the air, we can kill it.

[Cogburn]

China beat us to it. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-29-china-rain_x.htm)

One might make the argument that being a signatory to the UNFCCC doesn't actually mean doing anything about your pollution control issues... except for sweeping it under the rug when the world comes to visit.

[Bitchkoma]

CO2 does indeed trap heat in a hermetic environment, however the reality in the atmosphere is the exact opposite and as a result the extension of the argument to CO2 is false.

Explain.

[hp]

The world can be one big 'what if' or 'could have'. Doesn't always happen.

I want to be a cloud gunner. Hope it catches on here and the government starts the paydays flowing.

[Cogburn]

Explain.
The exact study that indicated the facts that I mentioned still escapes me. The study I'm thinking of showed that temperatures in the higher atmosphere were not in alignment with the predictions made by the greenhouse model, they were far warmer than they should be if greenhouse gases in the lower atmosphere were operating as "expected" by IPCC models. Now I wish I would have bookmarked it, but I'm still looking.

Here's a bit more science that debunks CO2 as a major contributor to atmospheric global warming.

Water vapor is the greatest greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, but because 99.999% of it is not man-made, it is ignored.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image270f.gif
(Source for data: R.G. Ellingson, 1999. Water vapor—private communication; R.G. Ellingson, J. Ellis, and S. Fels, 1991. “The Intercomparison of Radiation Codes Used in Climate Models: Long Wave Results. Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 96 (D5), pp. 8929-8953)

Here's some actual numbers relating the PPM of CO2 in the atmosphere in relation to the mean global temperature. Notice how the temperature to CO2 content is completely inverted as compared to what the global warming models suggest should have happened.
http://i46.tinypic.com/xelf8k.jpg

[skunk]

Don't expect any workable solutions from the apologists for the Empire's feeding frenzy. Self restraint and fairness ain't in their vocabulary.

:facepalm:

What have you been smoking? God damn dude, you're living in lala land (no offense to lala).

NO ONE has said we should continue polluting, or maintain the status quo of rampant consumerism.

Seriously you need to pull your head out of your ass more often, and smell the fucking roses.

[WITCH HUNT]

It is my observation that the partisan hackery only originates from America. Rest of the world was fine with the idea of CO2 as a GHG and human excess output of CO2 can conceivably lead to problems ergo we should reduce output if possible. Then your politicians took the torch and shit went to hell. Another this or that issue that shouldn't even have been an issue to begin with but was made to be an issue so political hacks can divide and conquer or build an issue of contention. Fucking joke.

Well, you got us on that one. Americans can turn gold into shit faster than any one else. However, it can be said that Europeans are the first to roll over and take up the ass faster than anyone else as well. Britains are especially eager to be taken advantage of by there government. How much is Petrol per gallon/liter, how many crime cameras film you as you walk out to the mailbox? Meh! Blame us all you want, we are the only ones you can! China is a larger producer of GHG than we are, but they would tell you to go fuck yourself!

Americans were the first to take a good look at the IPCC and Anglia data, and it's a good thing too because it starting to look like fraud! Is there any investigation being undertaken by a European government into any of the recent climate scandals? NO right? Any outrage by the citizenry? No right? Yeah, just blame the USA for mucking up the the plan!

One more time,..... what percentage of co2 in the Atmosphere is man-made? According to Al Gore, it's ..................................< 10%. The rest of the co2 is naturally occurring. WHAT ABOUT SULFUR AND METHANE? Why isn't that a priority for Al Gore? CO2 nourishes plant life, sulfur and methane kill.

Finally, If the IPCC and all of the the proponents of MMGW were honest, open and sincere, there would be a concensus on it and a plan to combat it. Blame the people who lied, Not America!

[WITCH HUNT]

One more time! If Al Gore really believed that MMGW is the gravest threat to mankind since the Plague, why is he so reluctant to speak to the press.



http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/7330903/

[Lexion]

Why when I saw MMGW I immediately
thought MMORPGW ?

[GeneralStriker]

because he's had to endure the slings and arrows of the flat earthers for so long that he's a little gun shy. but he's correct. climate change is an extinction event. but fuck it. it's too late to change anything at this point.

[Lexion]

Smoke em if ya got em, boys.

[skunk]

Just got a bag of crack, does that count?

[WITCH HUNT]

because he's had to endure the slings and arrows of the flat earthers for so long that he's a little gun shy. but he's correct. climate change is an extinction event. but fuck it. it's too late to change anything at this point.

Yeah, those huddled, unwashed masses asking those pesky questions seems a little too ...., how we say,....... inconvenient?

God forbid those useless eaters should start to think for themselves, huh.

[WITCH HUNT]

Just got a bag of crack, does that count?

Did you bring enough for everybody?

[skunk]

Only about a day's worth.

http://img1.tvloop.com/img/showpics/d6/94/l346d8b590000_1_23372.jpg

[WITCH HUNT]

SHAZAM!!!

[Infinite`Eternal`Forever]

Hey Witch! My deployment is over in a couple of weeks! I should have more time to post, wanna do it in here or some where else ?

Bump to ask this sock of WH person a question:

You do know that your buddy WH is fond projecting his homoerotic fantasies on to me. Right?

[coldjoint]

Yeah, those huddled, unwashed masses asking those pesky questions seems a little too ...., how we say,....... inconvenient?

God forbid those useless eaters should start to think for themselves, huh.


Didn't Margret Sanger say that?