What did the counter-culture of the 60s actually accomplish?

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

I know this question will bring howls of indignation and various only silliness.
But I do think it IS a valid question.
What was really accomplished?
Did they stop the Vietnam War?
They sure didn't.
Did they stop any further wars from happening?
Nope.

So, really, what did they accomplish?

[mojo]

i was conceived.....nuff said.

[Bellsonrich]

Amazing music, amazing books and some other amazing shit.

[mojo]

Amazing music,

ohh yeah, Blue Cheer, MC5 and Ironbutterfly......sweet.

[Ducky]

They let their hair grow long...REAL LONG.

Some of the women even got away with camel toes.

Sorry, carry-over from another thread lololol

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

No, what did they accomplish?
What of what they set out to do did they actually achieve?

Other than spitting on guys who got sent into a shitty situation of a war?

I mean I like a few songs of the era too but I hardly call that great accomplishments.
Especially given how high they set their goals.

So, seriously, what did they achieve?

[apeci]

It created a generation of politicians who did so much acid they permanently became detached from reality and actually believe socialism is good and can work.

[Ducky]

* Sitins/peaceful protests that led to behind the scenes changes in legislatures.
* Paved the way from strict regimental routines in society to a more freer way of living. They encouraged critical thinking.
* Iconic music - *folk singing* - were in themselves, silent protests to the presiding war at the time.

These, and many other reasons were much needed 'stepping stones'.

We were stagnating. Somebody had to get the ball rolling.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

* Sitins/peaceful protests that led to behind the scenes changes in legislatures.

Wrong, Gandhi introduced and used that idea.
Which was then used by MLK Jr. for the civil rights movement.



* Paved the way from strict regimental routines in society to a more freer way of living. They encouraged critical thinking.

They did? Have you looked around you recently?



* Iconic music - *folk singing* - were in themselves, silent protests to the presiding war at the time.

Rehash of old stuff and some of it wasn't even good rehashing.

[Lexion]

Wrong, Gandhi introduced and used that idea.
Which was then used by MLK Jr. for the civil rights movement.

Which happened in the fucking 60's.

Are you that fucking moronic ?

Lex

[hp]

Are you that fucking moronic ?

Which society allows because of the '60s.

[hp]

It create a boom in the rolling paper and incense markets.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Wrong, Gandhi introduced and used that idea.
Which was then used by MLK Jr. for the civil rights movement.

Which happened in the fucking 60's.

Are you that fucking moronic ?

Lex

Yo dipshit.
Read the first sentence.
Gandhi was not during the sixties.
He died in 48.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Are you that fucking moronic ?

Which society allows because of the '60s.


Calling bullshit on this one.

[Lexion]

And, I'm allowed to wear shirts like :

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/Lexion07/MVC-005S-1.jpg

Yeah baby !!!

[mojo]

Are you that fucking moronic ?

Which society allows because of the '60s.


Calling bullshit on this one.

lol, i actually think that was a joke.

its ok HP i got it.

[Cogburn]

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/Lexion07/MVC-005S-1.jpg
I wear dashikis but I don't do leather pants. That's a little too "Steven Tyler" for my personal dress code. :)

But as to the OP.... the only lasting effects of the 60s counter-culture are all the institutions meant to manage and combat it.

The phenomenons that were Martin Luther King, Jr, Malcom X, and JFK are impossible in 2009.

Obama doesn't count. Beyond being bought and paid for by commercial interests, he lacks the breadth of vision exemplified by JFK and the dedication to purpose of MLK or Malcom X. Not to mention most of Obama's speeches are rewarmed versions of FDR's stump speeches, sometimes virtually verbatim.

Oh wait... it did give us nuwaubianism and a Western appreciation for the thai stick.

Happy Kwanza!

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Well, there's no accounting for taste lex or lack there of.
:lol:

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

lol, i actually think that was a joke.

its ok HP i got it.

As did I.
But I played along. :D
I do that.

[JiveTurkey]

I know this question will bring howls of indignation and various only silliness.
But I do think it IS a valid question.
What was really accomplished?
Did they stop the Vietnam War?
They sure didn't.
Did they stop any further wars from happening?
Nope.

So, really, what did they accomplish?


Absolutely nothing. All they did was inspire future generations to attach themselves to senseless causes (future fucking tree huggers in other words) in the name of doing good while in actuality only continuing to conform to any group that will have them.

Fucking hippies amounted to little more than a bunch of overly pampered fucks who saw a chance to abuse every drug known to man, fuck anything that got close enough and join together in collective laziness and a common distaste for maturity.

Fuck the 60s and fuck the hippies. They contributed NOTHING to society.

And this coming from a lover of marijuana and psychadelics.

Fuck them in the stupid asses.

They were the emos of their time.

[JiveTurkey]

And, I'm allowed to wear shirts like :

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/Lexion07/MVC-005S-1.jpg

Yeah baby !!!



Lex, I dig your whole straight to the point assholishness (new word?) but that fucking picture terrifies me. What were you on that possessed you to put that outfit together? Were you taking the chopper to the black pride rally?

Seriously man, never post that picture again. Please.

I say this with the utmost respect as I continue to spread this horrid image through quoting you.


I'm part of the problem. Fuck the solution.

[Cogburn]

They were the emos of their time.Smite for truth.

[pack3tg0st]

who saw a chance to abuse every drug known to man, fuck anything that got close enough and join together in collective laziness and a common distaste for maturity.

Is it just me or does this seem like "living the dream?"

[JiveTurkey]

who saw a chance to abuse every drug known to man, fuck anything that got close enough and join together in collective laziness and a common distaste for maturity.

Is it just me or does this seem like "living the dream?"


It's you.

Pushing it too far is as lame as not far enough.

[pack3tg0st]

I'm drunk off my own homebrew right now... so forgive the left field sounding questions....

but, do you happen to be a Metalhead Jasn?

I just found a new band... from greece... they're awesome... Inactive Messiah

http://www.myspace.com/inactivemessiah

[guinnessford]

I wasnt there, and cant speak for exactly what happened.

I think just about the only thing that was accomplished was what Rosa Parks got done.

And even that isnt complete to this day, so yeah Wraith, not much really.

Maybe showing people that they can sit around chanting about getting shit done, and not really doing it.

[JiveTurkey]

I'm drunk off my own homebrew right now... so forgive the left field sounding questions....

but, do you happen to be a Metalhead Jasn?

I just found a new band... from greece... they're awesome... Inactive Messiah

http://www.myspace.com/inactivemessiah


Nope, not a metalhead amigo.

[pack3tg0st]

Damn...

Metal rules... real metal though...

not this shit:

http://www.junkonline.net/assets/0000/0931/metalskool_std.jpg

[GeneralStriker]

So, really, what did they accomplish?no more, no less than any other generation.

[Foxtrot Oscar]

PKD.

That's enough. Although most of his best work was written in the 70's, it was the fucked up speed induced acid laced weeks of no sleep from the 60's that provided the materials.

He was never a damm tree hugger either.

Give Jasn another decade or so, and maybe a class or 2 so the prick can learn to construct a decent sentence. And then, well who knows!

Fox

[Royal]

We should not constrain progress or accomplishment to single time period. Great people who got the ball rolling for different issues, or ideas that effect us to this day, may have started in the 60s and become recognized decades later.

[Chorlton]

“What did the counter-culture of the 60s actually accomplish?”

What I could say is, If you werent there and If you have to ask, you wont understand the answer, but I'll try.
Bear with me. First you have to explain the changes that took place after the 2nd world war.

There were 2 real defining periods of the 60's, pre Vietnam and post Vietnam.
Firstly, what you had in the 60's were the children of the people that had fought in the 2nd world war. Probably the first generation of kids that didnt have a war to fight. (Vietnam didnt even come into the equation, that came later and the major reasons for the 60's revolution was earlier than Vietnam. By the time Vietnam became a world problem, most of the 60's stuff was over).

Music and Money played a major part in the changes of the 60's. Pre and early 60's music was, in the US, big band music, Country music, Black 'Blues' and early Rock N Roll. Buddy Holly, Elvis (spit), Bill Hailey etc etc et. In the UK we didnt really even have that, all we had was boring Big Band music and other rubbish dumped upon us, Sinatra and his ilk.
Clothes were old fashioned and boring, haircuts were 'Short back and side's, cut way above the ears. Furniture was old fashioned. Everything was 'Old' and all people talked about was 'The War'.

In the UK particularly in the 60's we were reminded of the war on a daily basis. Even in the 60's we still had bombed out area's, every house still had a bomb shelter in the garden, there were old concrete AA bases in practically every park and open space, 'Pill box' machine gun buildings everywhere as well a huge concrete bases for barrage balloons.
Then at first the changes were small:
There was full employment, the rebuilding of the world after the war needed workers and there were a lot of young people attaining working age to take those jobs and the money.
Money was also a major factor. All of a sudden people had work and a much bigger disposable income and wanted to spend it. For the first time in humanity people could buy transport in the way of cars, motorbikes etc.

Kids didn’t want the crap old fashioned music anymore, they wanted to dance, to have fun, austerity was gone.
They bought Record Players and began buying music to dance to, they began buying clothes to go out to dances, THEN the ‘New Generation’ came along.
Music changed again, Rock and Roll, the old type of Rock and roll, very quickly got laughed at and young people began writing and playing music they liked. The Beach Boys, Mama’s & Papas, The Byrds, Dylan, The Beatles, The Stones, Gerry & The Pacemakers began pumping out a ‘New’ Rock N Roll. Clothes changed again to suit this music, hair styles changed to reflect peoples individuality and rebellion against the old styles.
Young people began to feel, for once, they had power. They had money, they had transport, they had clothes, they had ‘their places’ and they began flexing their muscles, demanding things they wanted rather than simply accepting what was provided for them. We began questioning the ‘Establishment’, began challenging the Church and religion.
Then, things changed again. For the third time in so many years. Music changed again. Hippies became more prominent and their philosophy of ‘Peace and Love’ and Vietnam got worse. Drugs and drug use became more widespread, as people tried to expand their consciousness. Vietnam was, in my opinion, nothing more than an older generation who had lived through 2 wars trying to continue their war, and they dragged young people into it, to help support their warped ideas. Anyone with half a brain knew that you couldn’t defeat a guerrilla army on their home ground, but the US wanted to try.
The Hippie movement and their doctrine gained momentum, spurred on by various musical changes, mainly Electronic and developments in recording technology, (though I still love 4 track Ampex machines).
As the 60’s came to an end, music changed again, over to more heavy rock, but by this time the youth of the 60’s had proven you could change things and were beginning to tire of it, moving into adulthood and marriage and kids, mortgages etc etc etc

So
“What did the counter-culture of the 60s actually accomplish?”
They, We, I, achieved the changes that give you your lifestyle now, gave you your right to protest, gave you your right to listen to the type of music YOU want, Gave you the right and the choices to wear what you want, have your hair the way you want it, gave you the power to change Governments, to change the world, because, no matter how much you deride us, we DID change the world.
And what do we have now, What generation do we have to change the world?. Unfortunately None, Nothing.
The world is going to hell in a handcart, and the youth of the world is so dazed its letting it happen.
Thank fucking Christ I wont be around to see the end game. Because it wont be nice.

But most of those freedoms you have now, were created by MY generation in the 60’s. Without us, You’d probably still be listening to Big Band Music, Harry Connick Junior, with your hair up above your ears wearing white socks and black trousers, and going to church 3 times a week, not allowed alcohol, or the drugs you now seem so blaze about, and which even we found out, didn’t do you any good.
Don’t question what we did, just thank fuck we did what we did.

[JiveTurkey]

PKD.

That's enough. Although most of his best work was written in the 70's, it was the fucked up speed induced acid laced weeks of no sleep from the 60's that provided the materials.

He was never a damm tree hugger either.

Give Jasn another decade or so, and maybe a class or 2 so the prick can learn to construct a decent sentence. And then, well who knows!

Fox

Don't forget the smack.

He wrote some crazy, but good, shit.

[JiveTurkey]

“What did the counter-culture of the 60s actually accomplish?”

What I could say is, If you werent there and If you have to ask, you wont understand the answer, but I'll try.
Bear with me. First you have to explain the changes that took place after the 2nd world war.

There were 2 real defining periods of the 60's, pre Vietnam and post Vietnam.
Firstly, what you had in the 60's were the children of the people that had fought in the 2nd world war. Probably the first generation of kids that didnt have a war to fight. (Vietnam didnt even come into the equation, that came later and the major reasons for the 60's revolution was earlier than Vietnam. By the time Vietnam became a world problem, most of the 60's stuff was over).

Music and Money played a major part in the changes of the 60's. Pre and early 60's music was, in the US, big band music, Country music, Black 'Blues' and early Rock N Roll. Buddy Holly, Elvis (spit), Bill Hailey etc etc et. In the UK we didnt really even have that, all we had was boring Big Band music and other rubbish dumped upon us, Sinatra and his ilk.
Clothes were old fashioned and boring, haircuts were 'Short back and side's, cut way above the ears. Furniture was old fashioned. Everything was 'Old' and all people talked about was 'The War'.

In the UK particularly in the 60's we were reminded of the war on a daily basis. Even in the 60's we still had bombed out area's, every house still had a bomb shelter in the garden, there were old concrete AA bases in practically every park and open space, 'Pill box' machine gun buildings everywhere as well a huge concrete bases for barrage balloons.
Then at first the changes were small:
There was full employment, the rebuilding of the world after the war needed workers and there were a lot of young people attaining working age to take those jobs and the money.
Money was also a major factor. All of a sudden people had work and a much bigger disposable income and wanted to spend it. For the first time in humanity people could buy transport in the way of cars, motorbikes etc.

Kids didn’t want the crap old fashioned music anymore, they wanted to dance, to have fun, austerity was gone.
They bought Record Players and began buying music to dance to, they began buying clothes to go out to dances, THEN the ‘New Generation’ came along.
Music changed again, Rock and Roll, the old type of Rock and roll, very quickly got laughed at and young people began writing and playing music they liked. The Beach Boys, Mama’s & Papas, The Byrds, Dylan, The Beatles, The Stones, Gerry & The Pacemakers began pumping out a ‘New’ Rock N Roll. Clothes changed again to suit this music, hair styles changed to reflect peoples individuality and rebellion against the old styles.
Young people began to feel, for once, they had power. They had money, they had transport, they had clothes, they had ‘their places’ and they began flexing their muscles, demanding things they wanted rather than simply accepting what was provided for them. We began questioning the ‘Establishment’, began challenging the Church and religion.
Then, things changed again. For the third time in so many years. Music changed again. Hippies became more prominent and their philosophy of ‘Peace and Love’ and Vietnam got worse. Drugs and drug use became more widespread, as people tried to expand their consciousness. Vietnam was, in my opinion, nothing more than an older generation who had lived through 2 wars trying to continue their war, and they dragged young people into it, to help support their warped ideas. Anyone with half a brain knew that you couldn’t defeat a guerrilla army on their home ground, but the US wanted to try.
The Hippie movement and their doctrine gained momentum, spurred on by various musical changes, mainly Electronic and developments in recording technology, (though I still love 4 track Ampex machines).
As the 60’s came to an end, music changed again, over to more heavy rock, but by this time the youth of the 60’s had proven you could change things and were beginning to tire of it, moving into adulthood and marriage and kids, mortgages etc etc etc

So
“What did the counter-culture of the 60s actually accomplish?”
They, We, I, achieved the changes that give you your lifestyle now, gave you your right to protest, gave you your right to listen to the type of music YOU want, Gave you the right and the choices to wear what you want, have your hair the way you want it, gave you the power to change Governments, to change the world, because, no matter how much you deride us, we DID change the world.
And what do we have now, What generation do we have to change the world?. Unfortunately None, Nothing.
The world is going to hell in a handcart, and the youth of the world is so dazed its letting it happen.
Thank fucking Christ I wont be around to see the end game. Because it wont be nice.

But most of those freedoms you have now, were created by MY generation in the 60’s. Without us, You’d probably still be listening to Big Band Music, Harry Connick Junior, with your hair up above your ears wearing white socks and black trousers, and going to church 3 times a week, not allowed alcohol, or the drugs you now seem so blaze about, and which even we found out, didn’t do you any good.
Don’t question what we did, just thank fuck we did what we did.


And what inspired YOUR generation?

Your generation also created the immense greed of the 80s and, in turn, the current state of things in this country.

After all, it's your children running this clusterfuck.


What legacy did the 60s leave? A society full of apathy.



Seen it all, done it all, ate it all, drank it all, fuck it all; Let's watch American Idol.

[Chorlton]

who saw a chance to abuse every drug known to man, fuck anything that got close enough and join together in collective laziness and a common distaste for maturity.

Is it just me or does this seem like "living the dream?"
Probably, but dont forget, untill we came along in the 60's, thats all you could do, dream.
Life was a tightly controlled regime

[Chorlton]

And what inspired YOUR generation?

Read what was written, read between the lines and think.
What inspired us? WE inspired us. We were pissed off at being told what to wear what to say what to listen to, when to shit, what to drink etc etc etc.
People preached rebellion in their music and we did just that


Your generation also created the immense greed of the 80s and, in turn, the current state of things in this country.

No we didnt. We probably bread the people that did but we didnt inspire them to do that, that was done by another splurge of wealth made available by technology



After all, it's your children running this clusterfuck.
No sir. Its the children of our children. And I would suggest, the influence of the US on the world. Preaching democracy and free enterprise to all when thats not what is needed.



What legacy did the 60s leave? A society full of apathy.
Apathy is the result of stupidity and addled brains. If you cant think for yourself dont blame us, thats your problem, your brain, your life.




Seen it all, done it all, ate it all, drank it all, fuck it all; Let's watch American Idol.
Please do. Its your generation that created it.

[JiveTurkey]

Inspired yourselves my ass.

It was natural social progression and then, into the middle 60s, that natural progression was fueled by copious amounts of drugs.

The 60s were as filled with follower mentality as the 50s, 40s, 30s, etc....


Social change DID take place in the 60s. Just as it did in the previous and future decades. Was that social change for the better? Some of it, sure. Most of it? Not from where I stand.

Fucking 20 somethings getting loaded up and following the other sheep to the protest to demand that the government "bring our boys home and end the senseless fucking war" and those same 20 somethings then gathering at airports to throw shit, fake puke, real puke and various other vile substances at those same boys they wanted home while calling them baby killers and fascists much to the shock of those troops who thought they were coming HOME.

That's the kind of peace, love and acceptance your generation had. Shit on a bunch of 18, 19 and 20 year old kids who were coming back from hell where they watched people next to them get their head split open and found themselves covered in their buddy's brains and blood. With many of those guys your generation looked down their nose at having been snatched from their lives against their will and sent to fight a war they didn't understand or believe in. Many of them being left and forgotten by the country that told them it was their duty to serve.


And since when are your generations' grand kids leading this whole mess? Has the world been taken over by people under or around the age of 25? I am a child of your generation and I grew up with children of your generation.

It's your generation that is still in charge.

It's your generation that either conformed or disappeared into useless obscurity.


Where is the peace love and harmony now?

Blacks still primarily live in poor black neighborhoods. Whites still primarily live in middle to upper class neighborhoods. Most of you still want to see your children date, marry and reproduce within your own race. The biggest worries of your generation are still financial concerns (perhaps even more so now than in the past). Fascism and socialism are spreading more rapidly now than ever. The religious still attempt to destroy those that believe differently than them. Senseless wars are still being fought against enemies that are not our own. Most of your generation will sit glued to the tube in anticipation of the next sex scandal or some such bullshit but barely perk an ear when someone is preaching against the control of the federal reserve bank or when the blurb passes the bottom of the screen about the senior citizens who can't work or take care of themselves are losing homes they paid for 40 years ago because they can't pay fucking property tax.


The argument you make for how and why the 60s changed things could be made by, almost verbatim, by children of the 70s, 80s, 90s and today. The music changed radically. The issues evolved. The shit is the same, it's just in a different package.


If you can give anything to your generation, it's that you motherfuckers are about as self aggrandizing a generation as has ever lived.




The times.....are always a changin.....

[JiveTurkey]

Oh, and lest I forget, your generation also provided nice public distractions while the powers that be perpetrated some of the worst crimes against humanity in history.

The few real heroes of your generation are dead and have been for a long time. Give or take one or two that have long been forgotten. The last one (cultural anyway) having put a bullet in is own head a few years back.


Change doesn't matter as long as you are only changing the insignificant.

[lala]

What you don't know what the 60's did. . . . try getting civil rights and voting rights for african americans. . . .were the womens liberation movement started . . . . your first nuclear submarine . . . the mini skirt. . . birth control. . . .the level of health care was raised. . . . the ford thunderbird was made. . . and the man on the moon thing!!!! For starters. . . gee's have you all been living in a cave. . . heaps of technology of today is an advancement from thing discover in 60 before and after , heres a few fibre optic's,pacemakers,internet, laser,LED's,computer mouse,cash dispenser,weather satallite,venus probe,tape cassettes automated post office. . . . leave the hippy's alone, there co :roll: ol, peace love and all that stuff, it carn't be that bad. . :smokin:

[Chorlton]

Sorry, you are wrong
By the time Vietnam came into the equation most of the defining stuff of the 60's was over
Your statement of

"It was natural social progression and then, into the middle 60s, that natural progression was fueled by copious amounts of drugs."
It was no social progression at all.
What we had was a generation coming home from wars who built families that were teenagers in the 60s and just didnt want to put up with the old fashioned crap and social morality we were being force fed.

You also hold fallacious views about drug use in the 60's. It simply wasnt as widespread as people made out. The consequences of being caught with drugs were much more serious then. In Western Australia, you could and would get 4 years in prison for posession of one spliff.
The US was also in a high state of paranoia. Yes you could get drugs in the right places, but outside of those places, drug use just didnt happen. I and my friends got our Hotel room searched in Minneapolis, yet despite having half an ounce of cannabis in a bag they missed it, they didnt even know what they were looking for.
In the UK, mainstream drug use was pretty much limited to mild stimulants and the odd smoke untill the very lat 60's and the 70's. We didnt go out to get out of our brains, just to ease reality a little. LSD use was massively hyped and the truth was it wasnt a well used drug.


As I stated in the beginning. If you werent there you simply wouldnt understand and no explanation really works.
QED

Take it as you want it. I dont really give a fuck. A question was asked and I, as someone that was there, tried to explain.
YOU werent there.
So you sit there and blame everyone but yourself for you and your generations failure, instead of getting off your arses to change things.
We changed things. Fact. Maybe you dont like those changes, but the fact that there was an enormous change is undeniable.
Oh yes. Vietnam had nothing to do with it. For most of the world outside of the US,Vietnam was totally inconsequential. Just the good old US Sabre rattling again.

[Chorlton]

Oh, and lest I forget, your generation also provided nice public distractions while the powers that be perpetrated some of the worst crimes against humanity in history.

The few real heroes of your generation are dead and have been for a long time. Give or take one or two that have long been forgotten. The last one (cultural anyway) having put a bullet in is own head a few years back.


Change doesn't matter as long as you are only changing the insignificant.
At least we tried. We got off our arses and did something.
Which is more than can be said of the drug addicted worthless fuckwits that now sit around moaning

[JiveTurkey]

Oh, and lest I forget, your generation also provided nice public distractions while the powers that be perpetrated some of the worst crimes against humanity in history.

The few real heroes of your generation are dead and have been for a long time. Give or take one or two that have long been forgotten. The last one (cultural anyway) having put a bullet in is own head a few years back.


Change doesn't matter as long as you are only changing the insignificant.
At least we tried. We got off our arses and did something.
Which is more than can be said of the drug addicted worthless fuckwits that now sit around moaning


Every generation tries their hand at their own cause. 30 years from now fuckwits from my generation will be spreading the gospel of how they helped get equal rights for gays and saved them from the oppression that plagued them for oh so long. They will also be taking credit for lower carbon emissions and and other pointless "feats of greatness".


As I said, natural social progression.

Blacks had been fighting for civil rights since they had been freed. It was just a matter of time before they had the numbers (and the means of massive publicity, even for those that could not personally be in attendance) to achieve what their predecessors had not. If anything, your generation ONLY mattered as future voters. Sure, a few social progressions were made by those in power to keep your generation happy and voting. Your generation was as insignificant and as full of failure as all generations before or since. You were given just enough to keep you under control and make you think you made a difference. However, the all powerful were just as all powerful then and it was THEIR hand that ALLOWED the changes you claim your generation brought about.



As far as my generation goes, I agree 100%. My generation is a useless herd of cattle who are capable of individual thought in spurts of seconds at best.

Those of us who DO want to change things are crippled by the very people who stand to lose just as much as the rest of us due to our apathy.

However, it was YOUR generation who birthed, raised and taught MY generation. We are what you made us and have become only what you have allowed us to become.


we are the proof of your failure.


Look around at what your change accomplished.


"Tiger father begets tiger son."

[mojo]

what we all seem to forget is that change has taken place from generation to generation since time immemorial, sometimes it's one step backwards, sometimes one step forwards.
sure the 60's gave us great "images" and "personalities" to hang our hats on, but no more so than any other decade, or century or millenium imho.
in a thousand years the same questions will be asked of the 2960's.
change and evolution of the species happens with or without cultural or societal impetus. it's inevitable and occurs without our consent.
mother nature owns our sorry asses.

[mojo]

:lol:


awesome avvy biatch.

[JiveTurkey]

:lol:


awesome avvy biatch.


Said by the epitome of awesomeness.


Mojo Appreciation Society for life bitches!

[JiveTurkey]

Also, if anyone could tell me what was great about Michael King Jr. or Malcolm Little (other than their gift of gab), please let me know.

As far as Kennedy goes, he made a change in the right direction after a lifetime of self indulgence and living on the high horse. However, when he began to delve into issues that really mattered, he was handled very efficiently.

Icons and heroes are two different things in my book.

[Chorlton]

When the 60's started there was little change and there had been little change since pre-victorian times. and the Industrial revolution.
It was all the same, Same clothes, same hair, same shit music. People had no transport and it was a pretty puritanical world.
Work your arses off for assholes then say thank you and die.
Then our generation decided we didnt want that, we didnt want constant harping on a about a war we knew nothing about nor cared about either. We wanted our music, our clothes, our freedom of expression and transport. We took the ridicule of our different clothes and hair. We took the ridicule of our different music. I even had to hide my guitar around a friends house because my father wouldnt have an electric guitar in the house.
Fuck, how many times was I beaten up at school for having long hair and different clothes. Then there were enough of for it not to matter anymore, then everyone under 25 joined in.
My generation changed the way people thought about things.
Just a point but in Europe, no one cared a fuck about or even knew much about Vietnam untill the end of the 60's. It was a far off war fought by far off people in a far off country, no one here gave a fuck. By the time it meant something to the world, the work of change was over. People had changed. The thought processes had changed.
Yes black people had been fighting for their rights for years but it took the 60's for it to be brought to world attention. Nuclear weapons had been around for years but it took us people in the 60's to at least protest and stand up and say it was wrong. We had the balls to stand up and speak out and protest at things our fathers just couldnt do.

Its like I said. If you werent there you just dont know. It cant be explained in mere words. You have to listen to the words, then listen to the words of songs.
It was a total 'being' sort of thing. I went to the US on my first trip in the 60's and found people like me, thinking the same, speaking the same things and singing the same songs.
You can bitch and moan, but we did make a difference, we changed things no matter what you think.
You werent there and many of the things we did then, now just dissapear as being the accepted way, the norm.
Your 'Norm' is what we helped make .
If you dont like it then stop moaning and fucking well do something, if you arent too doped up to get up on your 2 feet.

Its also worth mentioning that your point of view is probably limited to your limited view of the world. A US Centric point of view. Mine is based on a much larger view of the world

[Cogburn]

Also, if anyone could tell me what was great about Michael King Jr. or Malcolm Little (other than their gift of gab), please let me know.

As far as Kennedy goes, he made a change in the right direction after a lifetime of self indulgence and living on the high horse. However, when he began to delve into issues that really mattered, he was handled very efficiently.

Icons and heroes are two different things in my book.
MLK was one of the few in U.S. history to lead a non-violent movement that resulted in national political change at the federal level.

Malcom X went from a life of abject racism to a philosophy of complete acceptance.

Your ideas of icons and your heroes are odd.

@lala: There are Suffragettes in the afterlife that are currently trying to figure a way to come to this world to haunt you.

@Chorlton: What you are ignoring is that all that the Boomers "accomplished" in the 60s was destroyed by them in the decades that came after.

Free love! Until AIDS...
Smoke pot! But keep it illegal once you're in power...
Respect your fellow man! Until you're scared shitless when the WTC is attacked...
Peace and freedom! Geroge W. Bush was elected for two terms...
Speak your mind! But not in public and not too loudly if you don't agree with the prevailing zeitgeist...

By your own argument the generation of the Summer of Love had all the right ideas but absolutely none of the ability to make it manifest when they had attained power. There was no institutional change and ideals once held as fundamental guiding principals were abandoned for Audi's and microwaves.

I correct my position... the 60s accomplished something... it manage to provide an example of to later generations of the meaning of the terms "hypocrisy" and "sell-out".

What's worse: waiting for your moment and appear to do nothing, or manufacturing your moment only to piss away all you value once you attain it?

Tends to bring to mind a quote by Twain...

[Chorlton]

By your own argument the generation of the Summer of Love had all the right ideas but absolutely none of the ability to make it manifest when they had attained power.
And theres the main point. None of us wanted to 'take power' Dont blame us for the cockups, blame that onto the shaven headed suit wearing arseholes who never changed.
We just wanted our Music, clothes, and way of life to be left alone. Once we got that we just told the world to fuck off.


There was no institutional change
Maybe not in the US but the US aint the world. Just one little insignificant piece of it


and ideals once held as fundamental guiding principals were abandoned for Audi's and microwaves.
Yep because like all animals we want to settle down and have kids. And thats difficult without an Audi, washing machine and microwave.


I correct my position... the 60s accomplished something... it manage to provide an example of to later generations of the meaning of the terms "hypocrisy" and "sell-out".
Total bollocks. Youve been listening to too much Timothy Leary. All the majority of us wanted was to be left alone to enjoy our music, clothes lifestyle and a little pot now and again. We didnt want to run the world, we just wanted it run properly.


What's worse: waiting for your moment and appear to do nothing, or manufacturing your moment only to piss away all you value once you attain it?
What? like everyone since the 60's has done?
BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Tends to bring to mind a quote by Twain...
Fuck Twain, he was a prick too.

[JiveTurkey]

Your 'Norm' is what we helped make .



That's exactly the point I'm making. Think about the "norm" now. You know, the one you have belittled with me several times now.

That's all you helped make.


Everything changes in time. There are periods of stagnation but change is inevitable.


The changes you generation helped bring about are insignificant. The changes that DID matter were inevitable.

Civil rights for minorities was NATURAL SOCIAL PROGRESSION following women's rights and suffrage.

And hell, what good has that (Civil Rights) REALLY done?


As I said earlier, we still naturally segregate as a whole. We still have our own cultures and our own beliefs and we still compete over which particular race is superior. The only difference now is that we eat under the same roof (though we still segregate ourselves) and it is less SOCIALLY acceptable to belittle and oppress minorities. (Though the belittling and oppression of the "majority" has become FAR MORE socially acceptable.)

However, EVERY home still has racists and bigots living in it. People are still equally oppressed, even if in different ways.


I have yet to see you point out ANYTHING you generation contributed solely.

Were it not for your generation, how would today's world be different now?

Do you honestly believe that there would still be "whites only" bathrooms and water fountains without you?

Also, please feel free to try any REAL change now with the bunch of sorry fucks YOUR generation squeezed out. Not to mention the legal stranglehold your noble generation allowed to be put into place while you were at a sit-in.


Do we now live in the utopia of peace and love your generation was so devoted to?

Is discrimination less of a problem now than in the 50s? (I don't mean discrimination against blacks; Discrimination as a whole....)

Is the average human being better off now than they were in 1950? If so, how? If you believe things are better on average now than in 1950, would you also consider the average human life better in 1950 than in 1910?

If dvd players, personal computers, the internet, cell phones, gaming consoles and other such "modern technology" were as readily available in 1957 as they are today, would your generation still have followed the same path as they did without said technology?

What about society is worse to you now than in the 60s? If your generation was responsible for the good changes, were you not also equally responsible for the bad ones?



I'm willing to give you that your generation "tried". Many people tried very hard in the 60s. As did they in the 70s (LIBERATION!!!!!), 80s (Buy American! "Tear this wall down!", War on Drugs, Literacy, etc etc etc), 90s (End Homelessness!, Save the Dolphins!, Close Down Those Sweatshops!, etc etc etc), and our current decade. (Global Warming!!!, War on Terror, Gay Rights, etc etc etc).


Trying is great but it still ain't succeeding.



Personally, I try to change lives and not the world.

[Chorlton]

I'm wasting my time I can see that.

Bye bye all

It was fun while it lasted

[boycotteverything]

By your own argument the generation of the Summer of Love had all the right ideas but absolutely none of the ability to make it manifest when they had attained power.I think what you fail to realize is that even though the 'counterculture' was noisy and colorful and interesting and creative and seemingly everywhere at once, it actually consisted of a very few. To say that, "What you are ignoring is that all that the Boomers "accomplished" in the 60s was destroyed by them in the decades that came after," betrays a disturbing ignorance of history. You're confusing the 'boomers' with their most obvious manifestation. The counter culture never 'came to power' and thus 'destroyed none of its accomplishments.' The truth is that that very counter culture still exists and still exerts a positive influence on world affairs but is by no means a controlling element. The anti-60's paradigm displayed here is a matter of spoiled 30 something children hating their own parents.

[boycotteverything]

I'm wasting my time I can see that.

Bye bye all

It was fun while it lastedI'll second that emotion. We're arguing with ignoramuses.

[JiveTurkey]

MLK was one of the few in U.S. history to lead a non-violent movement that resulted in national political change at the federal level.

The movement as a whole was far from non violent (from both sides). Many factors were involved in the federal changes that amounted to anything. There are far better examples of greatness amongst civil rights "pioneers". Practicing what one preaches is a requirement for greatness in my book. King did not.

Malcom X went from a life of abject racism to a philosophy of complete acceptance.

Went from a life of abject racism TO a life of abject reverse racism. Many of his views were only changed AFTER his "own people" abandoned him because of minor squabbles and it was likely those same people he fought for who set into motion his death at the hands of his "people". Hardly much great about him.

Your ideas of icons and your heroes are odd.

An icon is the face and name that gets remembered. A hero is the unknown in the background that sacrificed everything for, and ONLY for, what he/she believed to be just.

[JiveTurkey]

I'm wasting my time I can see that.

Bye bye all

It was fun while it lasted


:roll:

[JiveTurkey]

I'm wasting my time I can see that.

Bye bye all

It was fun while it lastedI'll second that emotion. We're arguing with ignoramuses.

Then prove your point and let it be done. Why argue?

I have yet to see mention of anything that was "actually accomplished" (other than some music and good books) by the 60s generation. Civil rights was inevitable and because it happened during the 60s does NOT mean your generation was the reason for it. It was a LONG process that still hasn't, and will NEVER find an end. Your generation taking credit for the civil rights movement totally negates the couple hundred years of struggle and HUGE steps that lead up to it. Unless, of course, we went from slaves to civil rights in a decade and a half and I was totally misinformed.

[Cogburn]

The anti-60's paradigm displayed here is a matter of spoiled 30 something children hating their own parents.
It seems we've hit a nerve or John Lear is typing for you.

So either the counter culture changed the world, or it was a small portion of the population and therefore couldn't be expected to change the world... which is it?

Your ability to argue both sides of an issue in the same thought is astounding.

Would that be my ignorance of history or is it your refusal to accept that all those that supported the vocal minority evaporated as quickly as the drugs ran out?

I didn't realize that "peace", "love", and living as you believe are antithetical with being a parent and a member of society... unless, of course, it isn't what you really believe and were just trying to get fucked up and nail as many bitches as possible with some new guru-style game.

More bullshit in an attempt to justify the abject failure of a generation.


When the 60's started there was little change and there had been little change since pre-victorian times. and the Industrial revolution.
It was all the same, Same clothes, same hair, same shit music. People had no transport and it was a pretty puritanical world.
This is so utterly fucking retarded I'm still in shock that it came from your keyboard.

I'm sure that this woman might spit in your face were you to say that to her.
http://www.geh.org/ar/chus/altest/m197501122134.jpg

LOOK AT THIS RAMPANT INDIVIDUALITY!!!!!!
http://www.woodstock69.com/graphics/hippies2.jpg

By all means, take your broken toys and go home. Two grumpy curmudgeons attempting to justify the failures of their generation with myopia and insults.

Make sure before you start tossing the word "ignorant" around that you aren't exemplifying it yourself.

The 60's were as bullshit as grunge. Get the fuck over yourselves.

[boycotteverything]

Message subject: I'm gone
From: Chorlton
Sent: Fri May 15, 2009 6:32 am
To: boycotteverything
Message
I'm gone
Ive had enough.
I had a life before Forums and I'll have one after, but I'll not sit around and listen to shite spouted by a fucking turkey and Mojo as well as Lear Dumbman and wraith.
There's fewer and fewer people here I can talk with and it just aint worth the shit any more
Yeah let them scream about toys and prams. I don't give a fuck.
Email me if you want, don't PM me though cos I wont be logging in any more.

_________________
AMKON.... DOES Contain Nuts.

I'm reminded of Springer's old tag- never more apt: "Never argue with an idiot because he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience."

That's that. See ya kids. Enjoy

[Ducky]

I was born in the 60's (1966), so I can't really give a first hand experience in that respect, but looked at the whole paradigm from a young pups eyes, and hearing/reading about it afterwards like anyone else.

The way I see it, EACH generation is responsible for it's own actions, and even though we have to contend with the previous generation state of affairs (the 'aftermath, if you will), it's ultimately up to each and every one of us to make our own decisions.

We can look back and see changes ALL throughout history. Only the memorable and life-changing ones get written into books.

The 60's started one of many revolutions and passed the torch on to the next generations. That was basically it. The next in turn, could either run with the ball, or drop it and blame the ones who came before.

From my perspective, I see a personal line drawn from my recorded ancestry down to where I am right now. The in between is just stepping stones.

What did the folks in the 60's accomplish? I don't have all the right answers to this one. We could get a think tank going in here, and combine everyone's legitimate responses, and I suppose we'd be on the right track, but we'd be no where near a definate answer.

To me, the 60's seem like a longgggggg time ago. The kids in that era were the 'stone thrown into the lake', and we today, feel the ripple affect.

You have to remember, not everyone who espoused 'radical thinking' was a hippie. Counter culture came in many forms.

[Cogburn]

Message subject: I'm gone
From: Chorlton
Sent: Fri May 15, 2009 6:32 am
To: boycotteverything
Message
I'm gone
Ive had enough.
I had a life before Forums and I'll have one after, but I'll not sit around and listen to shite spouted by a fucking turkey and Mojo as well as Lear Dumbman and wraith.
There's fewer and fewer people here I can talk with and it just aint worth the shit any more
Yeah let them scream about toys and prams. I don't give a fuck.
Email me if you want, don't PM me though cos I wont be logging in any more.

_________________
AMKON.... DOES Contain Nuts.

I'm reminded of Springer's old tag- never more apt: "Never argue with an idiot because he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience."

That's that. See ya kids. Enjoy

http://lineout.thestranger.com/files/2007/11/crybaby.jpg

[JiveTurkey]

Message subject: I'm gone
From: Chorlton
Sent: Fri May 15, 2009 6:32 am
To: boycotteverything
Message
I'm gone
Ive had enough.
I had a life before Forums and I'll have one after, but I'll not sit around and listen to shite spouted by a fucking turkey and Mojo as well as Lear Dumbman and wraith.
There's fewer and fewer people here I can talk with and it just aint worth the shit any more
Yeah let them scream about toys and prams. I don't give a fuck.
Email me if you want, don't PM me though cos I wont be logging in any more.

_________________
AMKON.... DOES Contain Nuts.

I'm reminded of Springer's old tag- never more apt: "Never argue with an idiot because he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience."

That's that. See ya kids. Enjoy


See ya amigo. Enjoy your next step.

Why are you posting PMs?

Oh well, I enjoyed the discussion. It was a nice change. Sorry you guys didn't share in the enjoyment.

[JiveTurkey]

And why the hell resort to personal insults? This is several times now.

[mojo]

haha....it's my footy and im not playing anymore.

is that what the 60's accomplished. lol.

ohh and everyone that doesnt agree with me is ignorant, ya know. thats the anti-thesis of 60's sub culture, at least from what my parents passed on to me.
change, both cultural and societal is inevitable, we have no choice.
some era's stand out above others because they are the zenith of a cultural change, their is a nadir of change that preludes reaching the zenith.
that is a given, change does not occur miracurously at a single moment in time, it is a natural progression.

[mojo]

Message subject: I'm gone
From: Chorlton
Sent: Fri May 15, 2009 6:32 am
To: boycotteverything
Message
I'm gone
Ive had enough.
I had a life before Forums and I'll have one after, but I'll not sit around and listen to shite spouted by a fucking turkey and Mojo as well as Lear Dumbman and wraith.
There's fewer and fewer people here I can talk with and it just aint worth the shit any more
Yeah let them scream about toys and prams. I don't give a fuck.
Email me if you want, don't PM me though cos I wont be logging in any more.

_________________
AMKON.... DOES Contain Nuts.

I'm reminded of Springer's old tag- never more apt: "Never argue with an idiot because he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience."

That's that. See ya kids. Enjoy


haha, i'll be sorry to see chorlton go, but hey if a debate about cultural shifts upsets you that much, then take care mate.

you on the other hand threaten to leave regularly because you dont get your own way, i can only hope that you decide to let actions speak louder than words one day.

[Cogburn]

Mojo: the voice of reason.

The world is ending. :)

[mojo]

And why the hell resort to personal insults? This is several times now.

because he's downtrodden and its all our fault.

[apeci]

The civil rights movement was a failure from the perspective of civil rights. From one of authoritarian progressivism, it was a total success.

[mojo]

Mojo: the voice of reason.

The world is ending. :)

if i post over 2250 times im statistically inclined to make sense once.

[Oblivion]

they set out to do fuck all work, while fucking each other for free lovin', and their main goal was to do heaps of drugs and smoke pounds of nice weed.
they had long hair because they couldnt afford a haircut after blowing every $ on weed, and even if they did have $ they were too wasted to do anything about it anyway. :D

i'd say they accomplished all of those goals, and quite successfully i might ad ! :smokin:

[mojo]

they had long hair

and there in lies the problem....i have none.

[skunk]

An interesting tid bit. Chorlton and BE say some of us have too thin of a skin, yet they run off at the first sign of trouble. Come on now gramps, I thought you were tougher than that. If the 60s had that much of an impact on you personally, (and society) then you should have no problem explaining your reasoning without your panties bunching up.

[Bellsonrich]

Amazing music,

ohh yeah, Blue Cheer, MC5 and Ironbutterfly......sweet.

Blue Cheer was so-so, MC5 was john sinclair's wet dream come to life and Iron Butterfly was a fucking joke.

[Ima Nasshole]

Chorlton,

The byproduct of people "coming of age' in the 60's means today they are now at an age of either entering or exiting Menopause, which you have demonstrated (with your departure) is the point in life in which old men obviously grow a vagina.

This is Amkon bitch, as you point out it contains nuts, or bollocks, prove you fucking own a pair and get the fuck back in here you fucking pussy!

[lala]

Just want to point out cog "suffragettes" was a term coined in the 1890 for the womens movement thats when women were fighting to be treated equally by men, as men socially and psychically dominate women, it was used by americia's news paper as derogatory label. . . then in the 60,s they took on dealing with the inequality of laws, as well as cultural inequalities.
I was born in the sixtys my mum grew up in them and as far as I'm concerned thats when women start to be treated slightly human when we finally started having some rights. . . . god when my mum came to nz she wasn't even allowed to drink in a bar. . . to say they be haunting. . . I think not :) . . . . maybe they'll be after you man!. . . . lol

[guinnessford]

Just want to point out cog "suffragettes" was a term coined in the 1890 for the womens movement thats when women were fighting to be treated equally by men, as men socially and psychically dominate women, it was used by americia's news paper as derogatory label. . . then in the 60,s they took on dealing with the inequality of laws, as well as cultural inequalities.
I was born in the sixtys my mum grew up in them and as far as I'm concerned thats when women start to be treated slightly human when we finally started having some rights. . . . god when my mum came to nz she wasn't even allowed to drink in a bar. . . to say they be haunting. . . I think not :) . . . . maybe they'll be after you man!. . . . lol


Sweet, Ive learned something today.

Thanks, Lala!

And what was Bowie singing about, and where is the city??

[Ducky]

And what was Bowie singing about, and where is the city??

Hey man...

There's a LOT I remember of Bowie, but what comes to mind in this event is:

a]D67kmFzSh_oa]

[Cogburn]

Just want to point out cog "suffragettes" was a term coined in the 1890 for the womens movement thats when women were fighting to be treated equally by men, as men socially and psychically dominate women, it was used by americia's news paper as derogatory label. . . then in the 60,s they took on dealing with the inequality of laws, as well as cultural inequalities.
I was born in the sixtys my mum grew up in them and as far as I'm concerned thats when women start to be treated slightly human when we finally started having some rights. . . . god when my mum came to nz she wasn't even allowed to drink in a bar. . . to say they be haunting. . . I think not :) . . . . maybe they'll be after you man!. . . . lol


Sweet, Ive learned something today.

Thanks, Lala!

And what was Bowie singing about, and where is the city??Seriously... I stand corrected. Smite.

I was almost worried that it was going to dilute my point. :)

[guinnessford]

c]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7tBAY0LOPBw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7tBAY0LOPBw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>c]

[lala]

Cog wrote ;

I was almost worried that it was going to dilute my point. :)

Thats ok cog I thought your point was weak enough, and needed no further dilution :)

[lala]

And what was Bowie singing about, and where is the city??

Suffragette city was a women, he was bi sexual and he saying he meet a chick that,s he must of really liked . . . thats my take anyway . . . one of the suffragette got to him. . . a love song lol. . . :) . . . gay boy get out, I got to get straight!!!!


Hey man, ah leave me alone you know
Hey man, well Henry, get off the phone, I gotta
Hey man, I gotta straighten my face
This mellow thighed chick just put my spine out of place

[Cogburn]

Cog wrote ;

I was almost worried that it was going to dilute my point. :)

Thats ok cog I thought your point was weak enough, and needed no further dilution :)
Ouch... easy now.

It didn't have to be anything other than correct.

Albeit barely... but then that leaves room for further discussion. :)

[lala]

I couldn't help it. . . the cheek just wants to come out. . . "all in jest" :)

[Foxtrot Oscar]

It derives from the word "suffrage", meaning the right to vote.

They were British and they wanted to vote. They walked out in front of horses and got squished. Well 1 of them did.

Interestingly Lala, NZ was the first self governing place to allow women to vote. (Are they fucking insane over there or what?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette

Nothing to do with Yanks or the 60's or Chortons olympic record breaking toy throwing display.

Fox

[guinnessford]

And what was Bowie singing about, and where is the city??

Suffragette city was a women, he was bi sexual and he saying he meet a chick that,s he must of really liked . . . thats my take anyway . . . one of the suffragette got to him. . . a love song lol. . . :) . . . gay boy get out, I got to get straight!!!!


Hey man, ah leave me alone you know
Hey man, well Henry, get off the phone, I gotta
Hey man, I gotta straighten my face
This mellow thighed chick just put my spine out of place


Cool, I always had a hard time trying to understand the song.

Bowie is one of my favorites from that time, Ziggy and all.

[skunk]

Without the 60s, we'd never know how much fun the number 69 is.

[lala]

It derives from the word "suffrage", meaning the right to vote.

They were British and they wanted to vote. They walked out in front of horses and got squished. Well 1 of them did.

Interestingly Lala, NZ was the first self governing place to allow women to vote. (Are they fucking insane over there or what?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette

Nothing to do with Yanks or the 60's or Chortons olympic record breaking toy throwing display.

Fox

Cheers Fox. . . .and the insane thing, pretty close to the truth. . . . which is rare on a CT site. . . :)

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Message subject: I'm gone
From: Chorlton
Sent: Fri May 15, 2009 6:32 am
To: boycotteverything
Message
I'm gone
Ive had enough.
I had a life before Forums and I'll have one after, but I'll not sit around and listen to shite spouted by a fucking turkey and Mojo as well as Lear Dumbman and wraith.
There's fewer and fewer people here I can talk with and it just aint worth the shit any more
Yeah let them scream about toys and prams. I don't give a fuck.
Email me if you want, don't PM me though cos I wont be logging in any more.

_________________
AMKON.... DOES Contain Nuts.

I'm reminded of Springer's old tag- never more apt: "Never argue with an idiot because he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience."

That's that. See ya kids. Enjoy


Ohh boo fucking hoo.
Thought he could go around assaulting and insulting anyone who did not agree with him and couldn't take it when someone was able to fire back.
Pathetic.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

My take on the 60s as far as I can see has been this.
A generation of children grasping for any permissive ideology they could find and using those concepts of which they didn't really understand to do what they wanted.
Free love: "Hey, now I can talk that girl/guy I really want to fuck into giving me some no strings attached and it would be socially acceptable."
Peace: "Hey, I don't want to go to war. Fighting and dying's not for me man. Not to mention combat really all around sucks. So I am going to want peace!"
And all the various other hollow BS sounds good slogans and bullshit they could throw in to continue doing basically whatever the fuck they want.
Which they completely abandoned as time went by.
They didn't start anything new, just brought some old shit up and used it to do what they wanted, without any real conviction to the concepts they used and cast aside later.

I'm sorry my question and other's answers made Chorlton's pussy ache to the point he felt he had to leave.
But given the amount of bullshit he spends on attack mode against others I could give two shits.

[Cogburn]

Even if our perceptions of the time are all fucked up.... doesn't that very fact prove the point?

Not even the "real" or "true" message made it out alive and the Boomers have had the reigns of power, media and intelligensia for at least the past 25 years.

Part of me can't help but wonder if the majority didn't realize that they had turned into The Man only after it was far too late and just romanticized the rest.

[mojo]

Part of me can't help but wonder if the majority didn't realize that they had turned into The Man only after it was far too late and just romanticized the rest.

i think thats pretty close to the truth unfortunately.

hell i look at the "me me me" kids now and i want to kick their teeth in.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Even if our perceptions of the time are all fucked up.... doesn't that very fact prove the point?

Not even the "real" or "true" message made it out alive and the Boomers have had the reigns of power, media and intelligensia for at least the past 25 years.

Part of me can't help but wonder if the majority didn't realize that they had turned into The Man only after it was far too late and just romanticized the rest.

I really don't think they cared.
All of it, was an excuse and lip service to concepts they were never really overly serious about.
I say that simply because look how they acted after that time they wish so badly to be percieved as some sort of golden age.
That and spitting on someone coming out a situation like Vietnam when that person didn't ask to get sent there is reprehensible to say the least.

[Ducky]

What about what I said Wraith?

[Cogburn]

My dad got spit on by folks like my mom. My in-laws are the same story. All 4 of them have had moments, which I've discussed with them, where they went "when did we fuck this up?"

I'll give you 50/50 at most... Half don't care and never really did... half wonder where it all disappeared to.

The fact that they the 60s have been and are being rewritten as a golden age is something that I think we agree on completely.

When hippie fashion came back big for a moment during the early 90s you could tell that mothers handed over their relic bell bottomed jeans to their daughters with a little tear of nostalgia in their eye.

[Ducky]

I'll reiterate once again:

\In here:

HERE (http://www.amkon.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&p=95597#p95597)

[lala]

You's crack me up, if there wasn't any 60's you wouldn't be here. . . . the change from the 50's to the 60's was huge, to say it would of happened anyway is a cop out as otherwise it would be know as the70's 80's or what ever. . . . I'm not saying they were the best years or anything, couldn't give a shit really. . . . . But you take out the knowlegde learn then, and the changes that happened it wouldn't be the same world today. . . . weather that is good or bad we'll never know. . . . . :)


Kiwi giving me shit about my BAD spelling. . . . :cry:

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

I'll reiterate once again:

Here:

My Stance (Yay4YMyL8U0)

Sorry Ducky.
You mean the post you said earlier?
I did answer you.

[KIWI]

What about what I said Wraith?

IM waiting patiently on your Ingo Swan post miss Dukk, 8)

[hp]

... but I'll not sit around and listen to shite spouted by a fucking turkey and Mojo as well as Lear Dumbman and wraith.
There's fewer and fewer people here I can talk with and it just aint worth the shit any more

For some odd reason that whole statement seems backwards. Seems the speaker and audience should be switched.

Grumpy old men, is that the new place?

[Cogburn]

Fair enough... but I can say that would have happened, albeit probably completely differently.

History is always a perfect storm of the culmination of the people, events and the last sacred cow that was slaughtered.

Sometimes that process is guided by the participants, sometimes the process itself is the guide.

You don't have to attribute "good" or "bad" to discuss the impact that it has on today.

I think the fact that the experiment of the 60s was a failure has a greater impact than any of the other cultural icons it left behind.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Pah, he's bitching because he can't have it his way.

Oh, and exactly Cog.
:lol:

[Ducky]

What about what I said Wraith?

IM waiting patiently on your Ingo Swan post miss Dukk, 8)

What?

You want me to Remote view you guys now? AGAIN?

Seems like I just did that already. Check out the dream section kiwi!

EDIT TO ADD:

I already gave my version of the south eastern portion of Austrailia. and that sonofabitch got wiped.

I was travelling along the coast when I talked about a metal thingy. Probably regarding antartica...dunno ..all I know is that we can breathe underwater, and we NEED this metalcon....it's another word I know....it's a convergence of two words.

[mojo]

haha...i dont know why i got a mention, i thought my posts were reasoned responses.

perspective though hey, the 60's passed us by in the outback of the northern territory.
its as if it didnt happen for me or my folks.

[KIWI]

What about what I said Wraith?

IM waiting patiently on your Ingo Swan post miss Dukk, 8)

What?

You want me to Remote view you guys now? AGAIN?

Seems like I just did that already. Check out the dream section kiwi!

EDIT TO ADD:

I already gave my version of the south eastern portion of Austrailia. and that sonofabitch got wiped.



I was travelling along the coast when I talked about a metal thingy. Probably regarding antartica...dunno ..all I know is that we can breathe underwater, and we NEED this metalcon....it's another word I know....it's a convergence of two words.

Im from New Zealand dear Ducky,.....I remote viewed your place, must have been the bedroom, been waiting for a check from you regards the accuracy of my vision :twisted:

[KIWI]

I know this thread is on the "counter -culture" of the 60's........but

The 60's?......their relevance to a CT site? is that what we need to look at ?........I think so

1960........February 11........News-papers in Britain reported a US Defence Dept. announcement that an unidentified object orbiting earth had been discovered by a Navy- operated space surveillance unit and was under constant observation. Flying Saucer Review covered this in several issues.The object was said to be about 15 tons,orbiting the poles, and thus far had preserved total radio silence.The Pentagon said the object.."may have been of Soviet origin", a statement that brought a skeptical response from Soviet astronomers, who mantained that all Soviet sattellites were fired into orbit at 65 degrees to the equator, well clear of the poles. In late August the satellite was seen for several days and photographed by Grumman Aircraft corp.

The mystery object also figured in a CIA reportdated March 17, 1960, which described a March 6 sighting and photograph of two UFO's over Nortalje, Sweden.A man had gone out that morning to..." photograph the unidentified satellite, 1960 Alpha".Just before the satellite became visible, he saw two objects moving slowly...."not entirely unlike that of the satellites he had seen before.Suddenly, however, the direction of movement changed, and the objects turned such that they were going back in the same direction they came from.


1960.........February 27......Roscoe Hillenkoetter media release


It is time for the truth to be brought out in open congressional hearings, behind the scenes, high ranking Air-Force officers are soberly concerned about UFO's.But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense......to hide the facts, the Air Force has silenced its personnel with the issuance of new regulations

Thye Air-Force admitted the new regulation but said it was part of a seven page document which had been issued to update similar past orders, and that it made no "substantive" change in policy.


1960...........Project Ozma.....first attempt at ET communication

April 8 4am ----Project Ozma aims the radio telescope at Green Bank WV toward Tau Ceti,.....in Drakes words the "signal" recieved "knocked the needles off the dials for 5 mins"....same signal re-aquired two weeks later and decided must be of terrestrial origin

The Naval Research Lab later revealed they had been listening to the signal for six months, they were unable to determine the source.The best guess is the NSA had a powerful transmitter, as part of its large facillity at Green-Bank. Drake said later...."...we never really knew what we made contact with that first day"

Otto Struve reversed his original stance on the importance of project Ozma...."come back in 100 years" he told reporters,the project was officially wound up in 1961, actually , it was not,as Struve implied, it simply moved to Arecibo , Puerto Rico

1960.......May 1------CIA pilot Francis Gary Powers shot down over the Soviet Union, The cover story was useless as Powers had failed to activate a remote device to destroy the U2.....

Nothing of any note came from the 1960's?????? this is a CT site???????..............stay tuned, :shock:

[KIWI]

1960----May

The CIA sponsered the covert arrival of the first Cubans in Guatemala and soon had built a secret airstrip

The US ambassador was aware of the situation but stayed clear as the operation was "Black"

Meanwhile, tha CIA were also deeply involved in the elections of the former Belgian Congo, newly independant.the Congo had the misfortune of being the site of some of the worlds richest mineral deposits, including high-grade plutonium.It was therefore a universal target of domination, a game won by the Americans

In June 1960............the CIA began providing arms to the anti-Trujillo underground in the Dominican Republic

In July 1960.............the CIA made a payment to arrange for an " accident" to Raoul Castro, Fidel's brother

In July 1960.............According to Wilbert Smith, the "Canadian Research Group" handling UFO,s recovered " one mass of very strange metal" there was about 3000 pounds of it, said Smith, and the Canadians did "a tremendous amount of detective work on this metal"




In August 1960.........the CIA office of medical services poisoned cigars destined for Fidel, at the same time J Edgar Hoover recorded JFK's reckless womanizing at the Democratic convention, and may have fed the info to Lyndon Johnson to use for blackmail purposes against Kennedy, perhaps even to influence JFK's choice of running mate

In September 1960........The London Daily Telegraph september 3, reported on the mysterious object recently appearing over New York- 5 times since August 23. A tracking camera at the Grumman Aircraft plant on Long Island had apparently photographed the object, which was believed to be 3 times faster than the satellite Echo 1 and traveled from East-West, rather than the West-East path followed by artificial satellites.

[Cogburn]

I see what you did there. I like this game.

I'll take 1962-1963.

I'll wait for you to finish '60 and '61 before I post.

[KIWI]

I see what you did there. I like this game.

I'll take 1962-1963.

I'll wait for you to finish '60 and '61 before I post.

Cheers Cog,....... :smokin: , The actual "counter-culture" as per the definition of this thread achieved a huge ammount, most notably IMO by creating a major distraction from the agendas of the "arse-tards" running the planet, dive right in Cog, all the info posted is easily accessed from the toobz, I gotta dissapear for a bit and take care of more mundane duties, get some fire-wood sorted , bill's payed etc.....I look forward to seeing what you got, and will check in , in a few hours...

and personally I think the 60's were fukkin awesome, loved the music .......I dont think anyone has the right to dismiss any portion of our history as irrelevant to humankind as a whole............ 8)

[Cogburn]

Here's what I've dug up on 1962 that sounded interesting...

Janurary 1962 - Pope John XXIII excommunicates Fidel Castro.

Februrary - Mercury program: While aboard Friendship 7, John Glenn orbits the earth three times in 4 hours, 55 minutes, becoming the first American to orbit the earth. For the first time in 400 years Neptune and Pluto align.

March - The war between Algeria and France ends with the withdrawal of all French forces and the autonomy of Algeria.

April - NASA's Ranger 4 spacecraft crashes into the Moon.

May - A birthday salute to U.S. President John F. Kennedy takes place at Madison Square Garden, New York. The highlight is Marilyn Monroe's infamous rendition of Happy Birthday.

June - Frank Morris, John Anglin and Clarence Anglin become the only prisoners to apparently successfully escape from the prison on Alcatraz Island. No conclusive evidence has ever been found that they survived the escape attempt.

July - The "Small Boy" test shot Little Feller I becomes the last atmospheric test detonation at the Nevada Test Site.

August - Marylin Monroe dies. Ringo Starr joins the Beatles. East German border guards kill 18-year-old Peter Fechter as he attempts to cross the Berlin Wall into West Berlin becoming the first victim of the Cold War policies of a split Berlin.

September - President John F. Kennedy declares the USA will get a man on the moon, and bring him back, by the end of the decade.

October - Pope John Paul XXIII convenes "Vatican II". Cuban missile crisis begins.

November - Cuban missile crisis ends. Nixon loses bid for Governor of California and delivers the famous quote "Just think about how much you're going to be missing: You won't have Nixon to kick around any more, because, gentlemen, this is my last press conference."

December - The Mariner II space probe sent back information from the planet Venus, the first information ever received from another planet.
___________________________________
And for the record... the topic was pretty specific as were my responses. No one can claim that for 10 years nothing happened that didn't influence the future. "Accomplish" requires an intent and a goal... "Influence" is could be nothing more than a side-effect of existence.
:wink:

[JiveTurkey]

and personally I think the 60's were fukkin awesome, loved the music .......I dont think anyone has the right to dismiss any portion of our history as irrelevant to humankind as a whole............ 8)


I agree in regards to not dismissing any portion of history as irrelevant to humankind as a whole. The events of the 60s definitely had their place in history and things would probably be very different now without them. I just view the ACTUAL things accomplished during the 60s as more culturally "important" (for lack of a better word) than anything else.

The music changed, attitudes changed, etc etc etc.

However, as far as the betterment of mankind goes, the movements of the 60s were a total flop.

[pack3tg0st]

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2009/01/pill.jpg

There's 50% of the reason the counter-culture even existed...

[mojo]

i prefer mine with mdma.

[JiveTurkey]

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2009/01/pill.jpg

There's 50% of the reason the counter-culture even existed...


Preach it.

[KIWI]

J T wrote

However, as far as the betterment of mankind goes, the movements of the 60s were a total flop.



she-it,......as much as Id like to argue that point,.......I gotta concede the fukka is 99.99 percent right.....

am I required to explain the minute fractional percentage that escapes the total ?........ 8)

[boycotteverything]

http://www.hoaxmasters.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24 Answers will be provided.

[KIWI]

From p2


Oh, and lest I forget, your generation also provided nice public distractions while the powers that be perpetrated some of the worst crimes against humanity in history.

The few real heroes of your generation are dead and have been for a long time. Give or take one or two that have long been forgotten. The last one (cultural anyway) having put a bullet in is own head a few years back.


Change doesn't matter as long as you are only changing the insignificant.





Jason, I have just done what I should of done before posting, read the whole thread ha ha, in which case I wouldnt have repeated what had already been said,...now read IJO in place of my IMO



The actual "counter-culture" as per the definition of this thread achieved a huge ammount, most notably IJO by creating a major distraction from the agendas of the "arse-tards" running the planet,

and if the middle bit is a referance to Mr Thompson..........nice. Was expecting to have read an absolute dog-fight but there aint anything there that seems to merit the fluff-storm that ensued,....I looked around quite a bit before joining here, wanting to see what John Lear had to say, was blown away at the hysterical viciousness that he faced , the one who stood out most was Chorlton,....in spite of my initial dislike I have come to like the guy, I joined his site today and look forward to giving it to him as a social experiment to see what will happen, good to see there are a few giving his site support, and what struck me the most was ,(after seeing people blow into Amkon and meet old " niet" friends you almost always hear,...." I was so- and -so at the other site.) the members from here who , out of nothing more than good old fashioned decency, have chucked in their support, have all kept their amkon names, there is a true "Band of Brothers" thing around here. :smokin: :salut: :clown: :whip: :machinegun: :rifle: :beatdown: :banghead: :beathorse: :grey: :nuts: :smokers:

and Wraith,.......great thread

[boycotteverything]

When Norman Mailer ran for mayor
http://www.hoaxmasters.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=85


When Norman Mailer ran for mayor

Postby boycotteverything » Tue May 26, 2009 6:53 am
I'm posting here in full this brief history of Norman Mailer's rebellion against the rigid and dehumanizing system that had become New York in the 1960s. It's written with love and respect by his son, John Buffalo. The ideas that Mailer and Breslin put forth in 1969 are still fresh and imaginative- and informative of the creative means by which we can steal back our society. The article appears in the May 4th issue of The American Conservative- perhaps the most incisive and thoughtful political magazine in America. Unfortunately, TAC is undergoing financial strains at this time which threaten its very continuation. Please subscribe.

Dateline New York City, Summer of ’69

Copyright © 2009 The American Conservative

Norman Mailer and Jimmy Breslin’s campaign to liberate NYC

By John Buffalo Mailer


Gloria Steinem, Jack Newfield, and Noel Parmentel pitched the idea to him, guaranteeing its cross-partisan pedigree from the start. Murray Rothbard called it “the most refreshing libertarian political campaign in decades.” He believed that “smashing the urban government apparatus and fragmenting it into a myriad of constituent fragments” offered the only answer to the ills plaguing American cities and bestowed The Libertarian Forum’s first political endorsement.



On the last Sunday of every month—Sweet Sunday—for 24 hours nothing would move or operate in the city except for emergency vehicles. No planes, trains, automobiles, or anything requiring electric power was to run, giving the city and her inhabitants a break from the humming of machinery and choking of exhaust pipes. If you lived on the 75th floor of a building, you had best plan in advance. The idea, Breslin wrote, was for “everything [to be] brought to a halt so human beings can rest and talk to each other and the air can purify itself.” Would it have cleansed the city’s soul or restored some sense of small-town identity? At the very least it would have gotten people talking to their neighbors, an essential element of the devolutionary project.




"Can it be that the apparent desire of this city to destroy itself can be found in the newspapers themselves? God, they do not even honor their own. They seem to assume that used-up politicians, implicated politicians, and politicians with tongues waxed in old dead liberal wax are going to know more about running this city than two writers who have spent their last twenty years separately brooding, working, and writing about the problems of man and society, and the streets and people of this city."

—Norman Mailer and Jimmy Breslin
Open letter to the New York Times
June 15, 1969

Forty years ago, my father wagered that he and Jimmy Breslin, two non-professional politicians, were better suited to save New York City than any career pol on the scene. So with Mailer for mayor and Breslin for city council president, they squared off in the 1969 Democratic primary against four standard-issue liberals. (Pop quipped of one, “I can’t get a grasp on a mind this small.” His campaign manager, Joe Flaherty, called another “eternally starched” and dismissed a third as a “municipal Lazarus.”) Echoing the student slogan raised during the Columbia University crisis of the previous year, “No more bulls--t,” they ran to rescue a “spiritless” city turned into a “legislative pail of dismembered organs.”

Something vital had been lost along the way—a sense of place, of verve and nerve and wit. They were out to get it back, niceties of the political game be damned.

Their vision was as bold as their odds were long—20-to-1 by my father’s estimate. But if New Yorkers took the bet, the shock to the system would provide enough momentum to make New York City the 51st state. Freed from its “marriage of misery, incompatibility, and abominable old quarrels” with the remainder of New York state, the city would reap a windfall of money and liberty sufficient to save it.

Pop figured, “The startled legislators of Albany and Washington would be face to face with a mighty fact: the bitterest and most apathetic and disillusioned electorate in the United States had spoken in a thunderous affirmation—they wanted Statehood for themselves.” He foresaw the city, its independence secured, splintering into townships and neighborhoods, with their own school systems, police departments, housing programs, and governing philosophies. In some areas, church attendance might be obligatory, in others free love mandatory. “People in New York would begin to discover neighborhoods of the left, the right, and the spectrum of the center which reflected some of their own passions and desires and programs for local government,” he wrote. One way or another, the city would come apart.

Gloria Steinem, Jack Newfield, and Noel Parmentel pitched the idea to him, guaranteeing its cross-partisan pedigree from the start. Murray Rothbard called it “the most refreshing libertarian political campaign in decades.” He believed that “smashing the urban government apparatus and fragmenting it into a myriad of constituent fragments” offered the only answer to the ills plaguing American cities and bestowed The Libertarian Forum’s first political endorsement.

Partisans proved less enthusiastic, but then my father was no stranger to people thinking some of his ideas were crazy. He had long argued that plastic was poisonous and that television destroys the attention span. He considered abortion murder, but felt it should be legal until we evolve to the point of outlawing all war. What was more offensive, he wondered: the premature death of a 20-year-old soldier whom God had been cultivating for one purpose or another, or a life that He or She (he always used both when referring to God) had been nurturing for a mere three weeks?

His ideas enflamed, enriched, and deepened the public discourse for the second half of the 20th century and on into the Bush years. Because his point of view didn’t attach to any political extreme, he wielded the double-edged sword of enlightening his audiences while forcing them to contemplate matters uncomfortable to their rigid ideologies. He took great pride in pronouncing himself a Left-Conservative—Left because he believed that desperate times required radical solutions, conservative because he distrusted centralized government. The label baffled even the more eclectic personalities he encountered on the various circuits. But in his view, Left and Right do not necessarily need to exist in solitary states. Rather, they could dwell together in a radically alternative system to the one we know today—one in which governance belongs to local inhabitants bound by as little federal interference as possible. His claim to be running to the left and right of every man in the race was no gimmick.

Though largely mocked by the press—“the Mailer-Breslin ticket, running in fun…”—this wasn’t street theater. “They never took us seriously,” my father complained to New York magazine, “when in fact, we had more ideas than anyone else around.” Theodore White, author of the Making of the President books, agreed, calling it “one of the most serious campaigns run in the United States in the last five years. … his campaign was considered and thoughtful, the beginning of an attempt to apply ideas to a political situation.” And make no mistake: Mailer and Breslin were in it to win. True, their slogan was unprintable, their speeches incorrect, their organization unorthodox. Calling your supporters “spoiled pigs” may not be a great strategy. But for all the flamboyance of their campaign, the duo was deadly serious. Breslin wrote:

In Manhattan, the lights seem brighter and the theatre crowds swirl through the streets and the girls swing in and out of office buildings in packs and it is all splendor and nobody sees the body punches that are going to make the city sag to its knees one day very soon. The last thing that New York can afford at this time is a politician thinking in normal politicians’ terms. The city is beyond that. The City of New York either gets an imagination, or the city dies.

Their platform ran on that kind of creativity but didn’t neglect common sense. At the time, New York City taxpayers were giving the state and federal governments $14 billion, of which only $3 billion was returned to the city. Under the City-State, an additional $2 billion in revenue would come in to deal with local problems.

My father called for banning private cars in Manhattan, which would have reduced pollution by an estimated three-fifths. The number of cabs would increase, and passengers heading in the same direction could share cabs at a prorated fare. All city bus and subway transportation would be free, a monorail was to be built around the island, and publicly owned bicycles would be made available to all without cost.

On the last Sunday of every month—Sweet Sunday—for 24 hours nothing would move or operate in the city except for emergency vehicles. No planes, trains, automobiles, or anything requiring electric power was to run, giving the city and her inhabitants a break from the humming of machinery and choking of exhaust pipes. If you lived on the 75th floor of a building, you had best plan in advance. The idea, Breslin wrote, was for “everything [to be] brought to a halt so human beings can rest and talk to each other and the air can purify itself.” Would it have cleansed the city’s soul or restored some sense of small-town identity? At the very least it would have gotten people talking to their neighbors, an essential element of the devolutionary project.

Under the Mailer-Breslin plan, immediate rent control would have been extended to all dwellings with two or more families. But neighborhoods would manage their own programs, with the City-State funding rehabilitation, not demolition. With the emphasis shifted from handouts to community restoration and neighborhood daycare programs, a person in need of welfare would be beautifying his community while getting job-training in how to restore a house, bettering his credit, and building the foundation for an upwardly mobile lifestyle.

In an age of exploding crime, their default was again local: power to policemen who have the respect of the communities in which they live. The City-State would legalize heroin along the lines of the British methadone system to cut down on drug-related crime and would create incentive programs to join local police forces, such as Breslin’s idea of draft exemptions in exchange for short-term police service or credits to law-school students who served during peak crime hours.

Some of these ideas would have probably failed. Others would have half-worked, leaving people no more or less happy than under the old Albany system. Here and there a blighted neighborhood might have been transformed, reinforcing the belief that enabling local communities to self-govern was not only practically efficient but spiritually nourishing. It is difficult to imagine that New York would have been worse off.

We won’t know. Mailer took just 5 percent of the primary—41,000 votes. Breslin got 66,000, later lamenting, “I am mortified to have taken part in a process that required bars to be closed.” The young foot soldiers of the New Left bought in, but the “hip coalition of the left and right” they had envisioned never materialized.

My father did not live to see the election of Barack Obama, but I wonder what the original “Power to the Neighborhoods” candidate would have made of the community organizer become chief executive. Would he have seen him as just another conventional liberal politician consolidating power in Washington, or might he have seen him as representative of the fruit sprung from the seeds he and Breslin planted in ‘69? Another question comes to mind: in today’s culture of viral messaging and alternative media, would Mailer-Breslin have been able to build the thunderous affirmation my father spoke of and ride that wave to statehood? If the Internet had existed in ’69, is it possible, perhaps even likely, that they could have won?

My father and Jimmy used their celebrity as writers to get free press, the only hope for an underfinanced campaign working not only outside of, but in direct opposition to, the political machine. Obama wrote two bestselling books, propelling his rapid rise to the limelight. It’s unlikely he would be president today without his talent as a writer.

Like my father, he understood the necessity of energizing ordinary people against the regnant establishment. A category-confuser by virtue of his physical appearance, Obama managed to convince a majority that Bush had done such a horrific job of running the country that old white men were no longer qualified to govern. Mailer-Breslin also sought to build a coalition of the dispossessed, yet had no means of showing skeptics the support they were getting on the street and channel that groundswell into mass appeal.

But four decades later and far beyond New York City, the Jeffersonian spirit that animated these two anti-politicians is more relevant than ever. The federal grip is no less strong. The communal bonds are even more frayed. The diagnosis my father delivered in his “Instrument of the City” might have been written yesterday:

… the old confidence that the problems of our life were roughly equal to our abilities has been lost. Our authority has been handed over to the federal power. We expect our economic solutions, our habitats, yes, even our entertainments, to derive from that remote abstract power, remote as the other end of a television tube. We are like wards in an orphan asylum. The shaping of the style of our lives is removed from us—we pay for huge military adventures and social experiments so separated from our direct control that we do not even know where to begin to look to criticize the lack of our power to criticize. We cannot—the words are now a cliché, the life has gone out of them—we cannot forge our destiny. …We wait for abstract impersonal powers to save us…

In an age when evolving problems need new approaches perhaps more than ever, one hopes that the artists and the businessmen, the plumbers and the architects, the house-painters and the restaurant owners, rather than wait for their problems to be solved from above, might look to the Mailer-Breslin campaign for inspiration. They can make their city a better, more interesting place, one block at a time.

John Buffalo Mailer recently produced a documentary adaptation of Naomi Wolf’s best selling book, The End Of America. He is editor at large for Stop Smiling magazine
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/may/04/00014/


We are a country whose greatest science minds are devoted to solving the conundrum of how many gallons of vile crud need to be burned in order to fly one contraption, three men and a bomb from Blefuscu to lilliput. General Striker

chk chk- boom!

[skunk]

What is this hoaxmasters you keep spamming every thread? Is that a porn site or something?

[boycotteverything]

It's the site where the post first appeared. I think we have a rule here about proper citation. It's a good essay. Read it- I think you'll enjoy it.

[skunk]

A rule? Fuck rules.

[boycotteverything]

Read it. I think you'll enjoy it. Copyright rules are important, by the way- even here.

[mojo]

Percentage of students who participated in protests or political activism:

1966: 15.5%
1967: 16.3%
1986: 21.8%
1996: 41.2%



What does it prove?

Depends on your perspective, those that lived through the 60's will claim that they started the movement of political student protest which is why todays students are much more aware, however those who were students during the 90's could claim that the percentage of students involving themselves in political activism dropped in the 80's and its they, the 90's generation, who reignited student political activism.

From the little bit of research i've done on the subject lately its clear that although the 60's sub-culture indeed did clamour for change, there is also many myth's surrounding the decade that don't stand up under closer scrutiny.

Is the 60's mythos greater than the sum of it's achievements?

Most if not all decades that have endured cultural shift probably are.

It seems that those that lived through and experienced the 60's are more interested in self aggrandizement than anything else, apparently if we are critical of the 60's it's because we hate our parents or some such rubbish.

The freedom to be critical of not only government, but of our parents too, was a cornerstone of 60's sub-culture and philosophy, now those same 60's dissidents would have us believe that our criticism of that time is disrespectful and misogynistic!

Hah.

[boycotteverything]

the 90's generation rules! if there is ever to be lasting change it will come about through the generation that came of age in that decade. 1996 was indeed a high water mark. plus they're gonna be paying my social security- at least until they wake up and turn me into Soylent Green...

[skunk]

Stop kissing ass.

[boycotteverything]

i don't need to kiss ass- it's the generation of my kids. and they rock!

[boycotteverything]

Quote:

Percentage of students who participated in protests or political activism:

1966: 15.5%
1967: 16.3%
1986: 21.8%
1996: 41.2%



What does it prove?

It proves that the 60's was a very conservative decade and that the counter culture was a small minority- and that 30 years later the children of that generation are on the cusp of changing everything.

The pride of the Worcester Academy class of 1954

http://taratarotweb.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/abbyhoffman.jpg

[mojo]

the counter-culture of the 60's and 70's had no more impact on society than the romanticism counter-culture of the late 1800's did.
or other counter or sub cultures that came before or after, its intrinsically tied to the advent of industrialization and technolgy.
the awareness that manifested in the 60's occured as technology boomed, television and mass media and global communication bought politics into the living rooms of people everywhere.
hence the spike in political activism in the 1990's, not coincidentally, at a time when the internet became available in most homes.
once again technological advances had more to do with the gathering awareness of youth and their activism than it had to do with some "magical" time of enlightenment that occured during the 60's imho.

[boycotteverything]

I agree with all that. But for whatever reason the generation of the 90's is the hope of the world. Just as the kids of the 60's embraced the counter-cultural ideas of the 20's and 30's- so these kids embrace the ideas of the counter-culture of the 60's and 70's. It's all about Dialectic in the end.

[Ducky]

the counter-culture of the 60's and 70's had no more impact on society than the romanticism counter-culture of the late 1800's did.

I wonder though...

Hard to say whether they were just another crux on our timeline or a major, major shifting point.

It really is all a matter of perspective.

I'm sure if I lived back in the late 1800's, I'd stake claim that THAT era was indeed the best thing to happen to mankind. However, we only have the 'say-so' of those who wrote about it in books; nobody around anymore to give a personal account of what it really was like, and how it impacted on their lives. The closest we had was probably the last of the American Civil war veterans, and they've all passed on.


or other counter or sub cultures that came before or after, its intrinsically tied to the advent of industrialization and technolgy.

Technology is a distinguishing factor alright, but it isn't 'the' main focus in my books. It's tied in with other things as well. Societies attitudes, Religious beliefs, culture, etc.

*Side Note*
What came to mind right now, was the movie 'The Time Machine' (Rod Tayler). When he was watching the earth speed up around him as he was going into the future, he focussed on a particular clothing shop across from his house. I got a kick out of how the mannequin's dress was getting shorter and shorter as the years went by. The scene panned out to include the surrounding buildings and the changes that it entailed.


the awareness that manifested in the 60's occured as technology boomed, television and mass media and global communication bought politics into the living rooms of people everywhere.

THAT, as well as people's mindsets were constantly being re-wired at the same time; except at a faster rate than the previous decades. Folks HAD to catch up, or be left behind.

The women's revolution was getting a kick start. Politicians allowed women to vote; not just because it was 'due time' for us to have our fair share along side men, but more along the lines of that it served a political agenda, and congress knew that the more women to get on board, meant more votes for congress.

[skunk]

Fuck the 60s and fuck the hippies.

They were the emos of their time.

Quoted for truth. There's nothing worse than a god damn emo kid.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/internetdudes/EmoKid.jpg http://www.exclaim.ca/images/up-emo.jpg

[skunk]

LOL!

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/30wattfury/hereyagoemokid.png

[lala]

Lots of little warlords . . . :D

[offsite:1kp0354i]VIOLENT BRITAIN? IT WAS WORSE IN THE 60s
THE PEOPLE SURVEY FINDS &#39;LOVE&#39; KIDS PUT TODAY&#39;S TEEN YOBS IN SHADE
By Marc Baker Marc.Baker@People.Co.Uk
Teenage violence is one of the biggest fears for people in Britain today - but the problem was actually far WORSE in the Swinging Sixties.

Youngsters of the so-called Love Generation were almost TWICEas likely to prowl our streets armed with a knife.

The number of girls carrying a deadly blade in 1968 was DOUBLE the level of today.


Advertisement

And the proportion of kids who are beaten up or the victims of terrifying sex attacks has plummeted by HALF in the past four decades.


The astonishing findings are revealed in a nationwide survey - commissioned by The People - of 1,000 youngsters aged between 16 and 19 and a further 1,000 Brits who were in that age group 40 years ago.


And despite 30 teens being stabbed to death in the UK already this year, the study gives the lie to claims the country is in the grip of an unprecedented epidemic of youth violence.


Just over 100 of today&#39;s youngsters admit they have gone out carrying a knife more than once.


But among the class of 68 - brought up in the shadow of violent running battles between Mods and Rockers - that figure was nearly 200.


And while 48 of today&#39;s kids said they WOULDuse a blade if they got caught up in a street fight, 86 of the older generation admitted they HAD.


The gender breakdown between the two generations is just as alarming


In the year Georgie Fame topped the charts with The Ballad Of Bonnie And Clyde, more than a quarter of boys and a shocking one in eight girls confessed they had carried a knife.


In 2008, the figures are 17 per cent of boys and just 7 per cent of girls. The number of teenage VICTIMSof crime has also plunged since the heady days of flower power.


Back then, nearly half the youngsterswho had been targeted by crooks were assaulted - and a third had suffered sex attacks.


For the 2008 group, just over a third have been assaulted and 14 per cent have been preyed on by perverts.


Even the number of kids getting into trouble with the police has dropped dramatically.


One in five of the 1968 generation admitted falling fall of the law.


But only 13 per cent of today&#39;s youngsters say they have ever clashed with cops.


Despite the huge influx of new drugs like ecstasy and skunk in recent years, more mind-bending substances like heroin and "happy" pills were being used across the UK 40 years ago.


Surprisingly, however, our study found kids are getting more sex in the Naughty Noughties than they did in the Sixties - even though it was an era notorious for embracing free love.


Two thirds of today&#39;s teenagers claim they lost their virginity before they were 18.


But back in 1968, that proportion was only just over half.


Whitehall officials deluged by complaints about yobbo kids today admitted they were taken aback by our findings about the falling levels of teen violence over four decades.


But Professor Clive Norris - who lectures in sociology at the University of Sheffield - was not.


He said: "It is no surprise knife crime was higher in the 1960s because its prevalence was hidden.


"Today the media pays so much attention to such attacks and I fear the numbers have been swelled by hype."


And Doug Sharp, who is professor of criminal justice at Birmingham City University, said: "Knives have been a problem for many, many years.


"We do have a very specific problem today and it&#39;s one we should be seriously worried about. But we must remember there was no immediate media in the 1960s, so news took longer to get into the public domain and tended to have a different focus."


Tory MP Eric Pickles admitted he was one of many men in the Sixties who had always had a penknife in their pocket as a tool.


But he said: "Knives are now big news - not because of a charming increase in whittling skills but because some teenagers don&#39;t feel safe and want to protect themselves from those who might want to stab them."


Mr Pickles poured scorn on the way the Government was trying to crack down on youth crime - including one proposal to force kids convicted of carrying a blade to visit stabbing victims in hospitals.


He said: "I&#39;m not sure patients and health workers would relish the idea of wards being turned into learning resource centres for hoodlums."


The MP added: "One thing is clear - we need an overhaul in approach to tackle violence on our streets."


The Home Office was "surprised" by the findings of our survey.


But a spokeswoman said: "We&#39;re concerned about the young age of people carrying knives today and are committed to getting weapons off our streets."


JADE CONDON


AGE: 17 CARDIFF


Jade Condon insists she would NEVER carry a knife for protection - even though she was once injured rescuing a pal in a vicious street attack.


The teenager vowed: "I won&#39;t carry a blade and I wouldn&#39;t ever use one in a fight."


She added: "I got a broken nose when I stood up for a friend who got jumped by another girl.


"I was going to press charges - but I dropped them because she lives just down the road from me and it would have just been awkward."


CHRIS ANSELL


AGE: 57 BIRMINGHAM


Cabbie Chris Ansell reckons the difference between knife crime today and when he was a teenager in the 60s is that his generation didn&#39;t set out to kill.


The 57-year-old Brummie said: "Loads of people carried knives.


"But it was rare for them to be used to stab someone and you never heard of anyone being knifed to death - it was a more a case of slash them across the face.


"Knife crime now seems to be copycat - kids doing bad things because their mates are. It&#39;s more glamorised."


LUCY GRAFTON


AGE: 17 MARGATE, KENT


Rebel Lucy Grafton, 17, isn&#39;t afraid to admit she would use a blade in a fight.


Lucy, of Margate, Kent, said: "I have carried a knife as a weapon and if someone pulled one on me I&#39;d use it."


The youngster confesses she was once arrested for shoplifting.


And Lucy, who first had sex at 15, has also dabbled with narcotics.


She said: "I have done drugs - but only cannabis.


"And I do drink - but only because my mates do. I don&#39;t really like it."[/offsite:1kp0354i]

http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_headline=violent-britain-it-was-worse-in-the-60s&method=full&objectid=20690651&siteid=93463-name_page.html

[boycotteverything]

hahahah what asshat resurrected this fucking thread? we already settled this issue. the 60's generation accomplished nothing. but- not only that- they're responsible for everything that has ever gone wrong in creation.

[lala]

:lol:

[attachment=0:q2qs7n4e]emo.jpg[/attachment:q2qs7n4e]

[Cogburn]

http://www.varkoume.net/pics/1151590817durham-showers.jpg

[skunk]

They would do that kind of shit in Durham.

[KIWI]

ITMA is from Durham..... :lol:

[Cogburn]

For great justice.

[hp]

The 60s managed to piss at lot of people off. It also assured that the powers would do an even greater job of oppression disguised as necessary law.

Another highlight of cause and effect was the creation of Hoaxmasters daht com

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

:lol:

[GenniferJentle]

I love the 60's and I'm totally a hippy. I have mastered looking like a fell out of a time machine. The homeless people that hang out on the beach often think I'm homeless. I think that means I'm doing it right??

I prefer the English version of the 60's though. Beatles, Cream, Hendrix, the Floyd. Cool clothes, peace and love, giant edible jello sculptures. Tripping on a Sunday afternoon. No war, no college students being gunned down by National Guard. Those, I imagine, were very good times.