Star Symbol Of Saturn - Present In All World Religions?

[Ducky]

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/CanuckyDucky/starofdavid.jpg

It's widely known today as being the "Star of David", and the center symbol on the flag of Israel, but many people don't know that this hexagonal figure is older still, in the Hindu religion.

In fact, we will find the hexagon, a major key player in many religions of the world.

What does it all mean? People prefer hexagonal shapes?

Perhaps. Then perhaps there is something of deeper meaning going on that people realize.

Like any vid I watch, it is taken with a grain of salt. No more...no less. If something strikes a chord with me, I like sharing the experience with others.

There are 8 parts in all, but I wanted to focus on this particular one for the time being:

s]qWowoXw3GPQs]

[pack3tg0st]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheistsa.jpg

http://www.religioustolerance.org/emptyset.gif

http://www.ohioatheists.org/Ohio_files/logonotext.jpg

[Ducky]

Hey Pack?

Did you get a chance to see the vid?

[pack3tg0st]

I'll have to watch it after coffee lol

My brain is mush right now...

pack... is not a morning person :P

[boycotteverything]

and the point is? jews are satanists? what a great find.

[pack3tg0st]

I dunno ducks... the symbol they keep bringing up means different things to the different religions...

Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all Abrahamic religions...

Its been speculated that Buddhism, Hinduism and other "Eastern" religions have common roots as well...

To the European pagans, the star is actually two symbols overlapping each other... a triangle with a point upward is the symbol of fire... and a triangle point downward is the symbol for water... they superimpose the two to symbolize balance...

To wiccans and druids, the symbol is a ward against evil...

the poster in that video seems to have done some shoddy homework... or is intentionally leaving out the differences in meanings...

Its like saying that this Chinese bhuddist is a nazi:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/af/Photo_of_rss_member.jpg/150px-Photo_of_rss_member.jpg

Or that this symbol means the nazi's hail back to Hinduism:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/HinduSwastika.svg

The symbols mean different things to different cultures... and don't necessarily have a common origin...

[Ducky]

and the point is? jews are satanists? what a great find.

I didn't say that.

[pack3tg0st]

For further examples:

The christian cross... The cross itself isn't christian at all...

Here are a few "pre-christian" crosses...

The Celtic Cross
http://i3.iofferphoto.com/img/1139126400/_i/10439501/1.jpg

A pre-christian cross in Northern Ireland:
http://www.crichtonmiller.com/Constantine%20Conspiracy_files/image006.jpg

Its not the symbol that needs looking into... but the meaning ascribed to the symbol...

basic geometric shapes are bound to reoccur at least once, if not several times throughout human history.

[boycotteverything]

and the point is? jews are satanists? what a great find.



I didn't say that.Then why post such a flagrantly anti-Jewish video? There's either a point or it's pointless. I'll throw down with Packer's thoughtful response on this. And i'll add this Yogi Berra-ism into the mix: "If you don't think too good, don't think too much."

[Ducky]

It's a common theme amongst many religions today. Obviously the roots stemmed from the pagan sects as well.

As much as people want to diversify in their belief systems, the hexagonal symbol has stayed the same all throughout.

Even so with the Sumerians.

I'll show you one of the other installments of the 8 part series to point this out.

Keep in mind, that the Sumerians were pretty advanced for their culture (like the Mayans) and would have been privy to esoterical and astronomical teachings. They were able to precisely calculate mathematics before the Greeks and famous historians such as Newton, et al.

I'll bring up Stichin for a reason here. Don't worry, it's not about planet x. He surmised that the Sumerians were knowledgable about how many planets were in our solar system. We were able to verify this in the 19th and 20th century, using modern day equipment.

The pic I'm talking about:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/CanuckyDucky/sumerianpic.jpg

Is it possible that they also knew about the hexigonal shape on the north pole of saturn? Cassini (http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/index.cfm) took this pic:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/CanuckyDucky/hexagononsaturn.jpg

[boycotteverything]

I'll bring up Stichinhahahaha stitchin and bitchin, eh?

[skunk]

How is that anti-jewish? What a dumb fuck.

Ducky, that's an interesting premise. I have no intention of watching the video, but do you have any information regarding other religions using the six pointed star other than the jews and sumerians (who were their ancestors mind you; Abraham came from Ur)?

[Ducky]

I'll bring up Stichinhahahaha stitchin and bitchin, eh?

lol Not quite.

Here's the vid I mentioned:

Part 7 (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1676851/666_the_beast_finally_identified_part_7/)

(Couldn't find part 7 on youtube)

[pack3tg0st]

mere coincidence.

its easy to connect non-related dots...

the number 7 is a common re-occuring theme in religion...

Is it possible that the founders of the religions new about Star Trek, episode 7: "Androids don't eat, Miss Chapel?"

Maybe they are warning us about wearing red shirts... as this episode has the first red-shirt death..

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/thumb/2/25/Ethan_Mathews.jpg/180px-Ethan_Mathews.jpg

Or perhaps they were warning us about the dangers of building android replicas of ourself...

See... now that I've connected the dots... its time for someone to prove my meaning wrong... which is impossible... so it must be true right?

Or perhaps this could all be coincidental...

Whats more likely?

[boycotteverything]

the guy did some serious stitchin alright. i guess we're just fucked. witches and deamans are everywhere!

[Ducky]

do you have any information regarding other religions using the six pointed star other than the jews and sumerians (who were their ancestors mind you; Abraham came from Ur)?

Here's a few examples I pulled from the vid. *Note* Jewish, Christian, and Islamic religions are based on the Torah - Abraham being the father of these relgions and are found on the list below:

* JEWISH temples/synagogues
* CHRISTIAN churches
* HINDUISM - 10,000 yr. old Yantra (hexagram) - Satkona
* Yantra on the Hindu god Kali
* Yantra on the Hindu god Shiva
* Janardhana temple, Varkala
* Yantra on Hindu shrine in Kerela, India
* BUDHISM - Mandala on Napolese pagoda, Tibet, Kathmandu shrine
* Shinto shrine - Japan
* ISLAMIC - Mosque of Sultan Mamluk, Cairo Egypt

The list goes on and on.

[boycotteverything]

let's forget these guys-

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-oldwest/SheriffBadge2.jpg

[Ducky]

I'll add more to this thread, but alas I have to head to work right now.

[boycotteverything]

and i reckon we oughta teach them damned Muslims how to count! 666 you fools!

http://www.flagshag.com/smaller/asiacoats/Turkmenistan_Coat_of_Arms.jpg

[skunk]

Ducky, are you implying that these religions are saturnalian cults (ie the devil) based on the use of 6-sided stars? Am I understanding this thread correctly?

[pack3tg0st]

Whats funnier, is that satan/the devil is the creation of these religions...

In other words, you enter into a paradox...

The Devil was created by religion

Religion uses "the devil" as the "ultimate negative" and their god as the "ultimate positive" (I hate using good/evil... it confuses discussion)

All religions (apparently)worship the devil...

any 2 of those statements can be correct... but not all three...

Unless of course, your religion teaches you to worship evil (satanic)


Footnote: Satanic and Satanist are NOT the same thing.... I'll clarify if need be, but I doubt its needed.

[skunk]

Duality can only continue if there are two sides: good and evil. In reality, there is only gray.

[boycotteverything]

Whats funnier... not sure i follow your logic but in essence i agree with your spirit. it can be summed up rather concisely: Religion is bullshit.

[pack3tg0st]

Not all religions preach duality though...

In reality, good and evil are man-made ideas...

to make it worse... what is good/evil to our grandfathers is the opposite to us...

It's a sliding zeitgeist.

Trusting in some wierdos in the bronze age (and before) to tell you what is moral/immoral is a deadly mistake...

[mojo]

but many people don't know that this hexagonal figure is older still, in the Hindu religion.

it's not the oldest symbol.

actually the winged sun disk has probably more claim to being used in more religions and societies than the "star of david" and is significantly older.

gilgamesh holding up the sun disk.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/mojo4sale/sundisk.jpg

http://www.seanet.com/~raines/disc.html

a friend has done quite a lot of research on the winged sun disk and traced it's origin back to mesopotamia, it has also appeared in assyria, egypt asia, and the america's and many other regions, seemingly before contact from other cultures.

once his book is published i could share some other interesting facts regarding the winged sun disk. ;)

[boycotteverything]

E=MC2, as do all equations, implies duality- or at least a Dialectic. The Unity is the Process in itself.

[skunk]

I thought that was supposed to symbolize the annunaki mojo?

[boycotteverything]

shit man- it symbolizes the sun flying through the heavens. nothing especially esoteric about the concept. it's signal of a beautiful innocence.

[mojo]

[Then why post such a flagrantly anti-Jewish video?

because "freedom of speech" means allowing those you vehemently disagree with an opportunity to speak.
whether you like it or not.


I thought that was supposed to symbolize the annunaki mojo?

if i get the ok from steve i'll post what it means.

it has nothing to do with the annunaki, or aliens....from any of the cultures that have used it, the answer is much simpler and amazingly logical when it's shown to you.

[mojo]

shit man- it symbolizes the sun flying through the heavens. nothing especially esoteric about the concept. it's signal of a beautiful innocence.

wrong.

lol.

[boycotteverything]

right

[pack3tg0st]

because "freedom of speech" means allowing those you vehemently disagree with an opportunity to speak.
whether you like it or not.


Smite

[skunk]

it has nothing to do with the annunaki, or aliens....from any of the cultures that have used it, the answer is much simpler and amazingly logical when it's shown to you.

So what is it?

[boycotteverything]

i'm not questioning her right to post it- rather her judgment in considering it somehow profound.

[Cogburn]

The Rites of Saturnalia are still practiced in the Catholic Church.

My wife was a part of the first co-ed class to attend a particular Jesuit high school. They didn't celebrate Christmas in the school but performed a modern incarnation of the Rites of Saturnalia... by name...

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/calendar/saturnalia.html

Iconography subsumes written language. Ideas conveyed in pictographs are the oldest form of non-verbal communication known to history. You are reading a pictographic language right now.

Are not cultures that share the same pictographic language related by more than just that language? Do not America, England, Australia and NZ have more in common than they do not? Or what of Portugal, Venezuela and Peru? Are not those cultures derivatives from that entity from which they borrowed their iconographic language? One may take it a step further and then relate all common languages together, as is done when they are titled "Romance languages".

Why does one draw the line arbitrarily between such language-based classifications and the possibility of deeper ideological connections for non-language related iconography? It's completely arbitrary and illogical.

Shared iconography always indicates shared ideology, be it either directly or derivative.

[Cogburn]

i'm not questioning her right to post it- rather her judgment in considering it somehow profound.
LOL what a bunch of bullshit. You had a knee-jerk reaction to a video critical of Judaism without consideration for the content or context.

You may now continue to attempt to justify it after the fact anyway you like. Carry on.

[boycotteverything]

without consideration for the content or context.i took the time to watch it and found it ridiculous and gratuitously defamatory. and i made that plain.

[pack3tg0st]

Its not focusing on the jews BE...

It starts out on all the abrahamic religions... Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Then branches out to some eastern religions...

[boycotteverything]

my conclusion was simply this-
There's either a point or it's pointless. I'll throw down with Packer's thoughtful response on this.

[mojo]

i'm not questioning her right to post it- rather her judgment in considering it somehow profound.


hahahhahahahahah...and nowhere in ducky's OP does she suggest that she found it "profound" rather that she found it interesting and worthy of sharing for discussion.


What does it all mean? People prefer hexagonal shapes?

Perhaps. Then perhaps there is something of deeper meaning going on that people realize.

Like any vid I watch, it is taken with a grain of salt. No more...no less. If something strikes a chord with me, I like sharing the experience with others.


for fucks sake man, there is nothing worse than someone who refuses to ever admit to an error in judgement.

[skunk]

This is the key part of her OP:


Like any vid I watch, it is taken with a grain of salt. No more...no less. If something strikes a chord with me, I like sharing the experience with others.

[boycotteverything]

ok

[mojo]

right


So what is it?

clue.

sumerian winged sun disk, the earliest known representations are from sumeria.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/mojo4sale/sumerianwingedsundisk.jpg

the cervical vertibrae of a sperm whale.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/mojo4sale/cervicalvertibrae.jpg

why would this symbol show up in continents that had never had any contact with each other, what could possibly be a relevant but important part of daily life for coastal communities seperated by thousands of kilometres.

[boycotteverything]

...go on

[mojo]

...go on

im afraid i can't post steve's research in a public forum until he has published and even then there might be copyright implications.
if he gives me the ok i'll be able to share the book privately.

it will seriously blow your mind, this is only a small part and is the reason i really gained an interest and an insight into ancient mythology.

[skunk]

Does it have to do something with an ancient global maritime society?

[mojo]

Does it have to do something with an ancient global maritime society?

no not really, the symbology of many cultures really only points to a common goal, sustenance and resources.
like i said the winged sun disk symbology is only a small part of the book, though important.
the book details the beginings of civilization and religion and shows beyond a shadow of doubt the hypocrisy of all of the mainstream religions.
much of my research and posts on the fraudulent nature of religion is based in part on what i learned from reading this research material, coupled with my own biases. lol.

[boycotteverything]

it will seriously blow your mind, this is only a small part and is the reason i really gained an interest and an insight into ancient mythology.Post what you can on the private forum. You've sparked my curiosity big time. Otherwise we'll have to get the fully sick boyz on your sorry ass.

[mojo]

it will seriously blow your mind, this is only a small part and is the reason i really gained an interest and an insight into ancient mythology.Post what you can on the private forum. You've sparked my curiosity big time. Otherwise we'll have to get the fully sick boyz on your sorry ass.

done.

[boycotteverything]

sorry. the fully sick boyz had already been dispatched. plz take pics.

[mojo]

Otherwise we'll have to get the fully sick boyz on your sorry ass.

:lol:

i am the fully sick boyz!

[boycotteverything]

well in that case, pics are mandatory.

[boycotteverything]

oi! you slep wi me cousin!

the shit i did, eh!

chk chk boom!

pics, please...

[mojo]

oi! you slep wi me cousin!

the shit i did, eh!

chk chk boom!

pics, please...

haha...you really have no idea how real these fuckwits are...do you?

they are the bogan's mortal enemies, not to mention the skegs and rockers, goths and 'bangers, raver's, stoner's and front bar assholes (me).

but pics i can do.......you may need to clean your eyeballs with isopropyl alcohol afterwards though.

[boycotteverything]

haha...you really have no idea how real these fuckwits are...do you? been there- watched that movie. hahahaha

[mojo]

haha...you really have no idea how real these fuckwits are...do you? been there- watched that movie. hahahaha

no really....you haven't.
you think LA gangbangers are fucking stoopid, talk a walk down hindley street or kings cross on a saturday...it's fucking amazing i haven't been arrested for murdering these dumb fucks yet.

[boycotteverything]

you may be right. but my kids keep me apprised. there's an element of society entirely lacking in conscience. how can it be?

[mojo]

how can it be?

we are all to blame.

especially the 60's. :D

[boycotteverything]

hahahaha sorry...

[boycotteverything]

"Why don't we do it in the road?
No-one will be watchin' us..
Why don't we do it in the road?"

John Lennon
R.I.P.

t]yae3P1qoOa4t]

[mojo]

John Lennon


do i need to repeat exactly who the fuck Lennon really was.

[boycotteverything]

nah. we're over it bigtime...

[mojo]

nah. we're over it bigtime...

you may be over it but i think it bears repeating.


give me a fucking break, the guy was a drugged out, thumbprinted moron who got cunt struck by a devious fucking bitch who wanted nothing more than money and notoriety.

yeah, i'm gonna live my life by the lessons he taught, over my and my families dead fucking bodies.

[boycotteverything]

fuckit. at least we know he was human...

[mojo]

fuckit. at least we know he was human...

and the rest of us aren't?

[boycotteverything]

some are, some aren't. it's a choice.

[Ducky]

Crap almighty!!! :shock:

I wasn't sure if this thread was going to go anywhere, and just finally read through 4 pgs worth.

Wow....lot's of goodies :D

Thanks everyone!

[KIWI]

How is that anti-jewish? What a dumb fuck.

Ducky, that's an interesting premise. I have no intention of watching the video, but do you have any information regarding other religions using the six pointed star other than the jews and sumerians (who were their ancestors mind you; Abraham came from Ur)?

being a Velikovsky fan, I couldnt resist, ........ to trace the possible origins of our oldest symbols all ideas need looking at, and the oldest are there fore the original ? :salut:

http://www.varchive.org/itb/rings.htm

Of Saturn I intended, already for some two decades, to write in a volume “Saturn and the Flood,” in which, as the title discloses, I would endeavor to identify this planet as the prime cause of the greatest of all catastrophes in human memory—the universal flood, or Deluge. This part of Worlds in Collision was conceived and drafted together with the parts dealing with Venus and Mars, but the elaboration of details was postponed and other labors claimed my attention and I am still before work unfinished. I will, however, disclose in a few sentences what is the subject of that part of reconstruction of world history.

The age that man later called the Age of Cronos (Saturn) was remembered with nostalgia as the age of bliss. It was the the earliest age of which man retained some, however dim, memories, but farther into the past, the dimness amounts almost to darkness. Saturn was also a more massive body than it is now, possibly of the volume of Jupiter, 1 whereas now the proportion is approximately 7 to 13.

At a date that I would be hard put to task to identify even with approximation, but possibly about than ten thousand years ago, Saturn was distrubed by Jupiter and exploded, actually became a nova. The solar system and reaches beyond it were illuminated by the exploded star, and in a matter of a week the earth was enveloped in waters of Saturnian origin.

Told in such brevity, the story sounds fantastic. I had the choice not to mention these events here at all or to refer to them and ask indulgence on the part of the readers for having said something unusual, and at the same time ask them to wait for a detailed narrative at some indeterminate time. I selected the latter. I have already mentioned that the major planets were in some way connected with the earlier cataclysms, one of which was the Deluge (Worlds in Collision, p. 373).

When in 1946 the manuscript of Worlds in Collision was first offered to the publishers (Macmillan and Co., New York), it contained the story of the Deluge and of the catastrophe that terminated the Old Kingdom in Egypt. But, at the suggestion of the reader for the publishing company, the book should ahve concentrated on one event; we compromised and presented in the published volume two series of catastrophes—those that took place in the fifteenth century before the present era and were caused by near approaches of Venus, and those which occurred in the eighth century before this era, and were caused by close approaches of Mars. The unused material was left for ealboration in two volumes: “Saturn and the Flood” and “Jupiter of the Thunderbolt.”

With this hardly even a summary, as told on this page, I should possibly dispel any misconception as to what is the design of my manuscript, too slow in the making. As to “predictions,” I could make several and I offer them cognizant of the fact that a prediction in science needs to be elaborated on the reasons that led to it.

I assumed, in the first place, that the planet Saturn must contain water to the extent that it is a “water planet.” It is also possible that water that eveloped the earth follwoing the explosion of Saturn was at least partly formed by hydrogen combining with the oxygen of the terrestrial atmosphere—and there are indications that I intend to discuss in my book on the Deluge which point toward a sudden drop in oxygen content in the terrestrial atmosphere. But the fact that comets were observed consisting of water (ice), according to their spectral picture, permits the conclusion that water “ready-made” cae from the planetary “nova.” Actually, in years subsequent to my concept of Worlds in Collision, water was identified as present on Saturn.

Further, I assumed that sodium chloride, or common salt, is an ingredient of the Saturnian atmosphere. Geophysicists have long wondered as to the origin of salt in the ocean. Sodium could have been derived from terrestrial rocks; but they are poor in chlorine. To some extent chlorine in oceans could have come from volcanic eruptions but it would require eruptions on an almost unimaginable scale to produce all of the chlorine locked in the salt of the oceans. The ancient traditions of Deluge refer also to the water arriving from space as salty and warm.

I have thought also of free chlorine (not combined into salt) on Saturn; but it is possible that vegetable life, at least, is present on Saturn, and free chlorine would interfere with vegetation; the reasons, though not compelling, for this assumption of vegetation on Saturn are also reserved for the detailed discussion. The tradition found in ancient texts refers to innumerable new forms of life in animal and plant kingdom following the Flood, which could have been solely a result of multiple mutations. But there exists in ancient lore an ever recurring association of seeds and new plant forms, with Saturn, Osiris, Tammus, Cronos, all of whom I undestand as personfiications of the planet Saturn.

In recent years I have chanced to read the view of Josif Shklovsky, a Russian astrophysicists, that a nova would be a source of cosmic rays even thousands of years after the explosion. Shklovsky and his collaborators offered the suggestion that at some past time the earth, or the entire solar system, passed through clouds of cosmic rays, resulting from a nova star, that caused the extinction of various forms of life on earth, dinosaurs and others. This thought found an echo in me because the same thoughts had been put on paper by me two decades earlier. But their assumption that cosmic rays may be discharged by a nova thousands of years after the explosion led me to think that if such is the case, Saturm may still emit cosmic rays, if, by now, only of low energy. Therefore when asked at some college gatherings what new “prediction” I would make, and desirous to tell something that in case of detection could not be ascribed to a lucky guess, I volunteered to suggest that there is a good chance that Saturn emits low energy cosmic rays. This on the assumption that the Russians were right in saying that a nova would still be sending out such radiation after so long a period.

Finally, Saturn must emit more heat than it receives from the Sun. Reasons for such conditions of Saturn are at least two: first, the residual heat of the catastrophe in which Saturn was derailed from its orbit; second, the radioactivity that resulted from the catastrophe must still be pronounced on Saturn. In addition, Saturn can be regarded as a star and may have some mechanisms that make our sun burn with intense light. Becuase the surface clouds of Saturn are cold and the distance of Saturn from the sun renders the heat from this source very limited, the conclusion was drawn that Saturn must be very cold, frozen to its core. We came to a different conclusion also concerning the temperature of Saturn below the surface cloud layer.

In 1966 Dr. K. I. Kellermann described in Icarus the surprising fact that Saturn, at the wavelength of 21.3 cm. shows a temperature of 90 degrees F., which cannot be explained by solar radiation. It will be found of still higher temperature.

The rings of Saturn are formations of less than ten or twelve thousand years old. They must consist largely of water in the form of ice, but since the ancient lore all around the world tells that it was Jupiter who put these rings around Saturn, they may have some other components, too. Since these lines were written, spectroscopic study of the Saturnian rings has revealed that they consist mainly of water in the form of ice (1966).

Sodium chloride and cosmic rays are two phenomena still waiting to be investigated. Therefore, when I presented to Dr. H. H. Hess in his capacity as chairman of the Space Board of the National Academy of Science, a memorandum (dated September 11, 1963), subsequently submitted also to Dr. Homer Newell in his capacity as Director of NASA, I included these lines concerning Saturn:

“Saturn. Tests should be devised for detection of low-energy cosmic rays emanating from Saturn, especially during the weeks before and after a conjunction of Earth-Jupiter-Saturn.”

“Chlorine should be looked for in the Saturnian spectrum of absorption.”


References


Interestingly, for certain reasons G. Kuiper assumed in recent years that Saturn originally was of a mass equal to that of Jupiter. Sky &Telescope, March 1959, p. 259.

[KIWI]

http://www.varchive.org/itb/rings.htm


One instance of the Saturn myth can be verified with the help of a small telescope: Saturn is in chains. Instead of solving anything, this fact presents a new problem that demands a solution. How did the ancient Greeks and Romans know that Saturn is encircled by rings?(1) It is strange that this question was not asked before.(2) The existence of these rings around Saturn became known in modern times only in the seventeenth century, after the telescope was invented. They were first seen, but misunderstood, by Galileo(3) and understood by Huygens.(4)

If the myth did not by mere chance invent these rings, the Greeks must have seen them. The last case could be true if the Greeks or some other oriental people possessed lenses adapted for the observation of celestial bodies, or if the rings around Saturn were visible to the naked eye at some time in the past—today they are not visible without magnifying instruments. There are cases of exact observations by the Chaldeans which suggest the use of some accurate technical means.(5) These means could consist of a sort of astrolabe like that of Tyche de Brahe who made most accurate observations of celestial bodies without the help of a telescope; also Copernicus, prior to Tyche de Brahe, made all his calculations of the movements of the planets before the telescope was invented. But neither Tycho de Brahe nor Copernicus saw the rings.

The statue of Saturn on the Roman capitol had bands around its feet,(6) and Macrobius in the fifth century of our era, already ignorant of the meaning of these bands, asked: “But why is the god Saturn in chains?”

In the Egyptian legend Isis (Jupiter) swathes Osiris (Saturn). The Egyptian apellative for Osiris was “the swathed.” (7)

In the Zend-Avesta it is said that the star Tistrya (Jupiter, later Venus) keeps Pairiko in twofold bonds.(8) Saturn is encircled by two groups of rings—one larger and one smaller, with a space in between. To see this a better telescope than that used by Galilei or that used by Huygens is needed; the twofold structure of the girdle was first observed in 1675.(9)

The rings of Saturn were known also to the aboriginees of America before Columbus discovered the land; this means also before the telescope was invented at the beginning of the seventeenth century. An ancient engraved wooden panel from Mexico shows the family of the planets: one of them is Saturn, easily recognizable by its rings.(10)

Nor were the Maoris of New Zealand ignorant of them: “One of the great mysteries connected with Saturn is the still unanswered question of how the ancient Maoris of New Zealand knew about her rings—for there is evidence that they did have a Saturnian ring legend long before the days of Galileo.” (11)

In the myth it is said that Jupiter drove Saturn away and that on this occasion Saturn was put in chains. If these words mean what they say and are not a meaningless portion of the myth—in a dream, at least, there are no meaningless parts—then the knowledge of the ancients about the rings of Saturn could have been acquired because of better visibility: in other words, at some time in the past Saturn and Earth appear to have been closer to one another.

Originally I assumed that the rings of Saturn may consist of water in the form of ice, but since the ancient lore all around the world tells that it was Jupiter that put these rings around Saturn,(12) I considered that they might have some other components, too. Since the 1960’s spectroscopic study of the Saturnian rings has confirmed that they consist most probably of water in the form of ice.(13)

References

[KIWI]

last one, promise...... :?



THE WORSHIP OF SATURN


Saturn, so active in the cosmic changes, was regarded by all mankind as the supreme god. Seneca says that Epigenes, who studied astronomy among the Chaldeans, “estimates that the planet Saturn exerts the greatest influence upon all the movements of celestial bodies.” (1)

On becoming a nova, it ejected filaments in all directions and the solar system became illuminated as if by a hundred suns. It subsided rather quickly and retreated into far-away regions.

Peoples that remembered early tragedies enacted in the sky by the heavenly bodies asserted that Jupiter drove Saturn away from its place in the sky. Before Jupiter (Zeus) became the chief god, Saturn (Kronos) occupied the celestial throne. In all ancient religions the dominion passes from Saturn to Jupiter.(2) In Greek mythology, Kronos is presented as the father and Zeus as his son who dethrones him. Kronos devours some of his children. After this act Zeus overpowers his father, puts him in chains, and drives him from his royal station in the sky. In Egyptian folklore or religion the participants of the drama are said to be Osiris-Saturn, brother and husband of Isis-Jupiter.

The cult of Osiris and the mysteries associated with it dominated the Egyptian religion as nothing else. Every dead man or woman was entombed with observances honoring Osiris; the city of Abydos in the desert west of the Nile and north-west of Thebes was sacred to him; Sais in the Delta used to commemorate the floating of Osiris’ body carried by the Nile into the Mediterranean. What made Osiris so deeply ingrained in the religious memory of the nation that his cult pervaded mythology and religion?

Osiris’ dominion, before his murder by Seth, was remembered as a time of bliss. According to the legend Seth, Osiris’ brother, killed and dismembered him, whereupon Isis, Osiris’ wife, went on peregrinations to collect his dispersed members. Having gathered them and wrapped them together with swathings, she brought Osiris back to life. The memory of this event was a matter of yearly jubilation among the Egyptians.(3) Osiris became lord of the netherworld, the land of the dead. A legend, a prominent part of the Osiris cycle, tells that Isis gave birth to Horus, whom she conceived from the already dead Osiris,(4)

and that Horus grew up to avenge his father by engaging Seth in mortal combat.

In Egyptology the meaning of these occurrences stands as an unresolved mystery. The myth of Osiris “is too remarkable and occurs in too many divergent forms not to contain a considerable element of historic truth,” wrote Sir Alan Gardiner, the leading scholar in these fields;(5) but what historical truth is it? Could it be of “an ancient king upon whose tragic death the entire legend hinged” ? wondered Gardiner.(6) But of such a king “not a trace has been found before the time of the Pyramid texts,” and in these texts Osiris is spoken of without end. There he appears as a dead god or king or judge of the dead. But who was Osiris in his life? asked Gardiner. At times “he is represented to us as the vegetation which perishes in the flood-water mysteriously issuing from himself. . . .” (7) He is associated with brilliant light.(8)

After a life of studying Egyptian history and religion Gardiner confessed that he remained unaware of whom Osiris represented or memorialized: “The origin of Osiris remains from me an insoluble mystery.” (9) Nor could others in his field help him find an answer.

The Egyptologist John Wilson wrote that it is an admission of failure that the chief cultural content of Egyptian civilization, its religion, its mythological features again and again narrated and alluded to in texts and represented in statues and temple reliefs, is not understood.(10) The astral meaning of Egyptian deities was not realized and the cosmic events their activities represent were not thought of.


* * *
The prophet Ezekiel in the Babylonian exile had a vision—the likeness of a man, but made of fire and amber who lifted him by the lock of his hair and brought him to some darkened chamber where the ancients of the house of Israel with censers in their hands were worshipping idols portrayed upon the wall round about. Then the angel of the vision told him: “Thou shalt see greater abominations that they do"—and he brought the prophet to the door of the gate of the Lord’s house—"and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.” Next he showed him also Jews in the inner court of the Lord’s house “with their back toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.” (11)

The worship of the sun and the planets was decried by Jeremiah, a contemporary of Ezekiel. But what was this weeping for Tammuz?

Tammuz was a Babylonian god; one of the months of the year, approximately coinciding with July, in the summer, was named in his honor; and by this very name it is known in the present-day Hebrew calendar. Tammuz was a god that died and was then hidden in the underworld; his death was the reason for a fast, accompanied by lamentations of the women of the land. His finding or his return to life in resurrection were the motifs of the passion.(12)

Tammuz was a god of vegetation, of the flood, and of seeds: “The god Tammuz came from Armenia every year in his ark in the overflowing river, blessing the alluvium with new growth.” (13) In the month of Tammuz he was “bound, and the liturgies speak of his having been drowned among flowers which were thrown upon him as he sank beneath the waves of the Euphrates.” (14) The drowning of Tammuz was an occasion for wailing by women: “The flood has taken Tammuz, the raging storm has brought him low.” (15)

Of Tammuz it also is narrated that he was associated with brilliant light,(16) with descent into the nether world, visited there by Ishtar, his spouse. Tammuz’ death, his subsequent resurrection, or his discovery in the far reaches, but no longer brilliant, were the themes of the cult that was not just one of the mysteries, but the chief and paramount cult.

The Osirian mysteries, the wailing for Tammuz, all refer to the transformation of Saturn during and following the Deluge. Osiris was not a king but the planet Saturn, Kronos of the Greeks, Tammuz of the Babylonians. The Babylonians called Saturn “the Star of Tammuz.” (17) After the Deluge Saturn was invisible (the sky was covered for a long time by clouds of volcanic dust) and the Egyptians cried for Osiris, and the Babylonians cried for Tammuz. Isis (Jupiter at that time) went in search of her husband, and Ishtar (also Jupiter at that early time) went to the netherworld to find her husband Tammuz. For a time Saturn disappeared, driven away by Jupiter, and when it reappeared it was no longer the same planet: it moved very slowly. The disappearance of the planet Saturn in the “nether world” became the theme of many religious observances, comprising liturgies, mystery plays, lamentations, and fasts. When Osiris was seen again in the sky, though greatly diminished, the people were frenzied by the return of Osiris from death; nevertheless he became king of the netherworld. In the Egyptian way of seeing the celestial drama, Isis (Jupiter), the spouse of Osiris (Saturn) wrapped him in swathings. Osiris was known as “the swathed"—the way the dead came to be dressed for their journey to the world of the dead, over which Osiris reigns. Similar rites were celebrated in honor of Adonis, who died and was resurrected after a stay in the netherland(18), in the mysteries of Orpheus.(19)

Sir James G. Frazer, the collector of folklore, came to regard Osiris as a vegetation god(20); likewise he saw in the Babylonian Tammuz, an equivalent of the Egyptian Osiris, a vegetation god and, carried away by this concept, wrote his The Golden Bough,(21) built around the idea of the vegetation god that dies and is resurrected the following year.

A few peoples through consecutive planetary ages kept fidelity to the ancient Saturn, or Kronos, or Brahma,(22) whose age was previous to that of Jupiter. Thus the Scythians were called Umman-Manda by the Chaldeans(23)—"People of Manda"—and Manda is the name of Saturn.(24) The Phoenicians regarded El-Saturn as their chief deity; Eusebius informs us that El, a name used also in the Bible as a name for God, was the name of Saturn.(25) In Persia Saturn was known as Kevan or Kaivan.(26)

The different names for God in the Bible reflect the process of going through the many ages in which one planet superseded another and was again superseded by the next one in the celestial war. El was the name of Saturn; Adonis of the Syrians, the bewailed deity, was also, like Osiris, the planet Saturn; but in the period of the contest between the two major planets, Jupiter and Saturn, the apellative of the dual gods became Adonai, which means “my lords” ; then, with the victory of Jupiter, it came to be applied to him alone.(27)

References

[skunk]

Interesting read kiwi. thanks.

[Cogburn]

Sir James G. Frazer, the collector of folklore, came to regard Osiris as a vegetation god(20); likewise he saw in the Babylonian Tammuz, an equivalent of the Egyptian Osiris, a vegetation god and, carried away by this concept, wrote his The Golden Bough,(21) built around the idea of the vegetation god that dies and is resurrected the following year.
The Golden Bough is one of the greatest and most scholarly comparative discussions of religion in the past 100 years.

Highly recommended for anyone even remotely interested in the history of religion in the West.

[Ducky]

Sir James G. Frazer, the collector of folklore, came to regard Osiris as a vegetation god(20); likewise he saw in the Babylonian Tammuz, an equivalent of the Egyptian Osiris, a vegetation god and, carried away by this concept, wrote his The Golden Bough,(21) built around the idea of the vegetation god that dies and is resurrected the following year.
The Golden Bough is one of the greatest and most scholarly comparative discussions of religion in the past 100 years.Highly recommended for anyone even remotely interested in the history of religion in the West.

Nice!!

Where can I get my mitts on that one?

Hey Cog? Have you been able to read Mojo's goodies in the private thread yet?

[Cogburn]

C'mon Ducky... where do you find any book?

http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Bough-James-George-Frazer/dp/1595479597/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245355095&sr=8-1

Under $20, too.

As to mojo's stuff, I've read the first 6 chapters. I'm building a little commentary on it. Most of my complaints I think could be attributed to the fact it's a pre-editorial draft.

[KIWI]

the Sumerians are accredited with being the oldest race, in our recorded history, the seal below, the "solar system" is said to be proof of their knowledge of it , the image is said to show the sun and planets in the order in which they orbit today, this would cause a small problem with the timing versus I Velikovsky's theories, Im enjoying taking a closer look at this, their beliefs parallel the theories of Velikovsky in so far as the major celestial upheaval responsible for the changes was due to a "rougue".........for then Sumerians this was " Nibiru"

[attachment=0:1kg0vlns]sumerianpic.jpg[/attachment:1kg0vlns]

[Cogburn]

Oh shit you didn't just post VA243....

Before we reveal the translation of that cylinder seal I want to make sure that you weren't just joking....

[Ducky]

There's that Sumerian pic again. lol We seem to go back to that a lot eh?

Could this be Saturnus sitting on the throne?

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/CanuckyDucky/sumerianhexagon.jpg

[Lexion]

If the guy sitting stands up....

Just saying.

I hear Sitchin calling.

Have fun,
Lex

[Cogburn]

http://www.bohemianscientist.org/images/blog06/headexplode.jpg

I'll post this until the truth sinks in. Sitchin is a snake oil salesman who's snake oil only lasted so long until a Mesopotamian language expert came along with a collection of tin foil hats.

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/VA243seal.pdf

If you want to discuss the relevance of the 6 pointed star that's certainly worthy, but to claim anything greater has absolutely no basis in reality.

Either that or the Sumerians decided to completely change their iconography for the purposes of this one seal so that 5,000 years later Sitchin would make his momentus discovery.

All things derived from Sitchin's works are lies. Annunaki, Nibiru... all of it. Use that as a yardstick to judge those like Michael Lee Hill that continue to wed their ongoing fame to such fraudulent research.

[KIWI]

Oh shit you didn't just post VA243....

Before we reveal the translation of that cylinder seal I want to make sure that you weren't just joking....

dont let fear hold you back cog :smokin:

[Lexion]

Goddamn Cog....

I was being sarcastic.

Chill the fuck out.

Lex

[Cogburn]

:lol:

It's a tender subject.

Eliminating the lies of Sitchin and the works derived from it are something of a personal mission.

I think the Icke crowd has even linked Sitchin to the reptilian conspiracy as a disinformation plant and are now revising their theories accordingly.

Shit... Icke has more factual basis for his nonsense than Sitchin does...

[Lexion]

/pokes Cog with his Nibiru staff.

/runs away laughing.

I understand, bro.

Too many tout Sitchin as the end-
all, be-all of Sumerian text.

I agree, it's nonsense.

Regards,
Lex

[Ducky]

http://www.bohemianscientist.org/images/blog06/headexplode.jpg

I'll post this until the truth sinks in. Sitchin is a snake oil salesman who's snake oil only lasted so long until a Mesopotamian language expert came along with a collection of tin foil hats.

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/VA243seal.pdf

If you want to discuss the relevance of the 6 pointed star that's certainly worthy, but to claim anything greater has absolutely no basis in reality.

Either that or the Sumerians decided to completely change their iconography for the purposes of this one seal so that 5,000 years later Sitchin would make his momentus discovery.

All things derived from Sitchin's works are lies. Annunaki, Nibiru... all of it. Use that as a yardstick to judge those like Michael Lee Hill that continue to wed their ongoing fame to such fraudulent research.

I'm not talking about Sitchin.

[Lexion]

I was.

Keep up, please.

:P

Lex

[Cogburn]

I'm not talking about Sitchin.Hahah... okay... fair enough. We'll let KIWI dangle out there by himself for a minute until he comes to his senses. :)

However that PDF I posted does contain the information you were looking for. Here's another seal with a 6 pointed star.
[attachment=0:61zkhf2q]sumer_stars.jpg[/attachment:61zkhf2q]

[offsite:61zkhf2q]Some commentary on this last example is in order. The previous two examples clearly are in zodiac context, as is this one. Those previous two examples clearly have the sun symbol drawn in a manner consistent with expected Sumero-Mesopotamian features (wavy lines, encircled) that unmistakably distinguishes the sun from the star symbol. The star symbol signifies the same astronomical body in each case, yet the number of points varies. This means that the number of points is unimportant for identifying the star symbol as a STAR or planet, NOT the sun. Hence one cannot say, “well the star symbol usually has eight points, and the Sitchin seal has six, therefore it’s not a star but the sun.” This is erroneous because these examples demonstrate clearly that a star symbol can have 6, 7, or 8 pts., and LACKS wavy lines. The symbol on Sitchin’s VA 243 is NOT the sun. It is a star, and thus denotes a star, a god, or a single planet. This isn’t my opinion, it’s the Sumero-Mesopotamian art convention.[/offsite:61zkhf2q]

Which constellation is it then?

Pleiades.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/33/Pleiades_Lanoue.png

The star surrounded by the hexagram? Alcyone.

What's the Japanese name for the Pleiades constellation?

http://www.cartype.com/pics/1589/small/subaru_logo2.jpg

[KIWI]

Hahah... okay... fair enough. We'll let KIWI dangle out there by himself for a minute until he comes to his senses.


what the fuck are you on Cog ?,...I was pointing out only the similarities between Prof V theories and what is said of the Sumerian version.....so to save any more confusion,...I am not a Nibiru proponent

[Cogburn]

Hahah... okay... fair enough. We'll let KIWI dangle out there by himself for a minute until he comes to his senses.


what the fuck are you on Cog ?,...I was pointing out only the similarities between Prof V theories and what is said of the Sumerian version.....so to save any more confusion,...I am not a Nibiru proponent
It didn't quite seem as such from your original post. Correction noted.

However the assertion that a rogue planet named "Nibiru" actually existed within Sumerian mythos is another creation of Sitchin. Such a closer look as you intend will reveal that such attributions are loose interpretations at best and completely manufactured at worst.

I think you'll find the information on www.sitchiniswrong.com (http://www.sitchiniswrong.com) to go well beyond the accurate translation of VA243. It explains how the entire conspiracy theory regarding Sumerian beliefs and the historical context of Nibiru is a complete fabrication.

Sitchin's intellectual poison goes far deeper than most folks give him credit for.

[KIWI]

I think you'll find the information on www.sitchiniswrong.com (http://www.sitchiniswrong.com) to go well beyond the accurate translation of VA243. It explains how the entire conspiracy theory regarding Sumerian beliefs and the historical context of Nibiru is a complete fabrication.



indeed :)

[Ducky]

I'm sure that you've ALL seen the examples that not only I, but others portrayed about the 'hexagonal' figures by now.

I'm sitll digesting what Mojo said (private forum) as to HOW this is all corrolating.

There is a pattern emerging. Don't kid yourselves.

Though the question remains yet still:

Why is this STAR SYMBOL prevelant within many religions? It seems to have been carried out through the ages, and manifested itself in minor symbolisms even unto today's decorum.

[Cogburn]

Honestly Ducky it's because of what we in the Western world attribute to Pythagoras, however it is so fundamental to the geometry of reality that it is "discovered" time and time again in ancient cultures.

We think we are so evolved that we are beyond such petty fundamental relationships and in doing so have forgotten where it is we have come from and why we view the world the way we do.

http://www.keymath.com/documents/dg4/GP/DG4_GP_09.pdf

How did Pythagoras investigate such things without the benefit of algebra?

By dividing circles into different equal parts.

A six pointed star laid within a circle segments that circle into 6 equal parts of 60 degrees.

Why are there 360 degrees in a circle?

[offsite=http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/59075.html:33chvqj6]I finally found what I was looking for in a book called "A History of Pi" by
Petr Beckmann, a mathematician from Czechoslovakia. Here's the passage:

In 1936, a tablet was excavated some 200 miles from Babylon. Here one
should make the interjection that the Sumerians were first to make one of
man's greatest inventions, namely, writing; through written communication,
knowledge could be passed from one person to others, and from one
generation to the next and future ones. They impressed their cuneiform
(wedge-shaped) script on soft clay tablets with a stylus, and the tablets
were then hardened in the sun. The mentioned tablet, whose translation
was partially published only in 1950, is devoted to various geometrical
figures, and states that the ratio of the perimeter of a regular hexagon
to the circumference of the circumscribed circle equals a number which in
modern notation is given by 57/60 + 36/(60^2) (the Babylonians used the
sexagesimal system, i.e., their base was 60 rather than 10).

The Babylonians knew, of course, that the perimeter of a hexagon is
exactly equal to six times the radius of the circumscribed circle, in fact
that was evidently the reason why they chose to divide the circle into 360
degrees (and we are still burdened with that figure to this day). The
tablet, therefore, gives ... Pi = 25/8 = 3.125.[/offsite:33chvqj6]

Math is the language of God and our ancestors knew this because they didn't have dry mathematics instruction that bored them to tears. They saw mathematics all around them in everything they witnessed.

Math was the religion.

[Ducky]

What I personally think....is that the 'Pathagorean theorum' didn't place precidence at this point in time.

Not at the very beginnings of 'religion'.

when it comes to religion...people will take the side most comfortable (within their realm) and use it *unconditionally* to serve themselves the most, as well as others. They will perpertrate this 'stance' - one side of the equation (what is the total sum of the equation?) to elicit or bring forth - 360 degrees.

[KIWI]

Zoroastrianism is one of the oldest but perhaps most misunderstood religions still practised today.

Its spiritual doctrines on heaven, hell and resurrection heavily influenced Islam and Christianity.

But emigration, conversion to Islam and centuries of oppression mean their numbers in Iran have dwindled to around 45,000.



[attachment=1:2m5vm6ey]1.jpg[/attachment:2m5vm6ey]

the same symbol but seen as a boat,.............whale-catcher ?

or am I a just another.........

[attachment=0:2m5vm6ey]infidel.jpg[/attachment:2m5vm6ey]

[Cogburn]

Ahhh... you almost got it, Ducky.

Pythagoras is honored in Western tradition because he divorced religion from geometry.

Investigation of the roots of sacred geometry require you to replace it and view the world without the perspective of algebra.

How do you build a temple that can last 5,000 years without algebra? Because you have long since known more intuitive yet equally accurate ways of viewing the physical universe.

Esoteric mystery schools are the intellectual decedents of the ancient religions long since out of practice. Operative religions that enabled people as intellectually capable as you or I to deal with a world that was beyond their ability to describe.

If it didn't work for them, they abandoned it. If it did work, it became "law" or "dogma". Such lines of thought were never abandoned. By way of Pythagoras, Plato and their intellectual descendants the esoteric components were removed and half of the description of reality was lost.

Most esoteric mystery schools begin with re-infusing such relationships.

[Ducky]

Ahhh... you almost got it, Ducky.

I'm 'gettin there' man. Working between logistics/mathematics/syncronysities...everything. It's fuckin hard darlin. So much to concider.


Pythagoras is honored in Western tradition because he divorced religion from geometry.

Believe it or not, I've been trying to study this in the last 5 consequtive years. So much info to wipe through.


Investigation of the roots of sacred geometry require you to replace it and view the world without the perspective of algebra.

When I think of this approach, I get alll tingly inside. Not sexual, just information overload and then some. I wish I could type faster than my hands would allow.


How do you build a temple that can last 5,000 years without algebra? Because you have long since known more intuitive yet equally accurate ways of viewing the physical universe.

Which temple? ANY TEMPLE? The Jewish Temple?


Esoteric mystery schools are the intellectual decedents of the ancient religions long since out of practice. Operative religions that enabled people as intellectually capable as you or I to deal with a world that was beyond their ability to describe.

If it didn't work for them, they abandoned it. If it did work, it became "law" or "dogma". Such lines of thought were never abandoned. By way of Pythagoras, Plato and their intellectual descendants the esoteric components were removed and half of the description of reality was lost.

Most esoteric mystery schools begin with re-infusing such relationships.

Always wondered WHY, the 'Mysteries of Life' were not shown to everyone.

[Cogburn]

You have to want the knowledge or it will never have real meaning. It's obscured precisely so you have to look for it.

Follow the tingle. :)

Back to the thread, the real question is what is the connection between the hexagon, Babylon, Saturn and the Pleiades?

I'm not so far into the investigation to know the answer.

[Ducky]

I often wonder if 'certain' folks are privy to this knowledge?

[WarlordZeroOne]

The connection is easy the Design of that star or symble that goes that far back in life, is because every FUCKER likes it,sometimes you can't see wood for trees.