Secession, What's Your View?

[Iori Komei]

Ok, after reading some (more stuff about Taiwan I figured I'd bring the topic up.

Secession, the act of splitting a single political unit/country into two (or more if it's in tandem) separate independent political entities/countries, is one of the more controversial global issues with many people and countries taking varied positions throughout the spectrum.


So here's the question, do you support secession or not and why?

[Iori Komei]

I vote sometimes.

While I generally support secessionist movements simply because it is the people's right to do so, I do not universally support all movements.

I support secession when the state created is free and democratic (60/40 importance), regardless of if the state it is seceding from is or not.


To give you an idea, I support Kosovo's secession from Serbia, the Pan-Green coalitions calls for official Taiwanese independence (as in becoming the Republic of Taiwan).

I take a more neutral view with Palestine since I frankly don't trust Islam.
I would support it more if the new state guaranteed that it would be free and Democratic and forbid Sharia from being used and commit to being a Secular country.

I do not support groups like the League of the South which would strip freedoms from the people and would try to impose laws based on the conservative idea of the Bible.

[JiveTurkey]

If you are talking in terms of the United States, of course I support it.


It's a states' right to secede from the union if it sees fit.


Unfortunately, the imperialists like Lincoln didn't find it too convenient.



Jasn

[JiveTurkey]

"free" and "democratic" are words that are used so damned often and in so many situations that they no longer have any meaning.


Isn't saying that a "state" has the right to secede IF they obey certain rules kind of ummmm anti free?


All nations on Earth need to start practicing isolationism as far as politics and propaganda go.

Or, in other words, what is right for China isn't necessarily right for Peru.

Jasn

[Iori Komei]

Not really, states, when it comes down to it the state exists to protect people's Freedoms and to provide for the common good, so state's that don't intend to do this try to they should'nt be allowed to since it defeats the whole point.

On a separate note I suppose it's ironic that while I support secession I also support a global federal government.

[JiveTurkey]

On a separate note I suppose it's ironic that while I support secession I also support a global federal government.


Ooohhh globalism, fun for the whole family.


Nothing like a planet full of peasants bowing to the will of the global monarchy.


J

[Iori Komei]

Ooohhh globalism, fun for the whole family.


Nothing like a planet full of peasants bowing to the will of the global monarchy.


Democratic globalism (I think there's another name apart from that) is good, however corporate globalism, not so much.

Anyways I would like to see a global government like what the EU is currently, maybe a little more integrated.

[JiveTurkey]

Ooohhh globalism, fun for the whole family.


Nothing like a planet full of peasants bowing to the will of the global monarchy.


Democratic globalism (I think there's another name apart from that) is good, however corporate globalism, not so much.

Anyways I would like to see a global government like what the EU is currently, maybe a little more integrated.


Egads!!!

Talk about corruption and tyranny waiting to happen.



Jasn

[Iori Komei]

Egads!!!

Talk about corruption and tyranny waiting to happen.


I don't mean an exact copy, but like the power structure and integration.

[Yo Mama]

I'm all for California seceeding. Let's see the feds do without our tax base.

[mojo]

Idealogically i dont have a problem with states or territory's seceding but it seems to generally only occur when country's are strife torn ie civil war or someother type of political upheaval.[/i]
whether that is conducive to the secession of a state or territory occuring successfully im not sure.
it would be interesting to know a percentage of secessions that have ultimately had a successful outcome for both the state/territory that secedes and the country that they have broken away from.
i'm thinking it would be fairly low.

i also like the "idea" of a world government but i dont think we as a species are mature enough to transition to one as yet.
perhaps in another couple of hundred years?

[Iori Komei]

it would be interesting to know a percentage of secessions that have ultimately had a successful outcome for both the state/territory that secedes and the country that they have broken away from.
i'm thinking it would be fairly low.


Well, if you think about it most Secessionist movements have come into existence during the twentieth century, so there have'nt historically been a large amount, though the United States would be the best example historically.

I suppose to you could consider Africa, where half the countries peacefully seceded form their respective colonial powers, though admittedly that was during the mid twentieth century when public support in the colonial countries and the colony countries was in favour of it.

The countries that made up the Soviet Union technically seceded as did the countries that made up Yugoslavia.




i also like the "idea" of a world government but i dont think we as a species are mature enough to transition to one as yet.
perhaps in another couple of hundred years?

Honestly I expect one will form sometime between 2095 and 2160.

[Boondock]

i support it and i actually would like to see it happen. this country is so fucked.....i'm tired of the bullshit with the federali's and such.

if i had my way, my wife and i would be on a plane to zurich(sp) and we would not be looking back

[Iori Komei]

if i had my way, my wife and i would be on a plane to zurich(sp) and we would not be looking back

I'd suggest Holland, since Switzerland is becoming very, very isolationist and anti-foreigner.

[Boondock]

if i had my way, my wife and i would be on a plane to zurich(sp) and we would not be looking back

I'd suggest Holland, since Switzerland is becoming very, very isolationist and anti-foreigner.

it's not gonna happen but i have wanted for a very long time to move over that way.....their laws fit more with how i feel.
the US is just fucked from all angles and i am pretty tired of it.

[Occam]

I'm all for California seceeding. Let's see the feds do without our tax base.

I'm with you, GN. I'm sick and tired of having a Wisconsin vote count for 3.7 Calif. votes. If we included Oregon and Washington, imagine the fees we could collect to let the rest of the country ship in and out of our ports.

Occam

[Iori Komei]

If we included Oregon and Washington, imagine the fees we could collect to let the rest of the country ship in and out of our ports.


We're taking BC and being our own country thank-you very much..
But it would be interesting, since the West coast does hold such a massive chunk of the economy, I mean Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks and Amazon.com have got to be pretty big sections, and those are all Washington based companies.

[Martian Exile]

Iori, there is absolutely nothing more evil than a central government, and a global government leaves us with no place to run to get away from it. The EU is just getting started in the business of regulating every nuance of life in the member states. Take for example the preparation of Italian specialty meats. The EU forced the Italian people to over cook traditional meats and ruin the flavor. The Italian people rebelled, and the UE backed off, but refused to allow Italy to export the meats to other UE nations. Before EU the British people could eat traditional Italian meats, now the can not. Is that freedom?

For centuries Sweden produced this wonderful stuff called Stockholm tar. It is used in soap for control of skin problems, preserving hemp, making wooden ships smell nice, and other wise making a mariner happy. England imported tons of the stuff until the EU forbad the export from Sweden to the member states. Why? Because ignorant morons who know nothing of chemistry mistook the stuff for creosote. Yet for over a thousand years sailors have put it in their hair. Doctors prescribe the stuff for the control of psoriasis.

As a southern planter with a 216 year old antebellum farm, I am all for the rise of the confederacy and the expulsion of all federal despots from the various states. Nothing would make me happier than to se 80% of all federal employees standing in a soup line.

Before I became an immigrant to the south, I lived in the remote deserts of the Great Basin. City slickers have no idea just how much the feds control every aspect of life in the desert. I could rant for hours, but sum it up thus, there is positively no depth of evil or depravity the federal government is capable of stooping to. The fed is a shining example of the evils of a global central government and secession (and arms) is the only effective check of despotism.

[theeindiee]

The problem with secession is that every side is so cross polinated with agents and double agents, that everyone pretty much knows what everyone is doing now.... so before the secession was ever to become seceded, I think it would pretty much be silenced by covert operations... just like the last 50 years of social unrest has taught us. Things have already been taken care of before you even think of them. It would be hard not to think that any major secession wasn't just more of the ole' sides playing sides trick made to fool everyone into thinking they are on this side or that, or like they are fighting for some good cause, when really they are only fighting each other, and the puppetmasters just sit from afar and nod their heads in approval because they own the war machine, and it is paying them WELL. As long as there's an excuse to funnel power and money back into their hands, they'll exploit any cause for their own benefit, it seems.

[Kacen]

If I was president(Dictator) of the United States (N.I.A.), I would keep any states from seceding and go Abraham Lincoln on them.

Lakota nation? Well fuck you we'll finish the genocide we started 100 years ago.

California? San Francisco will have radiation in addition to the pollution.

League of the South? I'll drop white phosphorous on your Bible thumping asses. And I'll burn Atlanta to the ground. Again. All of it. Just for kicks.

Now in regards to other countries...well, fuck Palestine and I support the Israelis against them, genocide, whatever.

Kosovo? A country of terrorists, and us supporting them made practically every Slavic country in the world hate us, and led to more Zionist conspiracies and shit that we just do not need. The Kosovo terrorists fucking butchered the innocent Serbians and took their organs. In addition if the Shiptar fucks wanted to not be part of Serbia they should have just left and went to Albania.

As a side note, the flag of Kosovo looks rather retarded and...forced, so to speak. Seriously the colors of the European Union, stars, and a picture of the country itself? Fucking retarded. Makes it look like it has no culture or historical background, and like it was just thought up within a days time and created in a...oh wait.

Well, in general, any secession that forms a theocracy I will not support. And a theocracy seceding from a theocracy...well...I really wouldn't be biased ether way.

A secular government seceding from a theocracy? I'll support it for the most part, though I can't guarantee there wouldn't be other little issues that would conflict with me.