View Full Version : The Bible: A deliberate fraud.
The Judeo - Christian Religion IS a conspiracy of the highest order imho.
Its aim, power over and control of the masses which it has achieved for the past 2000 years.
Consider this scenario, many thousands of years ago, lets pluck a number out of thin air, say between 12000bc and 8000bc. The last ice age was finishing.
Man has started moving from a nomadic hunter gatherer lifestyle and begun farming and domestication of animals, settling into small groups and building permanent structures, homes, granaries and monoliths. (http://www.sron.nl/~jheise/akkadian/prehistory.html)They had come down from the mountains these people after the last glacial melt because their normal food sources had moved to the now verdant plains and marshes.
These people may have been the ancestors of the Ubaidian's (http://archaeology.about.com/od/uterms/g/ubaid.htm) or perhaps tribes from the Caucasus region, maybe even from near Mt Ararat. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus)
They discovered that they no longer needed to follow the herds for food, the land was now lush and green and the herds didnt need to migrate as far. They also discovered that the animals ate certain plants, plants that they were able to grow by collecting the pollen and seeds. They captured some animals and fed them from the grains they grew. They were also able to eat the grains and fruits and berry's that now grew in abundance around their settlements.
A few generations passed and one of the elders of these people remembered the tales of the hard times in the mountains that had been passed down by word of mouth, the lack of food, the cold, on a clear day you could still see the mountains that were their former home in the distance, majestically rising above the plains, the sun rising above them in the morning caused them to shimmer and glow.
Surely the mountain was where the gods lived and they had shown their children a way to a better life than before. To a paradise were everything they needed was supplied.
The elder told his people that they must give thanks to the Gods in the mountains for all that they had been given and so they began building monuments to the Gods. Is it any wonder that many of these early monuments resembled the mountains from whence they'd come.
And in a few thousand years to come these monuments would be as great an achievement as any we have ever made, the Pyramids.
And so the greatest of their Gods were the Gods that lived in the mountains because that was where the sun was born each day rising between the mountains peaks, but now they noticed that other Gods helped them or hurt them in their daily existence. They saw the plants grow at certain times of the year when the sun was at a certain point in the sky. They saw that animals gave birth at certain times. Surely the God that gave birth to the animals and plants that kept them alive was a Mother Goddess.
Soon they had gods and demons for all that happened around them, a fire raged across the plains and destroyed everything in its path, this must have been caused by a very angry God, why is this God angry they thought, what is it that causes us to anger it they thought, maybe the God is hungry, so they started sacrificing an animal to the fire god to appease his hunger. Perhaps, they thought, we need to make sacrifices for all the gods to keep them happy, and so they did. They noticed when something died it dissolved back into the Earth and so they thought there must be a world beneath their feet where the dead went. The Underworld. (http://www.bibleorigins.net/hellsorigins.html)
Many thousands of years passed and the people prospered, their population grew and their technology advanced, each new thing they discovered was because the Gods were pleased with them.
Soon they had built cities and temples to the gods, the people were very busy, tending the land, fishing and building that they didn't have time anymore to devote to their Gods so they placed the power of keeping the Gods appeased in the hands of their elders. (http://www.dl.ket.org/humanities/connections/class/ancient/mesopreligion.htm)
For many years life was good and the people believed it was because the elders had kept the Gods appeased, the elders now called themselves priests and priestesses.
Now the priests had become accustomed to being venerated by the people, they didnt need to work the fields or tend the animals or carry water from the wells, this was all done for them so that they could commune with the gods.
Suddenly anytime that their role was questioned they became fearful that their life of ease and luxury would be taken from them.
So now they instilled fear in the people anytime something bad happened, the Gods have told us they are angry because you have not given enough gold or food to the temple or shown us enough respect.
Fast forward another thousand years or so and now the elite, the priests control everything but to appease the people, Kings and Queens are given reign but those that dare to question the priests don't last long.
Now writing has been discovered (http://www.bandoli.no/sumerianlegacy.htm) and the priests have scribes write down all the knowledge of the Gods, the story of creation and the birth of man. These story's are already thousands of years old and have always been passed down by word of mouth, changing slightly over time but the basic premise is still the same.
The Gods came from the mountains before but now they came from "above" in the sky where the sun is born. There are not as many Gods either anymore, many of the older gods have been forgotten and the other gods have taken on those responsibilities.
Now when a king or queen or high priest dies they are buried in mountains (ziggurats and pyramids) so that they can ascend to live with the gods instead of having to descend into the
Underworld.
These story's and myth's are passed on from one culture to the next as trade expands across the land and peoples of different cultures begin to mix with each other. Some assimilate these gods because those other people are much stronger and more powerful therefore their gods must also be stronger and more powerful.
Sumer, Akkad, Babylonia and Egypt rise and fall. Their Gods are all related to the first gods from that first tribe that came down from the mountains. But now the priests are battling for power as wars ravage the lands, the power base's continually shift and change and the priests realise that the people are growing wary of their faith in the gods. There are too many Gods for the people to worship and it weakens their power.
They decide that their must only be one God for the people to worship, an all powerful god who is battling the powers of darkness, the people are taken with this new god because they can see his fight of good over evil each day and their lives are hard and the promise of an afterlife fills them with hope.
These priests hide in the shadows and pull the strings, a prophet is needed to incite the people to rise up against the invaders so that their power is not taken away.
A son of God is needed to perform miracles to entrench the peoples faith in the new god, there is a story they remember from long ago from the egyptians of just such a man and so they relate this story once again and of his virgin mother, (http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egypt-bible-similarities.html) also the story of a great flood which is also from long ago, from Sumer and Babylonia, and many other story's as well.
And so the birth of the greatest fraud in mankinds history is born.
Then again this might all just be a story of a vivid imagination? Is it any more harder to believe this story than the story that is preached from pulpits around the world each day?
Related links.
Epic of Atrahasis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrahasis)
Tablet III of the Atrahasis Epic contains the flood story. This is the part that was adapted in the Epic of Gilgamesh, tablet XI. Tablet III of Atrahasis tells how the god Enki warns the hero Atrahasis ("Extremely Wise") of Shuruppak, speaking through a reed wall (suggestive of an oracle) to dismantle his house (perhaps to provide a construction site) and build a boat to escape the flood planned by the god Enlil to destroy mankind. The boat is to have a roof "like Apsu" (a fresh water marsh next to the temple of Enki), upper and lower decks, and to be sealed with bitumen. Atrahasis boards the boat with his family and animals and seals the door. The storm and flood begin.
The 18th century BCE Akkadian Atra-Hasis epic, named after its human hero, contains both a creation myth and a flood account, and is one of three surviving Babylonian flood stories. The oldest known copy of the epic of Atrahasis can be dated by colophon (scribal identification) to the reign of Hammurabi's great-grandson, Ammi-Saduqa (1646–1626 BCE), but various Old Babylonian fragments exist; it continued to be copied into the first millennium. The Atrahasis story also exists in a later fragmentary Assyrian version, the first one having been rediscovered in the library of Ashurbanipal, but because of the fragmentary condition of the tablets and ambiguous words, translations had been uncertain.
Ziusudra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziusudra)
Flood myths with many similarities to the Sumerian story appear widely in subsequent Ancient Near Eastern mythologies: including the Atrahasis myth, the Utnapishtim episode in the Epic of Gilgamesh, and the biblical Noah story.
Deities (or a deity) create the animals and human beings, but people anger the god(s), so they decide to wipe out the world with a flood. A divine being warns one pious person of the impending flood and tells him to build a very large boat, and with it he preserves the animals and mankind from extinction. In the end the god(s) reward him for his actions.
Noahs Ark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah%27s_Ark)
The majority of modern Biblical scholars accept the thesis that the Biblical flood story is linked to a cycle of Assyro-Babylonian mythology with which it shares many features. The Mesopotamian flood-myth had a very long currency—the last known retelling dates from the 3rd century BC. A substantial number of the original Sumerian, Akkadian and Assyrian texts, written in cuneiform, have been recovered by archaeologists, but the task of recovering more tablets continues, as does the translation of extant tablets
Garden of Eden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden)
The origin of the term "Eden", which in Hebrew means "delight", may lie with the Akkadian word edinu, which itself derives from the Sumerian term E.DIN. The Sumerian term means steppe, plain, desert or wilderness, so the connection between the words may be coincidental. This word is known to have been used by the Sumerians to refer to the arid lands west of the Euphrates.
Tree of Knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Knowledge_of_Good_and_Evil)
Similar trees appear in other religions. In the closest, most relevant comparison, the iconic image of the tree guarded by the Serpent appears on Sumerian seals;
Sumerian Mythology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_mythology)
Many stories in Sumerian religion appear similar to stories in other Middle-Eastern religions. For example, the Biblical account of the creation of man as well as Noah's flood resemble the Sumerian tales very closely, though the Sumerian myths were written many centuries earlier than the Tanakh. Gods and Goddesses from Sumer have distinctly similar representations in the religions of the Akkadians, Caananites, and others. A number of stories and deities have Greek parallels as well; for example, it has been argued by some that Inanna's descent into the underworld strikingly recalls (and predates) the story of Persephone.
Deluge Mythology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_%28mythology%29)
Was Tutankhamen really Jesus? (http://www.domainofman.com/ankhemmaat/joshua.html)
Sumerian and biblical similarity’s (http://members.tripod.com/historel/orient/03mesop.htm)
www.usbible.com/Creation (http://www.usbible.com/Creation/creation_myths.htm)
The word "Adam," as the proper name for the first man can be misleading. It comes from ha-adam in Hebrew, which translates to "the man"—Hebrew has no capital letters. The word adam is extracted from adamah, meaning country, earth, ground, husband, earth, or land. This suggests the context in Genesis 3:19, when God says "you are dust, and to dust you shall return." The name represents the material from which he was made. He wasn't an actual person.
Likewise, "Eve" is translated from the Hebrew chavvaòh, for lifegiver, as in "the mother of all living." Its root, Chaya, means "serpent" in Aramaic. Eve and serpent are taken to be synonymous.
The word, Eden, has been traced to the Sumerian language, meaning fertile land. To the Hebrews who later settled in the region, the word eden came to mean "delight" or "enjoyment." In a sense, it is a garden of delight.
In sum, the words Adam and Eve describe nobody in particular, and Eden describes no place in particular. It belongs with all the pagan mythologies of its type.
www.sron.nl (http://www.sron.nl/~jheise/akkadian/prehistory.html)
Angels (http://www.feedback.nildram.co.uk/richardebbs/essays/angels.htm)
The religion of the ancient Sumerians has left its mark on the entire middle east. Not only are its temples and ziggurats scattered about the region, but the literature, cosmogony and rituals influenced their neighbors to such an extent that we can see echoes of Sumer in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition today. (http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/sumer-faq.html)
www.domainofman.com (http://www.domainofman.com/ankhemmaat/joshua.html)
Special thanks to the God of Magic for firing my imagination, because ultimately this is just an interpretation of what i believe may have occured many thousands of years ago and may be flawed in many ways. ;)
:)
Steve-o
03-11-2008, 09:14 PM
Wow Mojo ....... great research bro :D ....... I truly don't believe in any religion . 8)
Religion isn't the enemy to me, rather the liars that perpetrate the fraud.
There is NO doubt that the bible is a composite of many of the Mesopotamian religious myths yet they still to this day declare it as the word of God.
Fallacy, pure and simple.
The greek mythology of Mount Olympus, Sth American mythology, Chinese mythology, vedic religions all have a similarity in their earliest forms. But none are so blatantly false as christianity's "holier than thou" attitude that theirs is the one true religion when it is obviously plagiarised from much older cultures.
"God" (pun intended) how i wish for some fundies to flame me, i have a ton more research up my sleeve to reveal.
Yo Mama
03-11-2008, 10:34 PM
Good stuff, mojo. Though I disagree that religion is harmless on any level.
Purist atheist I am, I think we need to be rid of it.
But everyone "knows how I feel" about this already. So I better STFU before I"m banned. :lol:
JiveTurkey
03-11-2008, 10:46 PM
Religion, IN THEORY, is great.
It's the corruption that spawns from it being put in practice that is the enemy.
Much like communism and socialism. Both, in theory, are great things.....it's just when you put them in practice and the corruption we humans are so susceptible to comes into play that they become bad.
Saying that religion needs to be done away with is a bit harsh and, honestly, not very smart.
The corruption that comes from religion is bad but the havoc that would come from abolishing it would be fucking TERRIBLE.
There are many many millions of religious folk who are some of the best people on the planet.
Religion needs to stay as long as some people need it..........HOWEVER..........it needs to be kept on a PERSONAL level.
One's religion is THEIRS and it needs to stay that way.
Jasn
Good stuff, mojo. Though I disagree that religion is harmless on any level.
Don't get me wrong i have no belief in a god or an afterlife but i do think that some religions have merit in their purest earliest forms.
Buddhism is one of those.
In fact i do believe that the very earliest religion that i described in my "imaginary" tale was a major reason that civilization was able to progress so rapidly. It was only after human greed insinuated itself into the natural reverance the people had for nature that it became a blight on humanity.
What gets me mad is that i believe that those in the highest echelons of power within the main christian religions KNOW that there whole religion is a fraud, but they continue to perpetrate the myth. Why?. Because they dont want to lose their power or prestige.
Yo Mama
03-12-2008, 12:05 AM
Jasn, I think people are good or bad as people without religion being involved. Religion is just a way to control the masses.
the most moral and decent people I know are atheists. Some of the most hypocritical and ruthless people I know profess to be "good Christians."
Good or bad has nothing to do with religion.
Anyway, if a person has to believe in god in order to behave themselves, then what does that say about that person?
A person is a truly good person whether they're religious or not. Some people are truly evil despite being religious.
I read something in the paper the other day that there are people in this very state, the most progressive in the US (according to us anyway LOL) that homeschool their kids to keep them from the "evils of evolution."
What is that doing for the kid? They won't be prepared to function in a world that runs on logic and reason, they won't be equipped to take a job in the sciences, or education. This idiotic belief that creationism is the only truth, despite ALL evidence and logic to the contrary, being forced on a kid that doesn't know any better, IMO is child abuse.
I think religion does far more harm than good in the world. There are plenty of secular organizations, such as Doctors without Borders, that do good works without having a dogma or an invisible friend driving them.
At this point in our evolutionary history, religion is unnecessary, much like a spiritual appendix, and in many places and ways is actually holding back progress.
So, no, I can't agree that religion is a force for good in the world, and I stick by my belief that we, as a species, would be far better off without it.
JiveTurkey
03-12-2008, 08:08 AM
So, no, I can't agree that religion is a force for good in the world, and I stick by my belief that we, as a species, would be far better off without it.
I could agree that we would all be better off without it.
However, since it IS here and has been for quite some time, eliminating it would be disastrous.
A severe and personal distaste for religion does not mean it should be done away with.
The religion doesn't determine the way a person behaves, the person determines how they will behave and religion is just another excuse.
J
I think as a crutch for people who need it it serves a purpose.
It makes my grandmother feel alot better about life without my
grandad if she believes he's trotting around in heaven knockin'
back a beer with st Peter and shootin' some pool. :D
I'd prefer it disappeared off the face of the planet but that aint
going to happen so....i guess you just deal with it.
I'd love for the sheep to understand the lies they've been fed for the past 2200 years though.
Yo Mama
03-13-2008, 08:14 PM
I'm not saying to eliminate it with a law or somesuch. We've all seen the disaster that causes -- people cling to it more because it's illegal.
I think that it is going to die a lingering death, of old age uselessness, as it's doing in Europe and Canada.
The US with its fundamentalist separatists, and the middle east are going to take longer is all.
But I can see a day, in the future, perhaps a couple hundred years from now, in which we as a species have moved on to rationality and left our superstitious racial childhood behind.
Euenics is the only way this race will ever move on to being a rational species.
Rational, logical humans are far outnumbered by the imbecilic.
That sounds bad......meh!
Yo Mama
03-13-2008, 09:28 PM
It's true though. The nanny state has bypassed natural selection for intelligence, sadly.
This is a continuation of my OP, where as that was a broad summary i will be following up with posts that are more in depth and that look at specific periods in an effort to nail down the time line.
I’ve chosen the region known as Anatolia to continue the story, the high plateau or around Lake Van and Mt Ararat. But it could easily be from an area in the Caucasus.
The people who had lived on the high central plateau of Anatolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolia), were cold and hungry, but above all else they were determined. They had survived many hardships and this latest disaster had them fleeing south. Food was scarce but the river they were following meant that there was some game about, just enough to keep them going. They were able to travel down into the fertile crescent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertile_crescent) through the Cilician gates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilician_Gates) which had previously been impassable until the glaciers began to retreat from the Taurus mountains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_Mountains).
Here they found a land of plenty as they followed the Euphrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphrates) or the Tigris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigris) down from the mountains into the foothills. Where they found themselves now was a paradise compared to the harsh land they had just left behind.
Here they may have stopped at a place now known as Gobekli Tepe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe) in the foothills of the Taurus mountains or perhaps at Catal Hoyuk further west or any other numerous sites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk).
Here they met other hunter gatherer tribes, because the people had led such a harsh existence they were used to fighting tooth and nail for every little thing and they had soon won a chunk of the land to hunt and forage in . The other tribes of hunter gatherer’s here were no match for the people and were soon assimilated into their culture.
The tales of their old life had been kept through ritual and word of mouth, the story’s of the mountains vomiting fire and belching ash, of their exodus from their land, of the animals that were fleeing before them in pairs and groups. Here where they settled for a time they began to build the beautiful shrines and temples, statuette’s and murals.
More to come. :D
Lexion
03-28-2008, 07:39 PM
Rarely do I engage in religious
topics...that being said...
"Satan is God's saviour. With-
out Satan, there is no need for
God". Anton LeVey.
Look the man up, and read his
work.
NOT the myths. His actual writing.
Fucking amazing.
Regards,
Lex
Grand
03-28-2008, 09:46 PM
The information you have given is really interesting. With any system it is often the leader that will make the best or worst of society. But Humans are flawed, and we will repeat our mistakes many times. Growing and learning from experience can be called wisdom, perhaps coupled with intelligence. And this is where I try to focus my attention, trying to learn of love and kindness, picking from various beliefs but not subscribing to any one.
Finding a balance between the extremes of pleasure and pain is my path, a contentment, a happiness, and acceptance of suffering. And then conveying this to others through compassion.
As Jasn noted, these things should often be kept personal due to the amount of harmful pride or power that could come otherwise, and not bloated to others. Selfless generosity is true and wholesome.
This information you are displaying gives me a different perspective on religion and those in charge.
The information you have given is really interesting. With any system it is often the leader that will make the best or worst of society. But Humans are flawed, and we will repeat our mistakes many times. Growing and learning from experience can be called wisdom, perhaps coupled with intelligence. And this is where I try to focus my attention, trying to learn of love and kindness, picking from various beliefs but not subscribing to any one.
Finding a balance between the extremes of pleasure and pain is my path, a contentment, a happiness, and acceptance of suffering. And then conveying this to others through compassion.
As Jasn noted, these things should often be kept personal due to the amount of harmful pride or power that could come otherwise, and not bloated to others. Selfless generosity is true and wholesome.
This information you are displaying gives me a different perspective on religion and those in charge.
As you c probably tell i'm an atheist but i do think that i am a spiritual person, religion and spirituality do not go hand in hand.
Apart from the conspiracy which i am discussing here the other huge fraud that religion perpetrates is that to be a good person or a spiritual person means that you have to believe in God. it's the biggest load of crap ever.
Grand
03-29-2008, 06:12 AM
I try to abstain personally from any labels in general.
The term "god" is so varied and widely used that it has therefore become the apex of many disputes.
Having to do with any subject, labeling without actually looking at the character behind a certain label occurs often. Labels are used by many to more easily define a concept which may be almost completely different to two different people's viewpoints.
And going back to the subject of this thread, these labels have been used to profit individuals. And with those individual's corruption, the label also is tainted with a similar social stigma.
Personally I use the term "god" rarely, but when I do it is to easily express what I am speaking about. Now, bear in mind that this word "god" in my opinion is synonymous with love, so I could just say "love", which I often do instead, since "god" has a social stigma against it.
It is unfortunate that corrupt individuals have taken labels and distorted them, leaving a tainted view on the original content. However, as previously expressed, I most often disregard labels and instead go for a word that is less tainted socially.
I hope that is comprehensible. I'm probably more tired than I think I am, lol.
Thanks,
Grand
Edit: So labels are the symbols of religion... hmm... of power and representation. And those who "own" them can always go back and point to the label and say, "See, this means good. And since we own it, we are good."
Personally I use the term "god" rarely, but when I do it is to easily express what I am speaking about. Now, bear in mind that this word "god" in my opinion is synonymous with love, so I could just say "love", which I often do instead, since "god" has a social stigma against it.
Your post made perfect sense.
One thing i will say in regard to this part of your post though.
You say that for you "God" is "synonymous with love". Most followers of all religions will also say this, what of those of us that do not believe in God.
Are we unable to love?
Is the concept of "love" an emotion that is linked to "God".
No, it is a human emotion, it's evolution can be intimately traced to an instinct bred of protection of the tribe.
"Love" meant that the Male or Female of the tribe would sacrifice themselves in order to save a child, or to save a female of child bearing age, or an older member of the tribe would sacrifice themselves for the good of the tribe, and so "Love " was born.
It was "love" for the tribe, for the survival of the tribe.
Imho.
Edit: So labels are the symbols of religion... hmm... of power and representation. And those who "own" them can always go back and point to the label and say, "See, this means good. And since we own it, we are good."
Yes.
great post btw, i can see that we might have some interesting discussions. :D
Grand
03-29-2008, 07:00 AM
God... hu... that could take up its own thread in itself.
But the application of the bible to control the masses was laid out understandably from your point of view. Although it is highly conflicting in the way many use the bible now and in the past; for Christians would quote the Old Testament, while Jesus Christ himself said that he had denounced a good deal of the old law, as quoted here in Matthew 5: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205;&version=31;. Although some sects and no doubt a good deal of individuals had figured the obvious.
Remember submission through fear, fear of the old law and fear of Revelations. Unfortunately a great deal of Christianity is a doomsayer cult so to speak, although Christians vary by sect and of course personal slant.
I find there is both great wisdom and great ignorance written in the bible. But such is the case in almost any subject, no?
Now I'd like to ask: Say someone has a certain wisdom they have discovered that has truly led them to greater happiness, and they wish to convey this wisdom. How would they try to do this, therefore trying to help others, without corrupting the original message?
Cheers,
Grand
Although it is highly conflicting in the way many use the bible now and in the past; for Christians would quote the Old Testament, while Jesus Christ himself said that he had denounced a good deal of the old law, as quoted here in Matthew 5: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205;&version=31;. Although some sects and no doubt a good deal of individuals had figured the obvious.
There is one flaw in my hypothesis which i'm willing to admit in the
absence of sufficient evidence.
I concede that there may very well have been a "Jesus Christ"
even though i tend to agree with Osmans theory.
However i do not believe that if Jesus Christ was an actual
historical figure that he was the son of god.
If he did exist i think he was an extremely charismatic speaker and
leader of people who taught some wonderful life lessons and
practised all that we believe to be morally and ethically good.
Similar in fact to many similar historical figures. Ghandi anyone.
Now I'd like to ask: Say someone has a certain wisdom they have discovered that has truly led them to greater happiness, and they wish to convey this wisdom. How would they try to do this, therefore trying to help others, without corrupting the original message?
Cheers,
Grand
Ghandi. Just as an example.
There have been many altruistic selfless and loving figures throughout history who been able to do exactly that without claiming godhood.
Sure, a lot of them have had faith and belief in god but i would submit that they would have been the same person no matter what.
There have also been many atheist and agnostics that have shared important wisdom and knowledge with mankind.
I have to go and help my daughter with her homework, but i can answer your question in much more depth later.
cheers mojo.
Boondock
04-16-2008, 12:43 PM
religion is a fucking plague on humanity and i wish it would vanish
skunk
04-16-2008, 12:54 PM
Is this the same thread from the other site? I really enjoyed reading it.
I agree with you. The bible is a rip off of many previous religions, although there is some truth in there, but not much.
Is this the same thread from the other site? I really enjoyed reading it.
I agree with you. The bible is a rip off of many previous religions, although there is some truth in there, but not much.
This is the original thread. My thread at the other site i posted after this one.
I have some more to add to it which is still only in draft form.
Martian Exile
04-17-2008, 06:28 AM
Since the dawn of time our ancestors have had some sort of metaphysical belief in a higher being, to the point that over the ages that notion has become hard wired in the farthest grottos of our brains. When fashion dictates a cynical response to metaphysical instinct, the subconscious mind directs instinct to manifest itself in other ways, creating phantom religion. In my opinion this is how the absurdity of political correctness came about.
More biblical inconsistancies?
Here's another interesting coincidence. Was the biblical story of Moses birth plagiarized from the earlier legend of Sargon.
Sargon the Great (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargon_of_Akkad)
My mother was a high priestess, my father I knew not. The brothers of my father loved the hills. My city is Azupiranu, which is situated on the banks of the Euphrates. My high priestess mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river which rose over me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water, took me as his son and reared me. Akki, the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener. While I was a gardener, Ishtar granted me her love, and for four and […] years I exercised kingship.[14] ”
The image of Sargon as a castaway set adrift on a river resembles the better-known birth narrative of Moses. Scholars such as Joseph Campbell and Otto Rank have compared the 7th century BC Sargon account with the obscure births of other heroic figures from history and mythology, including Karna, Oedipus, Paris, Telephus, Semiramis, Perseus, Romulus, Gilgamesh, Cyrus, Jesus, and others.[15]
More biblical similarities, a thousand years before Abraham! The bible seems to be no more than a conglomerate of many ancient mesopotamian myths and legends and perhaps even other influences from the east.
Ebla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebla)
Among Pettinato's controversial claims, he has also suggested that there was a change in the theophoric names shown in many of the tablets found in the archive from *El to *Yah, indicated in the example of the transition from Mika’el to Mikaya. This is considered by some to evidence an early use of the divine name Yah, a god who they believe later emerged as Yahweh (YHWH). Bottero, for example, has suggested that this shift may indicate the popular acceptance of the Akkadian God Ea, introduced from the Sargonid Empire which may have been transliterated into Eblaite as YH. This theory has not gained universal acceptance, however, and other scholars have insisted the sign in question is correctly transliterated IA.[6]
Many Old Testament Genesis names that have not been found in other Near Eastern languages do have similar forms in Eblaite (a-da-mu / Adam, h’à-wa / Eve, Jabal, Abarama/Abraham, Bilhah, Ishma-el, Isûra-el, Esau, Mika-el, Mikaya, Saul, David, etc.). Also found are many Biblical locations: for example Ashtaroth, Sinai, Jerusalem (Ye-ru-sa-lu-um), Hazor, Lachish, Gezer, Dor, Megiddo, Joppa, etc. Giovanni Pettinato has also claimed to find references to Sodom and Gomorrah.[7]
www.theology.edu (http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm)
And was Yahweh really not like the God that we have been led to believe he was, for it seems he had a consort. ;)
Besides the chief god at Ugarit there were also lesser gods, demons, and goddesses. The most important of these lesser gods were Baal (familiar to all readers of the Bible), Asherah (also familiar to readers of the Bible), Yam (the god of the sea) and Mot (the god of death). What is of great interest here is that Yam is the Hebrew word for sea and Mot is the Hebrew word for death! Is this because the Hebrews also adopted these Canaanite ideas as well? Most likely they did.
One of the most interesting of these lesser deities, Asherah, plays a very important role in the Old Testament. There she is called the wife of Baal; but she is also known as the consort of Yahweh! That is, among some Yahwists, Ahserah is Yahweh’s female counterpart! Inscriptions found at Kuntillet ‘Ajrud (dated between 850 and 750 BCE) say:
I bless you through Yahweh of Samaria,
and through his Asherah!
And at ‘El Qom (from the same period) this inscription:
Uriyahu, the king, has written this.
Blessed be Uriyahu through Yahweh,
and his enemies have been conquered
through Yahweh’s Asherah.
That Yahwists worshipped Asherah until the 3rd century before Christ is well known from the Elephantine Papyri. Thus, for many in ancient Israel, Yahweh, like Baal, had a consort. Although condemned by the prophets, this aspect of the popular religion of Israel was difficult to overcome and indeed among many was never overcome.
One of the most famous of the lesser deities at Ugarit was a chap named Dan’il. There is little doubt that this figure corresponds to the Biblical Daniel; while predating him by several centuries. This has led many Old Testament scholars to suppose that the Canonical prophet was modeled on him. His story is found in KTU 1.17 - 1.19.
Yo Mama
05-10-2008, 10:10 PM
Yes, I've always been interested in Asherah. Also known as Astaroth, Yahweh's wife (or so I understood it).
Up until Abraham, she was worshipped by Hebrews in special groves. It's interesting to note that one patriarchal mad man can shake up people's beliefs so much that all previously revered Hebrew gods were overthrown and cast out.
It's interesting to note that one patriarchal mad man can shake up people's beliefs so much that all previously revered Hebrew gods were overthrown and cast out.
It's the reasoning behind there desire to eliminate all the other Gods of their pantheon which intrigues me.
Was it a deliberate ploy that would allow them much easier control of the masses?
Was that just a coincidental side effect?
How long have they known the truth of their religions beginnings and why do they continue to deny the obvious parallels of much older religions?
Martian Exile
05-22-2008, 08:03 AM
I would say it was a coincidental side effect.
The scholars have known this all along. While I was studying with the Jesuits there was a kind of us and them mentality. The scholarly stuff was for us, the the simpleton literal stuff was for “them” This is not limited to the catholic church, but the entire “high church”. (Those churches that practice a litany during the Eucharist, as opposed to the “low churches” such as the Pentecost and baptist) What the scholars discus out of earshot of the masses is very different from what the masses would hear at the pulpit. Picture young “Grasshopper Martian” discussing the genesis of Judea Christian theology with his masters.
Young Grasshopper is in a room full of wing back chairs and thousands of moldy old books. We are smoking fine cigars provided by Grasshopper, who is the only one with an income, and drinking wine left over from the latest mass. Years in the future, Mojo Monkey is watching the discussion through a crystal ball.
When the texts (including the ones removed from the canon) are put in the order they were written, in the original language and original context, one sees that not only were there many gods, but that the text acknowledges that there were many gods. Enter a homeless wandering tribe looking for a land of its’ own. They make a social contract with one of the local “kitchen variety” gods. In return for becoming monotheist, and worshiping only him, the little local god would provide protection and a promised home. From that simple beginning morphed the egocentric belief that there is only one god, and all the others are the figment of the imagination of apostates.
When did the scholars know? Philo Judaeus of Alexandria discusses the changes of interpretation of the texts around 40 AD. The monks of Skellig Michael copied the works of the ancient pagan scholars around 500 AD. (Thomes Cahill 1995) In 1255 AD St. Thomas Aquinas pointed out in the Suma Contra Gentiles and Suma Theologica that the only way to understand Christian Theology (for the benefit of mission work) was to study the works of the ancient pagans and religions of the past. Scholars understand the march of time, fundies do not.
Thought i'd just post a bit more information here on the Ugarit texts and also a couple of wiki links regarding Baal and his legend/mythology.
Many similarities to Yahweh. Make up your own ,mind.
Ugarit texts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugarit)
Excavations have since revealed an important city that takes its place alongside Ur and Eridu as a cradle of urban culture, with a prehistory reaching back to ca. 6000 BC, perhaps because it was both a port and at the entrance of the inland trade route to the Euphrates and Tigris lands.
You can see clearly that Ugarit dates back to the very earliest times of "known civilization" and so also the religion of Ugarit, which obviously then pre-dates "Abrahamic" religion.
On excavation of the site, several deposits of cuneiform clay tablets were found, constituting a palace library, a temple library and -- apparently unique in the world at the time -- two private libraries; all dating from the last phase of Ugarit, around 1200 BC. The tablets found at this cosmopolitan center are written in four languages: Sumerian, Hurrian, Akkadian (the language of diplomacy at this time in the ancient Near East), and Ugaritic (of which nothing had been known before). No less than seven different scripts were in use at Ugarit: Egyptian and Luwian hieroglyphics, and Cypro-Minoan, Sumerian, Akkadian, Hurrian, and Ugaritic cuneiform
Link about Baal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal)
Link about the Baal legend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_cycle)
Infinite`Eternal`Forever
01-09-2010, 08:00 AM
Bullshit@the bible being a fraud. The bible is the truth. All the books say the same thing in the end. Now, mans interpretation of the bible is a lot different from what the bible actually says. You would probably need to learn Aramaic to have a correct understanding of the text. Certain words we read in English have a different meaning when translated into the bibles original context. I roll with the Bible, I roll with Jesus. It breaks down every single type of degenerate person you could meet in your life and what their actions ultimately lead to. PROVERBS = GREATEST WISDOM EVER!!!!!!!!
captainkiwi
01-09-2010, 02:20 PM
livewires are you a kiwi
Infinite`Eternal`Forever
01-09-2010, 06:18 PM
livewires are you a kiwi
Um...what?
anarch
01-10-2010, 03:26 PM
livewires are you a kiwi
???
The NZ at the end of his name should make that obvious.
anarch
01-10-2010, 03:32 PM
Bullshit@the bible being a fraud. The bible is the truth. All the books say the same thing in the end. Now, mans interpretation of the bible is a lot different from what the bible actually says. You would probably need to learn Aramaic to have a correct understanding of the text. Certain words we read in English have a different meaning when translated into the bibles original context. I roll with the Bible, I roll with Jesus. It breaks down every single type of degenerate person you could meet in your life and what their actions ultimately lead to. PROVERBS = GREATEST WISDOM EVER!!!!!!!!
I like proverbs. I also enjoy Ecclesiastes.
The old testament reads to me like somethig different than the new testament. The God that smites cities to salt and asks parents to kill their kids to prove their love...and insecure God? Then the New testament comes along and jesus trys to tell the world that we are all the children of God... so we kill him... Insecure humans...
I also like the omitted books of the bible,
THe gospel of judas, the gospel of thomas , gospel of mary,
I mean hell you got a dude that can bring people back to life...do you think he lacks the power to make all of his disciples literrate? But everyone would have there own take on the subject... not every view point could be allowed... So nicea happened. And we go the mainstream accepted books of today.
.....Then again I have also watched ZIETGIEST....
BUt I still like the message that we are all the children of god.
WE are.
Ra187
01-11-2010, 03:57 PM
Lately i have been doing a lot of reading on this subject...and all i have been getting out of it is that it truly is the Greatest STORY every told....
a few books left out of the original canon (http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/noncanon.html)
IMO...they had to leave books out to make it more believable and easier to brain wash people with.
some other texts from the era i found interesting (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlcodex.html)
if people could only see the damn truth to the matter is that established religions are nothing but money hoarding fucks but hey they were damn good at brainwashing all thos millions of people through out the ages so more power to them....
I do believe that there could be something else out there, a higher power. but do i believe a single god created this planet about 6000 years ago...hell no...maybe if you we all just turn the light bulbs on and be illuminated everything would be alright
Infinite`Eternal`Forever
01-12-2010, 04:34 AM
I like proverbs.
Yes, proverbs is epic. Here's my fav passage:
Proverbs 14:12 (King James Version)
12There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+14%3A12&version=KJV
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-20-2010, 09:57 AM
You know extreme iconocoasty bugs me just as much as extreme fundamentalism. They're just on different ends of fucked up on the spectrum.
But, it is darkly funny to watch them sermonize and blame each other for their bullshit that they were going to do anyway.
WhispersInTheDark
06-20-2010, 10:12 AM
Monotheism is a great way of life and my god is the best god.
Fuck, these mojo commandments have been around for a while... I never noticed the slate tablets before Watcher dug them up.
WhispersInTheDark
06-20-2010, 10:16 AM
Lo and behold, the L and the O be close together...
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-20-2010, 10:19 AM
?
If you're too fucking dense to figure out the word meant then you'll get no help from me.
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-20-2010, 10:20 AM
Lo and behold, the L and the O be close together...
LoL! Especially when you have big fingers and a small touch screen to work with.
LoL! Especially when you have big fingers and a small touch screen mind to work with.fixt™
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-20-2010, 10:27 AM
LoL! Keep telling yourself that. Not even partially concerned about what a fucktarded self-rightous troll with extreme delusions of relevance thinks of me.
I actually don't think anything at all about you. But the avatar seems fitting.
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-20-2010, 10:56 AM
Right. Then who typed your earlier response then? Or did you just conclude that without thought and are now admitting it? Which considering the charge is funny and telling as to who actually has the small mind.
Oh. My typing finger went off by itself. Sort of an electronic Tourette's.
MissA
06-20-2010, 11:02 AM
Right. Then who typed your earlier response then? Or did you just conclude that without thought and are now admitting it? Which considering the charge is funny and telling as to who actually has the small mind.
Watcher,
are you cheating on me? I thought I was the one you really wanted to argue with.
*pouts*
So, what are we talking about here? Do I need to go back and read it all to catch up?
Do I need to go back and read it all to catch up?
just the OP, the rest is wank.
One man's wank is another man's great erudition, I'll have you know.
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-20-2010, 11:08 AM
In the end it's all wank. Even the OP.
MissA
06-20-2010, 11:11 AM
Good morning, cute Monkey.
My personal take on the religious conspiracy would be pages upon pages. It actually starts with Julius Caesar, not Constantine. Maybe someday I'll pull a mojo and start a thread.
The Tanakh was just one more tribe telling their version of the same events. If you look at the Hebrew you can tell that there were multiple writers, multiple "accents", and some were conversions of possibly Aramaic showing an Afrocentric viewpoint.
My belief is that the events of the Bible, Gilgamesh, etc all happened but farther back than even these books describe and therefore it is people picking up the pieces of their oral tradition and trying to put them down to paper.
Good morning, cute Monkey.
:D
My belief is that the events of the Bible, Gilgamesh, etc all happened but farther back than even these books describe and therefore it is people picking up the pieces of their oral tradition and trying to put them down to paper.
thousands of years further back, maybe tens of thousands. ;)
you ought to check out the Ugarit scripts.
In the end it's all wank. Even the OP.
Well- there is that.
MissA
06-20-2010, 11:23 AM
:D
thousands of years further back, maybe tens of thousands. ;)
you ought to check out the Ugarit scripts.
Well, you know I'm with you on this one. I think it had to be at least 60K. But if you have figures older than that I'd love to talk about them.
But if you have figures older than that I'd love to talk about them.
it'll have to be later, it's past my bedtime.
check out the ugarit translations, particularly the Baal cycle.
Lexion
06-20-2010, 11:49 AM
it'll have to be later, it's past my bedtime.
check out the ugarit translations, particularly the Bi-cycle.
fixt
because it just clicked
Bullshit@the bible being a fraud. The bible is the truth. All the books say the same thing in the end.
Any facts to back up your statement?
NO.....didn't think so.
You do of course realise that 75% of the bible is plagiarized from mesopotamian and egyptian mythology.....fact.
Plagiarism and theft = Fraud.
Got it Yet?
MissA
06-20-2010, 10:35 PM
Any facts to back up your statement?
NO.....didn't think so.
You do of course realise that 75% of the bible is plagiarized from mesopotamian and egyptian mythology.....fact.
Plagiarism and theft = Fraud.
Got it Yet?
Not to throw another kink in--wait, yes, that's what I'm doing because I feel resentful and narky tonight...
BUT...Velikovsky believes that the reason that all of the ancient people had similar accounts with differences here and there is because of a collective cultural trauma-based amnesia.
What do you think of that, Mojo? Possible, yea or nay?
Note: I have no opinion as yet because my brain is fried due to this set of articles I am writing.
Not to throw another kink in--wait, yes, that's what I'm doing because I feel resentful and narky tonight...
BUT...Velikovsky believes that the reason that all of the ancient people had similar accounts with differences here and there is because of a collective cultural trauma-based amnesia.
What do you think of that, Mojo? Possible, yea or nay?
Note: I have no opinion as yet because my brain is fried due to this set of articles I am writing.
sure thats pretty much exactly what i believe.
all of the mythology that is common to various religions is based on an ancestral memory of a previous culture and its destruction in a catastrophic event.
my OP suggests that it was most likely a tribe that came down from anatolia or the caucasus after a volcanic eruption or earthquake at around 12000BC but they could as easily just be another link in the chain that reaches even further back in time.
Much of the Bible consists of historical accounts that have been verified by archaeology.
Cogburn
06-21-2010, 01:37 AM
I think it was KIWI that first brought Velikovsky to my attention sometime last year.
His theories were pretty sound at the time, but archeological evidence doesn't match his timeline.
MissA
06-21-2010, 01:40 AM
Doesn't match some of his timeline. He made the same mistake as a lot of other men by trying to do too much at one time. Makes it a little sloppy.
Much of the Bible consists of historical accounts that have been verified by archaeology.
which is why i said this.
all of the mythology that is common to various religions
but then actually reading whats written instead of jumping to conclusions isn't exactly your strong point is it.
The major commonalities and plagiarized portions of the bible are obvious to anyone with eyes and ears, for example the flood myth, which even the most devout religious scholars agree dates back to the gilgamesh epic or even further.
MissA
06-21-2010, 08:58 AM
Native Americans had a flood myth tho and they were cleeeeeeear on the other side of the world meaning that either the flood was global OR that the myth dates so far back that it touches the pangea OR that people traveled all the way to North America somewhere in this time frame.
Perhaps some peoples did not borrow from any tablet or epic on papyrus but had their own narratives as they scattered about because of the deluge.
The ridiculous premise here, that the Biblical narrative is 'a deliberate fraud' and is the result of 'plagiarism' betrays a less than sincere motive in assessing that opus. That's all I was saying. Even the Bible, itself, (especially in Genesis) acknowledges its own derivative nature. The Chaldean sources for the oral tradition are unapologetically and repeatedly cited in both that book and in Exodus.
Of course then there's the other theory- that the Bible is really just a message in a bottle.
http://www.mostlyposters.com/images/posters/fullsize/FP4377.jpg
The ridiculous premise here, that the Biblical narrative is 'a deliberate fraud' and is the result of 'plagiarism' betrays a less than sincere motive in assessing that opus. That's all I was saying. Even the Bible, itself, (especially in Genesis) acknowledges its own derivative nature. The Chaldean sources for the oral tradition are unapologetically and repeatedly cited in both that book and in Exodus.
its no more ridiculous than the bible being touted as the word of God.
there's more evidence of various mythology's being "stolen" and used to impress the populace into following the "one god" religion as a means of building a power base for elite 'priests and elders".
that adds up to fraud imho, and deliberate.
if its such a "ridiculous" premise then fuck off back to your borg thread and the realistic premises being thrown around there.
its no more ridiculous than the bible being touted as the word of God.Both equally ridiculous since there is no god to begin with. I'll stick with my message in a bottle theory.
Both equally ridiculous since there is no god to begin with. I'll stick with my message in a bottle theory.
good for you.
MissA
06-21-2010, 11:17 AM
its no more ridiculous than the bible being touted as the word of God.
there's more evidence of various mythology's being "stolen" and used to impress the populace into following the "one god" religion as a means of building a power base for elite 'priests and elders".
that adds up to fraud imho, and deliberate.
if its such a "ridiculous" premise then fuck off back to your borg thread and the realistic premises being thrown around there.
Sorry when you quoted that I happened to actually read it.
Nowhere in the Genesis accounts do the author(s) state that they received the information from any outside source or even imply it. I'd like to know where this supposedly is because I've read the Tanakh in both English and Hebrew and I don't recall it.
It is presented as though it were oral traditions being written down for posterity of their tribes, their people. Now, the fact that the habiru were scattered about and suddenly pulled together...it would make sense that we can infer that the stories were borrowed, but it is never implicitly said.
Their intentions we cannot truly know because it was written so long ago, however, considering the various stylistic subtleties throughout Genesis it is safe to assume that there were several different versions of the accounts that got all morphed together for some singular purpose: to create myth. They took what they knew: Ba'al worship, Aten, and destruction histories and morphed them together to create a foundation.
So, yes, plagiarism, but for a purpose. I hardly think they realized they would be creating one of the oldest lasting religions in the world.
Or maybe they did? ;)
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-21-2010, 11:18 AM
I'd say speaking speaking either absolute is ridiculous and more based on preconceptions and assumptive leaps then any possible "facts". Though the very argue illustrates *if you're paying attention* the subjectivity of so called "facts". Face it Mojo you are treating your subjective *and horribly biased* opinion as objective fact regardless of how much schmata reinforcement you have partaken in.
Sorry when you quoted that I happened to actually read it.
Nowhere in the Genesis accounts do the author(s) state that they received the information from any outside source or even imply it. I'd like to know where this supposedly is because I've read the Tanakh in both English and Hebrew and I don't recall it.
It is presented as though it were oral traditions being written down for posterity of their tribes, their people. Now, the fact that the habiru were scattered about and suddenly pulled together...it would make sense that we can infer that the stories were borrowed, but it is never implicitly said.
Their intentions we cannot truly know because it was written so long ago, however, considering the various stylistic subtleties throughout Genesis it is safe to assume that there were several different versions of the accounts that got all morphed together for some singular purpose: to create myth. They took what they knew: Ba'al worship, Aten, and destruction histories and morphed them together to create a foundation.
So, yes, plagiarism, but for a purpose. I hardly think they realized they would be creating one of the oldest lasting religions in the world.
Or maybe they did? ;)It's stated that Abram migrated from Chaldea along with his traditions. (His family were idol makers.) What else do you need? The entire meaning of Genesis is the extension and overcoming of Chaldean tradition. Missed that? Best read it again.
Face it Mojo you are treating your subjective *and horribly biased* opinion as objective fact regardless of how much schmata reinforcement you have partaken in.
no actually i included links within my OP to substantiate my theory regarding the birth of many of the bibles myths and the reasons for creating said myths.
my opinion is no more biased than your holier than thou proselytizing.
MissA
06-21-2010, 11:31 AM
Here is what I think...
Maybe its a hodgepodge of other culture's shit, but its a good starting point for us to track where all of the various tales came from and prove our theory about a global culture.
Are you with me????
*crickets chirp*
Here is what I think...
Maybe its a hodgepodge of other culture's shit, but its a good starting point for us to track where all of the various tales came from and prove our theory about a global culture.
Are you with me????
*crickets chirp*
you know i am, but its pointless doing it here.
BE will only continue to troll and watcher will continue to exclaim how biased we are.
any decent posts containing relevant information is just ignored.
take it to the other place if you like, it all has relevance to the research. :)
MissA
06-21-2010, 11:39 AM
Will do if you tell Kiwi to give me a tiny break from my reading list. :D
hahaha....ok.
just give me something to follow up while your reading through the rest and at least i can get started on something.
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-21-2010, 12:02 PM
no actually i included links within my OP to substantiate my theory regarding the birth of many of the bibles myths and the reasons for creating said myths.
my opinion is no more biased than your holier than thou proselytizing.
It's all simply logic Mojo, you know that philosophical concept/framework you guys like to twist to mean only "We're right" in the on going and emmensely silly believer/disbeliever wars. Despite the fact that logic is a framework for arguments not factuality of arguments. A argument can be logical and still factually false after all.
And as for accusing me of bias. Who just backpedaled and called what he previously declared as fact a theory?
That right there is a illustration of bias. Where is mine? By declaring that the true answer is not known and perhaps unknowable? By pointing out the fact that both your and your opposite refuse to look at the big picture and instead only include information to attempt to justify your assumptive leaps that you assert as fact?
MissA
06-21-2010, 12:19 PM
This stuff is always hotly contested because of the cultural history we have with it. Very few people have no emotional response.
It's all simply logic Mojo, you know that philosophical concept/framework you guys like to twist to mean only "We're right" in the on going and emmensely silly believer/disbeliever wars. Despite the fact that logic is a framework for arguments not factuality of arguments. A argument can be logical and still factually false after all.
i dont understand philosophy or concepts and frameworks or whatever your talking about. i say what i think is right or what makes sense to me based on what ive read or seen. yes thats biased, just as your perceptions are.
And as for accusing me of bias.
hahahaha....nice try mate, you are the one that made the accusation of bias first.
Face it Mojo you are treating your subjective *and horribly biased* opinion as objective fact regardless of how much schmata reinforcement you have partaken in.
Who just backpedaled and called what he previously declared as fact a theory?
That right there is a illustration of bias. Where is mine? By declaring that the true answer is not known and perhaps unknowable? By pointing out the fact that both your and your opposite refuse to look at the big picture and instead only include information to attempt to justify your assumptive leaps that you assert as fact?
lol, heres your bias.
you waltz into this thread, make no relevant comment about the OP or the information located in any of the links to substantiate the OP. all of your comments are purely personal in nature and just as trollish as anything BE posts.
you dont discuss the OP or any of the evidence i put forward you just call it "horribly biased" .
nothing you've posted in this thread is designed to be discussed or debated, just your typical personal accusations.
tbh i'm not interested in responding to anyhting more that either you or BE have to say in this thread.
i dont understand philosophy or concepts And that, in a nutshell, is your problem.
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-21-2010, 12:31 PM
i dont understand philosophy or concepts and frameworks or whatever your talking about. i say what i think is right or what makes sense to me based on what ive read or seen. yes thats biased, just as your perceptions are.
hahahaha....nice try mate, you are the one that made the accusation of bias first.
lol, heres your bias.
you waltz into this thread, make no relevant comment about the OP or the information located in any of the links to substantiate the OP. all of your comments are purely personal in nature and just as trollish as anything BE posts.
you dont discuss the OP or any of the evidence i put forward you just call it "horribly biased" .
nothing you've posted in this thread is designed to be discussed or debated, just your typical personal accusations.
tbh i'm not interested in responding to anyhting more that either you or BE have to say in this thread.
You might wish to do some research as to what bias means. Trust me it's not hard.
And incidentally, if you make judgemental calls and call them fact you really should have your ducks in a row. Not a "how dare you" "whoa ways me" piss and moan complete with grade school schoolyard argument tactics.
I explained my stance and why I said it, which you avoid addressing except the usual pediantic spew.
MissA
06-21-2010, 12:44 PM
Otto: Apes don't quote philosophy
Wanda: Yes, they do. They just don't understand it.
You might wish to do some research as to what bias means. Trust me it's not hard.
And incidentally, if you make judgmental calls and call them fact you really should have your ducks in a row. Not a "how dare you" "whoa ways me" piss and moan complete with grade school schoolyard argument tactics.
I explained my stance and why I said it, which you avoid addressing except the usual pedantic spew.
Rarely do I agree with you. But in this matter I do. 100%
Cogburn
06-21-2010, 01:03 PM
It's all simply logic Mojo, you know that philosophical concept/framework you guys like to twist to mean only "We're right" in the on going and emmensely silly believer/disbeliever wars. Despite the fact that logic is a framework for arguments not factuality of arguments. A argument can be logical and still factually false after all.
And as for accusing me of bias. Who just backpedaled and called what he previously declared as fact a theory?
That right there is a illustration of bias. Where is mine? By declaring that the true answer is not known and perhaps unknowable? By pointing out the fact that both your and your opposite refuse to look at the big picture and instead only include information to attempt to justify your assumptive leaps that you assert as fact?
This is the second time you've said something like this in as many days.
You seem to be under the impression that there is some objective meta-reality, to which humanity must strive towards comprehending or its all a waste of time.
Everything we know is little more than an educated guess born from the limited perceptions of our narrowly tuned senses.
The only thing that we know exists for sure in the entire universe is human bias.
Your argument is reductive to the point of ridiculousness.
yup.
funny shit.
in fact i'd be willing to bet that watcher never clicked on a single link contained in my OP.
ahh well, time to turn on my inbuilt ignore guidance system.
MissA
06-21-2010, 01:18 PM
yup.
funny shit.
in fact i'd be willing to bet that watcher never clicked on a single link contained in my OP.
ahh well, time to turn on my inbuilt ignore guidance system.
I'm so fucking sleepy from staying up all night that everything suddenly makes sense.
This is the second time you've said something like this in as many days.
You seem to be under the impression that there is some objective meta-reality, to which humanity must strive towards comprehending or its all a waste of time.
Everything we know is little more than an educated guess born from the limited perceptions of our narrowly tuned senses.
The only thing that we know exists for sure in the entire universe is human bias.
Your argument is reductive to the point of ridiculousness.How does that comport with the guy's assertion that
...the true answer is not known and perhaps unknowableHis contention is exactly the opposite of the way you've characterized it.
That's a 9th grade Mojo tactic.
MrPenny
06-21-2010, 01:23 PM
"Unknowable" refers to a "meta-reality"
I'm so fucking sleepy from staying up all night that everything suddenly makes sense.
im going to crash too. ive started on the list. post it later. 6 different terms so far.
later. :)
Cogburn
06-21-2010, 01:41 PM
How does that comport with the guy's assertion that... His contention is exactly the opposite of the way you've characterized it.
The contention was that because such things are unknowable that it is pointless to ask questions, even if only to give observations personal meaning.
It is the discussion itself which is being assaulted because of a presumption of that some of the universe may be known and some may not. The universe may have ineffable aspects perhaps, but the declaration that it is unknowable is an unsupported assertion and serves only to devolve the discussion to a meaningless context... ergo, reductio ad absurdum.
The contention was that because such things are unknowable that it is pointless to ask questions, even if only to give observations personal meaning.You and I are reading this guy's posts differently then. He's asking questions and searching for answers- even while rejecting the simplistic notions of MissA and her 'cute monkey'.
MissA
06-21-2010, 01:50 PM
The contention was that because such things are unknowable that it is pointless to ask questions, even if only to give observations personal meaning.
It is the discussion itself which is being assaulted because of a presumption of that some of the universe may be known and some may not. The universe may have ineffable aspects perhaps, but the declaration that it is unknowable is an unsupported assertion and serves only to devolve the discussion to a meaningless context... ergo, reductio ad absurdum.
That the stars are masses of plasma is not "unknowable" but to many intelligent ancients they were but holes in the celestial ceiling.
Not having a platform of knowledge nor the technology to prove something does indeed give rise to the assertion of something appearing to be"unknowable". Will it always be so? No. However, from your framework (ie perch) it is "unknowable" for the present moment and the present moment is all that we truly own.
Not to say that we cannot dream of a time where it becomes known, but then, we could use that argument to debate the existence of God, as well. Just because our limited intellects and archaic tools cannot prove its existence does not mean that it cannot be proven at a later date.
There's no percentage in beating on straw dogs. Watcher's position was mischaracterizedand yet you merrily jumped on it in any case. Shameful.
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-21-2010, 03:13 PM
I think the word everyone *save one* seems to be missing is the word PERHAPS. And I know everyone is smart enough to know what it means. I would not make an absolute statement like that as I am no fortune teller.
Which just strengthens my view that people generally only see what they want to see.
MissA
06-21-2010, 03:18 PM
I think the word everyone *save one* seems to be missing is the word PERHAPS. And I know everyone is smart enough to know what it means. I would not make an absolute statement like that as I am no fortune teller.
Which just strengthens my view that people generally only see what they want to see.
I saw it Watcher, and I also understood the position you were coming from. As I said earlier this is an emotional topic to many whether they would choose to admit it or not.
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-21-2010, 03:28 PM
Then why exactly were you acting as if I had? And I am aware of that and don't mind that so much as the bullshit people perpetrate in furtherance of their emotional response. Until mankind learns self control this world is going to stay as it is.
MissA
06-21-2010, 03:30 PM
Then why exactly were you acting as if I had? And I am aware of that and don't mind that so much as the bullshit people perpetrate in furtherance of their emotional response. Until mankind learns self control this world is going to stay as it is.
Where have I, Sir? I will acquit myself better.
Note: Probably in one of my peacekeeping posts that always piss everyone off.
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-21-2010, 03:38 PM
You didn't piss me off so no worries. If you meant different perhaps the failure was mine in intrepreting your statement.
Then why exactly were you acting as if I had?Good damned question. It is the height of dis-ingenuity.
MissA
06-21-2010, 03:44 PM
You didn't piss me off so no worries. If you meant different perhaps the failure was mine in intrepreting your statement.
Well, you know I would like to see you stick around.
He was here long before you and will be here long after you.
Watcher-In-The-Shadows
06-21-2010, 04:11 PM
Well, you know I would like to see you stick around.
I am current incapable of getting pissed off at anyone on the net. *You know why.*
MissA
06-21-2010, 04:22 PM
I am current incapable of getting pissed off at anyone on the net. *You know why.*
Yes, I do. Sir.
Shit. Just realized how long we've known each other. I was on the other site for quite a while.
Anyway, I agree with what you said, although I worded it differently; that it is an issue with emotional context.
it is an issue with emotional apparently so for a certain variety of pre-menopausal poseurs.
You and I are reading this guy's posts differently then. He's asking questions and searching for answers- even while rejecting the simplistic notions of MissA and her 'cute monkey'.
what fucking question was asked moron.
he stated that the whole premise of my OP was "horribly biased"
thats not a question, that is in itself a personalized statement of bias.
i reckon its time to hack your account again so you'll chuck a hissy and fuck off back to HM and RU because all your interested in doing on this forum is causing division.
Which just strengthens my view that people generally only see what they want to see.
including yourself.
He was here long before you and will be here long after you.
what the fuck has the time anyone has been here have to do with anything.
your slip is showing troll.
apparently so for a certain variety of pre-menopausal poseurs.
but not so much for insidious old cunts with delusions of grandeur.
MissA
06-21-2010, 10:46 PM
what fucking question was asked moron.
he stated that the whole premise of my OP was "horribly biased"
thats not a question, that is in itself a personalized statement of bias.
i reckon its time to hack your account again so you'll chuck a hissy and fuck off back to HM and RU because all your interested in doing on this forum is causing division.
So it was YOU!
jk
So it was YOU!
jk
i might as well say that i did.
maybe he'll get all pissy again and fuck off for good.
MissA
06-21-2010, 10:52 PM
i might as well say that i did.
maybe he'll get all pissy again and fuck off for good.
It would be unBuddha-like for me to cross my fingers.
meh...its a pipe dream. he doesn't understand honesty. he doesn't care about this forum or the community. all that matters to him is his own self indulgent hypocrisy.
WhispersInTheDark
06-22-2010, 12:17 AM
all that matters to him is his own self indulgent hypocrisy.
There is the biblical God in one sentence.
There is the biblical God in one sentence.
BAM!!
Hazelnut
06-22-2010, 12:20 AM
meh...its a pipe dream. he doesn't understand honesty. he doesn't care about this forum or the community. all that matters to him is his own self indulgent hypocrisy.
It makes him happy to BE disruptive.
MissA
06-22-2010, 12:22 AM
There is the biblical God in one sentence.
You're good at finding things...there is a UK movie using stories from the Trainspotting guy...and there is a segment where God is a drunken Scotsman...I kinda think that's probably how it would go in my world. I'm the kind of person who would end up with that kind of grouchy bastard God.
You're good at finding things...there is a UK movie using stories from the Trainspotting guy...and there is a segment where God is a drunken Scotsman...I kinda think that's probably how it would go in my world. I'm the kind of person who would end up with that kind of grouchy bastard God.
Irvine Welsh.
MissA
06-22-2010, 12:25 AM
Thank you, egg. I just remembered the movie's name: The Acid House.
Thank you, egg. I just remembered the movie's name: The Acid House.
Good?
It makes him happy to BE disruptive.
yes....we know this.
it is his pudding.
MissA
06-22-2010, 12:26 AM
Good?
Interesting?
skunk
06-22-2010, 02:22 AM
meh...its a pipe dream. he doesn't understand honesty. he doesn't care about this forum or the community. all that matters to him is his own self indulgent hypocrisy.
Best way to deal with a troll is to ignore it.
Don't respond to it, don't acknowledge its existence, and it'll surely leave.
For the sake of amkon, everyone should do so.
I could honestly care less if people decide to add it to their ignore list, just don't take its bait or talk to it.
Back to the topic.
this article suggests that the source material is not as likely to have been derived from Sumer or Akkad but rather from Ugarit and/or the Near East.
Excerpts from Chapter two.
http://www.michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/babylonbaghdad.pdf
The watery beginnings of the universe have parallels not only in other
Mesopotamian Creation myths but even in Egyptian and Greek texts and thus cannot be evidence of particularly
Babylonian influence. The splitting of the waters (in Genesis, on the second day) is uniquely parallel to the
splitting of aqueous Tiamat in Enu¯ ma Eliš, although the splitting of other substances is well attested in Sumerian,
Akkadian, Hittite, Egyptian and Greek myths. As for the third day, Lambert finds a Mesopotamian parallel to the
separation of the sea from the dry land, but it is not from Enu¯ ma Eliš. The most important parallel Lambert finds is
with the seventh day, the Sabbath. Man is created in Enu¯ ma Eliš to give rest to the gods. If so, both Enu¯ ma Eliš
and Genesis 1:1–2:4a climax with divine res
Enu¯ ma Eliš appears to be one of a range of sources that the biblical authors
drew upon.
But although Delitzsch and Smith dismissed this borrowing as naive and mechanical, I believe something
far more thoughtful and thought-provoking was taking place. The literary character of Enu¯ ma Eliš itself offers an
example of how and why the Biblical author drew on this source.
Enu¯ ma Eliš is on the surface a unified work with a clear, consistent plot and message.Yet it, too,adopted and assimilated numerous ideas and literary themes from earlier sources.
Ancient Hebrew Research Centre (http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/22_home.html)
The city of Ugarit was occupied from pre-historic times to about 1200 BCE when it was mysteriously deserted. The tablets with the Ugarit cuneiform were written in its later life (about 1300 to 1200 BCE). It was discovered through the writings of the tablets that the people of the city were worshipers of the same Canaanite gods as their surrounding neighbors including deities as El, Baal, Asherah and even Yahweh. The culture, lifestyles and literary writings were found to be very similar to the Israelites and can also shed much light on the Biblical text.
The origins of the Ugarit cuneiform script is not known but can be assumed that it was derived out of the same Pictographic script used to write Hebrew, just as the Sumerian cuneiform evolved out of a pictographic script. This theory adds to the evidence that the Semitic/Hebrew script is older than previously thought.
http://www.adath-shalom.ca/ugarit.htm
Since the Israelites had little experience in governing and lacked a higher culture, in a literary and artistic sense, they borrowed.
The united Israelite kingdom under Solomon borrowed its administrative system[2] (http://amkon.net/l%20_edn2) and the Wisdom tradition of education administrators from the Egyptians. A "smoking gun" is found in the biblical Book of Proverbs which probably started out as a Wisdom textbook. Proverbs 22:17-24:22 "…is modeled on an Egyptian work, The Instructions of Amen-em-ope. This may have been composed as early as the thirteenth century B.C., but was still being copied centuries later and may well have been studied during his training by an Israelite scribe of the prophetic period."[3] (http://amkon.net/l%20_edn3)
The Israelites appropriated their literary and artistic higher culture from the Canaanites. The channel was either the scribes, architects and artists of local cities such as Jerusalem, whose Jebusite-Canaanite population remained in the city after it became the Israelite capital, or from the Phoenician cities of present-day Lebanon whose Canaanite culture flourished unbroken from the Middle Bronze age until Hellenistic times.
The adoption of the Egyptian administrative system, and its cultural values, may have led to greater stratification in Israelite society, a deliberate distancing of the rulers from the ruled, the splitting of the kingdom after the death of Solomon and exacerbated the social problems denounced by some of the prophets. However, some of these processes were simply intrinsic to the institutionalization of a state.
The cultural interaction with the Canaanites (see Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel (http://amkon.net/israelite_religion.htm/lsyn_in_context)) was even more problematic. For one thing, the Israelites lived cheek-by-jowl with the Canaanites for centuries. They spoke the same language and, indeed, much of the Israelite population may have been Canaanite by origin.
These tablets revealed, to the incredulous eyes of the epigraphers, was a literature written down in about 1375 BCE but much older in origin. This literature described the exploits of the Canaanite gods, known from the Hebrew Bible, in the form of great epic cycles. Among the interesting revelations is that, in the words of Pfeiffer (http://amkon.net/l%20Pfeiffer) (p. 57)-
Many of the sacrifices mentioned in the Ugaritic texts have names which are identical to those described in the book of Leviticus. Ugaritic texts speak of the Burnt Offering, the Whole Burnt Offering, the Trespass Offering, the Offering for Expiation of the Soul; the Wave Offering, the Tribute Offering, the First Fruits Offering, the Peace Offering, and the New Moon Offering. The term "offering without blemish" also appears in the Ugaritic literature.
this is just.......i dont know how to describe it!
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/textbook-fraud-letter-15-yr-old.htm
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/textbook-fraud-scopes-trial-inherit-wind.htm
Inherit the Wind (http://www.bible.ca/tracks/textbook-fraud-scopes-trial-inherit-wind.htm): The Scopes Trial.
If your teacher shows you this fraudulent misrepresentation of the trial in your class, call the police and have him arrested for fraud!
:lol:
interesting article here.
http://ggreenberg.tripod.com/writings/w-egypt-eden.htm
This paper examines some of the verses and images associated with the story of Adam and Eve and compares them with elements in the Heliopolitan Creation myths. It will be suggested that Adam and Eve correspond in part to Geb and Nut and in part to Osiris and Isis. Additionally, it will be suggested that the three male sons of Adam and Eve—Cain, Abel and Seth—correspond to the three male sons of Geb and Nut—Osiris, Seth, and Horus.
http://www.adath-shalom.ca/ugarit.htm
Since the Israelites had little experience in governing and lacked a higher culture, in a literary and artistic sense, they borrowed.
The united Israelite kingdom under Solomon borrowed its administrative system[2] (http://amkon.net/showthread.php/l%20_edn2) and the Wisdom tradition of education administrators from the Egyptians. A "smoking gun" is found in the biblical Book of Proverbs which probably started out as a Wisdom textbook. Proverbs 22:17-24:22 "…is modeled on an Egyptian work, The Instructions of Amen-em-ope. This may have been composed as early as the thirteenth century B.C., but was still being copied centuries later and may well have been studied during his training by an Israelite scribe of the prophetic period."[3] (http://amkon.net/showthread.php/l%20_edn3)
The Israelites appropriated their literary and artistic higher culture from the Canaanites. The channel was either the scribes, architects and artists of local cities such as Jerusalem, whose Jebusite-Canaanite population remained in the city after it became the Israelite capital, or from the Phoenician cities of present-day Lebanon whose Canaanite culture flourished unbroken from the Middle Bronze age until Hellenistic times.
These tablets revealed, to the incredulous eyes of the epigraphers, was a literature written down in about 1375 BCE but much older in origin. This literature described the exploits of the Canaanite gods, known from the Hebrew Bible, in the form of great epic cycles. Among the interesting revelations is that, in the words of Pfeiffer (http://amkon.net/showthread.php/l%20Pfeiffer) (p. 57)-
Many of the sacrifices mentioned in the Ugaritic texts have names which are identical to those described in the book of Leviticus. Ugaritic texts speak of the Burnt Offering, the Whole Burnt Offering, the Trespass Offering, the Offering for Expiation of the Soul; the Wave Offering, the Tribute Offering, the First Fruits Offering, the Peace Offering, and the New Moon Offering. The term "offering without blemish" also appears in the Ugaritic literature.
http://www.saradistribution.com/Cyrus_H_Gordon.htm
Of his many major academic contributions, perhaps Prof. Gordon’s most lasting will prove to be his efforts to better understand Ugaritic, a Semitic language used by Late Bronze Age Canaanites at Ugarit, Syria, c. 1550-1175 BCE., and written with a unique cuneiform alphabet. Prof. Gordon’s intimate knowledge of Ugaritic primary sources enabled him to advance a model of cultural diffusion between the Greeks and Hebrews, as well as other Eastern Mediterranean and Near Eastern peoples. To put it simply, Prof. Gordon believed he’d encountered evidence that many ancient peoples had exchanged cultural materials (traditions, myths, calendars, scripts, etc.) despite war, differences, and distances. His support of a model of cultural diffusion both inspired and confused other scholars
Red Skare
06-08-2011, 06:45 PM
The word "Adam," as the proper name for the first man can be misleading. It comes from ha-adam in Hebrew, which translates to "the man"—Hebrew has no capital letters. The word adam is extracted from adamah, meaning country, earth, ground, husband, earth, or land. This suggests the context in Genesis 3:19, when God says "you are dust, and to dust you shall return." The name represents the material from which he was made. He wasn't an actual person.
Likewise, "Eve" is translated from the Hebrew chavvaòh, for lifegiver, as in "the mother of all living." Its root, Chaya, means "serpent" in Aramaic. Eve and serpent are taken to be synonymous.
The word, Eden, has been traced to the Sumerian language, meaning fertile land. To the Hebrews who later settled in the region, the word eden came to mean "delight" or "enjoyment." In a sense, it is a garden of delight.
In sum, the words Adam and Eve describe nobody in particular, and Eden describes no place in particular. It belongs with all the pagan mythologies of its type.
eh makes sense the jews wrote the OT so adam comes from a jewish word... But it robably came from Atum which is the egyptian name for the first being.
and probably the egyptian meaning was influenced by mesopotamian mythology, which in turn was influenced by tribes from anatolia and the caucasus and so on and so on back through time. :)
Red Skare
06-08-2011, 07:09 PM
and probably the egyptian meaning was influenced by mesopotamian mythology, which in turn was influenced by tribes from anatolia and the caucasus and so on and so on back through time. :)
I just do not think so, the egyptian religion started out more conceptual and then got political and then turned into worshping anthropomorphised gods much later while other cultures started right out with religion as history.
ohh i think the egyptian religions were an extremely influential part of historical religious evolution but theres no doubt in my mind that some of the earlier cultures influenced them as well. some of the similarities are too close imo, but its all guesswork really until such time as we find some earlier 'pre caananite "rosetta stone".
Red Skare
06-09-2011, 01:15 AM
ohh i think the egyptian religions were an extremely influential part of historical religious evolution but theres no doubt in my mind that some of the earlier cultures influenced them as well. some of the similarities are too close imo, but its all guesswork really until such time as we find some earlier 'pre caananite "rosetta stone".
I think the egyptian religion was heavily influenced others but way latter. What the egyptians originally had was probably closer to Buddhism. But the way things go they started making religious writing something left for only a few chosen. Over time the concepts latter became the animal heads with man bodies and made into fables like most religions that came after it.
some of the bible similarities to sumerian mythology here:
http://www.bandoli.no/sumerianlegacy.htm
DocVelocity
07-01-2011, 05:25 AM
Over time the concepts latter became the animal heads with man bodies and made into fables like most religions that came after it.
Whew... Just kinda sweep all that animal-headed shit under the carpet, right. Fables. Um... What if the fables were true? What if there actually were women with snakes for hair, or animal bodies with human heads and shit like that?
Are you telling me it's NOT POSSIBLE?
Shit, brother, we have people fucking around with the Human Genome Project who can tell you that the merger of species is entirely possible — or incorporating characteristics of one species into another is ENTIRELY possible. Fuck, baby, they are DOING it right now, they've been doing it for years.
You think that we're the only civilization that ever figured that shit out?
Oh. Contraire.
I think that there have been SEVERAL intelligent civilizations on this planet over the millions of years... I personally think they're STILL HERE, and that we coexist with them on Earth.
But those other civilizations are far older and far more technically advanced than we are; in fact, I think they were fucking around with the human genome back around the time of Genesis, which would be four or five thousand years ago, right?
Ah! That's the same time as the rise of Egyptian civilization.
And I think there were ALL SORTS of fucking genetic misfits back then. Fuck... Men with dog heads? Not a problem.
Beyond that, I think that advanced civilizations told the Egyptians (and the fucking Europeans, AND the Chinese, AND the Peruvians, AND all the cultures that used mummification) that they could LIVE ETERNALLY if they preserved samples of their DNA for LATER generations to CLONE, okay.
Sound silly?
Eh. It actually makes more sense than the long-winded explanation cranked out by the so-called Scientific Community.
— Doc Velocity
BloodDrops
07-24-2011, 07:01 PM
I think as a crutch for people who need it it serves a purpose.
It makes my grandmother feel alot better about life without my
grandad if she believes he's trotting around in heaven knockin'
back a beer with st Peter and shootin' some pool. :D
I'd prefer it disappeared off the face of the planet but that aint
going to happen so....i guess you just deal with it.
I'd love for the sheep to understand the lies they've been fed for the past 2200 years though.
Sadly you will never get them to buy it.
boycotteverything
07-24-2011, 07:33 PM
no harm, no foul. fuckit.
"When they tell me that Jesus taught a gospel of love, I say I believe it. Plato taught a gospel of love before him, and you deny it. If they say, Jesus taught that it is better to bear an injury than to retaliate, I say, yes, but so did Aristotle before Jesus was born. I will accept it as the statement of Jesus if you will admit that Aristotle said it too. I am willing that any man should come before us and say, Jesus taught that you must love your enemies, it is written in the Bible; but, if he will open the old manuscript of Diogenes Laertus, he may there read in texts that have never been disputed, that the Greek philosophers, half a dozen of them, said the same before Jesus was born."
The Golden Rule has been ascribed to Christ. Was he its author?
Five hundred years before the time of Christ, Confucius taught
"What you do not like when done to yourself do not to others."
coldjoint
11-28-2011, 08:04 PM
The Golden Rule has been ascribed to Christ. Was he its author?
Five hundred years before the time of Christ, Confucius taught
"What you do not like when done to yourself do not to others."
Who ever said men don't have good ideas? That this turned out to be something the Christian faith encourages is coincidental.
Who ever said men don't have good ideas? That this turned out to be something the Christian faith encourages is coincidental.
lmao, they encouraged it, they fucking plagiarized it and claimed it as their own and then....ONLY after they had enslaved the population with threats of vengeance, death and torture.
coldjoint
11-28-2011, 10:51 PM
lmao, they encouraged it, they fucking plagiarized it and claimed it as their own and then....ONLY after they had enslaved the population with threats of vengeance, death and torture.
You always seem to be describing Islam. Why is that?
WynHawks
11-28-2011, 11:28 PM
...cuz you're an idiot, cockhead...
Snow Crash
11-28-2011, 11:31 PM
...cuz you're an idiot, cockhead...
A delusional one at that.
WynHawks
11-28-2011, 11:32 PM
...probably inbred...
Snow Crash
11-28-2011, 11:34 PM
Undoubtedly, I'd suggest.
coldjoint
11-28-2011, 11:36 PM
...probably inbred...
You did not see the link that shows Muslims have been 1st cousins, even uncles and nieces for a long time. I would ask if you are color blind but females only carry the condition.
coldjoint
11-28-2011, 11:37 PM
Undoubtedly, I'd suggest.
And twice two. Would you like some info on Muslim inbreeding? Hell Mohammed slept with his moms sister, blood aunt.
Qur'an 66:1 "O Prophet! Why forbid yourself that which Allah has made lawful to you? You seek to please your consorts. And Allah is Forgiving, Most Kind. Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows."
WynHawks
11-28-2011, 11:40 PM
...muslims arent here on this board being a liar - you are, cockhead...
Snow Crash
11-28-2011, 11:42 PM
And twice two. Would you like some info on Muslim inbreeding? Hell Mohammed slept with his moms sister, blood aunt.
You seem obsessed with inbreeding.... are you Doc Velocitard's sister, by chance?
LudwidVonBunnypants
11-28-2011, 11:56 PM
I want to get a copy of the StThomas gospel... From what I gather its basic message is that you can have a relationship with God without third party intervention like the church...
Snow Crash
11-28-2011, 11:57 PM
I want to get a copy of the StThomas gospel... From what I gather its basic message is that you can have a relationship with God without third party intervention like the church...
A dangerous idea to some, for sure.
coldjoint
11-28-2011, 11:59 PM
You seem obsessed with inbreeding.... are you Doc Velocitard's sister, by chance?
You asked for it deal with it. Muslims are inbred in many areas of the world. Most recently England has seen quite a few results of these marriages and taxpayer money is supporting them. These are severely impaired children, a direct result of inbreeding. Again sanctioned by Islam. It keeps getting better doesn't it?
http://www.truthandgrace.com/musliminbreeding.htm
WynHawks
11-28-2011, 11:59 PM
You seem obsessed with inbreeding.... are you Doc Velocitard's sister, by chance?
...their bastard...
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 12:01 AM
...muslims arent here on this board being a liar - you are, cockhead...
I am not lying about anything. Tell me what lies? Don't forget your favorite Muslim FAQ.
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 12:02 AM
You asked for it deal with it.
Once again, you demonstrate your lacking grasp of English. You really should have stayed in school rather than skipping lessons to beat off to the audio book version of Mein Kampf.
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 12:03 AM
...their bastard...
Coldnuts Velocity... what a name. No wonder he is so angry.
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 12:04 AM
Coldnuts Velocity... what a name. No wonder he is so angry.
Read the links and deny the problem. Oh you can't?
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 12:08 AM
Read the links and deny the problem. Oh you can't?
I don't frequent white power sites. Sorry. We're still waiting for your to provide a credible source for your 'truth'. Oh you can't?
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 12:18 AM
I don't frequent white power sites. Sorry. We're still waiting for your to provide a credible source for your
'truth'. Oh you can't?
No what you are saying is that your argument is nonexistent. You only want one side of the story, and that fact alone should disqualify your stupid ass from even posting on it. Anyone could see that you have nothing but names and assumptions up against recorded facts. But keep going anyway because I know that you know nothing about this except your bigot rhetoric.
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 12:21 AM
...cockhead's inbred charlie ancestor...
http://www.terrierman.com/charlesIIofspain.jpg
the idiot king Charles II of Spain, the product of generations of inbreeding by the Hapsburg family. This is a man whose face and chin were so distorted by the "Hapsburg Lip" that he could not eat without assistance.
...only an idiot would brag about being a descendant of that clan...
...additionally, since cockhead insists on bringing that silly pos bible into it - and the posers wrote...
The results of inbreeding are not a closely-held secret. Deuteronomy 27:22 reads: "Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother..." Leviticus offers a similar admonition.
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 12:22 AM
No what you are saying is that your argument is nonexistent.
Holy shit folks! I think he might be starting to grasp that he is being trolled! Breakthrough at last!
You only want one side of the story, and that fact alone should disqualify your stupid ass from even posting on it. Anyone could see that you have nothing but names and assumptions up against recorded facts. But keep going anyway because I know that you know nothing about this except your bigot rhetoric.
Oh wait, false alarm, never mind.
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 12:23 AM
...cockhead's inbred charlie ancestor...
http://www.terrierman.com/charlesIIofspain.jpg
the idiot king Charles II of Spain, the product of generations of inbreeding by the Hapsburg family. This is a man whose face and chin were so distorted by the "Hapsburg Lip" that he could not eat without assistance.
...only an idiot would brag about being a descendant of that clan...
...additionally, since cockhead insists on bringing that silly pos bible into it - and the posers wrote...
The results of inbreeding are not a closely-held secret. Deuteronomy 27:22 reads: "Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother..." Leviticus offers a similar admonition.
You have seen the links Islam is inbred, deal with it, stupid. And something that is alive and well today just like the killings by Islam.
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 12:25 AM
You have seen the links Islam is inbred, deal with it, stupid.
Woah there, Himmler. Sorry to dent your fascist world view, but you got no authority here. If Wyn wants to mock your stupid bullshit, that is her right.
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 12:30 AM
You people act like Islams actions are the direct responsibilities of Christianity? Islam is a religion that stands alone. The violent verses and the hate it displays for non-muslims have nothing to do with Christianity. These ideas come from Islam. They own this evil all by themselves.
PS I noticed my green dots went down. I don't really care for green it is on too many Islamic flags anyway. Ha Ha
bitdrops
11-29-2011, 12:37 AM
You people act like Islams actions are the direct responsibilities of Christianity?
No, it's all your fault, punk.
And Islam doesn't stand on it's own at all. It's the last offspring of a stream of unfortunate and idiotic desert religions.
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 12:38 AM
You people act like Islams actions are the direct responsibilities of Christianity?
Actually I just think you're a pillock, but there ya go.
bitdrops
11-29-2011, 12:41 AM
http://www.hood.de/img1/full/1587/15876456.jpg
:D
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 12:42 AM
Actually I just think you're a pillock, but there ya go.
How about a real answer? Why does Islam kill people? Who fault is it but theirs? No ones.
bitdrops
11-29-2011, 12:43 AM
PS I noticed my green dots went down. I don't really care for green it is on too many Islamic flags anyway. Ha Ha
k.
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 12:44 AM
kk
LudwidVonBunnypants
11-29-2011, 12:48 AM
You people act like Islams actions are the direct responsibilities of Christianity? Islam is a religion that stands alone. The violent verses and the hate it displays for non-muslims have nothing to do with Christianity. These ideas come from Islam. They own this evil all by themselves.
If ya want to get all historical, Islam is an offshoot of Christianity... 660ish AD Mohammad ripped off quite a bit of the judeo-christian ideas and texts and crafted a religion palatable to tribes of goat herders who thought things like trees and rocks had their own unique spirit...
After the fall of Rome, Europe entered the middle ages and technological advances become very slow and the 'west' went stagnant... People 'forgot' medicine and how to even make the arch... During the crusades knowledge was brought back to western capitols along with gold and silver... The dark ages ended and the west advanced...
If Rome had not fallen we would be a thousand years more advanced.. If the Islamic areas had not been stable enough to hold roman knowledge we would still be back in the 1700's...
Islam is very tightly interwoven with Judeo-Christian history and ideals.. The problems today only started cropping up a hundred years ago and are very minuscule in the grand scope of things...
bitdrops
11-29-2011, 12:49 AM
kk
kkk. :D
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 12:50 AM
How about a real answer? Why does Islam kill people? Who fault is it but theirs? No ones.
I could tell you that a lot of national causes are deliberately painted as being religious in origin in order to keep the tabloid media consuming western public on side. I could show you all kinds of stuff about Western aggression against these nations.
But then, I'd be wasting my time, wouldn't I. :lol:
bitdrops
11-29-2011, 12:51 AM
Also, cue in "Islam doesn't kill people. I do."
:rofl2:
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 12:57 AM
I could tell you that a lot of national causes are deliberately painted as being religious in origin in order to keep the tabloid media consuming western public on side. I could show you all kinds of stuff about Western aggression against these nations.
But then, I'd be wasting my time, wouldn't I. :lol:
Islam started the aggression from day 1 and were subdued by 1700. It is an old war started by Islam. That sums up history. We won once, but did not finish the job. Something that would have never happened if the situations were reversed.
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 12:58 AM
Islam started the aggression from day 1 and were subdued by 1700. It is an old war started by Islam. That sums up history. We won once, but did not finish the job. Something that would have never happened if the situations were reversed.
...again, who is this 'we' to which you keep referring?
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 01:04 AM
...again, who is this 'we' to which you keep referring?
...inbredsRus would be my guess...
http://www.damnedifgodexists.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gods-fanboy.jpg
LudwidVonBunnypants
11-29-2011, 01:05 AM
Islam started the aggression from day 1 and were subdued by 1700. It is an old war started by Islam. That sums up history. We won once, but did not finish the job. Something that would have never happened if the situations were reversed.
No asshat.... They were happy racing camels and jacking off goats.... The problems didn't stat until the colonial powers tried to take their land for *can I get a drumroll* OIL.
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 01:07 AM
...started before oil was a commodity, bunnypants...
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 11:11 AM
...started before oil was a commodity, bunnypants...
And we know who started it. Read the Koran, its intentions to advance Islam by any means possible could not be any clearer.
Reality1mp0sed
11-29-2011, 11:48 AM
No asshat.... They were happy racing camels and jacking off goats.... The problems didn't stat until the colonial powers tried to take their land for *can I get a drumroll* OIL.
But don't Christian-Muslim clashes go back as far as the Crusades, at least?
Watchdog
11-29-2011, 11:53 AM
But don't Christian-Muslim clashes go back as far as the Crusades, at least?
No even longer back in time, but thats irelevant, since we are civilized human beings
Reality1mp0sed
11-29-2011, 12:19 PM
No even longer back in time, but thats irelevant, since we are civilized human beings
We are? :seesaw:
I think the jury's still out on that one!
skunk
11-29-2011, 01:06 PM
Christians and Muslims have been killing each other as long as both religions have existed (in fact even farther back if you count the tribes they were a part of).
Desert peoples tend to be extremely focused on killing each other.
Reality1mp0sed
11-29-2011, 01:38 PM
Desert peoples tend to be extremely focused on killing each other.
Could this be due to sheer boredom?
Perhaps climate issues?
I'd be all hot and pissed off living in the desert too...
skunk
11-29-2011, 02:27 PM
Lack of resources and tribal issues such as land disputes, family feuds, etc IMO.
Reality1mp0sed
11-29-2011, 02:45 PM
Lack of resources and tribal issues such as land disputes, family feuds, etc IMO.
Well they should have sent Richard Dawson over there back in the 70's... that would have circumvented so much trouble!
skunk
11-29-2011, 02:51 PM
And Islam doesn't stand on it's own at all. It's the last offspring of a stream of unfortunate and idiotic desert religions.
Ha well said bitdrops.
How about a real answer? Why does Islam kill people? Who fault is it but theirs? No ones.
for the same reasons that all the other religions have or are killing people. DUH!!
And we know who started it. Read the Koran, its intentions to advance Islam by any means possible could not be any clearer.
I've supplied you with verifiable sources in other threads, the crusades was christianity attempting to annihilate every other single religion and heathens and atheists off the face of the planet. Islam and other religions fought back. Th fact that extremist elements of Islam would like to do the same does not change te fact that christianity, long before Islam and otrher religions had identified the threat that other religions posed to them and made a concerted effort to wipe them out, and are still doing so today even if their methods aren't the same. Try reading something other than white power bullshit.
Reality1mp0sed
11-29-2011, 04:21 PM
for the same reasons that all the other religions have or are killing people. DUH!!
Indeed, beliefs are dangerous...
People are better off sticking to principles.
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 04:35 PM
I've supplied you with verifiable sources in other threads, the crusades was christianity attempting to annihilate every other single religion and heathens and atheists off the face of the planet. Islam and other religions fought back. Th fact that extremist elements of Islam would like to do the same does not change te fact that christianity, long before Islam and otrher religions had identified the threat that other religions posed to them and made a concerted effort to wipe them out, and are still doing so today even if their methods aren't the same. Try reading something other than white power bullshit.
I have provided you with enough information for any sane person to see that Islam is killing people where ever they can,that they know these crimes will go unpunished. And in societies where it would be stopped they use terror and suicide bombers to kill more. Day by day it becomes history. Sounds like a new Dark Age,digitally enhanced and happening right now. But hey that's Islam, lets take if we can. And as it seems to be going, it is permissible due to colonialism? Colonialism only pumped money into a country, not bullets. Granted there were huge profits and still are, but why kill the people living there? For permitting it? This has even less to do with your white power bullshit, Does the fact that white people are free bother you? Are you saying only white people understand freedom. To say that only racist whites are appalled at Islams behavior shows you don't think too highly about people of color.
Watchdog
11-29-2011, 04:36 PM
Im gay and a moslim.
7041
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 04:37 PM
:lol:
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 04:38 PM
:lol:
Makes to much sense. I'll tone it down.
I don't care about the color of the dots, I just want a lot.
Reality1mp0sed
11-29-2011, 04:40 PM
I have provided you with enough information for any sane person to see that Islam is killing people where ever they can,that they know these crimes will go unpunished. And in societies where it would be stopped they use terror and suicide bombers to kill more.
What are your thoughts on Operation Cyclone?
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 04:41 PM
Makes to much sense. I'll tone it down.
I don't care about the color of the dots, I just want a lot.
I was laughing at the pic Watchdog posted. Is laughing not allowed in your Nazi plane of existance? Oh wait, let me guess, its Muslims who don't allow laughing, right?
:lol:
Colonialism only pumped money into a country, not bullets. Granted there were huge profits and still are, but why kill the people living there? For permitting it? This has even less to do with your white power bullshit, Does the fact that white people are free bother you? Are you saying only white people understand freedom. To say that only racist whites are appalled at Islams behavior shows you don't think too highly about people of color.
lmfao, you are a dipshit. Colonialism killed millions.
And the fact that i'm white doesn't have a damn thing to do with ALL fucking religions being power hungry, greedy, mysogynistic, violent cradles of shit.
Your stoopidity astounds me.
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 04:45 PM
I was laughing at the pic Watchdog posted. Is laughing not allowed in your Nazi plane of existance? Oh wait, let me guess, its Muslims who don't allow laughing, right?
:lol:
That reminds me where is my link on the IRA and the Nazis. You never posted one.
Watchdog
11-29-2011, 04:47 PM
ColdNuts really you think you can troll?
7042
you fail in so many ways, was that the best you can do? and what has my military service to do with you lol, if i ever would meet you in RL i would bring you to my muslim friends, and trust me you would not Love that, you fuckin asshat
Watchdog
11-29-2011, 04:48 PM
here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_%E2%80%93_Abwehr_collaborati on_in_World_War_II
and
Here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_Russell
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 04:50 PM
lmfao, you are a dipshit. Colonialism killed millions.
And the fact that i'm white doesn't have a damn thing to do with ALL fucking religions being power hungry, greedy, mysogynistic, violent cradles of shit.
Your stoopidity astounds me.
Again sounds like Islam, and only Islam. The other religions contain positives, and leave the door open to brotherhood. Islam gives you no choice, that is not positive, it is stupid. And how many did Muslims kill when they swept through North Africa all those precious years in the past? That was colonialism at the point of a sword.
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 04:53 PM
That reminds me where is my link on the IRA and the Nazis. You never posted one.
Lmfao! I posted FOUR in one post, you dishonest, idiotic cunt.
Yeah right, let's have a link.
No problem. Take your pick:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3614257/There-are-real-Nazi-lovers-here-the-IRA.html
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/oldsite/article.asp?ID=1250
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1391492,00.html
http://www.historyireland.com/volumes/volume13/issue3/features/?id=113841
More can be found on Google by simply searching "IRA and Hitler".
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 04:53 PM
ColdNuts really you think you can troll?
7042
you fail in so many ways, was that the best you can do? and what has my military service to do with you lol, if i ever would meet you in RL i would bring you to my muslim friends, and trust me you would not Love that, you fuckin asshat
SO?
Watchdog
11-29-2011, 04:54 PM
SO?
ok, ok, to be all serius and shit, why do you speak so much about islam? what has it done to you?:picardfp:
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 05:03 PM
ColdNuts really you think you can troll?
7042
you fail in so many ways, was that the best you can do? and what has my military service to do with you lol, if i ever would meet you in RL i would bring you to my muslim friends, and trust me you would not Love that, you fuckin asshat
Well I guess you would like to talk right here. Fine, I do not give a shit what you think. But you and others are very childish. Or so unbelievably smug it is annoying in itself. I don't claim to have any answers, but I can see that a tolerant society is being swallowed up by an intolerant one. I can prove it by the way I answered here, by people have already outsmarted everyone in the world. This a lot more important than egos. And that is what you dismiss despite obvious warnings in actions and deeds.
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 05:05 PM
Lmfao! I posted FOUR in one post, you dishonest, idiotic cunt.
Wait OOPS FUCK YOU< YOU LOOKED. I now how valuable your time is. Jerk.
Watchdog
11-29-2011, 05:05 PM
Well I guess you would like to talk right here. Fine, I do not give a shit what you think. But you and others are very childish. Or so unbelievably smug it is annoying in itself. I don't claim to have any answers, but I can see that a tolerant society is being swallowed up by an intolerant one. I can prove it by the way I answered here, by people have already outsmarted everyone in the world. This a lot more important than egos. And that is what you dismiss despite obvious warnings in actions and deeds.
So your on an E-Crusade to save the Xtian view and way of life?
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 05:09 PM
Wait OOPS FUCK YOU< YOU LOOKED. I now how valuable your time is. Jerk.
:lol:
Says a guy who spends his life here waffling on about Islam.
And I didn't need to 'look': I distinctly remember posting the links to which you didn't have an answer, and it was no trouble for me to retrieve the post in question.
What a lightweight :lol:
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 05:13 PM
I don't claim to have any answers, but I can see that a tolerant society is being swallowed up by an intolerant one.
You've called for genocide. That's the answer you're p[eddling, a Final Solution. You just haven't the balls to do it in real life. And when one of you sad cunts does actually do something, you don't even target Muslims! LMAO that is so fucking pathetic it's unreal. And then you have the gall to go on about how Islam is not tolerant. What amazing hypocrisy!
Watchdog
11-29-2011, 05:13 PM
To be honest ColdNuts, you really think we give a shit what you have to say? Moslims are very tolerant humans, you on the other hand is not. im getting sick of your moaning, you need to get laid and asap, and prolly even get your ehad checkt.
Did you knwo that people like you radicalizes moslims, speacialy the weak ones what only wants to live in peace, when i was in afgahnistan, i didnt see a single terrorist i only saw Freedom Fighters, if your an American you know what a freedom fighter is, you guys after all fought for your indepence as so many other nation has. GET me you little punk.
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 06:27 PM
...freedom fighters - uhmmm, isnt that an oxymoronic title?...
http://www.slightlyfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/bellytats03-300x230.jpg
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 08:00 PM
...freedom fighters - uhmmm, isnt that an oxymoronic title?...
How do you figure that out?
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 09:43 PM
To be honest ColdNuts, you really think we give a shit what you have to say? Moslims are very tolerant humans, you on the other hand is not. im getting sick of your moaning, you need to get laid and asap, and prolly even get your ehad checkt.
Did you knwo that people like you radicalizes moslims, speacialy the weak ones what only wants to live in peace, when i was in afgahnistan, i didnt see a single terrorist i only saw Freedom Fighters, if your an American you know what a freedom fighter is, you guys after all fought for your indepence as so many other nation has. GET me you little punk.
I like how you threw the human in, having your doubts. I am trying figure out what planet Finland is on.
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 09:46 PM
]You've called for genocide[/COLOR]. That's the answer you're p[eddling, a Final Solution. You just haven't the balls to do it in real life. And when one of you sad cunts does actually do something, you don't even target Muslims! LMAO that is so fucking pathetic it's unreal. And then you have the gall to go on about how Islam is not tolerant. What amazing hypocrisy!
I said it was something they would understand. Can't I make suggestions? I am sure it has crossed the minds of some very powerful men.
I said it was something they would understand. Can't I make suggestions? I am sure it has crossed the minds of some very powerful men.
its certainly crossed the minds of popes and christian presidents.
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 09:47 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0906/circus-girl-or-was-it-that-barker-gezz-i-am-just-a-slut-demotivational-poster-1245175089.jpg
13erk0witz
11-29-2011, 09:51 PM
I like how you threw the human in, having your doubts. I am trying figure out what planet Finland is on.
I like how you are so easily divided by divide n conquer issues. You can find fault in others with 0 fact and feed on the spin material you are fed through the boob tube or whatever and paint the problems you are unable to identify with the image they feed directly into your eyes with digital led lights synchronized to the tune the pied piper. You should question more idiot.
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 09:52 PM
Owned.
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 09:52 PM
its certainly crossed the minds of popes and christian presidents.
And with good reason. Starting with Jefferson, and john Q Adams they had Islam figured out a long time ago. They saw it for what it was long before the digital age. Think about that. The world at that time had no qualms in stating its concerns.
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 09:58 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1111/smooth-operator-only-hurt-the-ones-you-love-demotivational-posters-1322200508.jpg
13erk0witz
11-29-2011, 10:01 PM
And with good reason. Starting with Jefferson, and john Q Adams they had Islam figured out a long time ago. They saw it for what it was long before the digital age. Think about that. The world at that time had no qualms in stating its concerns.
Please, give us the history on what you just said so that I may rape you in the ass you moron.
And with good reason. Starting with Jefferson, and john Q Adams they had Islam figured out a long time ago. They saw it for what it was long before the digital age. Think about that. The world at that time had no qualms in stating its concerns.
so what you are saying is that it's ok for christianity to want the genocide of differing religious persuasions but it's wrong that extremist Islamic fundies want the same thing.
ok, gotcha.
if you look down now you will see that your hypocrisy slip is showing. ;)
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 10:02 PM
I like how you are so easily divided by divide n conquer issues. You can find fault in others with 0 fact and feed on the spin material you are fed through the boob tube or whatever and paint the problems you are unable to identify with the image they feed directly into your eyes with digital led lights synchronized to the tune the pied piper. You should question more idiot.
I should? I am the one that is informed. Most replies just contain names or wisecracks, by a bunch of people who think they run things here. Well you don't. Deal with it, and learn some more about Islam.
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1111/smooth-operator-only-hurt-the-ones-you-love-demotivational-posters-1322200508.jpg
too slippery.....a womens silky panties are much better, just a bit of friction but still nice and smooth. :)
Cogburn
11-29-2011, 10:03 PM
I should?
That's a start.
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 10:05 PM
That's a start.
You jumped the gun there, oh mightier questioner. You guys are just full of shit.
You guys are just full of shit.
maybe you do belong here after all. :)
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 10:18 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1111/confessions-confession-sandusky-priest-gay-boys-demotivational-posters-1322405936.jpg
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 10:19 PM
I am the one that is informed.
Lmfao.... holy shit, if you weren't such a twathead I'd rep you for making me laugh so hard.
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 10:20 PM
You guys are just full of shit.
You wanted our attention, now you've got it. We didn't make any guarantees that it would be the attention you actually wanted....
13erk0witz
11-29-2011, 10:35 PM
I should? I am the one that is informed. Most replies just contain names or wisecracks, by a bunch of people who think they run things here. Well you don't. Deal with it, and learn some more about Islam.
So you are the expert and I should ask you?
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 10:38 PM
...ask his asshole - maybe what comes out of there would be honest...
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 10:38 PM
You wanted our attention, now you've got it. We didn't make any guarantees that it would be the attention you actually wanted....
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0808/emo-was-never-missing-demotivational-poster-1220092078.jpg
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 10:39 PM
LOL
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 10:42 PM
Lmao.... did I piss you off, Coldnuts?
century
11-29-2011, 10:43 PM
HEh..great song:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C14BlwGAR-E&feature=related
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 10:46 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0909/and-god-said-unto-man-eggo-waffles-god-religion-adam-paintin-demotivational-poster-1254353611.jpg
coldjoint
11-29-2011, 10:48 PM
Lmfao.... holy shit, if you weren't such a twathead I'd rep you for making me laugh so hard.
And you are? Nonsense.
those dudes had some tiny fucking dicks back then!
century
11-29-2011, 10:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtkHg-GLv2c&feature=related
those dudes had some tiny fucking dicks back then!
muslims probably stole them.
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 10:49 PM
And you are?
Trolling you. How many times?
13erk0witz
11-29-2011, 10:49 PM
And you are? Nonsense.
Bring up something we can debate for the love of Alah.
WynHawks
11-29-2011, 10:51 PM
...lmao @ tiny dicks...
Snow Crash
11-29-2011, 10:51 PM
Coldnuts' jihad against jihad doesn't seem to be going too well.
Poor Coldnuts.
Bwaaaaahahahahaha!