US abortion doctor is shot dead

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

[offsite:2jtvb06c]US abortion doctor is shot dead

A prominent US abortion doctor has been shot dead at a church in Wichita, in his home state of Kansas.

Sixty-seven year-old George Tiller was killed just after 1000 (1500 GMT) at the Reformation Lutheran Church.

Police say the attacker, a white man, then fled in a car. Local media report that a suspect is now in custody.

Dr Tiller, one of the few US doctors who performed so-called late-term abortions, had been vilified by some anti-abortionists.

His clinic had often been the site of demonstrations, and he was shot and wounded by an assailant 16 years ago.

Dr Tiller's lawyer, Dan Monnat, said he was gunned down as he served as an usher during a morning service.

BBC News | US abortion doctor is shot dead (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8076253.stm)[/offsite:2jtvb06c]

More details: AlterNet | BREAKING: Abortion Doctor George Tiller Shot Dead at His Kansas Church (http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/140372/breaking:_abortion_doctor_george_tiller_shot_dead_ at_his_kansas_church/)

Don't you kill them unborn babies, wait until they're old enough to shoot back.

Then kill 'em when they're not looking.

In church...

[theeindiee]

karma is SUCH a bitch. "Oh.... so I died because I spent my life killing in utero babies old enough to be sentient beings? Makes sense." On to the next life. Late term abortion is fucked, dude. What can I say?

[apeci]

Damn... I remember Phill Kline, the county DA one county over, going after Tiller with over a hundred charges. The dude was one sick fuck. Anyone who practices partial-birth abortions deserves to be subject to the procedure. If I were on this guy's jury, I'd acquit.

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

"Karma" would have dictated that he die with his head crushed by the church doors.

Or would that fall more in line with irony?

[sidd]

the church doors are ths ones protecting this filth

[guinnessford]

Now, can someone please explain to me why killing one person, or human is less harmful than kiling another?

Didnt this shooter just basically do what hes supposedly against? Killing?

[apeci]

I believe barbaric serial murderers should expect to face summary justice as Tiller did. He was making headlines around here for a while. I'm glad he's dead.

[boycotteverything]

you can take the jebby outa the church but you can't take the church outa the jebby.

[sidd]

anyways doctors are just the front lines for the pharmaceutical companies

[apeci]

you can take the jebby outa the church but you can't take the church outa the jebby.
You think someone who kills an infant days from birth deserves otherwise? Most of his court battles here have stemmed from the fact that partial-birth abortions are illegal unless continuing the pregnancy would place the mother's life in danger. So what did he do? "Ma'am, you're depressed. Your life is in danger." Perfectly healthy kids, he crashed through their skulls and ripped out their brains. He's getting off easy.

[skunk]

Now, can someone please explain to me why killing one person, or human is less harmful than kiling another?

Didnt this shooter just basically do what hes supposedly against? Killing?

I think you hit the heart of the matter, or in this case, baby brains.

[apeci]

Would it have been wrong to kill Hitler when he first started gassing BE's relatives? Would it be an act in defense of the innocent? I think he who brought justice to Tiller was defending the most innocent.

[skunk]

I think its hypocritical to defend one murder over another. What the man did was not right, in fact, highly immoral. However, that does not justify his death. Killing is an easy thing. Letting him live with the consequences of his actions would have been much more painful in my opinion.

I'm playing the devil's advocate here apeci, trying to make you think. Apparently critical thinking isn't one of your finer qualities :mrgreen: .

[blupblup]

I don't think what this man did was right in any way.... it was pretty disturbing to kill "babies" so close to birth.

BUT....this just about sums up religion for me.

The guy get's MURDERED in a CHURCH???
And most of the people being interviewed after were all like "yep, he dun got his retribution" "he got what he deserved"
Isn't that for god to choose? If that's what they believe...

This whole incident is and most of the "supporters/defenders" of his murder are completely hypocritical.

[boycotteverything]

Would it have been wrong to kill Hitler when he first started gassing BE's relatives? Well- I see your point on Uncle Schickelgruber. But what about the resulting soap shortage?

[Foxtrot Oscar]

The guy provided a service. Ok, so it's not the same as a guy that makes cheese, but still it's just a service.

If there was no demand for such a service, he wouldn't have been doing it.

Moral of the story.

Don't shoot the messenger, kinda!

Fox

[apeci]

There's a market demand for providing bound and gagged red headed five-year-olds as sex slaves. I'd support the execution of such operators as well.


I think its hypocritical to defend one murder over another. What the man did was not right, in fact, highly immoral. However, that does not justify his death. Killing is an easy thing. Letting him live with the consequences of his actions would have been much more painful in my opinion.

I'm playing the devil's advocate here apeci, trying to make you think. Apparently critical thinking isn't one of your finer qualities :mrgreen: .
No you're just wasting keystrokes reviewing points that are moot. I agree, letting him live and slowly pulling out his small intestine over the course of a week would have been more appropriate.

[skunk]

Well there'll always be employment for you in the prison execution market. I hear its a pretty stable job.


No you're just wasting keystrokes reviewing points that are moot.

I suppose I shouldn't waste my time with hypocrites, you're right.

[apeci]

I don't support state execution.

[boycotteverything]

Isn't anyone who believes that abortion is the equivalent of murdering children morally conjoined to protect those children by any means necessary? That you term this murder an "execution" would argue that. It's simple logical extension. But at the same time vigilantism is the slipperiest of all slippery slopes and risks American legal prerogatives devolving into some sort of wild west Sharia. I think you need to calm down and stop fantasizing about creative methods of torment and put your energy into a political solution.

[boycotteverything]

Oh- and I don't see you as a hypocrite. You're simply advocating a view of justice that is self-defeating in the long term. Not hypocritical, just wrong. But you're still cute.

[hp]

Saw on CNN where a LE person stated the internet is being heavily monitored to try to determine if more than one person was involved. Primarily the pro-life and abortion groups.

Anyone still think monitoring and mining doesn't happen.

[apeci]

Isn't anyone who believes that abortion is the equivalent of murdering children morally conjoined to protect those children by any means necessary? That you term this murder an "execution" would argue that. It's simple logical extension. But at the same time vigilantism is the slipperiest of all slippery slopes and risks American legal prerogatives devolving into some sort of wild west Sharia. I think you need to calm down and stop fantasizing about creative methods of torment and put your energy into a political solution.
Nah.

[boycotteverything]

Nah? To what? There are 5 distinct propositions in my comment. Nah to all 5?

[Ducky]

You think someone who kills an infant days from birth deserves otherwise? Most of his court battles here have stemmed from the fact that partial-birth abortions are illegal unless continuing the pregnancy would place the mother's life in danger. So what did he do? "Ma'am, you're depressed. Your life is in danger." Perfectly healthy kids, he crashed through their skulls and ripped out their brains. He's getting off easy.

Disturbing, disgusting, and any other negative connotations one can muster up. I remember making a thread about 'partial birth abortions'. Don't get me going on that one.

And with that in mind:

Part of me is saying, "Looks good on that sonofabitch!"
The other part says, "He didn't deserve to be shot; should have went to trial."

But there'd be no trial. There'd be nothing. Bastard would have continued doing what he was doing until someone or a bullet put a stop to it.

[Foxtrot Oscar]

Is it a legal procedure?

This is a truly nasty debate to be having, but the dead Dr was in the legal right.

It's no different legally to someone shooting you Ducky on the ground that people should clean their own toilets.

It's a legally performed service.

Maybe this will cause enough public opinion to make policy.

Fox

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

[offsite:2z8mtyim]Intact dilation and extraction (IDX or intact D&X), also known as intact dilation and evacuation (intact D&E), dilation and extraction (D&X), intrauterine cranial decompression and controversially in the United States as partial birth abortion, is a surgical abortion wherein an intact fetus is removed from the uterus via the cervix. The procedure may also be used to remove a deceased fetus that is developed enough to require dilation of the cervix for its extraction. [1]

Though the procedure has had a low rate of usage, representing 0.17% (2,232 of 1,313,000) of all abortions in the United States in the year 2000, according to voluntary responses to an Alan Guttmacher Institute survey,[2] it has developed into a focal point of the abortion debate. In the United States, intact dilation and extraction was made illegal in most circumstances by the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart.

Wiki | Intact dilation and extraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_extraction)

emphasis mine[/offsite:2z8mtyim]

Gruesome: NRLC | Partial Birth Abortion (http://www.nrlc.org/ABORTION/pba/diagram.html)

[Ducky]

I know exactly what you're saying Fox.

Big difference between me cleaning out someone's toilet and clearing the debris out of the plumbing, as opposed to an abortion doctor cleaning someone's 'plumbing' and discarding a baby down the toilet.

Nasty nasty nasty subject for anyone to get into. :(

All I can say is...

If it's a legal procedure and deemed acceptable, then I shouldn't have a problem with it Right? I should just shut the fuck up and accept the law, and let it end there Right?

In all good conscience...I can't. There's something drastically wrong with that.

I guess it goes back to my own belief structures (which aren't too far off from anyone elses)

Protests haven't helped the situation.
Education is the shits.

So what now?

Let me put it this way, and mabey you'll all see what I'm trying to say:

What's the difference between a sonofawhore breaking into a home and shooting a newborn baby laying in the crib to partial live abortion?

[boycotteverything]

Is it a legal procedure?

This is a truly nasty debate to be having, but the dead Dr was in the legal right.

It's no different legally to someone shooting you Ducky on the ground that people should clean their own toilets.

It's a legally performed service.

Maybe this will cause enough public opinion to make policy.

Foxthe voice of reason.

[boycotteverything]

What's the difference between a sonofawhore breaking into a home and shooting a newborn baby laying in the crib to partial live abortion?simple answer: the law. get it?

[Ducky]

What's the difference between a sonofawhore breaking into a home and shooting a newborn baby laying in the crib to partial live abortion?simple answer: the law. get it?

Oh I get it... :?

I was half expecting a different answer from you BE. Mabey alone the lines of 'resisting the borg', or 'boycott the stupid LAWS out there', or something other than, "it is what it is..."

[boycotteverything]

i'm very much pro choice so it comports with my ideology. in this case it's a good law.

[apeci]

I don't particularly care that some politician off in some distant land scribbled some words on a piece of paper which he dictates everyone else lives by. Chattel slavery was legal, too. Would a slave have been in the right to kill their master? The law said the slaves were property. The law said they weren't human. The law would have considered that a work-related equipment malfunction.

If a woman wants to end her pregnancy, she has every right to do so. If a doctor kills a human being without their consent, they are murdering an innocent. I draw the line at 8 weeks, as soon as the possibility for sentience exists, but others think a fetus isn't a human until later. However there is no rational argument to be made that a fetus a few weeks from delivery, at an age where a cesarean would produce a healthy child ready for adoption, can be killed by a third party without legitimate defensive or retributive action. Tiller was a brutal and disgusting criminal. Indeed, vigilantism is a slippery slope. But it gets the job done.

[skunk]

I don't support state execution.

That's right, you only sponsor murder if its done by a lynch mob. Fuck the state, watch out for apeci and crew.

[apeci]

Murder is only murder when one kills an innocent.

And yes, fuck the State.

[skunk]

Ah innocence, quite an interesting conundrum. Who is really innocent? Would you like to kill the mothers who wanted to have late term abortions as well? I mean while we're at it, let's kill the nurses who work at the clinics, and the fathers of the children for letting this happen.

Talk about slippery slopes...

[boycotteverything]

If a woman wants to end her pregnancy, she has every right to do so. If a doctor kills a human being without their consent, they are murdering an innocent. ...Chattel slavery was legal, too. Would a slave have been in the right to kill their master?You make decent points except that your analogy is flawed. This has nothing to to with forced servitude- but of a woman's right to her own body. There's no contradiction here. I can hold that a slave has the right to all necessary means to secure his freedom and still hold that a woman has the absolute right to ownership of herself. These rights are both absolute and eclipse the rights of a foetus. And while I sympathize with your position I still find the right of a woman to control of her being and her body to be the superior right in this case.

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

Why should the rights of the parasite trump the host?

[Ducky]

Why should the rights of the parasite trump the host?

Then we should concider where about in a pregnancy does a fetus stop being a fetus and become a viable baby.

8 weeks?
10 weeks?

When a heartbeat is first discovered?

These all occur within the 1st trimester.

Seems to me that the doctor wasn't killed for performing early stage fetal abortions.

[boycotteverything]

8 weeks?
10 weeks?how about at birth?

[apeci]

You make decent points except that your analogy is flawed. This has nothing to to with forced servitude- but of a woman's right to her own body. There's no contradiction here. I can hold that a slave has the right to all necessary means to secure his freedom and still hold that a woman has the absolute right to ownership of herself. These rights are both absolute and eclipse the rights of a foetus. And while I sympathize with your position I still find the right of a woman to control of her being and her body to be the superior right in this case.
I never objected to the right of a woman to control her own body. But that right does not extend to the hands of a third party. If you tell me to kill someone, and I go ahead and do it, are you the murderer, or am I? I was acting on your behalf, on your wishes, with your permission, but the person I killed was not you. It was someone else entirely. I may have been your agent, but I am also a free-thinking individual able to decide how to act. I acted, and due to my action a living human being that never even had the chance to harm another individual is dead. Big difference here.

A woman can pop some pills or drink some tea or whatever to end her pregnancy at any stage along the way and there should be nothing preventing her from doing so. But for someone else to come in and forcefully kill the child she carries is no different from a kidnapper killing some brat even if the parent was ready to kill the kid themselves.

[boycotteverything]

But wouldn't the tea maker be similarly complicit? You're arguing means and methods. That's a province better left to engineers than doctors or the ditzes who put off their decision till the end of the third trimester. Stupid people and their enablers will always be with us. That's just the way it is. Are they murderers? I think not.

[apeci]

I'm an engineer... can't help it.

No, they aren't murderers. They handed the tool to another, the mother, and she did the act. Show me a woman 8 months pregnant with a scalpel and suction hose ready to pop a squat, squeeze out half her kid, crack open his skull, and suck out his brain, maybe that will be a case of partial-birth abortion that is not outright murder.

[boycotteverything]

You're still deliberately overlooking the presidence of rights. That's the basic issue: A woman's right to ownership of her body versus the right of the state or any ad hoc societal syndicate to assume control over her. The rights of the foetus are secondary. Now while you can attach all the emotion and horror to the procedure that you wish, the right of the woman to ownership of herself still supersedes the rights of any observer, be it the state or (as in your case) the concerned neighbor. That's just the way it is in this constitutional republic.

[apeci]

Never objected. Remove the 8 month old child, incubate it if needed, and adopt it out. A doctor killing it is murder.

[boycotteverything]

Never objected. Remove the 8 month old child, incubate it if needed, and adopt it out.I don't disagree with that.

[boycotteverything]

If a child comes to term and is aborted but can be saved then I agree that killing that child is nothing less than an act of gratuitous sadism. And laws should be changed to reflect that truth.

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

Give it to Octomom, one more won't make a difference...

[apeci]

If a child comes to term and is aborted but can be saved then I agree that killing that child is nothing less than an act of gratuitous sadism. And laws should be changed to reflect that truth.
And while people kneel to the politicians and beg for the State to take up their plight, the slaughter of innocent children continues. At least Tiller's campaign does so no more.

[boycotteverything]

I feel that once a woman signs that paper agreeing to an abortion she relinquishes her rights to the fruits of the result. Simple.

[boycotteverything]

Any child born alive immediately enjoys the rights guaranteed by the Declaration and the Constitution. The key operative word being 'born.'

[apeci]

Define born. Something along the lines of emergence from the uterus? How about if the child is born alive, 12 weeks old, but dies after a few seconds because it can't breathe. Nature running its course? What if you take a 9 month old, born naturally, and then shove it into a pool of water where it soon dies... because it can't breathe. Still nature running its course?

Of course the answer is obvious... the doctor can kill it in the womb, so all they remove is the carcus. But since when does the geographic location of an individual determine whether or not they have a right to life? Oh right... black Americans in the 19th century... I guess time frame matters, too.

A woman can wiggle her fingers over whatever piece of paper she wishes but if anyone else kills her child, they're a murderer. You must be confused though... I thought it was clear... Tiller is well known in this city for practicing partial-birth abortions and frequently seeking out legal loopholes to afford him the protection to do so. Fortunately the Court was unable to protect him from true justice.

[lala]

This is another big one, it a shame they haven't worked out how to transplant them to all the mum that carn't get pregent . . . but at the end of the day there are going to be unwanted pregency. . . . and if they didn't intervene with alot they would go back to the old coat hanger days . . . and there is hundreds of reasons people go through this, rape pregency, illness of the unborn child . . . that the thing its not black and white, there's alot of gray area's. . .but at the same token there are some doctors that abuse there power . . . :shock:

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

[offsite:1mp1fyyh]Nebraska physician vows to keep Tiller's abortion clinic open

WICHITA, Kan. — Women's Health Care Services, the clinic that has been bombed, blockaded and vandalized for more than 20 years because late-term abortions are performed there, will be closed this week to mourn the slaying Sunday of founder George Tiller.

But the clinic will resume normal operations next Monday, said LeRoy Carhart, a Nebraska physician who has been coming to Tiller's clinic on a rotating basis for more than 10 years now.

"What people need to know is... the women's services that we provided for 30 years are not going to change," Carhart said. "The same abortion services will remain available in Wichita."

Tiller, 67, was shot to death just after 10 a.m. Sunday in the foyer of Reformation Lutheran Church, where he was serving as an usher.

Scott Roeder, 51, of Merriam, has been arrested in connection with the shooting, according to the Johnson County Sheriff's Office. He remains incarcerated at the Sedgwick County Jail pending the filing of charges.

Carhart said he drove to Wichita last night. He met with clinic staff members and Tiller's wife and daughters Monday morning.

"It was a really, really good meeting," Carhart said. "It was a chance to go over all the important things and the good things George had done for each of us, and ways that we could appreciate all that he's done for the community and the women of this country.

"His daughters and his wife are doing far better than I would be doing if I just lost my life partner or my mother or father," he said.

Patients who had appointments this week have been notified of the clinic's closing, and other arrangements have been made, Carhart said.

"Starting next Monday we should be back to 100 percent," he said.

Carhart said he and two other out-of-state doctors have been rotating weekly shifts at the clinic, and that will continue.

McClatchy | Nebraska physician vows to keep Tiller's abortion clinic open (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/69212.html)[/offsite:1mp1fyyh]

And -

[offsite:1mp1fyyh]Abortion opponents expect political backlash from Tiller's shooting

WICHITA — The bullet that killed George Tiller on Sunday did what lawmakers, prosecutors and grassroots activists never could: end the career of the nation's most prominent abortion provider.

But those who long fought against Tiller's work now worry Sunday's act of vigilantism will set back efforts to restrict abortion and will poison the debate — possibly for years.

"I think he (Tiller) was a lawbreaker," said Rep. Scott Schwab, an Olathe Republican who supports more abortion restrictions. "But this is not how you win … you win by winning hearts, not by stopping them from beating."

Until Sunday, Kansas' abortion debate looked to be settling into a staid middle age. Sure, Tiller's clinic was still subject to daily protests. Sure, every year saw new attempts to restrict abortions in the Legislature. But the debate more and more hinged on hypertechnical changes to state statute.

It was a battle waged with news releases and legislative hearings, not bullets or bombs.

That changed Sunday when Tiller's death left both sides looking for answers, and speculating about the future.

Abortion-rights supporters said Sunday's killing shows the danger of heated ideological rhetoric, and the continued need to protect women's right to abortion.

"We're not going to let the terrorists win," said Peter Brownlie, president of Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri.

Anti-abortion leaders denounced Sunday's shooting as a vicious and unpardonable act.

One of Tiller's most dogged critics, Phill Kline, former attorney general and former Johnson County district attorney, sent a statement to reporters saying he was "stunned by this lawless and violent act, which must be condemned and should be met with the full force of law."

Mark Gietzen of Wichita, who has organized 1,846 consecutive days of protests outside Tiller's clinic, said Sunday's killing could deal a significant public relations blow to abortion opponents

McClatchy | Abortion opponents expect political backlash from Tiller's shooting (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/314/story/69156.html)[/offsite:1mp1fyyh]

[lala]

Look at them all running for cover so they "look good" in the public eye . . . what ever side there on . . . all you got there is a lot of I, I, I, and me, me, me its just a fucken joke . . . :shock:

[apeci]

See, I'm right out in the open. Fuck the shithead. It's hot out. Let's swim in his blood!

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

If history is any indication it's gonna get busy:

[offsite:1lp8tb1c]The Murder of Dr. Tiller, a Foreshadowing

For those who would like to think today's murder in church of Dr. George Tiller, an abortion provider, is an isolated incident, here's the horrifying news: You are wrong. The pattern is clear and frightening.

In March 1993, three months into the administration of our first pro-choice president, Bill Clinton, abortion provider Dr. David Gunn was murdered in Pensacola, Florida. That was the beginning of what would become a five-fold increase in violence against abortion providers throughout the Clinton years.

Today's assassination of Dr. George Tiller comes 5 months into the term of our second pro-choice president. For anyone who would like to believe that this is a statistical anomaly, a coincidence that doesn't portend anything, again, you are wrong.

During the entire Bush administration, from 2000-2008 there were no murders.

During the Clinton era, between 1994-2000 there were 6 abortion providers and clinic staff murdered, and 17 attempted murders of abortion providers. There were 12 bombings or arsons during the Clinton years.

During the Bush administration, not only were there no murders, there were no attempted murders. There was one clinic bombing during the Bush years.

One can only conclude that like terrorist sleeper cells, these extremists have now been set in motion. Indeed the evidence is already there. The chatter, the threats, the hate-filled rhetoric are abundant.

In the last year of the Bush administration there were 396 harassing calls to abortion clinics. In just the first four months of the Obama administration that number has jumped to 1401.

And so the execution of Tiller, 67, is not only tragic but ominous.

H | The Murder of Dr. Tiller, a Foreshadowing (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cristina-page/the-murder-of-dr-tiller-a_b_209562.html)[/offsite:1lp8tb1c]

[apeci]

It's not surprising. Congress' Freedom of Choice Act this year prompted much outcry from across the country, leading several states including my own to draft and pass legislation affirming Tenth Amendment sovereignty in the face of yet another gross federal encroachment on state powers. The feds set the stage, the actors were there all along.

[Lexion]

If a doctor kills a human being without their consent, they are murdering an innocent.

So, every person that dies during
any surgery has been murdered ?

Your words, not mine.

Don't claim "out of context", either.

Read your statement.

Where do YOU draw the line ?

Just abortion ?

Did the shooter commit "justifiable"
homicide ?

Did the Doctor ?

Did the Doctor who lost a heart
patient 20 min. ago commit murder ?

Have you read the laws for late term
abortions ?

"The birth will cause irreparable harm
to the mother".

Oh wait...schemantics, as Ducks would
say.

Get the whole picture and present it,
not just your skewed, propoganda laced
view.

Regards,
Lex

[apeci]

... whatevah. You knows what I'm sayin, putz.



Have you read the laws for late term
abortions ?

"The birth will cause irreparable harm
to the mother".

Oh wait...schemantics, as Ducks would
say.

Have you read anything about Tiller? Do you know anything about the DA going after him a cpl years ago? It was huge here since his recent election was controversial. Depression... he diagnosed depression as his medical cause to terminate. "Temporary depression," at that. Soooooo instead of removing the kid alive and well, they just killed him... because his records say he says she said she was sad.

[boycotteverything]

I don't believe that is a fair and unbiased assessment.

[apeci]

Nor do I.

[boycotteverything]

taliban justice.

[skunk]

... whatevah. You knows what I'm sayin, putz.


If we knew what you were talking about this discussion wouldn't have continued past the first page.

[apeci]

Your collectivist rhetoric is no match for my leet knowingmostpeopleherearesmarterthanyou skillz.

[skunk]

So everyone who disagrees with you is a "collectivist"? Is that supposed to be an insult? Wouldn't collectivist imply authoritarian as well? I'm about as far from that side of the spectrum as possible dumb shit.

I'm with lex on this one. You must be retarded.

[skunk]

Didn't your mama ever teach you two wrongs don't make a right?

[apeci]

Have you been sitting there burning a hole in the screen with your eyes?

[boycotteverything]

what's the matter? you've gotta lighten up.

[boycotteverything]

Well it looks like Dr. Tiller's clinic will be shut. Good news for every 'christian' moralist who wants to force 10 year old incest victims to give birth to their fathers' babies.

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

For a week...

[pack3tg0st]

Pro-life people willing to kill... Oh the Irony...

And they probably support the Death Penalty...

also notice how the majority of the violent anti-abortion terrorists are male?

curious, no?

[GhostOfCaptSpaulding]

[offsite:2rj1wn5m]With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg (1933 - ), quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999[/offsite:2rj1wn5m]

A Heartbreaking Choice (http://www.aheartbreakingchoice.com/)

[pack3tg0st]

Religion is the strongest placebo effect I've ever seen...

[GeneralStriker]

In Memory of Dr. George Tiller
August 8, 1941 - May 31, 2009
We wish peace to his family during this time of tragedy.

Thanks for that link, Goos.

[Ducky]

The way I figure, if it wasn't Dr. Tiller it'd be someone else. They'd be mourning someone else at this point.

And... if the next poor sonofabitch gets off'd (hopefully not), then thére'll be somebody else after that to take up the cause.

Just another link in the chain of schemantics.

Eh Lex?

[apeci]

Just might make a few other doctors think twice before plunging their blade into the brain of an infant.

[pack3tg0st]

By that logic, perhaps I should go on a born again christian rampage...

walk into evangelical churches and open fire...

Might make a few other religious nuts think twice before killing doctors.

[skunk]

I always find it ironic when people support the death penalty and war, but are against abortion. Just as long as the people being killed are "bad guys" its ok, right?

[apeci]

By that logic, perhaps I should go on a born again christian rampage...

walk into evangelical churches and open fire...

Might make a few other religious nuts think twice before killing doctors.
You're welcome to try, but I think the numbers are a bit off.

[Ducky]

Definition of 'Murder' (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/murder)

[offsite:1222esjc]Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).[/offsite:1222esjc]

Premeditation.

Doesn't an abortionist have to think about the procedure before hand, in order to decide his course of actions?

I think that pretty much falls under that cateGORY.

[pack3tg0st]

So... 12 yr old girls who have been raped by their uncles should be forced to carry the baby to term?

are we serious?

If ya don't like abortion, don't get one.

[pack3tg0st]

Definition of 'Murder' (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/murder)

[offsite:2yk07gkb]Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).[/offsite:2yk07gkb]

Premeditation.

Doesn't an abortionist have to think about the procedure before hand, in order to decide his course of actions?

I think that pretty much falls under that cateGORY.

This would also include the soldiery, judges, juries and law enforcement.