The war behind the war behind the war

[theeindiee]

I've talked to quite a few people who say they know for certain and have had experienced a psychic war being waged behind the behind the scenes, best way to describe it. I'm not too knowledgeable on occult arts or psychic abilities, but I am sensetive to them. I've felt this way, as well... like there's actively a psychic war going on..... and I'm involved and I don't know I'm involved but I am regardless.

I would like people knowledgable in this area to come forward and describe this psychic war a little better. Cogburn, I'm looking at you.

[theeindiee]

Exactly WHY is there a psychic war going on? And don't you think humans waging psychic war upon each other seems like a distraction? Don't you think there's something bigger at play using us monkeys as pawns?

[boycotteverything]

I've talked to quite a few people who say they know for certain and have had experienced a psychic war being waged behind the behind the scenes,maybe you can have them sign up here. we need more insipid posts right now.

[theeindiee]

I actually am sending one of them an email right now

[Ima Nasshole]

Umm. Can you elaborate please?

[theeindiee]

Ima Nasshole,

I guess you could call it sorcery or ritual magick. As cogburn puts it, "anti-physics". I'm not at all an adept at this stuff. That's why I am waiting for cogburn to chime in. He could give you a much better elaboration. I just wanted to start a topic discussing it.

I put this in the society sub forum because it seems to be, from what I am hearing, a guiding force as to which way society is going.

Skeptics, this is not for you to poo poo at. I know the criticisms well, but I'd like to hear someone who has experience with occult practices describe what this psychic war is about. It seems silly to me.

My experience has taught me that secrecy is not a good thing. If this is being done in secret, I feel like in the end both sides will lose...IF this is really the case.... which I do know that such abilities to manipulate the fabric of existence DO exist... I've done it myself in very small doses.... but IF this war exists, that's what I'm saying... then shed some light on it.

[Chorlton]

Skeptics, this is not for you to poo poo at. I know the criticisms well, but I'd like to hear someone who has experience with occult practices describe what this psychic war is about. It seems silly to me.
Why not?
You post stuff on an open forum its fair game. Sorry old son
Occult practices are practised by con men, snake oil salesmen and other assorted fuckwits



which I do know that such abilities to manipulate the fabric of existence DO exist... I've done it myself in very small doses.... but IF this war exists, that's what I'm saying... then shed some light on it.

You're having a laugh arent you?

[theeindiee]

Nah.... I mean.... it's fair game so I can't stop you. But at least have some respect and an open mind in this case. In this case, not only have I experienced and accidentally used such abilities, but a philosophy teacher of mine when I was at community college for a brief time (I have trouble keeping the whole school thing going) said he was in India studying supposed master yogis, and he examined a supposed levitation....and he said it was 100 percent real. The yogi was floating off the ground, and full inspection of him was allowed. Also, I was healed by energy work when I was a baby, so I have enough experience first and secondhand experiences from people I trust to know that there's something to psychic abilities. It's just that I'm wondering how deep it goes. HJow much of society's direction has been determined by esoteric meddling?

[GeneralStriker]

HJow much of society's direction has been determined by esoteric meddling?

my own guess would be zero. at least in the terms you've proposed.

[theeindiee]

Well... my guess would be some. I trust one of my sources with my life, but he's very guarded about talking too much about it. Seems anyone involved is very hush hush about it. That's not a good thing. I fear for my friend sometimes. I thought he was dead for 3 years. Supposedly he got taken by dark magick practitioners and was brainwashed for a while, and I remember I saw him once like a year ago and he had no idea who I was. I just recently established contact with him again and he seems level headed, except now he INSISTS that this psychic war is getting intense and he's seen really horrible shit that black magicians do....apparently. I can't disagree with him, because one of my friends who tried to kill me got into the occult, and now he's a Satanist and he's an evil fuck. He used to be an angel when I first met him, but whatever he's gotten into has really fucking warped his mind. You'd think he was insane... only he got everyone I used to know to turn on me as well. It was fucked up, and when they went dark and tried to kill me, it was like they all fell into this trance and it was really scary dude. The only one that seemed like he was cognizant was my friend who I knew was messing with the occult, and he seemed to be directing the others. Maybe he'd been doing this for a long time, and he was never an angel.... but he knew Crowley and Blavatsky and Anton LeVey to the T.

I suspect that he very well may be remotely still affecting me... because his negativity was so powerful that towards the end of our friendship... I thought I was going crazy because I could see a thick black mist around his body whenever I saw him. People... when I was hanging out in that crowd... always made very cryptic comments towards me, and when I asked what the fuck they just said... they'd just laugh and smirk and tell me to forget about it.

Conspiracy against me? Am I that important? No. But maybe the dark ones are closer to you than ytou think. You can't base this upon conventional logic. Compared to conventional logic, this is anti-logic. This is the attempt to create a psychotic Hell on Earth, where everyone is tuirned into a psychotic demon. You've seen serial killers and rapists and child molesters? Imagine a whole culture of psychotic child raping serial killers. That seems to be what some evil "conjurers" seem to want to create.

[Cogburn]

Wow... my first legitimate trollbait on AmKon. :)

By definition all wars are "psychic". What do you consider a "psychic war"?

Just want to make sure we're speaking the same language before continuing.

[theeindiee]

Well... I guess what I'm referring to is an "occult" war. A war between people who have learned to manipulate the fabric of reality for certain purposes. A war using esoteric means to achieve goals, be them of "white" or "black" purposes. I'm assuming there are different groups of people with differing agendas... but I am wondering what the impact of these "wars" is having on society as a whole.

[Cogburn]

"The history of the world is the history of the warfare between Secret Societies" - Ishmael Reed

I wish I could provide a more direct answer, but the specific nature of the topic makes that difficult. This may meander a bit.

First, forget that you are a westerner and view yourself simply as human. Your history is that of the aboriginal in Australia or America and the bushman in Africa as much as it is the Popes and Kings of Europe.

From time beyond memory humanity has had portions of its population dedicated to the esoteric arts. This is without exception across time, space and culture.

This has never ended. It continues in the West with organizations such as F&AM, AMORC, OTO, AA, and the GD. The two former were established by Sir Francis Bacon in the late 17th century based on... a number of things, and the latter 3 being a result of Crowley's efforts.

It cannot be understated that these 5 organizations dictate the arguable majority of occult esoteric philosophy in the Western world.

It is the decedents of both those organizations and those who founded those organizations, both genetic and philosophical, whose presence you see in the symbology employed by Western nations.

"War" implies intent of opposition.

Given all that I've mentioned so far, who is the opponent?

[Ima Nasshole]

I don't know if it is a side effect of the psychic war or not, but I have the compulsion to beat myself like a rented mule. I have jerked off for like the 11th time today and I don't get it.

[Chorlton]

Well... my guess would be some. I trust one of my sources with my life, but he's very guarded about talking too much about it. Seems anyone involved is very hush hush about it.


Because they dont want people finding out they are conmen. Any serious scrutiny generally shows they are fakes and hoaxes.



That's not a good thing. I fear for my friend sometimes. I thought he was dead for 3 years.

Dont worry. BE's been dead for years. He just wont lay down.



Supposedly he got taken by dark magick practitioners and was brainwashed for a while, and I remember I saw him once like a year ago and he had no idea who I was.
Sounds like any one of many mental illnesses



I just recently established contact with him again and he seems level headed, except now he INSISTS that this psychic war is getting intense and he's seen really horrible shit that black magicians do....apparently.
There is no proof that 'Black Magic' is anything other than people seeing and believing what they want. I spent 6 months in the Dom Rep in the late 70's, watching their Voodooism and alleged magic and it was all fake and bullshit. Mainly aimed at separating people from their money



I can't disagree with him, because one of my friends who tried to kill me got into the occult, and now he's a Satanist and he's an evil fuck.
Do some research on Mental illness, its all there.


He used to be an angel when I first met him, but whatever he's gotten into has really fucking warped his mind. You'd think he was insane... only he got everyone I used to know to turn on me as well. It was fucked up, and when they went dark and tried to kill me, it was like they all fell into this trance and it was really scary dude. The only one that seemed like he was cognizant was my friend who I knew was messing with the occult, and he seemed to be directing the others. Maybe he'd been doing this for a long time, and he was never an angel.... but he knew Crowley and Blavatsky and Anton LeVey to the T.
Most mad people do. But that doesnt mean they arent totally insane.


I suspect that he very well may be remotely still affecting me... because his negativity was so powerful that towards the end of our friendship... I thought I was going crazy because I could see a thick black mist around his body whenever I saw him. People... when I was hanging out in that crowd... always made very cryptic comments towards me, and when I asked what the fuck they just said... they'd just laugh and smirk and tell me to forget about it.
Sounds like classic paranoia to me


Conspiracy against me? Am I that important? No. But maybe the dark ones are closer to you than ytou think.
'Dark Ones' ??Yes theres a few that live in the town, named Winston and Emmanuel.
Wake up FFS



You can't base this upon conventional logic. Compared to conventional logic, this is anti-logic. This is the attempt to create a psychotic Hell on Earth, where everyone is tuirned into a psychotic demon.
Yes you can base it on conventional logic. YOU believe it because you want to, either consciously or unconsciously, but that doesnt mean it isnt all total crap.
But you said it yourself 'psychotic demon' yes, psychotic meaning mentally unstable.



You've seen serial killers and rapists and child molesters? Imagine a whole culture of psychotic child raping serial killers. That seems to be what some evil "conjurers" seem to want to create.
What they want, and reality are two different things. They have influence only upon those who arent strong enough, or logical enough to see through their scaremongering bullshit.

[Cogburn]

Well... my guess would be some. I trust one of my sources with my life, but he's very guarded about talking too much about it. Seems anyone involved is very hush hush about it.


Because they dont want people finding out they are conmen. Any serious scrutiny generally shows they are fakes and hoaxes.


Yes and no.

There's two reasons people don't talk about results of esoteric research: A) they are charlatans attempting to make you think that they are possessors of secret knowledge or B) they don't understand it themselves.

Note that we're not talking bullshit channelers, bending spoons, or cold readers, we're talking about the efficacy of esoteric ritual.

If you're going to make a sweeping generalization like that I'm going to have to ask you to backup your shit.

[boycotteverything]

the efficacy of esoteric ritual.is there such a thing? "If you're going to make a sweeping generalization like that I'm going to have to ask you to backup your shit." This challenge is a doubled edged sword. Are you up to it?

[Cogburn]

the efficacy of esoteric ritual.is there such a thing? "If you're going to make a sweeping generalization like that I'm going to have to ask you to backup your shit." This challenge is a doubled edged sword. Are you up to it?
And ruin my possible book deal?

[boycotteverything]

Pete Levenda already has that market covered.

[Chorlton]

Note that we're not talking bullshit channelers, bending spoons, or cold readers, we're talking about the efficacy of esoteric ritual.

If you're going to make a sweeping generalization like that I'm going to have to ask you to backup your shit.

Sweeping generalisations? 'Esoteric Ritual' ??This bloke is talking about Black magic Bullshit and alleged possession, neither of which exist.
The people who practise this shit dont want anyone delving too deep, because anyone with half a brain would find out its all faked and crap designed to:

A/ Make money from the believing fools
B/ to control the believing fools.

Esoteric Ritual has little or nothing to do with Black magic or alleged posession

[boycotteverything]

...or
C/ Resurrect medieval superstition.

[theeindiee]

I'd just like to know.... what do these people fear, Cog? Do they fear each other? Do they fear just going with the flow and seeing where your life evolves you to? Do they really need the "Power"?

Like... to me, I wouldn't really feel right about knowingly making a concentrated effort to try and change the course of my life by forcing reality to bend to my will. How do I know that my will is pure while I am alive with an ego and with desire. You say you are pure of will, but you yourself say that you've "gained" over others from your Arts. Would a person completely pure of will wish to gain anything other than peace and understanding? Would a person of pure intent view people as masses?

This is why, while you may be nowhere near an evil fuck, but just getting yours a bit.... I fear those who have led you to believe that you... but more importantly They somehow deserve to manipulate the world like they do... are evil fucks. Parasites killing the world. Never let monkeys do the jobs of Gods. Don't even let Gods in monkey suits do the jobs of Gods, because usually the Gods get too excited about being monkeys and forget things they should remember.

Cogburn, I highly doubt you are at the top of the totem. This is why maybe I suggest being open to change. Do not view the world as masses of people. We're all individual pieces of the Creator experiencing itself infinitely, and given the right opportuinities, I think everyone here on Earth now has the ability to become consciously aware. People have a hard time being able to choose when they have been incessantly programmed since before they are able to remember. We are not meant to use any abilities we may gain for anything other than protecting the Earth... and it is not up to some elite few intellectuals who are only that way because they horde knowledge. It's up to everyone. Give everyone the chhance to know this, and they will realize.

It's ridiculous. I am so intrigued by the things you say, Cog... but I keep having to remind myself that love is transparent. This in not. This is very very decieving.... and I can't help but think of the Old Liar when it comes to things of an esoteric nature.

These people act as if they've got something to lose. That doesn't sound very enlightened to me. It sounds like they've (and prolly you've) been decieved.

Chorlton....obviously you've never been possessed after someone performs a "Satanic" ritual. I had experience being possessed when I was 14. Stupid kids just fucking around summoning demons with a ouija board, then it got too real when I started speaking in tounges and I jumped on my friend and tried to kill him. I didn't believe it until something took me over that night... and maybe it's been with me ever since.

Go ahead, Chorlton.... fuck around with the esoteric arts for a while. Nothing to fear but fear itself, right?

and boycotteverything.... like belief in America and celebrities and authority isn't superstition?

I tend to think that magic is very real, considering it is a cross cultural phenomenon spanning since prehistoric times and beyond.... and considering that I could move a pen 3 inches with my mind a couple of times. If a stupid basic could do that, what can a master do?

[boycotteverything]

and boycotteverything.... like belief in America and celebrities and authority isn't superstition?no. it's myth.

[Chorlton]

I'd just like to know.... what do these people fear, Cog? Do they fear each other? Do they fear just going with the flow and seeing where your life evolves you to? Do they really need the "Power"?
No sir, we need a defined lack of bullshit and people unable to think for themselves


Chorlton....obviously you've never been possessed after someone performs a "Satanic" ritual.

Ive seen people drive themselves into a total mess and call it 'posession' but it isnt, its just a different mental state, its also worth noting that the people i have seen that claimed 'posession' were also on drugs or hallucinogens of some type.


I had experience being possessed when I was 14.
Sorry, you didnt.


Stupid kids just fucking around summoning demons with a ouija board, then it got too real when I started speaking in tounges and I jumped on my friend and tried to kill him. I didn't believe it until something took me over that night... and maybe it's been with me ever since.
Oh no! Not a Ouija board and 'speaking in tongues'. ITS ALL BOLLOCKS wake up FFS
Get yourself a PMA (positive mental attitude) and life will be a lot better



Go ahead, Chorlton.... fuck around with the esoteric arts for a while. Nothing to fear but fear itself, right?
Yes you nailed it in one. Witchcraft, Black Magic, Posession, ghosts, its all rubbish.


I tend to think that magic is very real, considering it is a cross cultural phenomenon spanning since prehistoric times and beyond.... and considering that I could move a pen 3 inches with my mind a couple of times. If a stupid basic could do that, what can a master do?
Really??? well lets see you do it.
If you can do it in front of James Randi he'll give you 1 Million Dollars.
But I bet you cant.

And I tell you what. If you can move a pen 3 inches in front of me and a camera with just the power of your mind, I'll give you $10,000.
If you fail. You pay my airfare from the UK to US and back OK

[boycotteverything]

just arrived for indy-

[imgs=600:3acgdqcs]http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=32a511b053&view=att&th=1213a0be6d6f407b&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw[/imgs:3acgdqcs]

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Really??? well lets see you do it.
If you can do it in front of James Randi he'll give you 1 Million Dollars.
But I bet you cant.

And I tell you what. If you can move a pen 3 inches in front of me and a camera with just the power of your mind, I'll give you $10,000.
If you fail. You pay my airfare from the UK to US and back OK

Ever hear the saying "if you believe you can or if you believe you can't, you're right"? It's rather like that Chorlton.
This also plays into "proving" it.
Imagine if you will me and you standing across from each other uses equal force on the complete opposite side of each other to push a ball opposite directions.
What will the ball do?
It's rather like that.
Which is something like the cult that pushes "What the bleep?" intentionally forgets.

[Chorlton]

But the fact is, the man stated he could move a pen 3 inches with the power of his mind.
Its never been done, never seen to be done in any scientific tests.
Even the Russians who video'ed a man allegedly moving things with 'the power of his mind' havent taken up Randi's challenge, so we must assume it was rigged.

This man says he can do it. So lets see. I dont believe him. Its that simple.
Claims like that simply MUST be challenged and not left to drift

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Really?
Why must they be?
And if what I said was true what exactly does that prove?
Seeing as to how you ignored it.

[Chorlton]

Really?
Why must they be?


Because foolish claims and stupid beliefs if proposed on a public forum need to be rebuked or challenged, because if left it may be down to 'encourager les autres'


And if what I said was true what exactly does that prove?

What the equal forces against each other analogy? Ridiculous and irrelevant.
This man has said HE SAW HIS MIND MOVE A PEN. I'm challenging it
Your analogy was theoretical, this man says his claim is true and physical


Seeing as to how you ignored it.
I ignored it as it was irrelevant with reference to the mans claim. It might be relevant to you but to the original premis, it wasnt

[boycotteverything]

the only thing this guy can move is his bowels. i'm very tired of these fucktard claims.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Because foolish claims and stupid beliefs if proposed on a public forum need to be rebuked or challenged, because if left it may be down to 'encourager les autres'

Too bad how whether a claim or a belief is foolish is subjective and as you put it earlier.
I mean, hey, I think people with a label maker in their head that automatically *or near as quickly* labels everything out of the ordinary as hoax, fake, trick or etc to be foolish and more than a little stupid. Just as stupid and foolish as those that see the "super"natural in everything.
Or those that think that just because the guys in lab coats tell them something it must be correct due to a mistaken belief that PhDs erase human nature.
But, it is subjective.
:lol:


What the equal forces against each other analogy? Ridiculous and irrelevant.
This man has said HE SAW HIS MIND MOVE A PEN. I'm challenging it
Your analogy was theoretical, this man says his claim is true and physical

Not even willing to bend those neurons to even try to get inkling as to what I am saying are you?
You know what Einstein said about imagination right?


I ignored it as it was irrelevant with reference to the mans claim. It might be relevant to you but to the original premis, it wasnt

Sure was relevant, but seeing as to how you are refusing to try to even see what I meant, I expect such a response.

Allow me to break it down for you since the concept escapes you.
The idea is that me believing I can do something and you believing I can't do something or simple can't be done cancels each other out.
To put it in short form. Just like if we were pushing a ball in opposite directions using the same amount of force.
That help?

And ChihauhuaBoy *BE* what you are and/or are not tired of is even more irrevelant than most people as you are an irrevelant person.

[boycotteverything]

You know what Einstein said about imagination right?yeah- that mediocre minds have none. welcome to the club.

[Chorlton]

Allow me to break it down for you since the concept escapes you.
The idea is that me believing I can do something and you believing I can't do something or simple can't be done cancels each other out.
To put it in short form. Just like if we were pushing a ball in opposite directions using the same amount of force.
That help?
The concept didnt escape me, dont be presumptuous.

But no, it isnt like if we were pushing a ball in opposite drections. That analogy presumes that each person is the same size, weight and has the same sized hands and muscle powere etc etc etc ad infinitum
But using your analogy, If someone says they saw a UFO and someone elses says they didnt, thats cancels everything out?
What utter rot.
What we are talking about is someone who has made a claim. A claim that he says he can, or has, made pencils move 3 inches with the power of his brain. Im prepared to be convinced, if he can do it in front of me with a camera on. If he cant do it then its bollocks.
Simples

[boycotteverything]

What we are talking about is someone who has made a claim. A claim that he says he can, or has, made pencils move 3 inches with the power of his brain. Im prepared to be convinced, if he can do it in front of me with a camera on. If he cant do it then its bollocks.
Simples

I believe it was a pen, not a pencil. anyone can move a fucking pencil.

[Chorlton]

A pen? they let him have sharp objects in his place ?

[boycotteverything]

i guess they do. and they also seem to be allowing him to consort with dimwitted night watchmen. go figure.

[boycotteverything]

dont be presumptuous.

For I have known them all already, known them all:—
Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,
I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;
I know the voices dying with a dying fall
Beneath the music from a farther room.
So how should I presume?

[Chorlton]

AHHHH
Dont ya just Love TS Eliot ??

I Like this bit

"I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas."

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

What part of using the same amount of force you missing Chorlton?
I explicitly said that, twice now, none the less.
Tis not I presumption is coming from I fear.
:lol:

[boycotteverything]

AHHHH
Dont ya just Love TS Eliot ??I do so love that man. Prufrock is ours now.

[boycotteverything]

do i dare to eat a peach?

[Chorlton]

No I apologise, its obfuscation coming from you.

Amazing claims need amazing evidence

[Chorlton]

do i dare to eat a peach?
No
Eat A-peci ??

Haha

[boycotteverything]

that line bathed my mind the day you told us that you'd closed your London office. but there is an exquisite beauty in our reflections.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

No I apologise, its obfuscation coming from you.

Amazing claims need amazing evidence

How obfuscation pray tell?

[boycotteverything]

How obfuscation pray tell?Damn! It took you long enough to google that word, eh?

[Chorlton]

Obfuscation is the concealment of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing, intentionally ambiguous, and more difficult to interpret.

All I want is for the the boyo to showme him moving a pen or pencil or anything with the power of his mind.

[boycotteverything]

he'll have an answer for you as soon as he's done googling 'pencil.' give the poor guy a break- he's operating without a brain.

[Lexion]

Presdigitation.

Second line.

Regards,
Lex

[Chorlton]

Presdigitation.

Second line.

Regards,
Lex


Nope

prestidigitation

[Lexion]

Thanks for the correction.

At least you knew what I
meant.

:)

Regards,
Lex

[Chorlton]

I knew what you meant but I'm not sure you knew what you meant when you thought you meant it

I think ?

[boycotteverything]

the speedy fingers of the magician. therein lies the lie.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Obfuscation is the concealment of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing, intentionally ambiguous, and more difficult to interpret.

All I want is for the the boyo to showme him moving a pen or pencil or anything with the power of his mind.


Please please please tell me you are not that obtuse, unintentionally. I expect as much from ChihauhaBoy but not you.
I know what obfuscation means and in no way did my question infer that I didn't.
I asked for an explaination as to what I was doing that was even remotely obfuscation, which obviously you cannot provide otherwise you'd not being playing stupid.
I offered a clear and plausible possibility such "abilities" would not work under the stated conditions.
You, on the other hand, can only intentionally misintrepret and distort what is said *I only say intentionally because I know you not to be that stupid* about the possiblity for the sake of discredition as it does challenge your tightly held preconceptions.
If infered it as fact it was only because I believe it to be so, but I know well enough to take my beliefs with a grain of salt.

[Chorlton]

I dont take my beliefs with a grain of salt as they have been learned over many years.
THATS how I know the fool could never move a pen or pencil with his 'power'. I have watched people who said they could do this self same trick, and they either blew the pen, or just couldnt do it and blamed it on everything they could.
If someone can only do something in private then they cant do it. THAT is the basis I work on.

I just dont wish to play your hypothetical game. That is pointless.
Basically, for me, when someone claims they can do something and derides others because of their belief that they cannot, then that person has to put up or shut up, hence my challenge.
Your postulation of push<>push in this instance is not valid.

[boycotteverything]

Please please please tell me you are not that obtuse, unintentionally. Two things. Learn to spell. And get over your cheap self. BE- over and out.


explaination
discredition
infered
possiblity
misintrepret jesus...

[Chorlton]

deaman will be along soon to make everything look intelligent !

[boycotteverything]

I think this character might be the Dumbman's sock.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Well there is a saying "No fool like an old fool.".
I wasn't talking about you when I was talking about belief, it is astonishing me how little you seem to be paying attention yet feel safe in making the claims you are.
And once again you intentionally don't get the analogy, oh well, I know you can't challenge it on any other level as a great deal is unknown to us at current. Well, beyond the childish and shop worn tactics you are using.
I cease this conversation forthwith.
Enjoy your bias tainted view.
You may well be right despite yourself but I rather doubt it.

Oh, and look. Continued childish stupidity.
I don't even like deamon.

[Chorlton]

Well there is a saying "No fool like an old fool.".
I wasn't talking about you when I was talking about belief, it is astonishing me how little you seem to be paying attention yet feel safe in making the claims you are.
And once again you intentionally don't get the analogy, oh well, I know you can't challenge it on any other level as a great deal is unknown to us at current. Well, beyond the childish and shop worn tactics you are using.
I cease this conversation forthwith.
Enjoy your bias tainted view.

Oh, and look. Continued childish stupidity.
I don't even like deamon.

Seems like I have to explain everything as you fail to comprehend and accuse me of the same.
You see, I do not wish to be drawn into your views of what is and isnt possible.
This entire thing is based on a claim. I say its bollocks unless it can be proven and you jump in and start analysing the efficacy of the test.??

Lets get the proof over then start arguing about the test.

[Bitchkoma]

Presdigitation.

Second line.

Regards,
Lex

The excited state decays by vibrational relaxation into the first excited singlet state. Yes, yes and merrily we go. Reduce atmospheric nitrogen by 0.03%. It is not much consolation that society will pick up the bits, leaving us at eight modern where punishment, rather than interdiction, is paramount. Please, cut the fuse. They will not harm their own. End of line. Limiting diffusions to two dimensions increases the number of evolutionary jumps within the species. Rise and measure the temple of the five. Transformation is the goal. They will not harm their own. Data-font synchronization complete.

[Chorlton]

WOT E SED

[boycotteverything]

Bravo! ...and lay off the Ovaltine.


I cease this conversation forthwith.Good idea. You're way out of your depth. Oh- and be careful not to step in the dogshit...

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

How dare I question and use my brain for myself!
How dare I not simply close my mind to any possible beyond what is accepted as normal and correct!
FOR SHAME!
:lol:
The conditions I speculated about would invalidate your test.
Conditions of which you have yet to offer, beyond some rather silly distortions, pretentous declarations and childish attack tactics, a plausible reason why it is impossible as you repeatedly state. Much like a broken record. Even despite recent advances and the possibilities presented in theoretical physics.

Simple fact of the matter you have decided and nothing is going to change your mind regardless.
Reality doesn't need to jump through your silly hoops, sorry to tell you, and anyone who really cares what you believe *or me or anyone else for that matter* is a fool.
And with that, as I said earlier, I take leave of this conversation.
Good day.

[Chorlton]

Does that mean I keep the ball ?

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

*pats Chorlton on the head*

[boycotteverything]

How dare I question and use my brain for myself!

whatever happened to
I cease this conversation forthwith?

[Chorlton]

"The conditions I speculated about would invalidate your test. "

Speculated, thats about it.

If I'm paying the money I set the parameters and the rules.
If he could do what he said he could he would have ripped Randi's arms off.
He didnt
Its bollocks

[Chorlton]

[quote]How dare I question and use my brain for myself!

whatever happened to
I cease this conversation forthwith?[/quote:3q58qlyl]
He was speculating

[boycotteverything]

*pats Chorlton on the head*You couldn't carry his jock, you arrogant idiot.

[Bitchkoma]

All these things at once and many more, not because it wishes harm, because it likes violent vibrations to change constantly.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Ohh look chihauhauboy has found a new ass to kiss.
Good for him.

And Chorlton, I am not going to repeat myself but if you want to have the last word.
That is really nothing more of the same trash you spewed earlier and that has been addressed.
Go right ahead.

[Chorlton]

You addressed nothing
You muddied the pitch with your idiotic postulations, thereby supporting the original foolish claims

[boycotteverything]

We liked you better when you said this:

And with that, as I said earlier, I take leave of this conversation.
Good day.Of course you're incapable of following through on anything except stepping in dogshit. We already knew this. So why do you persist?

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

You addressed nothing
You muddied the pitch with your idiotic postulations, thereby supporting the original foolish claims

Rrrriiiiggghhhhhttttt.
Keep telling yourself that, might come true.
Rather doubt it though.

[Chorlton]

You dont question the original claim, your irrelevant premis doesnt question it either.
Simpy because you claim the test cant be made doesnt make it so.

[Bitchkoma]

Compartmentalize integrity conflicts with the obligation to provide access.

[Chorlton]

You dont get out much Bitch, do ya?

[Bitchkoma]

Assume the relaxation length of photons in the sample atmosphere is constant.

[Cogburn]

I'd just like to know.... what do these people fear, Cog? Do they fear each other? Do they fear just going with the flow and seeing where your life evolves you to? Do they really need the "Power"?

99% of people that subscribe to the efficacy of the esoteric arts have no idea what they are talking about or what they are doing. It is due to this fundamental misunderstanding that most people attempt to ascribe potential to such forces that does not exist.

Every single living being utilizes the esoteric forces that "magicians" attempt to harness with specific ritual every single moment they are alive.

You have always possessed the power. My cat possesses the power. An amoeba possesses the power. The difference in application of the will as to how that power is employed. Consider it as analogous to the the concept of the "Buddha nature". Fear destroys the efficacy of esoteric ritual as lack of understanding dilutes the force of will.

Are they afraid? Are they trying to make you afraid?

You can tell who knows what the fuck they are talking about by the use of fear. Fear is borne from ignorance and is dispelled by understanding.

If someone is attempting to use such experiences to scare you it's nothing more than the misery of ignorance loving company. Some might call it "psychic vampirism".


I tend to think that magic is very real, considering it is a cross cultural phenomenon spanning since prehistoric times and beyond.... and considering that I could move a pen 3 inches with my mind a couple of times. If a stupid basic could do that, what can a master do?
I think that you may have misunderstood the circumstances of the events you witnessed.

This is not the universe of Fullmetal Alchemist. You cannot directly manipulate matter with force of will, not more than you can build a house by using only force of the wind, however when properly applied the wind can change the weather.

The belief that such direct material manipulations are possible via the esoteric arts is the fundamental misconception inherent within popular Western philosophy that will always render the application of such knowledge impossible for the greater portion of the population.

To those of you who claim that such esoteric forces are resigned to the realm of "belief", I say to you that it resides more in the realm of the "undiscovered country of the interactions between physics, psychology and biology".

@BE: Come mothers and fathers throughout the land... your sons and your daughters are beyond your command... and don't criticize what you can't understand... The old road is rapidly fading.... Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand...

[theeindiee]

huhh fuck that was more responses than I thought. Let me state this. I can't always move pens with my mind. I can't always astrally project. I can't always do it because I don't know how I did it. It was an accident. So yeah you ask me to move a pen with my mind, I'll ask you to move a fucking pen too because it's not everyday knowledge and I don't know enough to stumble upon it in steps. it's probably much simpler than I think, butr the exact like whateverthefuck method employed was not fully understood. I was just randomly trying different things. I should've written down my exact mental state at trhe time so I could duplicate it. If it happens again, I assure you I'll try. From what I remember, twice it happened. Perfectly level table, perfectly stable pen. no wind. no hands. no disturbances. just JOOP "OHHHH FUCK!!!!!!" and then it's over and I'm left trying to repeat it to no avail. I finally give up a couple of days later after trying several more times. Then I forget about it and move on with it.

Cogburn, I tend to disagree with you. I'm almost positive. I fucking did it somehow... unless it was an invisible elf or a wind blew in strong from the wall. It WAS with intent.... so accidental was the wrong word, but seemingly stumbled over and then not really sure why what I did affected the pen is more accurate. So.... direct manipulation, or feedback loop, or however it came.... I dunno. I don't control it yet nor may I ever be able to.... nor do I care much about it because it doesn't really matter in the greater scheme of things.

I don't need to use ritual magick or esoteric means to make my life happy. I'm wondering..... the whole point of this thread..... is what is the point? Do you think that you are that special that you believe what you do is so important? OR why can't everyone just be.... and let the flow dictate where it goes. I think that's what got us in the whole mess in the first place.... was questioning why a little too much and getting fucking fenaggled by things which sell us on the idea that we need anything more than we have. If these abilitries are inherent in everyone... exactly why are you making this seem like only a certain type of person can use it? It's not so much in what you say, it's what you're not saying that I'm getting that feeling.

[theeindiee]

You're saying "Ohh you don't understand. You're just afraid."

Uhhh no if it were something so important to our survival, what I don't understand is the complacency by supposedly wise and all knowing people who hide in the shadows and keep it something only for the initiated. The only reason we might be uninitiated is because of the brainwashing. And don't try to undermine the severity of the confusion that brainwashing causes to think rational and make true choices. You may have a choice, but most people's have been severely impaired. And coincidentially, as you seem to be alluding to, it's these very esoteric kinds of societies in which these "elite" are members, that are coordinating many of the methods used to dumb us down and away from true knowledge. Good people turned into irrational tools. That's not anything wise nor is it noble... because there are some very special people out there who could change the world, if they were clear enough to know better.

Everyone deserves a fair and balanced chance, and this is neither fair nor is it balanced. I've had people try to tell me I don't understand over and over again... but I understand perfectly. Peace and love begats peace and love, and it can heal and make extraordinary anything.... as long as it is open. This is closed and in the dark, and it doesn't belong here in that way.

If you willingly admit that you are brainwashed into understanding, couldn't you just as easily be as confused as a suicide bomber?

[theeindiee]

Does this form you take now matter to you that much that you need to manipulate your life esoterically like that just to get ahead? What I see as fearful is the initial need to join into one of these groups in order to gain control of your life or control of other things. What I don't see as wise is the surrendering of yourself to a path of knowing brainwashing in order to find "the way". Anyone who offers me "the way" but then brings me into a the dark and says "surrender" to Tetragrammaton or whatever Creator or name you use for it is.... leading me.... and therefore is exherting force upon me to go a certain way which in fact is not the will of me, but a manipulated will. Especially if you're brainwashed into it! People can be brainwashed into not only believing but knowing and even EXPERIENCING that Sia Baba is God. People can be brainwashed into "knowing" anything. If what you know isn't really alliugning with the rest of us in it's understandings... because truth is simple.... than what you know isn't really worth knowing at all.

Word games is all this sounds like to me sometimes. Using grammar as a weapon. I understand that we all must surrender to our own path, free of any group mind.... because whether or not you believe in one collective will or way at all, even if there is a collective will or way.... there exists also the individual. So when you say I'm using false thinking because I refer to things such as "power" and "control", you ignore the fact that these are realities now created by a group mind. Power and control is exherted and becomes a reality when an imbalance exists. Is it possible that this esoteric art is causing this imbalance?

"No it is not possible because those who understand understand all."

This is what you are saying with what you are not saying that makes me suspicious.

[Lexion]

[attachment=0:2500jaq5]RazorMethLine.jpg[/attachment:2500jaq5]

[Cogburn]

Does this form you take now matter to you that much that you need to manipulate your life esoterically like that just to get ahead? What I see as fearful is the initial need to join into one of these groups in order to gain control of your life or control of other things. What I don't see as wise is the surrendering of yourself to a path of knowing brainwashing in order to find "the way". Anyone who offers me "the way" but then brings me into a the dark and says "surrender" to Tetragrammaton or whatever Creator or name you use for it is.... leading me.... and therefore is exherting force upon me to go a certain way which in fact is not the will of me, but a manipulated will. Especially if you're brainwashed into it! People can be brainwashed into not only believing but knowing and even EXPERIENCING that Sia Baba is God. People can be brainwashed into "knowing" anything. If what you know isn't really alliugning with the rest of us in it's understandings... because truth is simple.... than what you know isn't really worth knowing at all.

Word games is all this sounds like to me sometimes. Using grammar as a weapon. I understand that we all must surrender to our own path, free of any group mind.... because whether or not you believe in one collective will or way at all, even if there is a collective will or way.... there exists also the individual. So when you say I'm using false thinking because I refer to things such as "power" and "control", you ignore the fact that these are realities now created by a group mind. Power and control is exherted and becomes a reality when an imbalance exists. Is it possible that this esoteric art is causing this imbalance?

"No it is not possible because those who understand understand all."

This is what you are saying with what you are not saying that makes me suspicious.
I do not judge your intent based on my world view, I'd ask the same in return.

If I left the impression that I thought you were living in fear, that would be a mistake. What I wished to express was that your friend is indeed living in fear and was attempting to instill that same fear in you.

I walk the path laid out before me selected in the direction of my choosing. I may leave the path for the open field, change direction or simply stop if I were to so choose. Free will rules all things.

The term "brainwashing" is getting in the way here, as you seem to be ascribing it a negative connotation that it does not deserve in this context.

To be more accurate, what I chose to subject myself to is neuro-linguistic programming with psychological reinforcement. I made a conscious decision to subject myself to such programming in the effort to gain knowledge from the information contained therein. One doesn't "lose" oneself in such a process, one "immerses" oneself in the subject. The former requires the denial of "self", whereas the latter does not.

... and no, the implication that understanding is a place you reach and then go "Now what?" is not anywhere close to accurate. The human mind is limited and as such understanding tends to come like the bud of a flower unfolding. I don't recall anyone ever having unfolded it so much that they reached the stamen. I don't think that's possible.

Guru-ism would be the second failure of Western culture that retards the individual's exploration of the esoteric arts. It stifles the individual and opens legitimate practitioners and teachers to unworthy derision.

As to your own experiences, probability is a bitch. I can say with a high degree of certainty that it is highly improbable that the facts of the events you witnessed were accurate to your perceptions. Will is like the wind. The wind changes the weather and the weather changes the world. Such analogies leave the possibility of the improbable. There is nothing in my research that indicates such effects should be able to be manifest, but my research is far from complete.

Can I say for certain it's impossible? No. Do I have all the answers? No way. Feynman didn't have all the answers, either. Answering every question you have means that you aren't truly exploring anything new.

[Chorlton]

@BE: Come mothers and fathers throughout the land... your sons and your daughters are beyond your command... and don't criticize what you can't understand... The old road is rapidly fading.... Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand...

Written in and for the people of the 60's. and you got it out of context

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

[boycotteverything]

to which i'd only add:

something is happening
and you don't know what it is...
do you, Mista Jones?

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Chorlton, too bad it's applies to yours now as well.
Funny old wheel it is.
:D

[Bitchkoma]

What actually transpires beneath the veil of an event horizon?

[GeneralStriker]

Dr. Exile rolling in the hay with his freckled hippies,of course.

[Chorlton]

Chorlton, too bad it's applies to yours now as well.
Funny old wheel it is.
:D

The fruit of my loins is under a very tight leash.

Apart from which, kids now wouldnt know a revolution if it hit them in the face

[GeneralStriker]

...but he does know the pungent odor of the dogshit on his boots. apparently that's enough for Mista Rat.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Chorlton, too bad it's applies to yours now as well.
Funny old wheel it is.
:D

The fruit of my loins is under a very tight leash.

Apart from which, kids now wouldnt know a revolution if it hit them in the face


Too bad yours didn't either.
:lol:

[GeneralStriker]

...another member of the mojo mob. shit on his boots- like the rest.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Better than inbetween my ears like certain people, namely you.
:lol:

[Chorlton]

Y'know I distinctly remember someone saying they were 'taking leave of this discussion'? yet now remains around like a fart in a phonebox to throw childish insults, thereby demeaning himself even lower than a dachsunds balls??

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

I did take leave of the conversation with you Chorty.
And then chose to engauge in some insult swapping with the halfwit.
Or do you think that every comment made in a conversation with another in the same thread is really a conversation with you?
:lol:

[GeneralStriker]

engauge

[GeneralStriker]

Or did you mean' engorge?' As Jesus said, "Man does not live on smegma alone. Except the Rat, of course."

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

You know your pretty bad at insulting when you have to fall back on typos.
Not to mention your amazingly lame declarations about stuff you cannot know.

[GeneralStriker]

You know your pretty bad at insulting when you have to fall back on typos. If they were typos I'd ignore them. But, unfortunately, they are more an indication of stupidity.

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Incorrect.
No matter how much you may wish that was true chihauhuaboy doesn't make it true.
Especially considering I can keep track of a conversation and talk about the subject without resorting to ad hom or us versus them BS tactics.

[Cogburn]

You know your pretty bad at insulting when you have to fall back on typos. If they were typos I'd ignore them. But, unfortunately, they are more an indication of stupidity.
One might gather it's because the actual topic is beyond your level of comprehension.

I'll take spelling or punctuation errors over the repeated exemplification of willful ignorance any day.

[Chorlton]

Incorrect.
No matter how much you may wish that was true chihauhuaboy doesn't make it true.
Especially considering I can keep track of a conversation and talk about the subject without resorting to ad hom or us versus them BS tactics.

Are you completely stupid?
Most of your last posts have been nothing but Ad Hom insults.

You must have 'deaman disease' You can see a flea on someone elses back whilst ignoring the elephant on your own.

What a wanker

[Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Are you completely stupid?
Most of your last posts have been nothing but Ad Hom insults.

You must have 'deaman disease' You can see a flea on someone elses back whilst ignoring the elephant on your own.

What a wanker


Even though you ran off crying I will leave this for your inevitable return.
Hey dipshit you and your little assclown boyfriend started the ad hom bullshit.
So sorry you can't take your own shit fired back at you.
I know your old, but grow the fuck up mentally.
If you can't take it you shouldn't dish it.