Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

[vckums]

Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday from diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said the family believes in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but she said they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently.

"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."

Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.

The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.

Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."

The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked if an ambulance should be sent.

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.

But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.

She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.

"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."

The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.

Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."

(This version corrects that the girl was the youngest child, not the oldest.)

[gunner]

I read this earlier and it made me wanna vomit. These people should be sterilized and not allowed to have anymore kids. If you want to have faith in god, fine, but dont let your kid die while you wait for "prayer" to heal her. Idiots.

[vckums]

I agree with ya.

[Yo Mama]

They'll probably get off anyway, because of freedom of religion.

Which I think is disgusting, personally.

[Iori Komei]

This is why we need to get rid of the idea of 'parents rights' in cases of the well being of children in law.

I say lock them up and take away their other kids.

[Bitchkoma]

This is why we need to get rid of the idea of 'parents rights' in cases of the well being of children in law.


Yeah, that will solve everything :roll:

Your social services are already over-bearing. You want to give them more authority?

[gunner]

Yeah, hell no Iori, we absolutely do not need to get rid of the idea of parents rights. I will raise my kids how I see fit, I dont need a village to help me raise them, especially not an over bearing government village. I know you are hell bent on your socialist agenda, but I have to say over my dead body is any damn government official going to tell me how to raise my kids. I am getting sick enough as it is of the damn government prying into my life, any more regulation and I could very well just blow up. Regulation over my kids, taking away my parental rights, and I sure as fuck will blow up.

I made my kids, I pay for my kids well being, I know my kids better then some government fuck wad, keep away from my kids. This incident is unfortunate, just like everytime some idiot shoots up a school it will be used to push the banning of guns, this will be used for the push of taking away of parents rights. No one is taking my rights as a parent away, I say what my kid does and does not do, if some government fucktard doesnt like it, I have two words for them FUCK YOU!!!!

I will spill blood, my own if necessary to prevent my rights as a parent being stripped away from me, it wont happen while I am breathing. In my opinion what should be limited is fucking CPS, that is a worthless piece of shit government organazation that has way too much authority. My wife the other night gave our daughter a smack on the butt, and left a little red mark. It doesnt take much of a smack to leave a red mark on a fair skinned persons ass. However my wife was devistated, she was so worried to take her to day care for fear of CPS being called and our child taken away. My wife is a juvenille probation officer she knows the laws, she deals with CPS on a daily basis. The fact that she has to worry about our child being taken away for a little whack on the butt is fucking wrong. I told her the same thing, anyone takes our kid away I will hunt them down and I will fucking kill them if they dont give my kids back. We are good parents, our kid is very well taken care of, and some fucking socialist mother fucker isnt taking my kids anywhere, anytime!!!

Sorry that was a long rant, but that whole limiting parents rights just fucking pisses me off more then I can put into words. It honestly makes me fighting fucking mad, leave my kids alone or your days are over.

[JiveTurkey]

This is why we need to get rid of the idea of 'parents rights' in cases of the well being of children in law.


Yeah, that will solve everything :roll:

Your social services are already over-bearing. You want to give them more authority?


I gotta go with the bitch on this one.


Social services in this country are already FAR too involved in our rights as parents.

Naturally, there are abuse cases where they NEED to step in.

Unfortunately, it's these abuse cases they tend to overlook in favor of taking kids away from a parent who pops their kid's ass for getting too close to a hot stove.



As much as some of us dislike religion......there IS and SHOULD be freedom of religion in this country.

If you take away one freedom, you might as well throw the rest out.


However, I do feel this should be HEAVILY looked into to make sure the "religion" angle isn't just an excuse.


Jasn

[Boondock]

you all know i hate religion and just about anything and everything to do with it....at the same time i hate when the gocv steps in...

as much as i think that parents should be free to do what they wish with their kids, there are few instances where that shit just don't cut it....i don't blame the parents though. i blame the religion. the brain washing bullshit they no doubt went through.


i remember about 10 years ago me and my x baby sat for her bosses toddler...he was about 3. they gave us the number of where they were gonna be and i asked them in an emergency like if the kid gets hurt, where should we take him.....as in what hospital.....they said don't give no meds and no hospital...just to call them.

they are 'christian scientists' and they don't belive in meds....i don't know exactly what a christian scientist is.....i just know i don't agree with their shit......sometimes a kid needs treatment....

i can't even fathom someone having that much faith

[Yo Mama]

If someone's kid dies because they didn't treat them medically, they should be charged with neglect and any other fucking book that can be thrown at them.

I've had CPS involved in my own custody case and they didn't do jack. Then I hear of women in my support group who've lost their kids over something beyond their control, and one woman's kids are being adopted by the foster family because the judge decided that since she was beaten by her ex she might get involved in another relationship like that one and the kids deserve better.

The system is fucking broken. Doesn't help those who need it and screws over those who don't.

[gunner]

I was talking to my wife about this the other night, and I said you know if you are religious great, pray. Pray if your kid is sick, and you are doing everything that medicine can do to treat your child, and all that is left is your faith, pray your asses off. But to deny your child treatment because prayer will take care of it, is just insanity.

You cant regulate everyone else off this case and other unfortunate cases that involve children being harmed. They need to go through our justice system (fucked up it is, but still the process) and have whatever punishment handed down for the law they broke. But as in my other rant, government idiots stay the fuck away from my kid, and do not tell me how to raise her.

CPS is a joke, my wife has some pretty good stories about how much CPS fucks stuff up. Then after CPS is done with them, it comes to the idiot judge she works for, power and control are more important to him them law. If CPS came to my door they would be greeted by my shotgun muzzle and a what the fuck do you want answer to the door.

[vckums]

If someone's kid dies because they didn't treat them medically, they should be charged with neglect and any other fucking book that can be thrown at them.

I second that GN.

[the titan]

But don't you know, prayer heals all.

[Yo Mama]

Heal this: :behead:

:P

[JiveTurkey]

If someone's kid dies because they didn't treat them medically, they should be charged with neglect and any other fucking book that can be thrown at them.

I've had CPS involved in my own custody case and they didn't do jack. Then I hear of women in my support group who've lost their kids over something beyond their control, and one woman's kids are being adopted by the foster family because the judge decided that since she was beaten by her ex she might get involved in another relationship like that one and the kids deserve better.

The system is fucking broken. Doesn't help those who need it and screws over those who don't.



You could always take the optimistic road on this one.



One less future x-tian



J

[Iori Komei]

Yeah, hell no Iori, we absolutely do not need to get rid of the idea of parents rights.

I did'nt mean completely, just in cases like this, so when kids are sick and the parents are religious idiots they can't claim parental rights to prevent the kid from getting medical treatment.

[vckums]

Update-

The three siblings of a girl who died of diabetes that went untreated as her parents prayed instead of taking her to a doctor have been removed from the home during an investigation, police said Friday.

The parents and social services experts agreed the move would be best for everyone, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said. The children are staying with other relatives, though they were not in danger, he said.

"There is no physical evidence of abuse or neglect," he said.

Madeline Neumann, 11, died Sunday the Weston home of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes as her parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, prayed for her to get better. Her mother said she never expected her daughter, whom she called Kara, to die.

The family believes in the Bible, which says healing comes from God, Leilani Neumann said.

The children removed from the home range in age from 13 to 16 and are expected to return to their parents once an investigation of the girl's death wraps up, Vergin said.

He would not specify where they are living, other than with another family member.

Vergin said his agency's final report will make no recommendations on possible charges against the parents, leaving that up to the district attorney.

"There is no intent. They didn't want their child to die. They thought what they were doing was the right thing," he said. "They believed up to the time she stopped breathing she was going to get better. They just thought it was a spiritual attack. They believed if they prayed enough she would get through it."

[Yo Mama]

I'm going to say something that would get me a U2U from an admin at ATS, to stop preaching. :lol:

If someone's religion allows them to let a child die rather than treat his or her illness, then the person is mentally ill -- religion is a delusion after all. In that case, the other children should be removed until the parents can show that they are no longer going to put their lives at risk by neglecting them.

If someone is mentally ill and their child dies because of something they did or didn't do, then that person has no business raising any children. Period.

Hell, if an animal control officer sees a yard full of dogs, one of which is starving and with untreated injuries, they remove all the dogs for their own best interests, and the parents of children should be held to a higher standard than a dog owner. Investigation or no, these people have no business being parents.

Gamble with your own lives, assholes. Pray to god to cure your cancer, or whatever goes wrong with you, and see how far it gets you. But your children deserve EVERY chance you can give them, including medical treatment.