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nudespook
04-24-2008, 10:12 PM
Research Article
The Value of Believing in Free Will: Encouraging a Belief in Determinism Increases Cheating

Kathleen D. Vohs11Department of Marketing, Carlson School of Management, University of Minnesota, and and Jonathan W. Schooler22Department of Psychology, University of British Columbia1Department of Marketing, Carlson School of Management, University of Minnesota, and 2Department of Psychology, University of British Columbia

ABSTRACT—Does moral behavior draw on a belief in free will? Two experiments examined whether inducing participants to believe that human behavior is predetermined would encourage cheating. In Experiment 1, participants read either text that encouraged a belief in determinism (i.e., that portrayed behavior as the consequence of environmental and genetic factors) or neutral text. Exposure to the deterministic message increased cheating on a task in which participants could passively allow a flawed computer program to reveal answers to mathematical problems that they had been instructed to solve themselves. Moreover, increased cheating behavior was mediated by decreased belief in free will. In Experiment 2, participants who read deterministic statements cheated by overpaying themselves for performance on a cognitive task; participants who read statements endorsing free will did not. These findings suggest that the debate over free will has societal, as well as scientific and theoretical, implications.
Psychological Science, 19, 49-54, 2008

OK, so essentially the implications of this study suggest that being primed for determinism over free will can increase the degree of dishonest behaviour.

Bah!

Yo Mama
04-24-2008, 10:46 PM
Interesting. I wish my head wasn't so fuzzy, so I could think about this more.

nudespook
04-24-2008, 10:55 PM
The problem I see with such a study is that generally people assume free-will.

Take away that comfortable idea, and I suppose they may act in the expected way (what they think should happen). Thus, the experimental situation is basically suggesting to a participant to act in a certain way. Moreover, they are implicitly allowed to act without recourse due to lack of guilt and possible punishment (i.e., an artificial experiment).

And so they do. However, I'm sure if it was possible to get a group of pre-existing determinists, the outcome might be different.

Suppose it's a bit like taking bible 'morals' off a fundie. You know, they would instantly become psychopaths, as that's what they think it means for those without such 'morals for dummies'.

Yo Mama
04-24-2008, 10:57 PM
That's what my poor, snot-soaked brain was trying to think.

Same page, as always.

Now where are the fundies to give us grief? I almost miss WiseSheep. :lol:

1972
04-24-2008, 11:11 PM
I may sound like I am an ass but:

What is the point?
There is a tree, I ate the fruit, I can never go back to the way it was.
Or does this make no sense whatsoever?

I have freewill and morals (thanks mom!), so I am double fucked?

I mean, I WANT to cheat; I WANT to do the WRONG thing, I just can't, my mind will not let me. I want to be a criminal, just like everyone else . . .

There is a point here, I just do not know what it is. Seriously, please do not ban me, I have lots to say, and I am sometimes mundanely funny.

~B

nudespook
04-24-2008, 11:36 PM
Heh, why would anyone want to ban you?

You're certainly entitled to have whatever opinion you want. I'm not sure on the whole free-will ting.

I go about my daily life as if i have it, but I'm not sort of inextricably attached to the idea. Makes no real difference to me. So much research shows how we appear to actually make most decisions well under the level of conscious awareness.

So I actually think free-will is probably an illusion.

1972
04-24-2008, 11:48 PM
But to me, what you just said, translates to that everything is pre-determined? That nothing is a choice and we are programmed automatons?

So, when I get the URGE to write a poem or a story. I am just a marionette and my sub-conscious is pulling the strings?

You're maknig my head hurt.

And the ban thing was a joke.

I do have other hobbies.
(I think)

nudespook
04-25-2008, 12:03 AM
But to me, what you just said, translates to that everything is pre-determined? That nothing is a choice and we are programmed automatons?

So, when I get the URGE to write a poem or a story. I am just a marionette and my sub-conscious is pulling the strings?

You're maknig my head hurt.

Programmed by prior causes? Possibly.

And, yes, the subconscious. Possibly.

But the subconscious is made up of the automaton stuff you talk of (i.e, innate) and learned behaviours/tendencies (nurture), which interact with environmental stimuli to produce behavioural responses.

As I said, I'm not really attached to either idea. Lots of research shows how many decisions appear to be sorted before higher cognition kicks in. Maybe this covers all bases, maybe not.

However, I do act as if I have free will. At this point, I haven't been able to reach a state like Sue Blackmore (http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_8.html#blackmore).

1972
04-25-2008, 12:21 AM
Subjected will?

Or maybe:

Consequential will?

And I have to disagree with Ms. Blackmore. I want to believe her but I do not think it would be possible to completely shed the guise of free will from our sub-conscious.

~B

nudespook
04-25-2008, 12:28 AM
And I have to disagree with Ms. Blackmore. I want to believe her but I do not think it would be possible to completely shed the guise of free will from our sub-conscious.

~B

Yeah, I don't see how she can myself. I have an experience of free-will, and I can't seem to do much about it. So whether it be real or an illusion, no great shakes really.

Interesting questions to which I don't have answers. We just have a few findings which seem to be pointing in the direction of illusory free-will. And now a possible finding that says taking away the idea of free-will from some people might not be a good thing, or maybe it's just a methodological artifact.

1972
04-25-2008, 11:22 PM
Maybe we shouldn't have the answers.
Maybe we'll all go insane.

Or

Maybe we are insane because we do not have the answers.
Once we do, maybe we will not be insane anymore?

Thinking hurts sometimes.

Bitchkoma
04-26-2008, 02:51 AM
Now where are the fundies to give us grief?

/obligatory

God determines what you will do, unbeliever. Repent or burn in the fires of Tartarus!

Yo Mama
04-26-2008, 10:48 AM
No.

Now what, god? Bring it on. :P

1972
04-26-2008, 11:07 AM
Maybe G-d sent me to fuck with you instead.
Sort of like you own personal level of hell...