Harvard Sets Women-Only Hours for Gym, Complying With Muslim [Archive] - AmeriKan Konspiracy - Free Speech | Conspiracy | Forums | Chat | Blogs

Boondock

03-06-2008, 07:10 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334390,00.html

In response to a request by female Muslim students, Harvard University has created women-only workout hours at one of its campus gyms. The decision has angered some students at the Ivy League university.

Since Jan. 28, the Quadrangle Recreational Athletic Center has been open only to women from 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. on Mondays.

The change was prompted by a request from the Harvard College Women's Center, which was approached by six female Muslim students, said Robert Mitchell, communications director of Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences.

"It was done for religious purposes, but it's not closed to other women who may want to participate," he said.

Ola Aljawhary, a student and a member of the Harvard Islamic Society, said the women-only gym is needed.
----------------

what
the
fuck
mang???

Boondock

03-06-2008, 07:19 AM

let me be clear and say i find nothing wrong with womens only gyms....gyms like 'curves' are gaining popularity as a womens only gym....cool.

this is different though. they are closing off the gym to male students for the religious 'pick a word' of other female students and THAT is not right...

why do people keep playing ball with this type of shit.?
how hard would it have been to tell them muslim girls to fuck off. if they want girls only then join curves......feel me?

Boondock

03-06-2008, 07:36 AM

come on peeps. i want to talk about this one....

i suppose it is not a HUGE deal cause they are only asking for 6 hours per week and there are other facilities there but still. it's a coed school. i think that the gym should be available to all students, male and female during the hours they are open.

every student that paid tuition there deserves to workout there when they want to....imo of course.

curious to see what you all think

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 07:46 AM

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 07:47 AM

Here's the thread: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread338026/pg1

There were of course people who only saw the negative and tried to make this another point of contention :roll:

Boondock

03-06-2008, 07:56 AM

There was a discussion about this on the other site. Most people agree that it's fine (especially the women). Reasons cited: men like to oggle women while they're working out. This move was welcomed by the women, who were uncomfortable with men eyeing them and making lewd gestures.

i can see being uncomfy but i do not really like conforming cause of religion and thats what this is...thats why they approached the board or whatever it's called.

believe it or not, a lot of men are uncomfy working out in front of ladies....

i just don't like seeing things like this come down the pipe cause of a religious issue

Tetsujin

03-06-2008, 07:57 AM

You know, 6 hours a week is nothing. Like the dirty seal said this gives women a chance to go and work out with out being undressed by my eyes... :twisted:

Boondock

03-06-2008, 07:59 AM

You know, 6 hours a week is nothing. Like the dirty seal said this gives women a chance to go and work out with out being undressed by my eyes... :twisted:

6 hours a week is nothing..i got that much but it is a public school. it is coed. it is not a religious school...i just don't get it is all.

Boondock

03-06-2008, 08:03 AM

yeah....been thinking about this since i posted it......i am only perturbed cause they did it for religious reasons....

that said, maybe harvord should make 2 of their 3 gyms same sex only...

one for female...one for male...one for coed...

that way everyone is happy.

i just HATE seeing things cave under religion....hate it

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 09:29 AM

Your point is? It was a request, not a demand.

Boondock

03-06-2008, 09:32 AM

Your point is? It was a request, not a demand.

my point is i think the request should have been denied. my point is with three gyms they could have a male only, female only, and co ed...i thought i already made those points though....

the only reason i have a problem with it is cause it was done for religious purposes....

thats all.

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 09:48 AM

my point is with three gyms they could have a male only, female only, and co ed...i thought i already made those points though....

Oh. Well that's just brilliant. You know as well as I do that that solution would lead to EVEN MORE bitching. Even now with just 6 hours set aside people are all in an uproar.

Whatever man. This was only a trial run. Maybe you'll get your wish if it works out.

Boondock

03-06-2008, 09:56 AM

why are you getting all pissy about it? i'm not bashing anyone. i'm not talking shit. i am just saying i think it is BS to make this move for religious reasons.....

totally different if they did it cause the ladies don't like to workout in front of the guys....that is not why they made this move though....

like i said, it's just the religious part that bothers me

Boondock

03-06-2008, 09:58 AM

and for the record, i am not one who is in an 'uproar' about it...just trying to get my head around their logic....i mean 6 students out of how many thousand(s) that go there made this request and it was done...fine...

if religion was not part of the issue...if the only reason this request was being asked was due to the girls not wanting to work out in front of the guys, do you think it would still have been granted?

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 10:38 AM

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 10:39 AM

Boondock

03-06-2008, 10:43 AM

why are you getting all pissy about it? i'm not bashing anyone. i'm not talking shit. i am just saying i think it is BS to make this move for religious reasons.....

Because I'm AmKon's Resident Bitch :twisted:

Nah, seriously, the reason is I don't understand why people have it so tough on religion when it doesn't bother or inconvenience them. I am okay if it were something that affected a whole lot of people negatively, like say, teaching creationism in school in place of evolution. That's wrong. But in this case, there's no real problem. Seriously how much of an inconvenience 2 hours a day, 3 times a week can cause?

how often do we discuss things that does not bother or effect us directly....i am pretty biased against religions...that is no secret.
also the 6 hours is not that big of a deal it just kind of frosts me when that religion card can get played....i mean i am sure last semester there were girls that did not like getting eyed by all the horny college guys....
bring out that religion card and shit starts to move....

i unno. maybe i am caring about it too much. at 5 am when i was reading about it i was pretty into the story. now, not so much.

i do have to say i feel for the ladies though...not just the ones there but at all these workout facilities....i mean they get a nice mean sweat going on and are running so their tittays are bouncing around and you have a room full of dudes just scoping you out....

thats why places like curves are so successful. women only and i think that is a good thing...they're expensive as shit though but they are all over the place round here

Boondock

03-06-2008, 10:45 AM

if religion was not part of the issue...if the only reason this request was being asked was due to the girls not wanting to work out in front of the guys, do you think it would still have been granted?

Sure, why not? Feminist issues are just as strong an influence. People would likely be making a fuss about it as well.

i don't know....i was thinking that it wouldn't have come to the 6 hour womens only deal if religion didn't come in to play....no way to know though.

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 10:54 AM

it just kind of frosts me when that religion card can get played....

Believe me, I dislike it as you do, when religion is used like that. As you know, it's election time again in me country. In the east coast, they're really (ab)using it.

Here, have a read:

PAS asks supporters to fast for victory (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/3/6/nation/20552163&sec=nation)KOTA BARU: PAS is calling on its members and supporters in Kelantan to fast (puasa sunat) today to seek divine help to win the elections.

PAS strategist Datuk Wan Ab Rahim Wan Abdullah said 13% of the 751,000 registered voters in Kelantan, about 97,000 people, are expected to show their solidarity through fasting.

He said the message to fast was spread through its nightly ceramah all over the state, through SMS and by word of mouth.

“We want to tell ‘Somebody Up There’ (Allah) that we need God’s help for the elections,” he said yesterday in an interview.

PAS is also asking members living in the 45 state constituencies to perform sembahyang hajat (prayers) at mosques and suraus here after the isyak (night) prayers.

The climax will be a mammoth sembahyang hajat gathering at 4am on Friday morning, the eve of polls, at Stadium Sultan Muhammad Ke-IV.

Some 20,000 people are expected to attend the gathering. The prayers will be led by PAS spiritual adviser and Kelantan Mentri Besar Datuk Nik Aziz Nik Mat.

PAS has ruled Kelantan for 18 years.

In 2004, it almost lost to Barisan Nasional in a close race with PAS finally wresting victory with just a two- seat majority. This was reduced to one seat in 2005 when the Barisan took the Pengkalan Pasir seat in a by-election.

This election is expected to be just as intense.

Wan Ab Rahim believes Barisan is going to have “a big surprise from up there.”

He also said that all PAS candidates had taken oaths of loyalty, in the name of Allah, that they would not jump parties if they won, and if they did, they would resign.

Fucking despicable :evil:

Boondock

03-06-2008, 10:58 AM

expected to show their solidarity through fasting.

????^^^^

where are you at? do you live in india?
serious question

Yo Mama

03-06-2008, 11:06 AM

Nah, seriously, the reason is I don't understand why people have it so tough on religion when it doesn't bother or inconvenience them.

Slippery slope, that's why. It's six hours in the gym now, but next it could be segregated classrooms.

This isn't an islamic country. If the muslim ladies don't want to work out in a co ed gym they shouldn't be going to school in a coed country, IMO.

I'm sick to death of everyone bending over backwards to make things comfy for the muslims. They are HERE. Let them assimilate to US, not the other way around.

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 11:12 AM

Malaysia. Most of the country is okay. It's the two east coast states of Kelantan and Terengganu that are like that. Imagine the Bible Belt, but think of it along the lines of the Quran Belt.

Backwards, dogmatic and narrow-minded folk. You know what's the latest stupid shit I heard from there? So this bunch of folk with their all or nothing mentality are opposed to anything that has to do with western culture (and for some reason that includes us folk on the west coast... go figure). One of those things is plastic surgery (nevermind the ones done for vanity, I'm talking about the ones for actual health reasons). So what new slander that makes use of religion do they come up with? They say that botox uses pig enzymes.

Seriously what the fuck? Most of those backasswards people aren't gonna do their research and know that it stands for botulism toxin, an enzyme that comes from bacteria (found in the soil)...

That kind of shit I find unacceptable.

Boondock

03-06-2008, 11:13 AM

thats why i'm frosted....i take issue with things like this cause of the religion...that said if it were just 6 females saying they did not want to workout in front of all the guys, i don't think anything would have been done. course there is no way for me to know that but thats just what i think.

it's yet another story of muslims not being able to ascimilate....all the other girls apparently managed to get their workout in just fine....

like i said, yeah, guys look and maybe the gals don't but guys are just as 'scared' to be eyeballed when working out...for different reasons but still.

i just thought that a coed campus was just that. a coed campus....

i've also a moran and never been to college so i don't know how it works

Boondock

03-06-2008, 11:15 AM

Imagine the Bible Belt, but think of it along the lines of the Quran Belt.

.

i don't think i could handle that....i didn't know you were in malaysia...you native to there or what?

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 11:18 AM

Slippery slope, that's why.

You can apply that reasoning to anything, but you know as well as I do it's not the real reason why.

i didn't know you were in malaysia...you native to there or what?

Yes. Grew up here.

Yo Mama

03-06-2008, 11:34 AM

That's indeed why I object to it. Slippery slope.

Hell, the muslims want to be able to practice Sharia law in Canada during divorce!!!

In the West, we're so programmed to be tolerant (read feel guilty) about islam, it's not even funny. Ever since 9/11 it's been getting worse. People are afraid to tell islamics to just fucking deal with the fact that not everyone is a muslim and that they are going to have to get along with everyone else, not the other way around.

BTW, BK, I know you're a theist, but which flavor, if you don't mind my asking?

I ask, not to diss you, but just to know. If more theists were like you -- understanding science and being able to discuss this stuff in a rational manner -- I might not have as much issue with them. :wink:

Boondock

03-06-2008, 11:44 AM

In the West, we're so programmed to be tolerant (read feel guilty) about islam, it's not even funny. Ever since 9/11 it's been getting worse. People are afraid to tell islamics to just fucking deal with the fact that not everyone is a muslim and that they are going to have to get along with everyone else, not the other way around.

i wonder also how much of them granting them this request was due to the fact that they're muslims and the shit would/could hit the fan if they didn't comply...you know, it's all about compliance...

sure the girls asked but was it really a request or more of a statement...like 'we want this because muslim etc etc'...

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 12:04 PM

In the West, we're so programmed to be tolerant (read feel guilty) about islam, it's not even funny.

Tolerance and guilt are not the same. Tolerance is a give and take process which is vital for functioning society. More so if the society is comprised of people from a variety of backgrounds.

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 12:05 PM

sure the girls asked but was it really a request or more of a statement...like 'we want this because muslim etc etc'...

Objection! Speculative. :twisted:

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 12:21 PM

One more thing: assimilation cannot be forced and it cannot be done overnight. It's a gradual process.

What happens when you force assimilation. Newton's third law applies.

Case in point: Indonesia. You know how messed up the country is. One of the reasons is the forced assimilation to create a unique Indonesian identity. Another case: South Thailand. Contrary to what is often parroted in the media, it's not because of religion. It's about culture, and how the Thai central authority did not allow or make accommodations for the Malays in the south to practice their own centuries old culture and language.

In my country all three major ethnic groups are allowed to practice their culture, beliefs and to celebrate their holidays. Everyone has had to give and take. Was there any opposition? You bet. In the beginning it was fierce, especially when it was forced upon. Riots broke out and the biggest event that occurred in the aftermath of the May 13th riots was the secession of Singapore from the Federation. We learned our lesson after that and tried a softer approach.

Yo Mama

03-06-2008, 02:23 PM

It would be one thing if these women had been here all along and were being forced into something to go along with newcomers, but they have come here and are expecting our society to make allowances for them.

Sorry. If someone moves to another country, even just to attend school, then they need to deal with that country on the country's terms, not expect the entire nation to change to suit them. That's selfish and arrogant.

If these ladies didn't want to go to a school where they'd have to share space with males, then they should have gone to an all female college. They're in a coed college that has been fine all these years without segregating the men from the women during workouts.

If they don't like it, too bad. Either join an all female gym, go to an all female school, or don't work out. Or, like everyone else in a society that is supposedly free, they can suck up what they don't like and deal with it rather than ask for special privilege.

But to expect the entire student body to change their ways to suit them? And people call Americans arrogant. :roll:

Boondock

03-06-2008, 02:28 PM

One more thing: assimilation cannot be forced and it cannot be done overnight. It's a gradual process.

.

it also should not be glossed over...i know i am not saying they should be assimilated over night but these are grown up college ladies....and here again we see 'people' having to change things around to suit 'them'...

why is that?

it's been fine for however long....3 full gyms..coed...

and again....imo it would be different if the womens student body went in front of th eboard with their case of not wanting to workout in front of the guys cause of the glances and stares they get. that was not the case here though.
six women out of however many go there brought it up on religious grounds....it's just a nice little perk that other women can use it too and not get stared at....

if they were christian would this have happened? atheist?
we'll never know....

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 03:23 PM

It would be one thing if these women had been here all along and were being forced into something to go along with newcomers, but they have come here and are expecting our society to make allowances for them.

Sorry. If someone moves to another country, even just to attend school, then they need to deal with that country on the country's terms, not expect the entire nation to change to suit them. That's selfish and arrogant.

You don't know that. Nobody here does. And yet you are judging.

it also should not be glossed over...i know i am not saying they should be assimilated over night but these are grown up college ladies....and here again we see 'people' having to change things around to suit 'them'...

Change is inevitable, especially in the world we live in today. Living with other humans require a lot of give and take. If there were no different races or religions, they'd be different sexes. Still have to give and take.

You know what? People are making a mountain out of a mole hill over this. I see the programming has worked. Some small non-issue could generate so much hostility. It's not like any body's rights are being trampled here...

I'm done. You all can continue getting pissed-off over nothing.

Boondock

03-06-2008, 03:31 PM

Change is inevitable, especially in the world we live in today. Living with other humans require a lot of give and take. .

yeah, you're right...it is inevitable...as in they are going to a coed school with coed gyms...they might need to 'change' the way they look at their working out program.....seeing as it is a coed school and the gyms are there for all to use...

why does the change have to be the change that accompany's them? why don't they change?

and who's getting pissed off? if anyone is getting uptight about this, i think it's you.

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 03:39 PM

I didn't start the thread with the words

what
the
fuck
mang?

Boondock

03-06-2008, 03:41 PM

I didn't start the thread with the words

what
the
fuck
mang?

come on koma.....you should know me by now....i'm not pissed off..just trying to get a god discussion going...when i am pissed i usually say so.....

i just wanted to talk about it....

either way, it is what it is....

my wife just got home and we are gonna go to the petstore to get my doggy a bone...

don't be pissed koma....i'm not.

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 04:03 PM

I'm not pissed. Disappointed a bit (that I failed to clear misconceptions an biases), but also amused. As you know I studied psychology. My primary interest is social psychology. In reading the multiple news articles out there on this subject, and reading the various threads and talkbacks on the matter, I see a confirmation of the social identity theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_identity_theory).

One of the more interesting aspect of it is ingroups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingroup) and their relationships to outgroups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outgroup_%28sociology%29). In the thread at the other site, there were people who displayed group-serving bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group-serving_bias) when attributing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribution_theory) behaviour of their own group's reaction to the outgroup (in this case Muslims). In this thread, the General and yourself committed outgroup homogeneity bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outgroup_homogeneity_bias).

Not criticizing here; everyone has biases. It arises from built in heuristics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristics#Psychology) people have. Makes life easier to lead, but often gets in the way of objectivity in cognition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases).

JiveTurkey

03-06-2008, 04:22 PM

Well, fuck.

I suppose the next time I go to a predominantly Muslim country I will request (demand?) that all of the women walk around half naked and whorish looking like they do in the states.

And take the fucking beekeeper hats off goddamnit!

jasn

Yo Mama

03-06-2008, 04:28 PM

You see it your way, BK, and I'll see it mine.

Like it or not, those women ARE asking for special privileges that nobody else is asking for, which IMO is arrogant.

In group, out group, who the hell cares? The point is that THEY are requiring everyone else to change to suit THEM. And I find that wrong.

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 04:38 PM

Also see a lot of assumptions made... but hey, whatever. And gratuitous re-framing.

Boondock

03-06-2008, 05:06 PM

can you explain all this in group/out group stuff to me...seriously..
i don't really understand....

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 05:16 PM

Which part don't you get? I've provided the links in that post.

Boondock

03-06-2008, 05:24 PM

Which part don't you get? I've provided the links in that post.

i didn't see the links....i'll go back and scope it out

Boondock

03-06-2008, 05:28 PM

yeah, i still don't understand it.

thanks though..

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 05:29 PM

yeah, i still don't understand it.

Tell me which part of those you don't understand and I'll try my best to explain it with different words.

Boondock

03-06-2008, 05:31 PM

In this thread, the General and yourself committed outgroup homogeneity bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outgroup_homogeneity_bias).

.

i don't get it.....

According to the outgroup homogeneity bias, individuals see members of their own group as being relatively more varied than members of other groups.

^^^^^from the link....what does that have to do with what we are talking about...what is my 'group'

Bitchkoma

03-06-2008, 05:53 PM

"According to the outgroup homogeneity bias, individuals see members of their own group as being relatively more varied than members of other groups. "

This implies that the members of an outgroup are all the same or have a similar mentality/attitude... anything you can attribute to an individual. Same. Homogeneous.

I'm kind of stressing more on the outgroup here. So far in this thread nobody has been justifying stuff within their ingroups (but there's a lot of that shit going on at the other site), so it's not really pertinent.

Anyway, you had an outgroup homogeneity bias moment with this quote:

"it's yet another story of muslims not being able to ascimilate....all the other girls apparently managed to get their workout in just fine.... "

And thereafter whenever you referred to muslims as though they are one monolithic bloc (when it's really probably just these uptight girls). It's a common bias. Again, not criticising, just trying to inform so we can try to avoid it next time.

In fairness, I succumbed to the same bias when I talked about people from the east coast of my country.

Like I said, we all have our biases. It's part of the heuristics programming (mental shortcuts) we are born with. Usually makes things easier (at the expense of objectivity)