This society is not really a social one.

[theeindiee]

Okay.... I started debating a couple people about this in the chatbox, but I'm experiencing lag and sentence retardation because it wants to reload in the middle of my fucking sentence... so... deep breath... calming down.... here's what I was trying to say.

People need to be shown the value of compassion over the value of the dollar. They need to be shown the value of fulfilling your life goals, rather than organizing them into nice neat litlle monotonous duties. I believe that the only reason we value society being the way it is is because we've been completely sold it by everything and everyone around us since our birth. We've painted ourselves out of nature, or above it, or something. We think that we cannot survive and lead a fulfilling life without some sort of entity to govern over us and keep all of our days in order, with nice little labels and rituals that we repeat over and over again, like it's God's mantra.

In order to bring us down from our fucking high that thinking about how great society is has given us, specifically our modern society that has evolved within the past millenium, we need to look at some of the things we do to survive, and we need to ask ourselves "Would I be doing this if there was no such thing at monday at 7am?"

Is there such thing as monday at 7am? Think about it... who says it's monday at 7am? Would you know that if you were stranded in the woods for a year? Would you care where the hell you were at monday at 7am if the calendar and the clock and the radio and your neighbor and the television weren't constantly pummelling you with the fact that monday at seven am is coming soon? Will you ever truly be free if you're always thinking about monday at 7am, and where you gotta be at monday at 7am, and what you have to do to prepare for monday at 7am?

My point is.... our value systems. What do we value? We value conceptual systems of existence that are not actually in existence at all, and yet we're enslaved by them... because we're afraid of death. Simple as that. We don't consciously tell ourselves "Oh my god I'm gunna die. This is why I need to be somewhere at sunrise."

but thats's our motivation, nonetheless...whether we are conscious of it or not. Our motivation is death, yet we are saying we are social and doing what we need to do to LIVE... but in the same aspect, we value these non existent conceptual systems MORE than we value preserving human life. The majority of humans (I doubt members on the board here would do this, because we are hopefully of expanded consciousness) horde what they have, and they do not share with others outside of their selfish circle... even if someone desperate for food and shelter comes and says "I have my services to offer you, but I cannot give you any monetary compensation.", unless that person somehow directly or indirectly affects their cashflow (yet another conceptual system that has no real existence other than its trumpeted value) in an upward way, they will turn that person out onto the streets. That person could clean house and make an immaculate living space for a whole family, saving them hours and hours of work, andf gigving them much more leisure time...but it wouldn't matter, because they don't have a job that is contributing the accepted currency of the time.

I tried for bout a year to find a group or a family who would accept my labour for their household as payment for food and shelter, and I could not even find a hippie commune that was not in it for profit. If you didn't contribute to their profit-making endeavors, they weren't interested.

This is why we are not really social anymore. We are, by nature, social and caring... and we would not leave someone behind who didn't completely deserve it, and even then I think most of us would support the leeches... because they are life, and we naturally value life.

But these conceptual systems that we've locked ourselves are not compatible with our nature. They force us to do things against our will. They force us to ignore things we wouldn't normally ignore. They force us to focus all of our energy on meaninglessness and shallow temporary pleasure. They force us to become out of sync with our instincts and our true heritage as beings of this Earth, and that is what is causing all the disease and mental dysfunction and criminal behavior and perversion of our society. We are a society, no matter how we choose to be one. It's in our nature... but there ARE better ways, and we are not sure what those ways are, but we can sense them if we dig deep enough into our psyche.

I understand the massive behemoth of an adversary that we are up against. I'm in no way claiming to have solved any of societies problems, and I understand that many people will think that I am just complaining because I am unhappy with the way my life has turned out. They will use me as a subject for their comfort in denying responsibility for any of society's woes... but this is exactly how this decaying system is now choosing to perpetuate itself. We don't think we ARE responsible, as long as this fake version of society that has been built around us allows us our small bastions of comfort. We think that means we are doing what we are supposed to be doing, because we are momentarily at ease.

YES, I AM unhappy with my life. I am unhappy that I cannot do what I love to do and get by. I am unhappy that there is no adventure anymore (back before this mechanized behemoth known as the global economy, people actually took pride and pleasure in the adventure and the challenge of gathering and preparing their food and shelter... and they were so proud of it, that they passed their proud knowledge down from generation to generation, so that their sons and daughters and grandsons and granddaughters and on and on could feel the same pride as they did in their survival). I am unhappy at the choices that society has given me. Either make money or die. Either love money, or be miserable tolerating money.
Either have, or have not. Either follow the clock and the calendar you hate, or get fired from the job you hate making the money you hate, because money equals life in this fake plastic society. Because life is in fear of death in this fake plastic society. Because your fake mask of an ego is the most important thing in this fake plastic society. Because....

Everything is just so fake, and I am having trouble conforming to it anymore, because my mind now is so much farther advanced than the concepts of time, money, and death... that all I have is right now. I don't have the time to save money for a future that doesn't exist. How can I save something that is an intangible concept, for another intangible concept that will never happen because it is impossible for the future to happen now?

We're enslaved by systems revolving around intangible concepts. That may have worked at one stage of the ever evolving now, but now we're at a different stage, which requires an evolution of thought. If we never recognize now, we will never truly be living. If you live for death, you are already dead.

I ecourage debate about this, because I know sometimes I get so caught up in a vision, that I can't express the words enough in order for people to understand the vision. If I was telepathic, you could see exactly what I mean... but I'm not very good with words. Maybe some responses will spurr my literary side, and I will be able to better excpress my exact concepts to you. These concepts are very real, though.

Like compassion. It's the key to everything I am talking about. Compassion should be valued over all else. I respect the teachings of Jesus for that... the fact that he was trying to teach infinite compassion... because it is attainable, and many people are waking up and realizing exactly that message which seems to have been lost from the teachings of the masters.

I get tired of speaking. I don't talk well and I don't talk much, but I hope what I do say has some value, because I feel that each word should have as much meaning as you can muster, especially if those words are limited or suppressed.

Thanks, and I look forward to your responses.

[mojo]

OK, nice post and i think i agree with some of what your saying. But a couple of points that i do think are debateable. :)



Is there such thing as monday at 7am? Think about it... who says it's monday at 7am? Would you know that if you were stranded in the woods for a year? Would you care where the hell you were at monday at 7am if the calendar and the clock and the radio and your neighbor and the television weren't constantly pummelling you with the fact that monday at seven am is coming soon? Will you ever truly be free if you're always thinking about monday at 7am, and where you gotta be at monday at 7am, and what you have to do to prepare for monday at 7am?


I think if you were stranded in the woods for a year you would probably have a better grasp on time than we do now. In fact time, broken down into different periods other than minutes/hours etc would be paramount to your ability to survive.
what time do the deer come to drink at the waterhole, when do the mushrooms sprout, how long have i got to store provisions when the ice starts to thicken on the water, and so on.
Even as hunter/gatherers, before the advent of "civilization" time was a very important concept for Homo Sapiens and may in fact be one of the things that meant that we survived above other hominids imho.
So my point is, even if you were not thinking of where you have to be at 7am on a monday you would still feel the need to place yourself somewhere at some given point in time in order to survive.


My point is.... our value systems. What do we value? We value conceptual systems of existence that are not actually in existence at all, and yet we're enslaved by them... because we're afraid of death. Simple as that. We don't consciously tell ourselves "Oh my god I'm gunna die. This is why I need to be somewhere at sunrise."


I'm not sure that "we" (society) do fear death, many would i'm sure but i don't think it's an over riding obsession. I think the biggest single motivation for perhaps 90% of the population is "belonging".


This is why we are not really social anymore. We are, by nature, social and caring... and we would not leave someone behind who didn't completely deserve it, and even then I think most of us would support the leeches... because they are life, and we naturally value life.

Again i think this concept of being social and caring is not really a base instinct. An injured member of the tribe would just as likely have been left to fend for himself if he no longer was able to provide for the tribe in some way.
There is evidence that the social aspect of our society only really came to any sort of prominence when we became sedentary, thanks to agriculture and domestication of animals.


YES, I AM unhappy with my life. I am unhappy that I cannot do what I love to do and get by.


I also felt this way for a long time, roughly from the age of 15 to 30. I wanted to do anything other than the job i was doing. Having to pay bills, pay rent, buy a car, groceries etc etc. Man, i could have just taken off into the bush with me and the dog and do whatever i wanted too. I doubt very much though if id be alive today if i had. And when it came down to it in the long run i guess i like life, both good and bad experiences too much to throw it away because i cant get my own way. I dont mean that as a criticism of you at all, thats just my purely personal take on it.
There's a pretty good reason why life expectancies were so low, just a hundred years or so a go.


I don't have the time to save money for a future that doesn't exist. How can I save something that is an intangible concept, for another intangible concept that will never happen because it is impossible for the future to happen now?


Well, thats a conundrum that i did understand before i had kids. haha.
Now my motivation is to give them an opportunity in life to be able to do the things that they would most like to do, to be able to chase and catch their dreams.
Perhaps that will end up being the thing i most want to get out of my life, those motivations i had from 15 to 30 somehow morphed into a dream that i was able to shape in my kids.

In the end i think our motivation, our dreams and hopes continually evolve, i don't think society shaped the way my priorities changed, i think its a much more basic instinct than that, as i believe society is really only a reasonably young force in the overall scheme of things.

Time as a concept as i said earlier has always been an instinct within our psyche, and unless we evolve to the point of immortality probably always will be a motivating factor in our daily existence.

As far as the current society mores and values are concerned however i believe that they will be fluid and continue to evolve and change particularly as technology advances.

Consider the difficulty a galactic empire would have managing its population if it held onto the same societal principles that we hold now.

Not only do we evolve physically but also emotionally and socially.

I think i metioned earlier that my utopian ideal would be an anarchistic society but we haved moved so far beyond that point now that i don't believe it would ever be possible unless there was a sudden tremendous decrease in the world population within a short period of time.

haha, well that made me think, i have headache now. :D
I hope i understood your point. Like i said i do agree with some of what you are saying but i don't believe there's anyway of changing the way "we" (society) interact and live without there being a sudden and major shift either population wise or technologically.
If faster than light travel became possible tomorrow or 3/4 of the population disappeared maybe.

mojo

[Yo Mama]

As I was saying in the truncated version of this discussion, society has always been flawed. In most ways, the most fundamental ways, we're better off now than our ancestors at any other point in history. We don't have wild animals eating us or our children, our life spans are now double what they were in the dim long ago, we don't die of childhood diseases that can be prevented by vaccination (with certain exceptions). What appears drudgery to you now, is not anywhere near as onerous or hard as the work of our early pioneer ancestors (in America, that is). I just got finished reading Little House on the Prairie to my daughter, the whole series. I read it as a kid, but it had a new, deeper effect on me as an adult, realizing how hard life was when we had to grow our own food. If the grasshoppers or hail came, then we could starve. Grass fires, plagues, bandits, indentured servitude, many diseases, these don't have much power over us in the Western world of civilization any more.

And the price of this is having to work to be a member of the society providing these bonuses.

Think of how it was for the serfs in feudal Europe. Think of how it was for African slaves in the South. Think of what it was like when the Norsemen went a-viking, and the time of the black death.

There is still shit in the world, but those of us in the west, in this generation, have not had to contend with a real war, or the Inquisition, or pirates, or any of the things that have plagued mankind since the beginning.

I'm not saying society's perfect, but we've come a very long way from our tribal roots, through the blood and gore of the bronze and iron ages, and arrived here at the threshold of technological salvation of us from our own folly.

Things do need to change. I agree with that. But the thing is, they are changing. For every wrong that is done in the world, someone sees it and it gets put on the internet. Collectively we're raising our consciousness.

People always look at "before" as if it was some golden time, when it wasn't. No more so than it is a golden time now. There's always bullshit in the world, and there's always a price to pay for being a member of society. You have to find the rules, find the boundaries, and make a way for yourself within the structure of the society, or move to another one.

When I was young, I used to get frantic about the state of the world, and how I thought we were going to blow ourselves up and all that stuff. I finally burned it out of me when I was on the streets in SF in the early 90's. Now that I'm older and have kids, I don't let it get to me the way it used to, for that way lies madness.

There are things you can fight, and things you can't. You have to pick your battles, and you also have to be sure to pick something that lies within your power to change. Small changes by individuals over time make big changes to a society over time.

[Martian Exile]

I just want to be a neanderthal and eat mastodons.

[theeindiee]

Well... my main point here.... and I know I use the idea of absolute dissolution of society a lot to illustrate some of what I am saying... but my real point in all of this is that THIS version of society that we have now is preventing us (meaning the general population...especially in America) from becoming more compassionate towards others, and it's preventing us from being able to evolve mentally AND physically. They want us to implant ourselves with chips and stuff and become dependent on machines and software, and every future tech show I see nowadays is pushing that agenda... and it's just going to further separate us from our roots, further corrupt our thoughts and actions, further narrow us into this small very shallow view of reality, where you are imperfect and you need upgrades because you do not look or act like everyone else... and those that do not want to conform to that agenda will have no place to go because all the forests will be destroyed, thanks to this explosion in population, due to lands being destroyed, people being forced into tighter and tighter spaces, the media pumping them full of sexual subliminals and this emphasis on sex and sex appeal, and the people who follow the agenda, their viewpoint will continually be restricted and restricted by the media, the government, and this technology that everyone thinks is so great that we're absolutely no question about it chaining our minds and our bodies without any thought as to what the consequences are...

I can just see when the new wave of mental cosmetic implants comes along. Someone wants to be more outgoing and less shy will get a personality upgrade. Someone who has schizophrenia will get some sort of neural inhibiter chip to normalize the brain impulses to a managable level. Someone will want to enjoy something that their husband enjoys, so they get memory implants of them enjoying baseball with their father as a kid...

Will people question this technology as our society moves forward in the direction we're in now? No! Maybe right now, certain people are wondering whether brain modification is a good idea or not, and they have been allowed a voice because the technology isn't that advanced yet (for all we know, at least)... but just look at how many people just can't live without cosmetic surgery already! Offer people a way to "improve" themselves, while subliminally warping the mass consciousness of society so that enough pressure is put on the individual to feel that they are not good or worthy enough and need to some operation or some pill or some implant or some product to make them better and more accepted.

Just look at how we treat the mentally challenged and the "insane". They have no voice to defend themselves, and yet our society openly accepts that harassing these individuals and viewing them as "not right" is justified... and to me, it stinks of Nazi-ism. This whole American society (this is the main thing I am rally focusing on here) just REEKS of subtle Nazi influence... and there's absolute PROOF that this is what it really is! The championing of Darwin's "survival of the fittest" ideals, the preoccupation with perfection, the shunning of "genetically undesireable" people from participating in society... this is Neo-Nazi America we are living in... and it is evident by the allowance of Nazi-ism to even still exist! We don't condone terrorism, yet we're still allowing hate groups such as the KKK and Neo-Nazis to spread their obviously hateful message across our country. The guise is "freedom of speech"... but why oh why is a KKK meeting allowed to take place on the steps of a city hall building and these hate mongers allowed by the people to march in the streets, when activists and political dissidents are confined to free speech zones, and riot cops are coming in and basically beating these protesters away, when they are trying to promote peace and truth....

and yet everyone is just supposed to tolerate hate-speech and neo nazi-ism because we're still buying the illusion that this country is still about "ftreedom of speech"?

I see the tolerance of hate groups, I see the perversion of the youth by the media turning everyone into mindless sex and baby (battery?) producing consumer zombies, I see the subtle yet heavy influence the media and the government are pushing of being perfect, being free of odor, being free of acne, being free of bad teeth, being hip and sexy and accepted. I see unchecked hatred towards anything other than beautiful healthy social successful people. I see the close-mindedness of the majotrity of the population. I see the abuse of power that's being ignored. I see war and intolerance being accepted as perfectly normal and okay. I see people in this complete fog, with only a small strip of view, and the only thing filling that view is the desire implanted in them by outside sources to make their whole lives about pursuing the "American Dream", which is nothing more than materialism and greed and capitalism and social darwinism... and it's not by some chance coincidence that this is happening. It's being guided into this perversion and this pre0occupation... and a BIG portion of the problem lies within the systems of currency. Once you substitute the value of goods and services with a fake value attributed to some little metal charm or piece of paper that has no real value, and once you make the population believe that that currency is the only thing that's valuable, everything else loses meaning and the real value that it actually still has... and our energy is being channeled away from our actions and the fruits of our actions into this occultic kind of symbolic amulet...which is like this giant occult kind of ritual, it seems to create a minimum input-maximum output kind of situation, where we as a whole are now being USED as batteries.

Read the first part of Bill Cooper's "Behold A Pale Horse". It's a paper, entitled Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars... and it outlines the EXACT purpose of the economic structure and currency.

This is where society is heading, and it is frightening me because there is zero resistance to it here in America.... and seemingly abroad.... and if you read Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars... if you're not into Bill Cooper, doesn't matter. This is the one thing he was absolutely right about, and all you need to do is read the article in the first chapter to understand how it works. The economy, the media, currency, the government.... it is a giant machine, designed to grow, maintain, and keep humans as living batteries.


I URGE everyone to read Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars. Here, I'll even give you a link to a copy of it online. Take the time to really read and understand what you are reading, because it outlines exactly why we are batteries, and makes a very good comparison with the operations of circuit boards and such... and it's pretty plain to see what I mean about exactly why this society we're in is so dangerous if we let it continue the way it is going... because batteries are disposable:

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/sw4qw/

Cough cough.... sounds a bit like a certain movie we've all seen.

[skunk]

I'd have to agree with your main premise Indie. Our society is a control mechanism to help a select few prosper while the majority of us suffer (ala rich get richer, poor get poorer mentality).

If we really were a 'social' society, you'd think we'd help the poor, sick, and hungry out. But no, we don't in general. We're selfish assholes.

[theeindiee]

I'd like to say it wasn't our fault... but that would be feeding the monster that made this because it takes responsibility off us and gives it to some higher demigod.

We're the ones who choose to buy into it, and let it infect and take over our thought processes.

I'll admit, though, it's mighty hard to choose anything when you're told what to do and what to think since the time of your birth.

This is a heavy subject, because it literally requires a brain reset, where you undo all the indoctrination you've endured and accepted as truth since you were a baby. It IS possible, though. I think that it's happening at an ever-increasing rate. One day, I just woke up and looked around and went "Nuh uh. This is all crap."

I did have a catalyst, though. WTC7. That is what finally broke the pattern of conditioning. I must have watched the video like 1000 times over and over of that building falling, and I just couldn't accept anyone telling me that THAT was an accident. Not to mention, I was always puzzled by the media blackout of WTC7, cuz I remembered watching it fall on TV.

Anyway, WTC7 is another thread entirely... but yep, "society" as we know it, is just a giant machine using us as batteries, and it needs us to work for it, or else it throws us away.

Look at how we view homeless guys on the street. We, for the most part, think they are all derelict criminals that deserve to rot out in the street. However, I've met several homeless guys who just couldn't deal with society anymore, and they CHOSE to be homeless. There's this awesome hippie homeless guy that rides his bike around in my neighborhood sometimes, and he's like the nices guy you could ever meet. I asked him one day, cuz he stopped to say hello and we chatted a little bit, and I asked him "Why do you live like this? You seem intelligent, sane, and like an overall nice guy. Why in the world are you homeless?"

He said basically "I just didn't like doing the 9 to 5 anymore, and I had a bunch of bills I owed money on, and I had declared bankruptcy, and the government was coming to take all my stuff. So I took what I needed and abandoned it all."

Some homeless guys have a lot more guts than us. That's why I ALWAYS give them my change when I see one, because they could be there by choice, and they need help just like anybody else.